Cfx.re (FiveM) is now a part of Rockstar Games

[Tez2]

I've heard the other side and their story is one-sided. Both sides have issues. The reality is that it doesn't take a few click of buttons to see the current state of FiveM as it is without factoring any of the sides. The constant cycle of pushing some changes and then server owners complaining of crashes right afterwards. It happened once, twice, thrice, and so on. It shows a lack of testing. And most servers are on the Chop Shop build, and not the recent DLCs. One member stated he pushed a change without testing and it was approved right after by an alt:V member. Without this member either testing it or replying back with a "It looks good to me." Not even waiting for their experiment group that are meant to test out those changes. And their management is apparently not doing a thing about that.

 

NTA shutting down servers was bad. Yet, the platform's stability was much better. Instead, you have people who push changes that crash servers.

[Jason]

15 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

I've heard the other side and their story is one-sided.

 

Hopefully we get a write up of that side of the story.

 

16 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

Yet, the platform's stability was much better. 

 

I'm no FiveM developer or server owner, but was it? FiveM's long had instability problems, de-sync issues, server crashes, crashes on the user end and more. It's a hackjob of an online game built onto a game that doesn't officially support this stuff in any capacity. It's hugely impressive what they've done but it's also inherently f*cky to say the least because of the limitations FiveM developers and server developers have to deal with.

 

I am by no means an expert on any of this, this is just stuff I've heard/seen over the years, but as of this moment it feels like some people are trying to paint a picture to make one side look really bad and the other look like martyrs, and to do that there looks like there's some revisionism going about. Again, I am not especially knowledgeable on this stuff, which is why hearing the full story is important.

[Tez2]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

I'm no FiveM developer or server owner, but was it?

Yes. A list of server owners have expressed that sentiment. It had problems, but it was way better than what it currently is.

 

By the way, it's not just FiveM. Even the developers handling the current alt:V project, that was left by those ex-alt:V members that joined FiveM, have expressed their opinions that those ex-alt:V members shouldn't be trusted with such a project. RAGE MP developers too.

Edited February 18 by Tez2

[Jason]

Fair enough on the current situation/stability of it. The impression I got from that article though was that it was trying to paint FiveM's situation years ago was a lot better than it actually was, which stinks of revisionism to further an agenda, which is what a lot of modding drama that spills out in public like this tends to be. Again this is why I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

[Tez2]

The other side will do the same. They'll do the same painting. The reality is that both NTA and Disquse have long been gone for months now, and those ex-alt:V members still pull off the same mistakes and continue to damage servers. We ain't seeing much of a technical assistance on the Cfx.re forum. So why aren't we seeing the same scale of improvements before the acquisition?

 

The net positive of the current state are the actual R* developers who are working on that secret project, excluding a single director that seem to be the same subject of mismanagement stories within the industry. They'll carry that project. NTA is on par with R* engine developers in terms of their knowledge of RAGE. Even before the source code was leaked. In an ideal world without such drama, both sides could have worked together to work on those Roblox/Fortnite UGC content.

Edited February 18 by Tez2

[Obito Uchiha]

3 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

The net positive of the current state are the actual R* developers who are working on that secret project,

Is it for gta 6? 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Tez2 said:

The other side will do the same. They'll do the same painting.

 

That is generally what the other side of a drama story looks like, yes. In terms of the state of FiveM's past, present and future, that's of course related but there will be two sides with their own versions of why it's in the state it is. 

 

When stuff like this is made public it's done so for a reason, so you you need both sides for anyone to make a fair judgement. Right now it's "this other side sucks, trust us", when usually in dramas like this there's more to it.

[Tez2]

You can wait, but personal drama clouding decision-making is bad either way. The "bad or incomplete documentation" that the "replacement" would have solved? There were already proposals for that by the members citied if you read this story.

 

There would be no need for a replacement project, no need for reverse engineering and hacking, if it wasn't for a certain group of managers. You have modders one side working with R* devs, and modders on another side reverse engineering. What's the difference? They are both modders. The actual clash that makes sense is maintaining open-sourceness and going closed-source. Still though, both modders could work and be assigned to both projects. Maintenance mode on the open-source one and active development on the closed-source one.

[Jason]

13 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

 but personal drama clouding decision-making is bad either way.

 

Of course.

 

The issue I have with the information that is publicly available is, as I've said, it paints a one sided picture. One group comes out looking okay, the other horrible. The other side has the right to air their own side of the story before being slaughtered online. You typically don't go public with this stuff unless you want to shame people or force through change, so letting both sides get their version of events out is completely fair and it's ludicrous if anyone suggests it's not.

