What version of GTA3 has the best audio quality for the radio stations?

[Iwazaru51]

I recently extracted the radio station files from the PS2 and XBOX releases of GTA3 and the XBOX version files seem WAY better, but it seems the modding community uses the PS2 files for everything?

The PS2 files are at 32 kHz/16 bit and have TONS of distortion and noise. Some stations like Double Clef (CLASS) are downright unlistenable on the PS2 files as there is just constant distortion when some songs play, but the XBOX .wma files directly from the disc are at 44.1 kHz/16 bit and are clean as a whistle. The xbox files ARE smaller though, but when dropping the files on top of each other for a direct comparison the Xbox ones sound obviously way better to me.

Am I missing something? is there a reason everyone has decided the ps2 files are the "best?"

I know the PC files are crap do I didn't bother getting those btw

Thanks everyone!

Edited December 25, 2023 by Iwazaru51

[stef_92]

PC are the best. XBOX seem to me as the PC files converted to WMA and mobile - same but converted to mp3. Xbox are 44.1 khz but if you do spectral analysis you'll see frequencies encoded only up to ~16khz which confirms that they are sourced from the PC version. The same goes for mobile. In fact, the only radio station that is fully 44.1 khz is Game FM (PC Version)

Edited December 27, 2023 by stef_92

[Rolf Wiedeke]

As far as I know the PC version that was available on Steam has the best quality audio files for the radio stations.

[Stahli]

The Xbox version sounds the best. The Steam version has the same audio files as the PC retail version from 2002. And this sounds worse compared to the Xbox version. That's why I also use the Xbox files in my GTA III.

[Stahli]

On 12/25/2023 at 5:34 PM, Iwazaru51 said:

...but it seems the modding community uses the PS2 files for everything?

Maybe because the Xbox and PC versions are missing a song and maybe there are other songs or spots that are different? I know that the song Giacomo Puccini - "O mio babbino caro" was only available in the PS2 version.

 

//Edit: Sorry for the Double Post. I actually wanted to edit but forgot.

Edited February 10, 2024 by Stahli

[Iwazaru51]

After doing a ton of comparisons the STEAM (Not PC Disc) version has the highest quality radio for sure. 

[Stahli]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:27 PM, Iwazaru51 said:

After doing a ton of comparisons the STEAM (Not PC Disc) version has the highest quality radio for sure. 

The Steam version has the same audio files as the PC retail version from 2002. And this sounds worse compared to the Xbox version.

[Iwazaru51]

24 minutes ago, Stahli said:

The Steam version has the same audio files as the PC retail version from 2002. And this sounds worse compared to the Xbox version.

This has proven to be false on this forum by other members and I myself having the GTA 3 PC disc extracted and the original steam version extracted as well side by side. There is a massive difference.

 

The PC disc audio is AWFUL. The steam radio stations files are based off the Xbox masters, but have a much better codec and sound leagues better than the PC version. I wish people would stop saying they have the same files as they do not at all. 

Edited April 25, 2024 by Iwazaru51

[Stahli]

  

1 hour ago, Iwazaru51 said:

This has proven to be false on this forum by other members and I myself having the GTA 3 PC disc extracted and the original steam version extracted as well side by side. There is a massive difference.

Where? I checked it again.

 

Check out the file sizes (Größe) on my screenshot.

left: Xbox
middle: Retail Disc (first release)
right: Steam

 

Retail Disc Audio Files have the same file size as the Steam files.

 

Details Disc Version (RISE FM)

Format                                   : Wave
File size                                : 48.2 MiB
Duration                                 : 26 min 19 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 256 kb/s

Audio
Format                                   : ADPCM
Codec ID                                 : 11
Codec ID/Hint                            : Intel
Duration                                 : 26 min 19 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 256 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 32.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 4 bits
Stream size                              : 48.2 MiB (100%)

 

Details Steam Version (RISE FM)

Format                                   : Wave
File size                                : 48.2 MiB
Duration                                 : 26 min 19 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 256 kb/s

Audio
Format                                   : ADPCM
Codec ID                                 : 11
Codec ID/Hint                            : Intel
Duration                                 : 26 min 19 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 256 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 32.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 4 bits
Stream size                              : 48.2 MiB (100%)

 

 

Edited April 25, 2024 by Stahli

[Iwazaru51]

You files are different than mine for Steam and Xbox. PC IS SPOT ON THOUGH, but this is weird. I even went back and re-ripped my pc disc, xbox disc and went to the steam audio folder. Everything is correct and I have never converted the file types or modded anything. Your xbox files being .WAV is very strange though as they are .WMA straight from the disc. 

