Cfx.re (FiveM) is now a part of Rockstar Games

[roggek]

"If you can't beat them, join them..."

I think R*/T2 has a "nasty ace in the sleeves" here...

To completely wipe out the "modding scene" and use the assets for their own benefits...

R*/T2 has put RDO in the drain with high promises and then a completely 180 degree turnaround, and CFx.re will probably go the same way.

So Im not impressed for 5 cent...

Edited August 12, 2023 by roggek

[HolstenPils]

Excited to see what comes of this

[Jimbatron]

2 hours ago, roggek said:

"If you can't beat them, join them..."

I think R*/T2 has a "nasty ace in the sleeves" here...

To completely wipe out the "modding scene" and use the assets for their own benefits...

R*/T2 has put RDO in the drain with high promises and then a completely 180 degree turnaround, and CFx.re will probably go the same way.

So Im not impressed for 5 cent...

My gut reaction is no.

 

If they wanted to shut Five M down they’d have used the C&D route ages ago. Instead the let it develop on its own, presumably with the strategy of buying it as they have done now if it did well.

 

Whether they run it better / as well / worse remains to be seen.

 

I don’t know tons about the gaming industry or running a server based mp platform. But I’ve seen a lot of mergers and acquisitions: and in my view the number one mistake the buyer makes is trying to change too much too quickly. Generally because people are under pressure to deliver results and show the acquisition is worth it financially. If there is genuine synergy to be had though - and it’s not an asset stripping job, it’s much better to take it slow and really learn how your new business works before making major changes. Evolution not revolution is in my view the successful strategy nine times out of ten.

 

It’ll be boring in the short term but if R* subscribe to that idea Five M will trundle on for many months and no one who uses it will know any different, while they work out how to use it alongside VI when it launches.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Jimbatron

[Claude_Lib]

20 minutes ago, Jimbatron said:

If they wanted to shut Five M down they’d have used the C&D route ages ago.

But they did. Except FiveM was so popular that it was taken over by other devs and survived CnD, from what I know. I'm still extremely sad that reGTA didn't have the community support strong enough to defend it against Rockstar/Take Two.

[Spider-Vice]

5 minutes ago, Claude_Lib said:

it was taken over by other devs

No, it is the same people. Including NTA. He's still at the helm, is staying, and he even has tweeted about the acquisition positively as linked earlier in this thread.

[Jason]

You're smoking something strong if you think R*/T2 have come up with some super sneaky master plan to end modding for good by taking over Cfx.re then slowly dismantling it bit by bit. Modding is legal and can't be killed so easily and it's not for a lack of trying because as we know Take-Two have tried, multiple times. It doesn't work. It'd also be a massive PR sh*tstorm if they even tried to shut it down in any capacity, R*/T2 haven't been shy of that but they really wouldn't to have to deal with that today, FiveM is simply too big to go quietly at this point. The horse has bolted and there's no putting it back in the stable.

 

This is more likely R*/T* seeing the succes of FiveM/RedM (millions of active players), the popularity of FiveM/RedM on content sites like YouTube and Twitch and the demand for R* to officially support things like roleplay within GTAO, especially from the console community. It would seem their solution to this was not to make their own platform that would make this possible, which is a lot of work and would needlessly compete with FiveM, but instead bring Cfx.re and FiveM/RedM on board and built on that.

 

I know the team behind FiveM/RedM have mentioned they're not working on GTA VI and that may or may not be true at this moment but there's just no way R* don't get involved in something like this without long term plans. Their focus has always been console and while PC may move up in importantance for them with this move, whatever the motivations behind this move actually are you can bet they want console to also benefit.

 

The way this goes bad is not R*/T2 shutting it down, cause that aint happening, it's R*/T2 not giving it enough support and making the whole acquisition/partnership pointless.

[Spider-Vice]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

have mentioned they're not working on GTA VI

Technically they didn't say that, they just said don't ask us about it and that currently it's focused on FiveM/RedM (the only public projects). It's not like they'd be able to talk about it anyway. I am 99% sure their involvement has to do with GTA VI as well, seems obvious.

[videotechuk_]

Should we expect Rockstar to update the Rockstar Games Launcher with FiveM and RedM support soon, along with native Social Club support?  