 

It is of course still drama, I expect neither side will come out of looking good but yea, I would like to hear both sides of it given we now have one side of it out there.

[Tez2]

36 minutes ago, Jason said:

It is of course still drama, I expect neither side will come out of looking good but yea, I would like to hear both sides of it given we now have one side of it out there.

Fair enough. There are three sides. I doubt one side will get approval, but I guess we'll see what happens.

[SaH4PoK]

4 hours ago, Lexiture said:

 

A R* project that is intended to be the successor to FiveM

Practice shows that for such projects is being developed by people who are closer to ordinary players and have a more direct feedback (SAMP, MTA, once it was even WoW because it was done in more good old times) which is the direct and opposite side of R*, their approach is long stable and closed from others, although in the days of early GTA they had really good feedback from the testing team because in each next game they added really those things that were missing in the previous one, but I don't remember this trend continuing eventually until now. 

It will be interesting if they can do it or even try to develop these ideas which I doubt but who knows.

Edited February 18 by SaH4PoK

[Jason]

Oh we won't get R*'s version of it, no. 

[Xilurm]

Reading these things makes me wonder why would R* acquire such a messy project with such an unprofessional team behind it.

[Jason]

30 minutes ago, Xilurm said:

Reading these things makes me wonder why would R* acquire such a messy project with such an unprofessional team behind it.

 

I think I said it before in this thread but it became too big for R* to not have a hand on the wheel. It was making too much money, had a massive presence on YouTube/Twitch and was drawing attention for things like copyright infringement.

 

I mean according to the FiveM site right now it has 250k people playing it, that's the same amount of people playing Dota 2 or Marvel Rivals on Steam right now. To have such a player count means you have an active playerbase in the millions. It's not surprising R* wanted to own it, but yes, they inherited a project that routinely had drama issues, I think I talked about that when the news was confirmed that it'd hopefully mean no more random shut downs lol.

[BS_BlackScout]

I know this is a bit unrelated but... 250k players and it's 95% RP stuff.

Call me an idiot but I see it as a waste, especially when I've heard stories about how some of these servers have... questionable monetization.

 

About the drama itself. Just check Jason's posts, I agree with him, esp on the single sided argument part.

Edited February 19 by BS_BlackScout

[Claude_Lib]

I still firmly believe that Rockstar only acquired FiveM so they can control or destroy it. Given their track record, I highly doubt they are capable of doing anything for community's benefit anymore, they're just mad that people are not spending their money on Shark Cards in Online. Sabotaging the project so it self implodes sounds like a great plan, while allowing them to stay in the clear.

[Pankypops]

RageMP:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347727453583835138/1153065676941041774/Altair_my_reaction.mp4

[Jason]

8 hours ago, BS_BlackScout said:

I know this is a bit unrelated but... 250k players and it's 95% RP stuff.

 

RP is very popular but there are still a lot of non-RP servers from what I've seen. Racing servers, PvP, free roam, probably stunt servers, minigame servers etc.

[Claude_Lib]

3 hours ago, Pankypops said:

RageMP:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347727453583835138/1153065676941041774/Altair_my_reaction.mp4

A Discord link? Really?

[Tez2]

13 hours ago, Jason said:

I mean according to the FiveM site right now it has 250k people playing it

 

12 hours ago, BS_BlackScout said:

I know this is a bit unrelated but... 250k players and it's 95% RP stuff.

 

I wouldn't trust such a player count when there are servers who boost their player count with bots, and the management doesn't seem to be doing a thing about them.

 

Spoiler

 

They also made player identifiers, which is like your Rockstar ID, private from the public API, making it harder to calculate the real player count of a server. In contrast, Rockstar show the RID of other players through their API.

 

Update: They are apparently trying to address this by refactoring FiveM's authentication. They recently rolled it out, but it broke the identifiers, and were reverted. So we'll see how that goes.

Edited February 19 by Tez2

[BS_BlackScout]

9 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

 

 

I wouldn't trust such a player count when there are servers who boost their player count with bots, and the management isn't doing a thing about them.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

They also made player identifiers, which is like your Rockstar ID, private from the public API, making it harder to calculate the real player count of a server. In contrast, Rockstar show the RID of other players through their API.

Shame, it seems like the same thing they do on Minecraft servers. Pretty lame.

3 hours ago, Jason said:

 

RP is very popular but there are still a lot of non-RP servers from what I've seen. Racing servers, PvP, free roam, probably stunt servers, minigame servers etc.

