Phil Bell’s Agenda

[The Journey]

Phil Bell, he seems very smart and calculating - always planning one move ahead. Way too smart to just be the unofficial consigliere for a joke of a mob boss who undervalues him for having Irish heritage.

 

Also the way he reacted to Niko going against the deal and killing Jimmy. When he called Niko, he seemed very calm about it all. He had to have had an agenda behind all of it, maybe he was the rat instead of Ray - but I already think the heat brought on the Pegorinos is due to Niko being watched by the Feds.
 

I think Phil had some secret connections to the other Liberty City families, and to the McReary crime family when they were in their prime. I think Phil is the one who introduced Gerald and Packie to Ray before the story started.

 

In LCS, JD O’Toole was giving info on the Sindacco’s to the Leone’s, Phil mirrors JD O’Toole from LCS in a few ways, just a smarter version of him. He definitely wasn’t only working with Pegorino. What do you think?

 

PS: either way my theory is that shortly after GTA IV ends, Phil Bell sits in a diner and let’s just say it ends like Tony Sopra-

Edited March 11, 2024 by The Journey

[universetwisters]

1 hour ago, The Journey said:

but I already think the heat brought on the Pegorinos is due to Niko being watched by the Feds.

 

I think the heat came from Niko going to a hospital and killing a state witness against Pegorino moreso than Niko himself tbh

 

1 hour ago, The Journey said:

Also the way he reacted to Niko going against the deal and killing Jimmy. When he called Niko, he seemed very calm about it all. He had to have had an agenda behind all of it, maybe he was the rat instead of Ray

 

It's def possible. I don't think Ray was a rat. Yeah he was slimy most of the times but it wasn't like he was actively a rat or betrayed you or anything.

[Jeansowaty]

1 hour ago, The Journey said:

Phil Bell, he seems very smart and calculating - always planning one move ahead. Way too smart to just be the unofficial consigliere for a joke of a mob boss who undervalues him for having Irish heritage.

 

Also the way he reacted to Niko going against the deal and killing Jimmy. When he called Niko, he seemed very calm about it all. He had to have had an agenda behind all of it, maybe he was the rat instead of Ray - but I already think the heat brought on the Pegorinos is due to Niko being watched by the Feds.
 

I think Phil had some secret connections to the other Liberty City families, and to the McReary crime family when they were in their prime. I think Phil is the one who introduced Gerald and Packie to Ray before the story started.

 

In LCS, JD O’Toole was giving info on the Sindacco’s to the Leone’s, Phil mirrors JD O’Toole from LCS in a few ways, just a smarter version of him. He definitely wasn’t only working with Pegorino. What do you think?

 

PS: either way my theory is that shortly after GTA IV ends, Phil Bell sits in a diner and let’s just say it ends like Tony Sopra-

My own headcanon is he was working with Jon Gravelli behind the scenes but we never really know anything about that. Partially because this aligns with their anti-Russian-Ancelotti agenda, but also because he was well aware the Pegorinos are going down hard and half of the insanity he put Niko through wasn't even for the Pegorino's gain but merely for his own so that he can secure himself and Angie in case things hit the sh*t (and they obviously did). Come to think of it Pegorino explicitly mentions Ray's diamonds problems but he never really touches upon Phil getting involved with heroin and cocaine. Strange, isn't it? In short, he's not a rat to the police but he was definitely in touch with other players in the criminal underground. And if you ask me, he definitely fed sh*t to Pegorino to confirm his suspicions it should be Ray to go down and not him. I don't trust people who try their best to come across as legitimate as possible and Niko was way too gullible with him, imo.