[Claude_Lib]

I believe nothing will change for current Online, but Online2 will have RP gamemode by cfx.re devs.

[Jason]

11 minutes ago, Claude_Lib said:

I believe nothing will change for current Online, but Online2 will have RP gamemode by cfx.re devs.

 

Cfx.re aren't game developers, FiveM and RedM is a platform where you can run your own GTA V or RDR2 online server through. Server owners then either develop or download mods to run on their server.

 

Some of these servers have dedicated developers, the biggest, NoPixel, has a team of something like 40-50 developers on hand - most doing 3D work.

 

This is why my speculation is that GTA VI / GTAO2 will have a server browser (if not at launch, then after), where people can run their own servers. That's what they're getting by acquiring Cfx.re, not roleplay game modes. Rockstar don't need to acquire Cfx.re to make a roleplay mode lol.

[Jimbatron]

30 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Cfx.re aren't game developers, FiveM and RedM is a platform where you can run your own GTA V or RDR2 online server through. Server owners then either develop or download mods to run on their server.

 

Some of these servers have dedicated developers, the biggest, NoPixel, has a team of something like 40-50 developers on hand - most doing 3D work.

 

This is why my speculation is that GTA VI / GTAO2 will have a server browser (if not at launch, then after), where people can run their own servers. That's what they're getting by acquiring Cfx.re, not roleplay game modes. Rockstar don't need to acquire Cfx.re to make a roleplay mode lol.

Plus FiveMs customer base. Not sure how big it is but I assume it’s substantial?

 

Spoiler

If I was feeling especially tongue in cheek I’d also suggest it’s a panic buy PR stunt to distract attention from the horrendous stink they’ve caused with the non-announcement that was the glorified backwards compatibility fix for RDR on the PS4.

 

“5hit, what can we do that’d make it look like we care about the wants of hardcore fans?! Erm, umm, let’s buy FiveM!!”

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Jimbatron

[Xtra510]

I think there will be a server browser and you can make mods using the offical rockstar mod sdk and upload it to social club. Kinda like how Bethesda games does it 

[Need For Madness Auto]

 

Good Discussion  

[Jason]

31 minutes ago, Jimbatron said:

Plus FiveMs customer base. Not sure how big it is but I assume it’s substantial?

 

  Hide contents

If I was feeling especially tongue in cheek I’d also suggest it’s a panic buy PR stunt to distract attention from the horrendous stink they’ve caused with the non-announcement that was the glorified backwards compatibility fix for RDR on the PS4.

 

“5hit, what can we do that’d make it look like we care about the wants of hardcore fans?! Erm, umm, let’s buy FiveM!!”

 

 

It hits averages around 200-300k concurrent players every day I believe, so we're talking many millions in terms of active players. It's certainly popular.

 

As for it being a panic buy, no. Stuff like this doesn't happen that quick, this has been in the works for a good while.

[The-Ghost]

When Rockstar does their usual thing of talking about the viewership of GTAV on social media, they don't talk about this, which is the biggest drive behind that, I guess that changes now, they can claim and even market that aspect of the game now.

[Ser_Salty]

41 minutes ago, MaddenedGhost said:

When Rockstar does their usual thing of talking about the viewership of GTAV on social media, they don't talk about this, which is the biggest drive behind that, I guess that changes now, they can claim and even market that aspect of the game now.

It certainly wasn't the best look that 99% of GTAV viewership on Twitch was for FiveM. This entire thing could literally just be about them wanting to take ownership of the brand and nothing else.

[The-Ghost]

45 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

It certainly wasn't the best look that 99% of GTAV viewership on Twitch was for FiveM. This entire thing could literally just be about them wanting to take ownership of the brand and nothing else.

I'd even argue that would be a positive outcome if that's what they're after, not modfying, not changing anything, just having an overlook over the whole thing and gaining a new relatively large audience to market Rockstar products to.

 

They always talked about GTAV having excellent viewership on many social media platforms but only a small fraction of it was actually GTAOnline, it's FiveM for the most part, which they couldn't show or talk about before, but now they most definitely can.

[Jimbatron]

9 hours ago, Jason said:

 

It hits averages around 200-300k concurrent players every day I believe, so we're talking many millions in terms of active players. It's certainly popular.

