GTA TDE - The VGD Ultimate Fixes and Improvements Comparison Thread

[BAZO277]

Yeah CJ used to always have this weird inquisitive looking expression on his face ingame before(Like this a bit). Now he looks a lot more neutral so it's interesting to see the little fixes they've done here and there like that.

[mathhead]

1 hour ago, BAZO277 said:

Yeah CJ used to always have this weird inquisitive looking expression on his face ingame before(Like this a bit). Now he looks a lot more neutral so it's interesting to see the little fixes they've done here and there like that.

Lol the emoji made me chuckle, it was exactly like that. They also slightly improved AI upscaled default pants of CJ. But it still looks AI upscaled 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

                 On 11/15/2024 at 5:55 AM, zanesix said:  Yet they used the Xbox models for Vice City!!!! What the hell happened??? Personally this is the regression that shocks me the most throughout all of DE. Even the MOBILE version of 3 used the Xbox vehicles, and that was the same developer! How could they forget them here, yet suddenly remember them again for the next game?   GTA 3 on Xbox got a shocking amount of changes, its almost a complete overhaul of the game. New animation system, better textures, improved vegatation, more detailed models... Hell, even entire areas were overhauled: Xbox:     PS2:     ... And DE used exactly none of it.   It's tragic and makes no sense. It's not like they were going for the PS2 atmosphere. The AI upscaling is bad enough, but they could've atleast given it a chance by feeding it with the best possible assets that already existed. The community had also already put in a lot of effort digging out the source images, they could have also used those and we'd have had no idea.      Edit: Mobile broke the quote formatting, will fix later.  

Edited November 18, 2024 by MeatSafeMurderer

[BS_BlackScout]

33 + 38 of the first video. Quite nice fixes!

Not a fan of some of his clickbait but there's a lot of work when it comes to doing these comparisons.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by BS_BlackScout
fixed embed

[nomoris]

Sorry if I didn't understand correctly, but apparently GTA DE is a port of the mobile version. With this update, did they add any mechanics that weren't in the mobile port or is the "soul" of the game still that of the 2013 version?

[Mintal]

Still the same "mobile soul" - this is what prevents me from getting the DE on Black Friday.

[SquoniX]

Just Business (they made the game look worse IMO):

 

Before the patch:

 

After the patch:

Edited November 19, 2024 by SquoniX

[Knight1069]

2 hours ago, SquoniX said:

Just Business (they made the game look worse IMO):

 

Before:

 

After:

I think they focused so much on making the game look like the PS2 version that they ended up overdoing it, lol. Just looking at these photos you can see that they removed the volumetric clouds and some trees.

Edited November 18, 2024 by Knight1069

[SquoniX]

Just now, Knight1069 said:

I think they focused so much on making the game look like the PS2 version that they ended up overdoing it, lol. Just looking at these photos you can see that they removed the volumetric clouds and some trees.

Even the grass just behind CJ.

 

People say it looks like the PS 2 version now, that is NOT a compliment.

[zanesix]

at this point they should just start over from scratch and ACTUALLY base it off the PS2 version. Would do a lot of favors.

[suicidehummer]

2 hours ago, Knight1069 said:

I think they focused so much on making the game look like the PS2 version that they ended up overdoing it, lol. Just looking at these photos you can see that they removed the volumetric clouds and some trees.

 

Hang on, missing trees? How does changing the lighting setting do that? Is the bottom picture not from the Switch version or something?

[jdfsociety]

1 hour ago, suicidehummer said:

 

Hang on, missing trees? How does changing the lighting setting do that? Is the bottom picture not from the Switch version or something?

Classic Lighting is really more of an overall 'classic look' setting as far as I can tell as it reintroduces the distance fog the originals had. Watch comparison videos and you'll see the difference. 

[Knight1069]

11 hours ago, suicidehummer said:

 

Hang on, missing trees? How does changing the lighting setting do that? Is the bottom picture not from the Switch version or something?

No, it's not the switch version. The switch version doesn't have parallax (you can see parallax on the door of the big smoke house). And it's not the classic lighting that removes trees, VGD removed them manually.