Link to my screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/aDbRDoZ

You can clearly see how much larger my steam WAV files are compared to PC and you can hear the difference big time. Xbox is VERY close, but as confirmed it used an old codec. I wonder if the steam version of the game came with different audio files at different points in time?

I'm currently editing a huge audio project with GTA radio and I can let you hear how much cleaner these larger Steam files sound over pc, ps2, and xbox. The data also shows they are indeed higher quality files on my screenshots as well.

This is totally strange though if those are really your untouched files (Those xbox files were converted though no doubt)

Ash_375 also posted this. 
 

"Just to confirm, the Steam version IS the best available version as they've been done with the masters from the Xbox version, only here they've been encoded as 256kbps, 32Khz, 4bit LPCM (Same settings the retail version uses for all stations except Chatterbox) this also includes Chatterbox, so if you want the best quality version of Chatterbox, Steam version is the way to go. The Xbox versions were encoded with 128kbps, 44.1Khz, WMA8, which is quite an outdated codec, but because of the higher sample rate it will sound slightly cleaner but the negative of that is that the flaws of the lower bitrate are also amplified, which is why I prefer the sound of the Digital Distribution versions.

 

Now, the case here is about RISE FM, and I'm going to be honest, mastering wise, for some odd reason, it was never re-done for the PC version and again, was never done for the Xbox release, which means, the Digital Distribution versions couldn't use the "remaster" because it wasn't available, so yeah, ______ is right in this case, the one on Disc is the same as the one on Steam, since the station was never remastered. By that logic, it does mean the Xbox version might be the best sounding one available due to the higher sample rate making it sounds a bit cleaner, and because the station was never treated properly, the flaws are on all versions, so the negatives of using WMA8 arn't really an issue here.

 

Just to round off, the Mobile version of GTA III uses the Digital Distribution versions converted to 96kbps, 32Khz, MP3, so again, no remaster for Rise FM, also a shame as these could have been converted from a Master and could have been the best available yet, but no. http://media.gtanet.com/gtaforums/images/html/emoticons/sad.gif"

 

Here are what my files show for those who don't wanna look at the pics. 

Steam radio files (9)  2.45gb WAV - 16/48 1536 kbps

 

PC Radio FIles (9) 429mb WAV - 4/32 258 kbps

 

Xbox radio Files (9) 208mb WMA  44.1/16 128kbps

 

Now I don't think those Steam files are actually 16/48 1536 at all, but you can tell they are from the xbox files and not the PC just by using your ears in mere seconds. Those PC files sound pretty damn bad. Even worse than ps2 (sans a few cutscene and sfx audio which is way better on PS2) I have done massive comparisons of the 4 main versions of GTA3 audio at this point and the Steam files I have for the radio station are the best right above Xbox no doubt. 

Your steam files being the same as the PC files might be why there is so much differing information about the pc audio being the same as steam and others saying the steam files are from xbox, but better. 

I think some copies of the steam version came with PC files at one point and at another point they came with better compressed xbox masters and that is why there is all this conflicting info around, 

 

Edited April 25, 2024 by Iwazaru51

[Stahli]

To my Xbox files. Yes, I believe my Xbox files are not RAW from the disc. I believe they were converted to MP3 and renamed to WAV so they would work in the game. The PC and Steam files are 100% legit.

 

To the Steam Audio Files. When I went to sleep last night I thought about whether it might have something to do with the German version. The German version was censored at the time (no blood, no kicking when someone is on the ground, no rampages and so on). It has nothing to do with audio per se, but perhaps Steam uses a different version for Germany and simply left the old radio stations. It's just a guess.