Edited March 11, 2024 by Jeansowaty

[The Journey]

6 minutes ago, Jeansowaty said:

My own headcanon is he was working with Jon Gravelli behind the scenes but we never really know anything about that. Partially because this aligns with their anti-Russian-Ancelotti agenda, but also because he was well aware the Pegorinos are going down hard and half of the insanity he put Niko through wasn't even for the Pegorino's gain but merely for his own so that he can secure himself and Angie in case things hit the sh*t (and they obviously did). Come to think of it Pegorino explicitly mentions Ray's diamonds problems but he never really touches upon Phil getting involved with heroin and cocaine. Strange, isn't it? In short, he's not a rat to the police but he was definitely in touch with other players in the criminal underground. And if you ask me, he definitely fed sh*t to Pegorino to confirm his suspicions it should be Ray to go down and not him. I don't trust people who try their best to come across as legitimate as possible and Niko was way too gullible with him, imo.

I don’t think Niko cared that much about the Pegorino family tho. If Phil was working behind Jimmy’s back, Niko doesn’t give a sh*t as long as Phil’s paying him for the work lol.

 

I don’t think Phil lasted that long after the story either. The Pegorino family is gone, the five families have no more use for Phil (who was probably working with them and giving info on Pegorino). They probably had him whacked like JD O’Toole in LCS.

Edited March 11, 2024 by The Journey

[Jeansowaty]

1 minute ago, The Journey said:

I don’t think Niko cared that much about the Pegorino family tho. If Phil was working behind Jimmy’s back, Niko doesn’t give a sh*t as long as Phil’s paying him for the work lol.

Nah of course, my point is Niko called him stuff like "legitimate" or "better than Ray", it's like the game paints Ray as the bad guy and Phil as pure good which is what I wasn't exactly vibing with if that makes sense. No one there was a clean slate.

[Max Payne]

Ray was getting called all kinds of things yet he had compassion for people who double crossed him. His reaction to Niko taking out Luca’s crew is the type of thing that I haven’t seen from many people in GTA.

[The Journey]

1 hour ago, Max Payne said:

Ray was getting called all kinds of things yet he had compassion for people who double crossed him. His reaction to Niko taking out Luca’s crew is the type of thing that I haven’t seen from many people in GTA.

Yeah Ray was screwed over lol. I don’t even think he betrayed Pegorino.  Betrayed by the Lost, then betrayed by his boss who sent a mf HE introduced to the family to kill him .

 

Ray deserved a prequel, or maybe just fleshed out a little more in a Packie prequel. Something I wish the HD era did. VCS and LCS make the 3D era GOAT IMO.

Edited March 11, 2024 by The Journey

[Nico]

3 hours ago, Max Payne said:

Ray was getting called all kinds of things yet he had compassion for people who double crossed him. His reaction to Niko taking out Luca’s crew is the type of thing that I haven’t seen from many people in GTA.

Ray never betrayed anyone in the story but he has still full of sh*t. I doubt his reactions were legitimate. Johnny and (especially) Jim Fitz would beg to differ about him being "compassionate" lol

 

Spoiler

 

[The Journey]

3 minutes ago, Nico said:

Ray never betrayed anyone in the story but he has still full of sh*t. I doubt his reactions were legitimate. Johnny and (especially) Jim Fitz would beg to differ about him being "compassionate" lol

 

  Hide contents

 

Jim Fitz betrayed him, the Lost stole from him. This is a normal mafioso reaction, any high ranking criminal in GTA would do this after being robbed.

 

plus my theory is that Jim Fitz fakes his death and enters witness protection shortly after this, why Niko kills a guy who looks nothing like him.

[Nico]

I do agree that Ray was "justified" in his actions towards Jim and Johnny, after all it was them who betrayed him and not otherwise. I just found funny that you mentioned Ray being compassionate about the people who betrayed him when in reality he wasn't. I doubt he cared about Luca and the other boys either. That was Niko being clumsy (intentionally perhaps?) on the phone calls, this was even more evident when he called Ray to inform him of Ted Benavidez being dead. "Who's Ted? Sorry for your loss" Ray said.

 

Jim did die and was indeed killed by Niko on the subway, but here a big messup by Rockstar comes into play lol. Jim was originally a white bald man but was retconned into being Hispanic and older during TLAD development. This is similar to the whole Vic Vance fiasco between VC and VCS.

