Vehicle Classification Makes no Sense

[DanDaFreakinMan]

I can't be the only one who get annoyed by this, right? Rockstar clumped all the vehicles in the game within a certain category based on their general characteristic. This is crucial for choosing a specific set of vehicles to use in a job. 
Now most of the vehicles do make sense. Banshee is a sports car so it is in Sports class. But some are a bit out of place, like Banshee 900R being a modified version of the same sports car, but now in the Supers class. 

I think it'd make for an interesting discussion point to see which car belongs in the wrong class and where it should've been instead. This is mostly my opinion of course, but if anyone got a good explanation for why they are the way they are then feel free to educate me. 

 

Also I won't be talking much about the Tuners sub-class since just about anything could fit under there if you BS it enough. Hell if a Warrener HKR is considered one I say the Weevil is a tuner too! 

 

 

 

Supers 

• Bravado Banshee 900R: Based on a sports car that is already in the Sports class in the game. Why make it Supers now? It's faster yeah, but not by much, and to be a supercar isn't just about being real fast. It's also about being elegant and hard to obtain as well. Hence why some call them "exotic cars." Something a modified Dodge Viper SR II isn't.
• Coil Voltic & Rocket Voltic: Based on a sports car, performs like a sports car, should be in Sports class. One could argue for the Rocket Voltic since it got a freakin' jet engine in the back.
• Declasse Scramjet: Could technically work since it's based on a fictional futuristic car, but the design is clearly that of the 70s. Sports Classics could work. 
• Karin Sultan RS: Same reason as Banshee 900R. 

 

Sports 

• Albany Alpha: It's based on a concept luxury coupe. Coupes class makes more sense. 
• Annis Remus: I think it's old enough to be in Sports Classics class. 
• Benefactor Schafter LWB: It's slower than the original Schafter. Sedans make more sense. 
• Benefactor Schwartzer: Since it performs rather poorly in the game, Coupes class could work too. 
• Benefactor Streiter: It's a lifted station wagon. Either Sedans or Off-Road would make more sense. 
• BF Raptor: Honestly not quite sure where to put this, but it definitely doesn't belong in Sports. Motorcycles could work but it may be a bit out of place. 
• Bravado Buffalo S & Sprunk Buffalo: The original Buffalo was based on a grocery getter Charger. This one appears to have more power to it. It will fit in fine in Muscle class. 
• Coil Raiden: Sedans make more sense. Maybe the Plaid model, but the Raiden is based on an earlier Model S which didn't come with the performance model. 
• Declasse Drift Tampa: Just look at it man. It's definitely a Muscle car material. 
• Dinka Blista Compact & Go Go Monkey Blista: Given their poor performance, Compacts class would probably work better for them. They are sports compact cars after all. They are also old enough to be considered Sports Classics too.
• Dinka Jester & Jester (Racecar): I say they are worthy enough to be call a supercar. 
• Dinka Veto Classic & Veto Modern: lol put them in Open Wheel. 
• Hijak Khamelion: Seems to focus more on the luxury side of thing. Coupes or Sedans would work better. 
• Karin Futo & Futo GTX: Same reason as Blista Compacts. 
• Lampadati Corsita: Performance? Check. Elegance? Check. Rarity? Sorta check, but if the Gallardo considered a supercar then I say the Corsita fits the criteria as well. 
• Lampadati Furore GT: Is a grand tourer that leans more on luxury. Coupes seem to fit it well. 
• Lampadati Komoda: Not sure why yet, but feel like Sedans suit it better. 
• Lampadati Tropos Rallye: Is old enough to be considered a Sports Classics. 
• Maibatsu Penumbra: Way too slow in the game to be a sports car. To put into perspective, the Washington is faster in a straight line and only 1 second slower in Broughy's track. Coupes could work. 
• Obey 10F & 10F Widebody: Kinda similar to the Corsita where it nailed just about every criteria to be considered a supercar. Varied depending on who you ask too. 
• Obey Omnis: Same reason as its rival, Tropos Rallye. 
• Ocelot Lynx: It's not really that fast, that's why I'm thinking Coupes, but it's not too terribly slow to mark it off completely either. 
• Pfister Comet Safari: Same reason as the Tropos Rallye, but I can see it being in the Off-Road class too. 
• Pfister Neon: Same reason as the Khamelion. 
• Übermacht Revolter: Would fit better in Sedans. 
• Übermacht Sentinel Classic & Sentinel Classic Widebody: Same reason as the Tropos Rallye. 
• Vapid GB200: Same reason as the Tropos Rallye. 

