Captain Northstar Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 I just replayed VCS without completing it to 100% and realized that story makes much more sense if you don't take over all properties in the city. I think canonically Vic Vance was never supposed to be a kingpin we make him out to be in our playthroughs. DISCLAIMER: Just because something is required for 100% completion doesn't mean that it's canon. Tommy Vercetti didn't try to work as a pizza boy to repay his debt to Sonny, Toni Cipriani didn't kill Leones on a rampage, Carl Johnson didn't work as a policeman. 100% side missions are gameplay feature, not a canon one. So in my opinion, Victor Vance is just a low level criminal, operating on a scale a little above Marty J. Williams. Now to the facts confirming my theory: First, he's just never mentioned to be a big time criminal. He and his enterprise are clearly operating under actual kingpins and crime lords. Both Mendez Brothers and Ricardo Diaz force Vance Brothers to work for them due to their large debts, they clearly don't treat Vance Brothers as equals. Compare their situation to Tommy Vercetti. While still running errands for Cubans, Haitians and Bikers, he never does it out of necessity or let alone threats. It's always personal favors (or voodoo magic). At the same time, big players such as Avery Carrington and Juan Garcia Cortez recognize him as equal. And while both Tommy and Vic fight off much larger syndicates, such as Mendez Cartel and Forelli Family, Vances clearly do it as underdogs, while Tommy is standing his ground in a city that belongs to him. Vance Brothers are incredibly poor through the story. They constantly need money, which contradicts the status of defacto owners of the city. Vic Vance doesn't even own a single safehouse through the whole game: one belongs to Phil, another one belongs to Louise and his biggest penthouse is actually not even his, it's a mortgage (according to Lance in "From Zero to Hero"). Financial necessity is a huge motivation for actions both from Vic and Lance. After "From Zero to Hero" mission Louise sends Vic a pager message: “Lance tells me you're gonna be rich... Does that mean you don't have time for me no more?". That confirms that he's canonically not rich before "From Zero to Hero". But what's interesting is that Lance's plan to become rich eventually fails when the cocaine is stolen by their mother. So there is no reason to assume that Vic becomes rich even after that. That is further confirmed by how Vic offers his services as a bodyguard to Gonzales and tries to negotiate the price, again confirming that every dollar counts to him and he needs work. Later he refuses "limo services" work to Barry due to it being too cheap, but after hearing that it's a bodyguard work he agrees. Despite being a businessman, Vic has no problem working as a bodyguard out of pure necessity for money, not as a personal favor. That means that his business canonically is not as profitable as we see it in the game. Through the story Lance is actually the one who tries to get rich, offering one scheme after another and getting into troubles over that. It is confirmed that he goes in debts to cover his luxurious lifestyle at least twice: first when he gets a mortgage to afford houses for Vic and himself, and second when he loans money from Diaz. If Vance Family owned 30 buildings through the city it would easily cover Lance's needs for a mansion and a fancy car. But both him and Vic are underdogs that barely make the ends meet. To activate the mission "Blitzkrieg Strikes Again" you need at least seven properties. I think this is the canonical number of businesses Vic owns. Just twice as much as Marty and easily affordable without even going on a war with the other gangs. It should also be noticed, that loan sharking, pimping and cutting cocaine is not something big players in town bother themselves with. Tommy, Mendez Brothers and Diaz all personally not involved with these low level enterprises, while small gangs like Bikers, Sharks and Cholos (who are so small that they disappear entirely during events of the game) fight over these small sources of income. And the main point. Through the whole story the primary motivation for Vic's actions was the necessity to provide money for his sick brother Pete. Only in the end of the game he is finally able to leave behind the life of crime and pay for his brother's treatment. That means that during the events of the game Vic didn't have the required amount. It's also worth noticing that in the end Lance mentions 20 kilograms of cocaine like it's a huge payday that will eventually tempt Vic to return to crime. Consider how insignificant this sum to any other known crime boss: Sonny Forelli easily acquires 20 keys just to "let his man loose" in Vice City, Ricardo Diaz steals this shipment like it's Tuesday without even knowing people involved in the deal, and Tommy Vercetti is able to pay back stolen money just in a few months (first in fake cash, then by Forelli thugs stealing money from his safe). What is just petty cash for Forelli, Diaz and Vercetti is a very significant sum for Vances. So, to summarize, Empire Building minigame is created to entertain the player but it's not relevant through the story. Canonically Victor Vance is a very talented, but a small time crook who is just trying to get by. Just like Marty J. Williams he would probably continue to live in his Compound house if not for Lance's irresponsible credit history. Financial necessity to provide for Pete is a huge motivator for his character, which negates fan's theories about him being kingpin and owner of half the city. So in short, what happens to Vic Vance's empire after the events of the game? Nothing. It never existed in the first place. Niobium, ViggoJames, bahraini_carguy and 14 others 17 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/992012-what-happened-to-the-empire-of-victor-vance-after-the-events-of-vcs-nothing-he-never-had-an-empire/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef_92 Posted August 6, 2023 Share Posted August 6, 2023 Nice post, you raised many things that I didn't consider myself when playing the game (I've completed it only once). By comparing the maps of both games I guess you can tell which properties make sense to be left untouched during VCS. Going_To_Aruba_01 and Captain Northstar 2 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/992012-what-happened-to-the-empire-of-victor-vance-after-the-events-of-vcs-nothing-he-never-had-an-empire/?do=findComment&comment=1072190583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BlackShadow Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 (edited) His empire buildings taken down by city/legal department for ["Insert logical reason"] and city built new buildings just in 1,5 - 2 years. Edited August 13, 2023 by BlackShadowX Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/992012-what-happened-to-the-empire-of-victor-vance-after-the-events-of-vcs-nothing-he-never-had-an-empire/?do=findComment&comment=1072196428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemoyne outlaw Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 On 8/2/2023 at 8:30 AM, Orto_Dogge said: big players such as Avery Carrington and Juan Garcia Cortez recognize him as equal. i wouldn't say they recognize him as equal. they both hire tommy to do grunt work. sure they are friendly towards tommy. but i never got the feeling that they thought of tommy as anything more than just a hired gun or lackey. when tommy tries to get cortez to help him find his money and drugs. he just brushes it off. he tells tommy that they are friends. but i don't buy it. it seems obvious that he is just using tommy. even his pay is bad. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/992012-what-happened-to-the-empire-of-victor-vance-after-the-events-of-vcs-nothing-he-never-had-an-empire/?do=findComment&comment=1072219549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenriqueV5 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Good analysis. Captain Northstar 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/992012-what-happened-to-the-empire-of-victor-vance-after-the-events-of-vcs-nothing-he-never-had-an-empire/?do=findComment&comment=1072259566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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