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Trying to figure out the exact gang territory's throughout LCS(Again)


Anywhere USA

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Anywhere USA

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Yeah.

 

Throughout last year, I made an attempt while 100%ing the game on PSP(so I could play multiplayer, still haven't found enough people for it) to track who controlled what throughout the game. I did ok, but I admit I kinda rushed and half assed it at certain points.

So with a fresh save file I decided to try to establish the situation at the start of the game. That's important, right? No info from Missions(even though those are by far the most reliable), just starting off by what I see in the overworld.

For context, full color means I saw guys spawning there(mostly), and stripes mean gang vehicles(mostly). This is just at the start of the game, and no mission info. I got to the other islands using the Splashproof Bike exploit.

 

I kinda just wanted to share my headspace as I start looking into it again so I actually have notes to look back on later.

 

Portland:

This was the easiest. I caught my biggest mistake from last time, Hepburn Heights was under complete Sindacco Control by the start of the game. It wasn't taken a few missions in, it wasn't just the southern half. That's a Sindacco held area. The Diablo's DO NOT spawn on the sidewalks in person, but you CAN occasionally see a Diablo Stallion on the roads. This makes sense, as while they DID NOT CONTROL THE DISTRICT, they existed as a group. (The GTA III website states they were founded in 1997, presumably November seeing as that's a reference to El Burro being a GTA 1 character). The map is showing actual gang control, not whether they happen to reside there(so a final map wouldn't show the Diablos at all until Calm Before the Storm, when thanks to Sicily backing them they take over the territory from the Leones, who had just taken it from the Sindaccos a few missions prior). This is also why the Avenging Angels and (for the most part) Liberty City Bikers aren't on the map. They're mostly street thugs who harass small time crooks and civilians, they aren't actually controlling the territory or threatening/fighting the big gangs for the turf. The one (possible) exception is early in the game, where the LCB seemingly DO fully control the Donut Stop and attempt to exert influence over a section of Chinatown(attacking Toni, hosting races) before he kills their leader and wipes out most of their guys. Other than that, not mapped.

 

The one divided district here is Chinatown. But for once, what I saw in the overworld and what I know happens in missions cooperated. After a couple hours of wandering, I saw Triads(both in person and in trucks) spawn in the southern sector, Sindaccos in the northern sector, and while none in person, only Sindacco cars spawned in the big center road by the hospital. This(both from memory and from what I saw on Youtube) fits what we see early in the game. The Sindaccos in missions are never shown in the southern section of Chinatown, even Vinny refers to the area they took as the NORTH Chinatown patch. So other then a bit of debate about the Bikers early game I'm really confident with Portland. All the territorys no one spawns in are pretty clearly Leone turf as shown in the missions later, so a final map would show that.

 

Also, I COULD make a map showing what the territory looked like shortly before the game, as we know the Sindaccos just recently took North Chinatown from the Leones. And while we don't know the exact timing on South Chinatown(Did it fall to the Triads before or after the Sindaccos took the north? Did one cause the other? Unclear) we DO know thanks to the GTA 3 website that the Liberty Triads were only founded after an influx of Chinese following the Hong Kong Handover in Summer 1997. So prior to that AT THE EARLIEST, it was in Leone hands.

 

Shoreside:

Doing this next since it's simpler.

Cartel spawn in all forms in the Dam and Airport. Yakuza in Pike Creek. Cedar Grove....actually I colored it wrong(for this specific map anyway) since I only saw Cartel VEHICLES and not on foot, but still, theirs. Wichita Gardens was weird as occasionally Yakuaza would spawn despite it not being their territory in the lore, but that would ONLY happen on the westernmost road, so I THINK what happened is that they drew the territory with a big rectangle and bits of Wichita happened to overlap(that district's boundarys are buggy to start with, a silver of Wichita exists on the other side of the river for some reason?). It's clearly a bug, so I did not mark it on the map. Forelli's mostly spawn there, makes sense, Hoods exist(Have since at least 1996 according to the GTA 3 website), but are just a street gang with no control.