 

Muscle (Just because it's American and got big V8 engine doesn't mean it's a muscle car in my definition.)

• Albany Brigham: It's a large hearse / station wagon. Sedans make more sense. 
• Albany Buccaneer & Buccaneer Custom: They are personal luxury coupes. Coupes make more sense. 
• Albany Hermes: If you think it's based on the first gen Hudson Hornet then Muscle would probably work fine. I, however, think it's based more on the third gen Buick Super, which would fits more into Sedans or Coupes. 
• Albany Lurcher: Same reason as the Brigham. 
• Albany Manana Custom: The original Manana already raised my eyebrow being in the Sports Classics class. This one makes even less sense since they are based on luxury land yachts. Coupes work better. 
• Albany Virgo: Feels more like a personal luxury coupe. Coupes make more sense. 
• Bravado Greenwood: Is more of a family car than a sports car. Sedans make more sense. Most of what we call "muscle cars" today were really just regular cars back in the day lol. 
• Bravado Rat-Loader & Rat-Truck: They are pickup trucks. Utility class make more sense. 
• Cheval Picador: Given the badge and the poor performance, it's probably based more on the Holden HK than the Chevrolet El Camino. Coupes or Utility would be more accurate. 
• Classique Broadway: There aren't many muscle cars made before the 60s, and this is definitely not one of them. More like a Sedans or Coupes class. 
• Declasse Moonbeam & Moonbeam Custom: Look like a van, sound like a van, perform like a van, they are vans! 
• Declasse Tahoma Coupe: Same reason as the Virgo. 
• Declasse Tulip: Same reason as the Greenwood, albeit you could probably mod it to appear more like the Malibu SS. 
• Declasse Tulip M-100: Similar reason as the Greenwood, but in this case Coupes class would work better. 
• Declasse Voodoo & Voodoo Custom: Same reason as the Greenwood, but Coupes would work too. 
• Declasse Yosemite: Same reason as the Rat-Loader. 
• Dundreary Virgo Classic & Virgo Classic Custom: The most land yacht of them all. Definitely make more sense in Coupes or Sedans class. 
• Invetero Coquette BlackFin: In-game maybe it's a muscle car, but IRL it's more of a sports car. Sports Classics fit better. 
• Vapid Slamvan & its variants: Same reason as the Rat-Loader. 
• Vapid Chino & Chino Custom: Same reason as the Virgo. 
• Vapid Clique: One fast boi, but Coupes or Sedans would make more sense given its role.
• Vapid Clique Wagon: Same reason as the Brigham. 
• Vapid Hotknife & Hustler: Given their age and inspiration, Coupes make more sense. Though obviously once modified they could've easily be considered muscle cars by that point. 
• Vapid Lost Slamvan: It's a panel truck. Vans, SUVs, or Utility would've fit it better in my opinion. 
• Willard Eudora: Same reason as the Greenwood. 
• Willard Faction & its variants: Buick Grand National and GNX? Yes. Buick Regal...? No. Coupes make more sense. 

 

Sports Classics (In my opinion, any performance oriented car made before the 1990s is considered a Sports Classics car in the game. Infernus Classic is the only outlier) 

• Albany Fränken Stange: Given it is hot rodded from the get go, Muscle class would've made more sense. 
• Albany Manana: More of a luxury thing than a performance thing. Coupes make more sense. 
• Albany Roosevelt & Roosevelt Valor: Don't remember Al Capone pulling out of apex with this one back in the 1920s. Sedans make more sense. 
• Declasse Tornado & Tornado Custom: More of a family car than a performance car. Coupes or Sedans fit better. 
• Declasse Tornado Rat Rod: Same reason as the Fränken Stange. 
• Imponte Deluxo: IRL it's probably more of a coupe since it handled like crap, but in the game I say it's fine enough to stay here. 
• Pegassi Infernus Classic: To be more consistent within its class here, I'd say it belong in the Supers class more. 
• RUNE Cheburek: lmao put it in Sedans 
• Vapid Peyote & Peyote Custom: Is more of a personal luxury coupe. Coupes make more sense for them IMO. 
• Vulcar Fagaloa: Same reason as the Cheburek, but Coupes could maybe work too. 
• Weeny Dynasty: Same reason as the Cheburek. 