[The Journey]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I do agree that Ray was "justified" in his actions towards Jim and Johnny, after all it was them who betrayed him and not otherwise. I just found funny that you mentioned Ray being compassionate about the people who betrayed him when in reality he wasn't. I doubt he cared about Luca and the other boys either. That was Niko being clumsy (intentionally perhaps?) on the phone calls, this was even more evident when he called Ray to inform him of Ted Benavidez being dead. "Who's Ted? Sorry for your loss" Ray said.

 

Jim did die and was indeed killed by Niko on the subway, but here a big messup by Rockstar comes into play lol. Jim was originally a white bald man but was retconned into being Hispanic and older during TLAD development. This is similar to the whole Vic Vance fiasco between VC and VCS.

It is just a theory but it’s canon to me. It makes a lot of sense that Jim faked his death. The Lost were under a lot of attention from the FIB, Jim probably was the rat, he has a family and I don’t see Billy being the rat. Stubbs probably had an incentive from the government to lie and say it was Billy to cover Jim’s tracks.
 

And it makes sense that he would turn to them when heat got too much because he has a family, just like Michael. Why wasn’t Johnny arrested? He probably left to San Andreas just on time. Angus probably is in prison, they probably left after he got locked up.

 

It also connects to when Trevor killed Johnny after finding out Michael is still alive and betrayed him, he unknowingly “saved” Johnny from finding out the same thing about his friend.

Edited March 12, 2024 by The Journey

[TaylorSwiftDies2038]

8 hours ago, The Journey said:

Phil Bell, he seems very smart and calculating - always planning one move ahead. Way too smart to just be the unofficial consigliere for a joke of a mob boss who undervalues him for having Irish heritage.

 

Also the way he reacted to Niko going against the deal and killing Jimmy. When he called Niko, he seemed very calm about it all. He had to have had an agenda behind all of it, maybe he was the rat instead of Ray - but I already think the heat brought on the Pegorinos is due to Niko being watched by the Feds.
 

I think Phil had some secret connections to the other Liberty City families, and to the McReary crime family when they were in their prime. I think Phil is the one who introduced Gerald and Packie to Ray before the story started.

 

In LCS, JD O’Toole was giving info on the Sindacco’s to the Leone’s, Phil mirrors JD O’Toole from LCS in a few ways, just a smarter version of him. He definitely wasn’t only working with Pegorino. What do you think?

 

PS: either way my theory is that shortly after GTA IV ends, Phil Bell sits in a diner and let’s just say it ends like Tony Sopra-

 

Phil Bell always came across as the kind of dude who looked out for himself first and foremost. I don't think he ever had a particular close connection to Pegorino or his bullsh*t. He was there becaue it paid well, gave him some respect and allowed him to make good connections.

 

TBH I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out Phil Bell turned state and moved out of the state or country. His days in Liberty City were numbered. Maybe we'll find him relaxing on a porch in some Leonida suburb, or he'll be in GTA VI's version of Nassau living on an expensive expat property.

[nl4real]

Given how much of a mess the Pegorinos are, I wouldn't be surprised if Pest Control was an unnecessary product of Jimmy's paranoia after Anthony turning state's. The Diamond Deal and the FIB heroin raid are pretty good examples of how much of a mess they are. They don't need a rat higher than Anthony with how incompetent everybody is besides Phil.

[TaylorSwiftDies2038]

On 3/13/2024 at 6:09 PM, nl4real said:

Given how much of a mess the Pegorinos are, I wouldn't be surprised if Pest Control was an unnecessary product of Jimmy's paranoia after Anthony turning state's. The Diamond Deal and the FIB heroin raid are pretty good examples of how much of a mess they are. They don't need a rat higher than Anthony with how incompetent everybody is besides Phil.

 

Was Pegorino really incompetent, or jealous? He's constantly "paranoid" about Ray Boccino being a rat, when in reality he was one of the most competent men that the Pegorino Family had. He stupidly orders his assassination which causes his organization to dysfunction even more. Yeah, incompetent, but I get the vibe that Pegorino couldn't be outshined by anyone else. IMO, Boccino wasn't killed so much out of paranoia but jealousy.