 

Staunton:

Oh boy.

 

Let's start with the simple stuff. Rockford, Campus, and Fort Staunton are Forelli, guys on foot spawn, vehicles spawn, it's good. Torrington is also heavily Sindacco, it's their base, their casino, they spawn a lot. Of course, I also saw the occasional Yakuza car spawn, but given that they take the territory later in the game I'm gonna assume  this was a bug.

 

Bedford Point and Aspatria would not spawn anyone. So I'd have to rely on missions to figure it out. I know that by the end of  the game both of them are solidly Yakuza(at least southern Aspatria with the warehouse, not so sure about the Colisseum area). Bedford Point is still Yakuza in 2001 based on Kanbu Bust Out and Shima, and Aspatria is in Cartel hands by the time of 3. But I don't recall off hand if there are any missions set there PRIOR to the Yakuza expanding near the end of the game. My gut instinct is to say Aspatria is Forelli until near the end of the game and Bedford is native Yakuza, but I dunno. The whole thing could be Yakuza to start, or it could all be Forelli, or it could be a mishmash.

 

And then there's the two divided districts.

Newport is similar to Chinatown in that it's split North-South, and missions seemingly draw a decent line(Ammu-Nation and South is Sindacco, we see them in Living Dreads, northern end is Forelli, we see it in Love on the Rocks), but UNLIKE Chinatown the overworld spawning only MOSTLY follows it, I have seen Sindaccos spawn on rare occasion at the very northern tip, and I once saw a Forelli vehicle at the southern tip. Maybe the fact I know they go to war later in the game and the boundaries might be adjusted is messing with it. I think the line i picked is correct for the start of the game, but I'm not certain like I was before.

 

And then there's Belleville park. The eastern side of that has spawned everything. Forelli men, Yakuza men, Forelli cars, Yakuza cars. Does that mean they share the territory? Is this a bug because it changes hands later? I know Kazuki lives on the northern edge of the district, but living somewhere does not equal controlling the territory. Asuka seemingly still has her condo, doesn't mean the Yakuza run Newport. For god sakes the entrance to the area where Claude stayed in 3 has had Both Forelli and Yakuza spawn in the exact same spot. I don't fricking know. The road on the western edge has only ever spawned Yakuza cars for me, but I could have missed something .No guys over there. And I can't really make a solid guess here because the districts to the north and south of it have nobody, and the one to the east is also messy. And there's barely any missions here. Crazy 69s seemingly confirms the actual park proper was Forelli held for most of the game, and thus I guess the east road, but what about the Western and Northern edges? My gut instinct is to give the coastal road to the Yakuza and have it link up their  territory in Pike Creek and(presumed territory in) Bedford Point, but I dunno.

 

I'll actually fill it in fully and post how it changes throughout missions at a later date, but I just wanted to get this out.

 

(BONUS: I found footage of someone failing Shoot the Messanger, since the dialogue in that mission states the informant is going to meet Franco Forelli and have no clue where he was based. He's based at the Resturante Ecoli on the border of Fort Staunton and Rockford. This building is completely destroyed near the end of the game which implies Franco Forelli is killed.)

 

Edited by Anywhere USA
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Anywhere USA

After the mission Dealing Revenge, you'll get the occasional Leone car spawning in North Chinatown, though it's still mostly Sindaccos. This fits with the mission, they're now actively fighting over the turf, it's war. Double confirmed.

 

Also, while it COULD be a coincidence, the Triads seemingly started spawning one road further north after the mission. Like, immediately after I got mission complete they showed up in front of me. I'll have to see if the missions back it up(as they ALWAYS come first in priority), but it seems to suggest as the Leones and Sindaccos fight the Triads advance, even briefly. (Nah never mind it was the same road)

Edited by Anywhere USA
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Anywhere USA

After Big Rumble, the Leones are now actively trying to take over all of Chinatown.

 

also, in that one mission the Sindacco try to attack a road in St Marks

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  • 4 months later...

Ok, ok, the damn f*cking bikers. Liberty City Bikers.