 

Coupes (Now this one might be weird because some morons believe 4-door coupes should be a thing.) 

• Enus Windsor Drop: To be a "4-door coupe" it needs to be sleek looking and has little to no back seat space apparently. This one doesn't fit the criteria, so Sedans make more sense. 
• Lampadati Felon: Same reason as the Windsor Drop. 
• Ocelot Jackal: Same reason as the Windsor Drop. 
• Übermacht Oracle: Same reason as the Windsor Drop.  
• Übermacht Oracle XS: Same reason as the Windsor Drop. 
• Übermacht Sentinel XS: With HSW into consideration, it could totally be considered a Sports class.

 

Sedans 

• Benefactor Schafter V12 (Armored): Way too powerful to be just a sedan. Sports make more sense. 

 

Compacts 

• Bollokan Prairie: Fast enough to be considered more of a sports car. Coupes class could work too. 
• Karin Dilettante: It's larger than the Surge. Sedans make more sense. 

 

SUVs 

• Mammoth Squaddie: It's a military vehicle. Military class makes more sense. 
• Vapid Contender: You're not fooling anyone! Either Utility or Off-Road class would work better. 
• Weeny Issi Rally: It could stay here depending on who's arguing for it, but many believes it's better in the Compacts class. 

 

Vans 

• Bravado Bison: It's a pickup truck! Utility class. 
• Vapid Bobcat XL: Same reason as with the Bison. 

 

Off-Road 

• BF Dune FAV: Mostly the military use them. Military class makes more sense. 
• BF Ramp Buggy: ERROR 404 - ground_clearance.exe failed to load. Honestly don't know where else this would be though. Open Wheel could work if you squint hard enough I guess. 
• Bravado Duneloader: Utility makes more sense since it's horrible for off-roading in this game. 
• Declasse Rancher XL: Similar reason as the Duneloader, but SUVs class could work here better. 
• Declasse Walton L35: Utility would fit its characteristic more. 
• HVY Insurgent & its variants: Given its IRL inspiration and roles in the game, Emergency could work better. 
• HVY Menacer: SUVs class works better since its more of a luxury product. Can still off-road fine of course. 
• HVY Nightshark: Same reason as the Menacer. 
• Karin Rebel & Rusty Rebel: Same reason as the Walton L35. 
• Karin Technical & its variants: Given its role, Military make more sense. It's literally call Technical guys (improvised military vehicle)!
• Vapid Winky: Similar to its cousin Squaddie really. Military just makes more sense for it. 

 

Motorcycles 

• Pegassi Oppressor Mk II: It doesn't take much to be considered a motorcycle. Just needs two wheels. Yet, this thing has none! Military makes more sense just like the Thruster. 

 

Service 

• MTL Dune: It's a performance rally truck. Off-Road makes more sense. 
• MTL Wastelander: What service? Car jacking? Off-Road makes more sense. 

 

Commercial 

• Benefactor Terrorbyte: If the Brickades are considered Service class, then this should be as well. 
• HVY Biff: Industrial makes more sense since it's a dump truck. 

 

Industrial 

• MTL Flatbed: Given its role, it could've been in Commercial class as well without raising any eyebrow.

 

Military 

• HVY Apocalypse Scarab & its variants: Is actually based on the civilian model. Off-Road fits it. 
• Invade and Persuade Tank: Given it's a toy based on a fictional tank, Off-Road might work too. IDK.

[Pedinhuh]

In this regard, I stand with Broughy:

 

Ditch this whole nonsense of vehicle classes based on the bodywork/function of the vehicles and instead, rank then by tiers that considers their lap times and top speeds.

 

And not only for cars. Boats, Aircrafts, large trucks and specially bikes also needs such a system because there's way too much variety of performance in those classes to lump them all together.