[DUNK512]

14 hours ago, Knight1069 said:

I think they focused so much on making the game look like the PS2 version that they ended up overdoing it, lol. Just looking at these photos you can see that they removed the volumetric clouds and some trees.

This garbage clouds shouldn’t have been there to begin with, they have terrible aliasing the moment they’re occulded by anything, you can literally see the wires going crazy in the screenshot lol.
 

 

 

14 hours ago, zanesix said:

at this point they should just start over from scratch and ACTUALLY base it off the PS2 version. Would do a lot of favors.

They’re not going to start over on anything at this point.

[videotechuk_]

Not my pics (from here), I noticed lots of environments were touched up like grass, terrain blending, etc. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by videotechuk_

[Spider-Vice]

18 hours ago, SquoniX said:

Just Business (they made the game look worse IMO):

 

Before:

 

 

After:

 

I'm sorry, are those even taken on the same build? Because I don't think so considering the video watermarks.

 

I just booted up SA DE, went to Smoke's house and flipped through the modes, there are no missing trees. The one (1) tree was removed in VGD's build in general, it's not a lighting thing as someone suggested.

 

Classic:

 

OG DE lighting:

[SquoniX]

4 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

I'm sorry, are those even taken on the same build? Because I don't think so considering the video watermarks.

 

I just booted up SA DE, went to Smoke's house and flipped through the modes, there are no missing trees. The one (1) tree was removed in VGD's build in general, it's not a lighting thing as someone suggested.

 

Classic:

 

OG DE lighting:

Those are supposed to be before and after the patch. That’s why the trees are missing. 
 

I think the confusion took place because of terms like “Before and After” and “Classic and OG DE lighting.”

 

I will edit my post to make it clear. 

Edited November 19, 2024 by SquoniX

[Mintal]

21 hours ago, Knight1069 said:

I think they focused so much on making the game look like the PS2 version that they ended up overdoing it, lol. Just looking at these photos you can see that they removed the volumetric clouds and some trees.

It looks a lot more natural now in my opinion and it gets closer to SA‘s original artistic direction. The „volumetric clouds“ and the skybox in general looked horrible in the DE, glad they changed that. 

[boomboom5950]

i also noticed that some environments look alot more barren now. I checked some of my old screenshots from release and yes, they did remove alot of trees from around the map. When i find the time ill post some comparisons but they 100% removed a decent amount of vegetation this update

[SquoniX]

4 minutes ago, Mintal said:

It looks a lot more natural now in my opinion and it gets closer to SA‘s original artistic direction. The „volumetric clouds“ and the skybox in general looked horrible in the DE, glad they changed that. 

No offence, but I think people should play the originals at this point. A remaster is always going to look different. I think the changes are too drastic, and while the classic lighting is an option, it really isn't. Volumetric clouds, fog, and sandstorm water effects are tied to that setting, too.

[Mintal]

15 minutes ago, SquoniX said:

No offence, but I think people should play the originals at this point. A remaster is always going to look different. I think the changes are too drastic, and while the classic lighting is an option, it really isn't. Volumetric clouds, fog, and sandstorm water effects are tied to that setting, too.

It can look different in a way in a remaster. I‘d be fine if the color scheme was like the OG Xbox color scheme for example. But the game desperately needed atmosphere which was completely absent in the DE because they made the foolish decision to max out the draw distance and remove nearly every visual and biome-specific effect the game had to offer. The desert should feel like a desert for example, and the new classic lighting does a good (but still not a perfect) job with that (yellow skybox, glowing sun). The game still needs more haze imo, and the draw distance needs to be lowered.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Mintal

[SquoniX]

2 minutes ago, Mintal said:

It can look different in a way in a remaster. I‘d be fine if the color scheme was like the OG Xbox color scheme for example. But the game desperately needed atmosphere which was completely absent in the DE because they made the foolish decision to max out the draw distance and remove nearly every visual and biome-specific effect the game had to offer. The desert should feel like a desert for example, and the new classic lighting does a good (but still not a perfect) job with that (yellow skybox, glowing sun). The game still needs more haze imo, and the draw distance needs to be lowered.