 

As for it being a panic buy, no. Stuff like this doesn't happen that quick, this has been in the works for a good while.

The panic buy thing was a joke. I’m aware acquisition conversations take many months. (Hence the tongue in cheek comment. The last M&A negotiation I was involved in took 9 months to reach successful completion - which was regarded as quick. It actually got sped up because it started back end of 2019 and then COVID hit. Conversations that would normally have had to happen in person were shifted to video call which made it much easier to get senior people in the same meeting)

 

But to the main point, I had a go with FiveM way back when a friend set up a server (small scale stuff). I knew it was big now but didn’t realise it had grown that large. With that kind of player base you can see why R* is keen. Much easier to buy them in one go effectively than try to tempt them over, and make it easy as possible from them as players to adopt VI if they use the same network infrastructure etc.

 

Id be fascinated to know how the negotiations went it this one as it’s unusual to say the least. I’d expect NTA and key team members would get quite a wedge given the size of customer base, subject to standard earn out and non compete clauses to lock them in etc. But in this case there’s always the subtext (even if not explicitly stated) that “yeah if you don’t take this deal, we could just shut you down”.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Jimbatron

[PeterParkerHUMANSPIDER]

[Quinn_flower]

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Quinn_flower

[ddarko12]

I'm really not sure why people are excited. This doesn't look good, at all, to me. Am I missing something? Rockstar has not been very friendly with the modding community at all.

[DMMacdonald]

On 8/12/2023 at 1:50 AM, Tez2 said:

If you mean custom RP servers with the same level of access they have on FiveM, that's unlikely. Microsoft & Sony (especially the latter) have strict policies against that. These companies aren't gonna risk having some sketchy server owner running code that may or may not brick a customer's console.

 

What you could expect is something more akin to Battlefield Portal and similar tools. Rockstar's Creator/UGC system is kinda the same as that. That's generally what I expect to see from this partnership. A community-driven platform, as EA states, that would offer tons of customization. We have seen a reference to a dev-only freemode creator within V's files (that was more likely built for VI's and backported to V's) which would extend that customization to creating your own rules for your custom freemode lobby. Basically, what you could expect post-GTA6-launch is (speculation from my side)

• On PC, FiveM is gonna keep doing their thing. Probably upgrade (change) to SixM once VI releases. And Rockstar devs may help them with snippets of source code.
• On all platforms, you can expect this new community-driven platform (the Creator 2.0) much like Battlefield's Portal with tons of customization. If a new server or mode on the PC side within FiveM (or SixM) becomes a popular hit, Rockstar may consider featuring that on consoles as a "Featured Experience" aka "Community Jobs/Series 2.0".

Actually now that I think about it, the Community Series were introduced like last year. We already have Rockstar Verified, but instead of using that, Rockstar came up with this new take. They could be another feature Rockstar planned for VI's online.

Thank you for the response Tez, much appreciated! I was meaning just something that Rockstar could implement - whether that's on GTA V and Red Dead 2 or future games down the line rather than the custom RP servers available on PC - but you have covered all bases anyway. Again, much appreciated for the detailed response.

[DuduLima]

22 minutes ago, ddarko12 said:

I'm really not sure why people are excited. This doesn't look good, at all, to me. Am I missing something? Rockstar has not been very friendly with the modding community at all.

 

Being honest ... It's either two things to me ... R* will eventually kill FIVEM and REDM in the future with the (already in the sleeves) excuse of GTA 6 Online potentially having servers/clients which "needs" more expertise to run around.

 

Or finally use some server/client content akin to BF server's, maybe with some proper support akin like Bethesda's dev kit for Fallout.

 

(R* is scoring recent bad decisions, yet ... maybe that's the push they need to get back on the tracks or ... something to put the nail on the coffin for the future of GTA 6 Online and modding).

I ... won't be lying ... even with all issues i see R* making this "smart" move as either a way to kill the always "troublesome" modding scene or as a way to actually "try" to step their game, R* after all those years ... neved had something akin to SAMP, MTA, FIVEM to offer to the players a way to keep them engaged with their content in their own specific way.