 

Only problem with this, is that this would be the kind of thing that would push the game into being too much of a racing game instead of what GTA is, which is more like a jack-of-all-trades game centered around crime.

 

Either way, I can only hope that they do a much better system for VI because there's no way they're ever fixing this for this game now, way too late for that.

Edited November 21 by Pedinhuh

[gunziness]

They should remove this info on the UI for GTAVI as it never made sense to be shown IMO.

[Marciliojunior01]

3 hours ago, Pedinhuh said:

In this regard, I stand with Broughy:

 

Ditch this whole nonsense of vehicle classes based on the bodywork/function of the vehicles and instead, rank then by tiers that considers their lap times and top speeds.

 

And not only for cars. Boats, Aircrafts, large trucks and specially bikes also needs such a system because there's way too much variety of performance in those classes to lump them all together.

 

Only problem with this, is that this would be the kind of thing that would push the game into being too much of a racing game instead of what GTA is, which is more like a jack-of-all-trades game centered around crime.

 

Either way, I can only hope that they do a much better system for VI because there's no way they're ever fixing this for this game now, way too late for that.

The problem with the whole lap time thing is that would require a top level driver to test all these vehicles, which is something you can't have in a game on release, no one mastered the driving mechanics yet. 

Also it would be very dynamic as the meta changes accordingly to how people play. With 500 plus vehicles it becomes impossible to live balance them all

[Plocospermataceae]

Plus they don't really want to outright tell you that x car is slow, most people already just use the top two or three cars and just host sports or super races, which is why so many cars get sticked in those classes anyway. Barely anyone does races with like coupes or sedans. But yeah it kinda sucks, it's painful scrolling through a list of like 50 cars trying to get to the one you want to use before the countdown ends

[ddarko12]

16 hours ago, Pedinhuh said:

Only problem with this, is that this would be the kind of thing that would push the game into being too much of a racing game instead of what GTA is, which is more like a jack-of-all-trades game centered around crime.

Lol this wouldn't be a problem to anyone except maybe lunatic purists who are like "omgz!!1 itz not a racing game guise! >:(" and to that I'm like literally who cares.

 

Please ditch this dumbass classing system. sh*t could only make sense back in a time when sedans were really slow relative to other cars, and that was honestly a time before most video games. Sedans could reach 200mph and keep up with super cars circa 20 damn years ago. Body style has never correlated with performance in the speed factor.

[DanDaFreakinMan]

2 hours ago, ddarko12 said:

Lol this wouldn't be a problem to anyone except maybe lunatic purists who are like "omgz!!1 itz not a racing game guise! >:(" and to that I'm like literally who cares.

 

Please ditch this dumbass classing system. sh*t could only make sense back in a time when sedans were really slow relative to other cars, and that was honestly a time before most video games. Sedans could reach 200mph and keep up with super cars circa 20 damn years ago. Body style has never correlated with performance in the speed factor.

Yeah it's getting kinda crazy nowadays. Regular grocery getters today could gap sports cars a few decades ago.
That's no surprise of course. Powercreep is a thing in the automotive advancement. That's why Sports Classics class exist. 
Also I believe your final statement is a bit untrue. You could kinda tell which car was fast just by looking at it. I guess the proper way to look at it is that most sleek-bodied cars are fast, but not all fast cars have sleek body style.

[ddarko12]

2 hours ago, DanDaFreakinMan said:

Also I believe your final statement is a bit untrue. You could kinda tell which car was fast just by looking at it. I guess the proper way to look at it is that most sleek-bodied cars are fast, but not all fast cars have sleek body style.

I meant that in general. Obviously a mid-engine sports car with a low nose looks like it's going to go fast. But you could literally put a 1000hp engine in anything and have it gap a base sports car in a straight-line is what I mean. Or have a big luxury car like an S65 AMG that looks like a regular luxury barge keep up with a super car on the autobahn because it has 738lbft of torque and once you get past 60mph it just keeps pulling.

 

The class system in GTA V feels more like "well sedans can only be so fast, well SUVs can only be so fast" and that is how the base game actually felt too.  A lot of cars felt like they were held back or just far less athletic than they should've been because of their body style. Eventually, it's like they realized that was no longer true and as a result had to break their own outdated class system even more.