DURING THE STORY MISSIONS, we see them hosting races that take place throughout Southwest Portland. We hear Wayne deals drugs outside a bar in Chinatown sometimes. And they operate out of the diner under the bridge.

During the Angel Missions, we see they have low level activity throughout the city, though not enough to threaten the other gangs. This is more or less the same position as the Angels(who operate everywhere in the city, and have notable HQs in Chinatown, Bellvile, and Wichita Gardens, but are clearly a lower level gang that can't compete with the larger ones and  thus aren't mapped).

 

My instinct is to map them as controlling the Diner fully, but nothing else as all their other dealings are small time and other gangs clearly own the turf, and then wipe that out after Overdose of Trouble and Biker Heat, as Toni has gutted the bulk of the gangs power and the war with the Angels distracts both biker gangs for the rest of the game.

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cant remember

Nice work, I only did a single playthrough of LCS and didn't freeroam too much so I have no idea where the gangs are.

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After Guns of Leone, the Leones launch a westward offensive into the Red Light District, seizing Paulies Revue Bar(effectively their HQ on Portland) and quickly afterwards driving the Sindaccos out of Portland. Hepburn Heights, Red Light District, and the North Chinatown Patch, all of which are now Leone.

 

South Chinatown still spawns Triads, so it's still disputed at this time, but other than that Leone's effectively run Portland.

Also, the deal in Contra-Banned does not imply any sort of control by the Cartel. This is a one time drug deal that gets ambushed, they're just passing through(I say this because they very well might control the docks by 3).

Same with the random alleyway that the Sindaccos meetup in when they kidnap Salvatore. I'm a little more iffy on that one, but I still don't feel it. It's right inbetween Leone run garages and Triad HQ.

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This is effectively the high water mark for the Leones. They control 90% of Portland, and are actively trying to take over southern Chinatown if Big Rumble in Little Chinatown is anything to go by.

 

Also, the Sindacco-Leone War that started literally 2 missions in(the one that started over the Sindacco's seizing control of North Chinatown shortly before the events of the game started) has effectively ended. The Sindacco's and Leones fought over Chinatown after the Leones didn't back down, the Leones got JD to turn Judas on the Sindaccos, the Sindaccos tried to attack their gambling house in Saint Marks and gain a street, they failed, Leones blew up The Doll House in retaliation, Sindaccos try to kill Salvatore in retaliation for that, and eventually the big offense takes the Revue Bar. The Leones pushed them out of Portland, Massimo is 'nominally' brokering peace, it's over for now. And the Forelli's have not gone to war with anyone as of yet.

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After Calm Before the Storm, Chinatown in it's entirety has fallen to the Triads.

Diablo's also now spawn in Hepburn Heights on foot and in cars, but so do Leones, they're still putting up a strong fight for that.

 

Now there's two new wars breaking out which continue for the bulk of the game.

Edited by Anywhere USA
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Sindacco Sabotage(dumb name BTW, wouldn't Sicilian Sabotage make more sense? And in that regard, why the heck didn't Toni tell Salvatore the Sicilians set them up, he spied on Massimo, that was the goal there, yet he leaves him in the dark and he ends up blaming the mayor later) has the Diablos, who by this point have mostly overun Hepburn Heights, attempting to push into the North Red Light District and take it over. Toni manages to stop the RLD from falling, but they lose too many guys and holding Hepburn Heights isn't tenable for long.

 

Interesting enough, the Leone's still spawn in Hepburn Heights after this mission(if I recall on my last playthrough they only stop after Driving Mr Leone) so I guess Sal is indeed trying hard not to lose it

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And in The Trouble with Triads, the Triads(who already took all of Chinatown after Calm Before the Storm) destroy the Leone Factory and take Callahan Point.

 

There, the Portland Leg of the story done, that's all I'm doing for now, Staunton is easily the hardest part to figure out and I'm not eager

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Alrighty, since you mentioned I might be of any help, I will give some of my reflections on this stuff only in case I disagree on something or simply want to expand the thread further... Also, I will presume that your research regarding what gangs spawn where and whether it's only gang cars/gang members/both that spawn in a certain district is accurate.