 

 

Spoiler

I'm also seeing this in another way ... maybe R* is already trying to chop down the upcoming Everywhere, IF GTA 6 comes with a client which support servers and custom content ... then they have enough to cover (concerning content to the majority of player's playstyles or desirable styles) and to offers something WHICH a potential rival can offers, the rival which have some of the main key people which made R* a success.

(Which means ... this wasn't a movement intended to the future or present of GTA's modding scene, but as a way to eventually hit a possible competition).

 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, ddarko12 said:

I'm really not sure why people are excited. This doesn't look good, at all, to me. Am I missing something? Rockstar has not been very friendly with the modding community at all.

 

FWIW, numerous people well known in the FiveM and RP modding scene who knew of this announcement in advance sound very excited by this, which is a good sign if you ask me.

 

It's 100% reasonable to be skeptical and wait to see how it develops but on paper there's lots of reasons for why this could be a great thing for the R* modding community.

 

3 minutes ago, DuduLima said:

Being honest ... It's either two things to me ... R* will eventually kill FIVEM and REDM in the future with the (already in the sleeves) excuse of GTA 6 Online potentially having servers/clients which "needs" more expertise to run around.

 

This is is a bit tinfoil hatty to me. If R* tomorrow killed FiveM/RedM the result of that would be someone else would make a replacement, it'd do nothing. There's a gigantic demand for FiveM, it has millions of players and it has carried GTA and RDR's presence on sites like Twitch for years now. If they tried to kill it in any shape or form it would not be subtle, it would be seen from a lightyear away and cause massive riots, far beyond anything the community has done before when T2/R* have overstepped when going after the modding community.

 

FiveM is too big to kill at this point, it aint happening.

 

As I've said before the only way this fails is if R* don't give it much support which makes the entire thing pointless, but that won't kill FiveM.

 

6 minutes ago, DuduLima said:

I'm also seeing this in another way ... maybe R* is already trying to chop down the upcoming Everywhere,

 

Now you're very possibly getting it. Current GTAO has custom player created races and deathmatches, GTA VI, using the platform Cfx.re has built, could potentially have custom played created and hosted servers.

[DuduLima]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

....

There's a reason why some players see this recent movement as something bad. (That's why i said they will kill FiveM and RedM eventually, not in the recent future, but maybe after the GTA 6 launch or after the updates which will stabilize the new game's future).

 

FiveM it's indeed big, but nothing like a recent "trend" in the AAA Industry by many BIG companies buying other companies/service providers before killing/cripping/"merging" those companies or services, in 0~3 years since 2018.

 

GTA 6 is set to launch in ~1 to 1.5 years based on their recent reports. (IF "enough" people jump ship to the new GTA/GTA Online, than they can mow down FiveM and RedM development/access in a way people wouldn't even care, and this is already something which i believe it will happen because:

 

1- Unlike SAMP and MTA, they CAN DO this as proper owners without much of possible "legal trouble").

2- GTA V/Online is a ~10 years old game (fatigue is something to consider), many people including many of those which plays FiveM have the same sentiment, so this means more people jumping ship.

3- IF GTA 6/Online demand goes beyond their expectations, they can use this not only as excuse, but as eventual convenient manpower. (As a day 1 GTA Online player, everyone saw how R* lacked proper people/resources to do their jobs with early Online. If 6 Online is a success they actually expect to be, than i expect the servers to sh*t bricks based on the recent AAA Onlne games).

 

I believe FiveM can survive for a while IF GTA 6 Online starts in a similar way as GTA V Online did, but IF they go for the kill one for the sake of the other route ... i wouldnt be surprised because they already did this before with RDR Online.

[Jason]

28 minutes ago, DuduLima said:

FiveM it's indeed big, but nothing like a recent "trend" in the AAA Industry by many BIG companies buying other companies/service providers before killing/cripping/"merging" those companies or services, in 0~3 years since 2018.

 

Name examples of this? We have cases of publishers buying studios and running them into the ground but that's not as common as it was in the late 2000's and early 2010's, but none of it was intentional.

 

There is really little to zero precedent of a game publisher acquiring a modding platform from it's own modding community with the intent of shutting it down. That's why it's impossible to predict how this move will play out because there's zero precedent for a situation like this in the industry. Modders getting hired by the developer of the game they mod is one thing, modding teams getting acquired is another. It's very rare and in any rare case where it's happened there's never been a situation like this one, where they've acquired a platform like FiveM/RedM in the process.