I agree; I feel that the new lighting when the game was released looked pretty good. It was overshadowed by the extreme draw distance, lack of fag and biome-specific effects, as you said. The new classic lighting brings these new things, but these things should have been present with non-classic lighting too. They are forcing people to use classic lighting to see fog, etc.

[Moncastler]

31 minutes ago, SquoniX said:

No offence, but I think people should play the originals at this point. A remaster is always going to look different. I think the changes are too drastic, and while the classic lighting is an option, it really isn't. Volumetric clouds, fog, and sandstorm water effects are tied to that setting, too.

I disagree, from a remaster I generally expect to play the original version in an enhanced way. Some things could look different, but if the game is presented in a way that doesn't remotely match the original vision of devs I think we have a problem. This release was also labelled "The Definitive Edition", so I would expect this to be the "definitive way" of playing these games. But I agree on the fact that the various effects exclusive to "classic lighting" should have been made available even if you preferred the GSG lighting.

 

As much as I prefer the originals, we can't just recommend everyone to go back and play them. If you're on a modern console, there's no option to play the originals. On older consoles and on PS4 / PS5 there are ways to play the original PS2 / Xbox versions, but you have to deal with awful controls, poor image quality, abysmal performance and outdated gameplay. If you're on PC you have to mod them, that's a requirement because the unmodded PC versions are easily the worst way of playing these games. It's also not a given that the original PC versions will always run on modern systems, a Windows update could easily brake compatibility for old software and if we're ever going to transition to ARM there could be unexpected problems. I think it's important to have Trilogy DE in a state that can be considered somewhat acceptable and closer to the originals from an artistic point of view.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Moncastler

[NightmanCometh96]

6 hours ago, SquoniX said:

No offence, but I think people should play the originals at this point.

I mean, that’s not an option for people who don’t game on PC and weren’t fortunate enough to get the PS2-on-PS4 versions before they were delisted. The DE is literally the only version of the Trilogy available for most players.
 

Specific effects shouldn’t be locked behind a lighting option, I agree with you on that. But at the same time, since these are the only easily-accessible versions of these games on the market for most consumers, then they should absolutely be faithful to the originals’ visual presentation. The default DE lighting fails to do that on every level. More power to anyone who thinks it looks great, but it’s literally the stock UE4 effects that are doing the heavy lifting there. No effort was made to make the games’ lighting look remotely close to the originals. Without classic lighting enabled, all three games legit share the exact same skybox and weather effects; it robs each game of its unique atmosphere and identity.

Edited November 20, 2024 by NightmanCometh96

[SquoniX]

1 minute ago, NightmanCometh96 said:

I mean, that’s not an option for people who don’t game on PC and weren’t fortunate enough to get the PS2-on-PS4 versions before they were delisted. The DE is literally the only version of the Trilogy available for most players.
 

Specific effects shouldn’t be locked behind a lighting option, I agree with you on that. But at the same time, since these are the only easily-accessible versions of these games on the market for most consumers, then they should absolutely be faithful to the originals’ visual presentation. The default DE lighting fails to do that on every level. All power to anyone who thinks it looks great, but it’s literally the stock UE4 effects that are doing the heavy lifting there. No effort was made to make the games look remotely close to the lighting of the originals; all three games legit share the same skybox and weather effects without classic lighting enabled; it robs each game of its unique atmosphere and identity.

For the originals, I will say that only the biggest fans prefer to play the originals and the ones who do prefer them already have the games purchased. I am against delisting them, too, though.

[BS_BlackScout]

I shared the SA video, now there's a Vice City video.

 

 

 

Personally I agree with him a lot. Some weather presets need tweaks to get a bit closer to the original. But overall this is a massive improvement!

Edited November 20, 2024 by BS_BlackScout

[videotechuk_]

Really hope Rockstar are keeping eyes on social media and this thread. I think it's very important they continue to bring out more fixes and improvements, it's also a huge win for great PR and future sales. 