Edited November 22 by ddarko12

[Pedinhuh]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:44 PM, Marciliojunior01 said:

The problem with the whole lap time thing is that would require a top level driver to test all these vehicles, which is something you can't have in a game on release

Well, that will depend on how much different the driving physics on VI are going to be on release in comparison to V, and if I got my info right, it's not going to be much different at all.

 

And there are tons of good drivers that could do this for free in this community, I think Broughy is one of them, so am I and many others.

 

On 11/21/2023 at 2:44 PM, Marciliojunior01 said:

no one mastered the driving mechanics yet. 

Eh, again, it depends. V driving physics have been figured out years ago, so it's really only a matter of how much different VI will be.

 

And personally, it takes me roughly a week up to a month, tops, for me to figure out the driving physics of a game and in-depth knowledge does takes a few years, but you won't need that just for a classification system that is better than the current crap we have now.

 

It can be done, only matter is if R* is willing to do it...And seeing how larger the racing community on GTA grew up because of GTA Online, I think it should be considered.

On 11/21/2023 at 3:02 PM, Plocospermataceae said:

Plus they don't really want to outright tell you that x car is slow, most people already just use the top two or three cars and just host sports or super races, which is why so many cars get sticked in those classes anyway. Barely anyone does races with like coupes or sedans. But yeah it kinda sucks, it's painful scrolling through a list of like 50 cars trying to get to the one you want to use before the countdown ends

Well, there's always a Performance Points system, like it is on The Crew Motorfest and Gran Turismo 7, it doesn't explicitly tells you which vehicle is faster and stats are "equalized".

 

The problem is that two cars with the same PP doesn't necessarily means that they perform better, on average, at all tracks so it can be an inaccurate system.

 

Still, a tier system based on performance around a track or a performance points system based on stats, are still much better than classifying vehicle by bodywork.

[Pedinhuh]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:39 AM, ddarko12 said:

Eventually, it's like they realized that was no longer true and as a result had to break their own outdated class system even more.

They actually broke that up all the way back in 2013 when the game was released.

 

The Coil Voltic, Vapid Bullet and Pagassi Vacca had absolutely no business being in the Supers class because they all were simply too slow for the competition(acceleration and handling wise) and they would work better as Sports.

(I mean, would it really be that far-fetched to believe that a Lambo Gallardo was in the same ballpark as a 2013 Audi R8?)

 

They were other cases of OG 2013 cars already being too slow or too fast for their classes on release, but right now I can't remember them.

 

The reality is that R* just had the wrong idea right from the very beginning.

Edited November 24 by Pedinhuh

[DanDaFreakinMan]

On 11/24/2023 at 12:12 PM, Pedinhuh said:

They actually broke that up all the way back in 2013 when the game was released.

 

The Coil Voltic, Vapid Bullet and Pagassi Vacca had absolutely no business being in the Supers class because they all were simply too slow for the competition(acceleration and handling wise) and they would work better as Sports.

(I mean, would it really be that far-fetched to believe that a Lambo Gallardo was in the same ballpark as a 2013 Audi R8?)

 

They were other cases of OG 2013 cars already being too slow or too fast for their classes on release, but right now I can't remember them.

 

The reality is that R* just had the wrong idea right from the very beginning.

Exactly. As big and rich as Rockstar Games are, they are completely oblivious a lot of times. My whole point for this discussion post wasn't necessarily about racing competitiveness, but more on about realism. Like, come on, Moonbeam in Muscle class? Really? 

In term of competitiveness, putting the Yosemite in the Utility class would just destroy it. 

[Pedinhuh]

3 hours ago, DanDaFreakinMan said:

Exactly. As big and rich as Rockstar Games are, they are completely oblivious a lot of times. My whole point for this discussion post wasn't necessarily about racing competitiveness, but more on about realism. Like, come on, Moonbeam in Muscle class? Really? 

In term of competitiveness, putting the Yosemite in the Utility class would just destroy it. 

Just like the Bison destroyed the Vans class...All the way back in 2013.

 

Truth is that R* is just completely clueless about this stuff.

[Yukiko Okada]

1 hour ago, Pedinhuh said:

Truth is that R* is just completely clueless about this stuff.

This is the real reason Midnight Club 5 was cancelled