 

It makes really no sense for them to kill it, it'd achieve absolutely nothing short or long term. It does however make a hell of a lot sense for them to actually support it officially - FiveM requires a legit copy of the game and it already has monetisation aspects for one, but also their own community has called for R* to support stuff like RP servers on console ever since it exploded on Twitch a few years ago.

 

I don't think this is a move that has much to with GTA V and RedM either honestly, I think it's a move that is entirely to do with GTA VI/GTAO2 and what they want to do there. The platform Cfe.re have built has massive potential for R* long term.

[DuduLima]

Oh well, here's 5 examples.

 

1- Zenimax/Bethesda, later smaller companies of Zenimax were integrated into XGS - (https://www.eurogamer.net/microsoft-buying-zenimax-parent-company-of-bethesda-id-software-and-more-report).

2- EA-Criterion merging specific teams to work on franchise after buying Criterion.. - (https://www.eurogamer.net/ea-merges-criterion-and-codemasters-cheshire-to-work-on-need-for-speed).

3- Embracer adquiring multiple studios, merging and buying assets and IP's. - (https://www.ign.com/articles/embracer-group-enters-agreement-to-acquire-eidos-crystal-dynamics-square-enix-montreal-and-more-tomb-raider-deus-ex).

4- Embracer after buying, rebranding PWC and Cryptic into Gearbox and merging companies under its umbrella later - (https://www.gamesindustry.biz/perfect-world-entertainment-rebrands-to-gearbox-publishing).

5- Tencent buying 1C and later merging and rebranding after becoming major shareholder - (https://www.shacknews.com/article/129033/1c-entertainment-acquired-by-tencent-set-to-rebrand-in-2022).

 

Bonus - Since 2018 XGS + The Initiative Project snatched many studios and small teams to work under their umbrella and since 2021, many of the studios which were absoved lost key people to other franchises, studios, rivals and etc, mainly because of merging/shifting personnel between studios and etc ... this was also later represented by laying offs (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-lays-off-10000-people-cuts-reportedly-include-xbox-and-bethesda/1100-6510650/), and also because of the creative diferences aka like it is implied with (https://www.ign.com/articles/several-forza-horizon-developers-leave-playground-games-and-xbox-to-form-new-studio).

 

All of this outside smaller companies merges, AAA companies rebranding/merging mobile gaming, services and etc ... since 2019, the main companies doing those things are Embracer Group and Tencent/Riot Games. While in fact we had many companies which bought and kept their newly assets brand/image in those recent 3 years, i still believe ... even with all the potential related to Cfx.re/FiveM/RedM that the brand/service can be closed, absorved or merged.

 

2 hours ago, Jason said:

" I don't think this is a move that has much to with GTA V and RedM either honestly, I think it's a move that is entirely to do with GTA VI/GTAO2 and what they want to do there. The platform Cfe.re have built has massive potential for R* long term".

 

Indeed ...

 

2 hours ago, Jason said:

There is really little to zero precedent of a game publisher acquiring a modding platform from it's own modding community with the intent of shutting it down. "That's why it's impossible to predict how this move will play out because there's zero precedent for a situation like this in the industry". Modders getting hired by the developer of the game they mod is one thing, modding teams getting acquired is another. It's very rare and in any rare case where it's happened there's never been a situation like this one, where they've acquired a platform like FiveM/RedM in the process.

 

I would't even care for this IF R* was actually a transparent company, but as early as the mid-end of the old gen in 18', i see a company that is unpredictable by nature, a company which lost many of the key people which made said company known, a group + company which in less than 3 years started to actively kill modding, while promoting bad/worse service, ports, so ... why they would go for a client/server system/service ? it's always for their future ... the whole service potential itself is bigger than people actually see ... i do care for the modding scene, which "can" be thown under the bus for the sake of a 6 Online with client/servers.