Yeah, I've seen those but it's still an overwhelming majority RP. I remember once browsing through the server list and I even struggled to filter out all of them. I guess it speaks for some of the experience.

Edited February 19 by BS_BlackScout

[PolandMountain]

Since GTA V E is coming out today and FiveM support/version is planned I am wondering how is it going to be executed…

 

Enhanced features and rendering API wouldn’t prevent it’s users from playing on the same servers, scripts made for Legacy already aren’t made for it or GTA V in general, they are made for FiveMs framework… in fact FiveM scripts could work in RedM if you replaced/removed calls for native GTA V functions - which are gonna be in Enhanced anyways since it’s still the same game but with new functions (and those are related to graphics, not gameplay). Making it work how it sounds would require some love for it though and with how abandonded it has been lately (FiveM) - I doubt we gonna get any efforts to get crossplay to work. I believe the only reason why Enhanced cant crossplay with Legacy in Online is its new gameplay features, content and likely some work that would need to be done for compatibility since there are some core changes beside rendering API and new graphical features (whole point of Legacy is to not tank the performance with new features that require more horsepower - like faster cars and animals). I would imagine that getting Animals in Online required some changes to the networking code on its own... but they shouldnt be a problem if Rockstar/CFX poured some love into making crossplay possible in FiveM... 

 

FiveM has its own synchronization and network system and since the dawn it by default has animals (with some funny synchro issues like seaguless flat-posing sliding right above the ground) and most servers have ultra-fast cars and ton of additional assets that tanks performance and tanks the performance even on strong hardware, so not having enhanced features that would tank performance even if user decided to not use new graphics API and features is not relevant since FiveM (as oppossed to GTA V Legacy where even if user refrained from using new hardware heavy stuff he would be forced to experience it anyways since faster cars etc...) has its all and its even multiplied. Also FiveM supports a lot of Rockstar made changes and its running most of the time on a fairly recent GTA V build (I believe its not the most recent since you always need like 700 MBs of compat data and unless you went on like this for a year then you can never launch RGL to update GTA and be able to play FiveM (unless the server has game build newer than yours)) BUT the servers can be running on game versions as old as 2019 and content and features is simply not there on them  (When changing games build you always have to get like 500MBs of compat data and most likely its some with f*ckery to walk around not having some DLCPacks loaded while maintaining the same game build)... you cant spawn a new car or use a minigame or an anim added in 2024 in there even if your game build is from 2024... so with some compat data exclusive to Enhanced (basically making its features fully utilised even if updates were made for legacy and didnt accustom them) and usage of Legacy builds of GTA V updates (the ones that dont contain stuff that requires GEN9 features) could work. It doesnt seem like something impossible to overcome or very hard judging by how FiveM've been operating on technical level - its already been doing this things but now they would need to do extra step...

 

Theres lazy scenario I dont even wanna think about as a both GTA lover, person who waited for Enhanced on PC, server owner, FiveM modder and person who primariliy plays FiveM since its been named FiveReborn and had a slot limit of 24... its a strong possibility...

There will be no crossplay of the two game builds which is gonna make Enhanced on FiveM completely useless. It will split the playerbase, require some servers to host servers for both versions (which lets not lie ourselves, its not gonna happen) and require some players to have GTA V installed twice and since running heaviliy modded FiveM servers requires strong hardware which most players I met dont have (FiveM players are casuals, the same people who only play League or Valorant, they mostly have 16xx or 20xx cards. 40 series are non existent and higher 30 series GPU like 70+ are also rare. Highest end GPU that you see quite often is 3060.)

I dont think many players will be willing to play on Enhanced since its requirements are like 300% higher than GTA V and FiveM players even if they could go higher they play on 'optimized' graphics presets because they care for the FPS so much. Recommended requirements are for High settings 60 FPS gameplay... with hardware listed there you would have 80+ frames on maximum settings without MSAA in Legacy. Also Enhanced features say exactly nothing to your average FiveM player, they maybe heard about Ray Tracing on Tik Tok but they dont see why and how its cool. In GTA V Its a gimmick for tech people like me, what would it be for a casual player (?) that will call you a virgin for playing knock off League of Legends... after seeing a Discord stream of Baldur's Gate 3... FiveM players are equivalent to a person who bought a PS5 to buy FIFA and COD every year and only plays these games. Some FiveM players didnt even play Online or story mode in GTA V. They just saw Roleplay on Twitch or Tik Tok and got into it.

Simply no server would be able to live on Enhanced if it had no crossplay.

Edited March 4 by PolandMountain