 

Let's see if we can find out something else. But that seems to be where this conflict comes from. Some, like me, don't have these 2,45 GB files.

 

 

[Iwazaru51]

6 hours ago, Stahli said:

To my Xbox files. Yes, I believe my Xbox files are not RAW from the disc. I believe they were converted to MP3 and renamed to WAV so they would work in the game. The PC and Steam files are 100% legit.

 

To the Steam Audio Files. When I went to sleep last night I thought about whether it might have something to do with the German version. The German version was censored at the time (no blood, no kicking when someone is on the ground, no rampages and so on). It has nothing to do with audio per se, but perhaps Steam uses a different version for Germany and simply left the old radio stations. It's just a guess.

 

Let's see if we can find out something else. But that seems to be where this conflict comes from. Some, like me, don't have these 2,45 GB files.

 

 

That would make a ton of sense and would actually put a nail in the coffin of people saying steam files are better masters of xbox files VS others saying they are identical pc audio files. 

 

Check this out, I found a Steam upload of gta3 on archive.org and those audio files are the exact same as PC then I downloaded another Steam version from a torrent site (Classic GTA3 is totally unavailable on Windows by legal means, so I think it's okay to mention this here?) and it had the same 2.45 gb wav files I have in my steam audio folder. 

 

I think this proves that different countries or just at different times the Steam audio files were swapped with pc vs higher quality Xbox master files. 

Edited April 26, 2024 by Iwazaru51

[Stahli]

I think you're still ok with the torrents since you didn't post a link or anything like that.

But your actual Steam version with the 2.45 GB audio files is original from Steam, right? Even if you delete them and reinstall them, the files will be installed again, right?

[Iwazaru51]

6 hours ago, Stahli said:

I think you're still ok with the torrents since you didn't post a link or anything like that.

But your actual Steam version with the 2.45 GB audio files is original from Steam, right? Even if you delete them and reinstall them, the files will be installed again, right?

I have no idea. I haven't had steam on my PC in a long time. This is an old Install for GTA3 I kept for Audio purposes. 

[Bunneyko]

My steam version

[Stahli]

thanks @Bunneyko for sharing.

 

@Ash_735 Maybe you can help here. How big are your Steam Audio Files?

[stef_92]

I'll do a spectral analysis once I'm back home and I'll show you how it is. Looking at codec metadata is just half of the picture because you can have the so called "upscaled" files (basically audio with lower bitrate or/and sample rate but re-encoded in higher one). I'm speaking from memory and that's why I want to actually verify it but what I remember is that technically speaking the PC version (which I think has identical files to the Steam version) has the highest quality you can get. The original PS2 radios have worse quality. Now some may argue that the Xbox files are better but like I mentioned - ti's not clear what sources did they use before converting them to WMA. If they somehow keep the real masters and use them as a source - then yes, I think Xbox might have the highest quality. If they just converted the WAV files from PC version (which is what I think happened) - then no, Xbox files can't have the same quality after being encoded into a lossy format. The same applies for Mobile version and probably Definitive Edition. But it's difficult to say because after doing spectral analysis I see the obvious cut after 16 KHz. The problem is that this can be because one of two things - the source itself was a 32KHz sample rate (which can encode frequencies up to 16 KHz) or the source was an actual 44.1 KHz sample rate but usually mp3 and wma encoders put a LP filter on ~16 KHz on lower bitrates.

 

So for now I still support my previous comment that the best quality is on the PC version

 

I'll talk more (and provide comparison screenshots) when I verify the files on my PC.

Edited April 30, 2024 by stef_92

[MrEWhite]

I just did a fresh download of GTA 3 on Steam and compared to my dual CD version, and the sizes between a disc install of the game and a Steam install are identical for me. 

 

It also seems that if you look at the SteamDB page, the file sizes are the same as the disc version as well. Did they swap the files at some point? Looking at the history, that doesn't seem to be the case, at least looking back as far as 2013. So what could be the origin of the higher quality files if it wasn't ever changed?

Edited December 19, 2024 by MrEWhite

[Patrick10]

Xbox version, very loud