 

In almost 20 years of the gaming, i saw the rise of streaming/cloud, mobile games became a thing, games having over 150GB, rise of MTX, battlepasses and skins popularity, the more frequently collabs in games, advent of more complex gaming mechanics, acessibilty of japanese games in the West, HD and later 4K gaming, VR gaming, many aquisitions and merges, things from companies that i never expected to see, IP's being "killed/shelved" ... No precedent doesn't mean they won't do this or that.

 

Late 00' and early 10's was the era where many things started to change in the industry gaming scene, active MTX, Skins, PTW services, progression passes, things that never happened before, breaking the "no precedent".

 

I have my worries, but for now ... i do hope to be wrong and R* doesn't eventually kill the cfx.re modding/client/servers for the sake of GTA 6/Online and this move is something truly good for everyone ... modding + client/servers is what made GTA's something able to withstand the time and what saved V/Online and RDR II/Online on PC for many.

[Tez2]

Do you think the FiveM team wouldn't have analyzed the legal agreements from top to bottom countless times?

 

That tweet by NTA of him being involved in the future too is telling me the deal must have been agreed upon in a way that doesn't give T2 leeway to (despite being unlikely) shut it down.

[Kris194]

2 hours ago, DuduLima said:

Late 00' and early 10's was the era where many things started to change in the industry gaming scene, active MTX, Skins, PTW services, progression passes, things that never happened before, breaking the "no precedent".

Fun fact, if that wouldn't be bad enough, gamers make this world even worse to themselves and fivem is a perfect example of this. Back in my teenage years me and my friends were hosting a SA:MP server of our pocket money, no one had to pay for anything, nowadays everyone wants to charge you for everything. People were creating entire gamemodes and scripts for free, just for the love of that game. It's beyond me what happened to the gaming community in the last decade.

[Jimbatron]

1 hour ago, Tez2 said:

Do you think the FiveM team wouldn't have analyzed the legal agreements from top to bottom countless times?

 

That tweet by NTA of him being involved in the future too is telling me the deal must have been agreed upon in a way that doesn't give T2 leeway to (despite being unlikely) shut it down.

 

As well as the legal side of things, my gut reaction is I don't see R*/T2 buying it NOW to shut it down.

 

Let's say they wanted to shut it down. They did try to do so before and failed due to consumer backlash (as I've been reminded above). But arguably they have a better opportunity to do so now with GTA VI arriving. Whilst FiveM will naturally benefit from some loyalty, when GTA VI comes out, everyone is naturally going to want to play it, and there is nothing to stop R* creating their own equivalent platform for the new game, and putting in technical and legal measures in place to stop third parties creating and equivalent of FiveM to VI. So in that sense, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy it with the only intention of killing it off, when you could do so via the evolution of titles much cheaper. If you were going to buy it and kill it off (not making a value judgement on whether that's a good or a bad thing to do), the time to do so would have been much earlier in V and FiveM's lifecycle. Not now.

 

What makes much more sense is if they want to create and official equivalent for GTA VI - e.g. SixM (thank you R* marketing for the stupidly obvious brand name suggestion, I'm here all week) and you want to port FiveM's large customer base over as smoothly as possible, and buy a senior team who have a vast amount of experience in running this type of operation.

 

Whether of course this ends up being good or bad remains to be seen. Post merger/acquisition some companies go from strength to strength, and some it doesn't work out. FiveM has clearly been a success on it's own, so hopefully they will go in with an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality" and resist the temptation to meddle to much (commercially this will probably be huge however). More optimistically I'd say the opportunities are huge however. It opens up modded/custom/RP servers to a much wider audience, and potentially you could see more easy to use dev tools released - something like the mission creator I think @Tez2 says R* devs use etc.

 

Simply the main game having a browser to search servers to join would have a big impact in my opinion. One of my friends Klingni created a rather excellent CnC for FiveM, but sadly we never got momentum behind it. Not all of our regular crowd were comfortable with going on FiveM for whatever reason, some like me were in the twilight of their online gaming careers and couldn't play much, etc. But more importantly, when we played CnC in IV, our numbers always got bolstered by a few random joiners - as people could see our lobby in the custom menu and just say "I want to play Cops 'n Crooks, I'll join these guys". If FiveM had been official, I reckon Klingni's version of CnC in Los Santos could have taken off. That's the sort of possibility I see from this acquisition - growth in the area of modded game modes on custom servers etc.