[NightmanCometh96]

13 hours ago, videotechuk_ said:

Really hope Rockstar are keeping eyes on social media and this thread. I think it's very important they continue to bring out more fixes and improvements, it's also a huge win for great PR and future sales. 

If VGD does continue working on the DE, it would be nice if the latest updates were preinstalled on future physical pressings. It’d also be the perfect excuse for R*/T2 to finally release a proper PS5 disc (or at least grant PS4 copies a PS5 license as long as the disc is inserted).

 

I say that, because imagine the alternative. Decades from now, long after the servers for Current Gen consoles are offline, let’s say someone has nostalgia for the PS5 days of yore and grabs a second-hand copy. They insert the disc, lo and behold: they’re greeted with the Grove Street Games logo on the old splash screen… 
 

Of course, the OGs (be it PS2/Xbox emulation or a Nightdive-esque rerelease for the 30th anniversary) could also be available once again by that point; so the day one version of the DE would just be a curiosity at best in that case.  

Edited November 20, 2024 by NightmanCometh96

[suicidehummer]

9 hours ago, SquoniX said:

Those are supposed to be before and after the patch. That’s why the trees are missing. 
 

I think the confusion took place because of terms like “Before and After” and “Classic and OG DE lighting.”

 

I will edit my post to make it clear. 

From your pictures, they look like entirely different tree models.

 

7 hours ago, boomboom5950 said:

i also noticed that some environments look alot more barren now. I checked some of my old screenshots from release and yes, they did remove alot of trees from around the map. When i find the time ill post some comparisons but they 100% removed a decent amount of vegetation this update

Strange, I wonder if it was an effort to make them run better?

 

6 hours ago, Moncastler said:

I disagree, from a remaster I generally expect to play the original version in an enhanced way. Some things could look different, but if the game is presented in a way that doesn't remotely match the original vision of devs I think we have a problem. This release was also labelled "The Definitive Edition", so I would expect this to be the "definitive way" of playing these games. But I agree on the fact that the various effects exclusive to "classic lighting" should have been made available even if you preferred the GSG lighting.

 

As much as I prefer the originals, we can't just recommend everyone to go back and play them. If you're on a modern console, there's no option to play the originals. On older consoles and on PS4 / PS5 there are ways to play the original PS2 / Xbox versions, but you have to deal with awful controls, poor image quality, abysmal performance and outdated gameplay. If you're on PC you have to mod them, that's a requirement because the unmodded PC versions are easily the worst way of playing these games. It's also not a given that the original PC versions will always run on modern systems, a Windows update could easily brake compatibility for old software and if we're ever going to transition to ARM there could be unexpected problems. I think it's important to have Trilogy DE in a state that can be considered somewhat acceptable and closer to the originals from an artistic point of view.

I think the problem is that this kinda falls between a remaster and a remake. I don't think a remaster would usually involve porting the game into a whole new engine. Granted, I'm not a big gamer so that could be wrong.

[NightmanCometh96]

1 hour ago, suicidehummer said:

I think the problem is that this kinda falls between a remaster and a remake. I don't think a remaster would usually involve porting the game into a whole new engine. Granted, I'm not a big gamer so that could be wrong.

IMO, it almost feels like they initially just planned to do remasters, but at some point in development, someone at R*, T2 or GSG took note of all those YouTube commenters who wanted "the old GTAs with GTA V graphics", as if things were that simple. As such, they tried to more drastically overhaul the visuals (with terrible results). EDIT: I'm not sure how early on the decision was made to move to UE4. though.

 

The DE really should have just been a remaster akin to Nightdive or pre-Sony-acquisition Bluepoint projects. What we actually got was a half-hearted attempt at trying to please both die-hard purists and those who wanted full-blown remakes, and again, it just failed miserably (at least until VGD came aboard to fix things, but even then, things are still far from perfect). And besides, with R*'s "always moving forward" mentality, as well as their vehement refusal to revisit legacy titles in-house, actual remakes a la Resident Evil 2-4 or Silent Hill 2 were never going to happen (Max Payne 1 and 2 were made by Remedy, so I'm not counting them here).

Edited November 20, 2024 by NightmanCometh96