 

First things first, do you do this type of stuff only for GTA LCS or maybe you did it for other installments of the GTA franchise as well? Cause ngl, my knowledge concerning GTA LCS ain't too big compared to GTA 3, Vice City, or San Andreas. I believe I would be more useful in those parts. 

 

On 7/9/2023 at 1:34 AM, Anywhere USA said:

 

 

And then there's Belleville Park. The eastern side of that has spawned everything. Forelli men, Yakuza men, Forelli cars, Yakuza cars. Does that mean they share the territory? Is this a bug because it changes hands later? I know Kazuki lives on the northern edge of the district, but living somewhere does not equal controlling the territory. Asuka seemingly still has her condo, doesn't mean the Yakuza runs Newport. For god sake, the entrance to the area where Claude stayed in 3 has had Both Forelli and Yakuza spawn in the exact same spot. I don't fricking know. The road on the western edge has only ever spawned Yakuza cars for me, but I could have missed something. No guys over there. And I can't really make a solid guess here because the districts to the north and south of it have nobody, and the one to the east is also messy. And there are barely any missions here. Crazy 69s seemingly confirms the actual park proper was Forelli held for most of the game, and thus I guess the east road, but what about the Western and Northern edges? My gut instinct is to give the coastal road to the Yakuza and have it link up their territory in Pike Creek and(presumed territory in) Bedford Point, but I dunno.

 

(BONUS: I found footage of someone failing "Shoot the Messenger" since the dialogue in that mission states the informant is going to meet Franco Forelli and has no clue where he was based. He's based at the Ecoli Restaurante on the border of Fort Staunton and Rockford. This building is completely destroyed near the end of the game which implies Franco Forelli is killed.)

 

 When it comes to the situation in Belleville Park, I think that several factors might be the result of this. First, there might be some districts surrounding Belleville Park that are also "actively" controlled by other gangs. If that's the case, there is a risk that when we leave one territory and move to the other, the game could still remember the place we were before, thus giving the gang from that territory to spawn on the other one for split seconds, it's a bit to how the game memorizes two vehicles used by the player, the current one and the one he used before.

 

If we are going to rule out this option, it's worth taking a look at how some territories were targeted by several gangs at once. For instance, East Los Santos in GTA SA. Even though the area was controlled by the Ballas while looking at the map color and overall spawns of gang members, there are valid arguments suggesting that Los Santos Vagos is also trying to dominate this particular neighborhood. Some of the arguments include 1)Missions such as "OG Loc", "Running Dog", and "Burning Desire" where we witness Vagos being present in East Los Santos; 2)both gang tags of Ballas and Vagos appear in certain alleys. Would I call it "sharing a territory"? In this case, yes. Both gangs have some bigger or lower influence, but presumably, they are not aggressive against each other and might "coexist" (except for whether the gang members would somehow meet each other in free roam, but that's purely the game's mechanic aspect).

 

In turn, we've got the district called Rancho in GTA 5 which belongs to Los Santos Vagos. This time, however, the territory is not "safe" because both the Ballas and the Aztecas are trying to get some piece of Rancho district for themselves. This is evident in how some Ballas and Aztecas gang members tend to spawn in certain parts of the Rancho. This situation kind of implies that the territory is not "shared", but rather it's under constant pressure. 

 

Coming back to your question about whether Belleville Park was "shared" or fought for by the two gangs you brought up, I would personally say it's the latter. Considering how the Yakuza was trying to expand its influence in Liberty City during GTA LCS while the Forellis were slowly losing their territories, mostly due to Toni Cipriani. I will also agree with the saying that "living somewhere doesn't necessarily equal controlling the territory".

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11 hours ago, Anywhere USA said:

Sindacco Sabotage(dumb name BTW, wouldn't Sicilian Sabotage make more sense? And in that regard, why the heck didn't Toni tell Salvatore the Sicilians set them up, he spied on Massimo, that was the goal there, yet he leaves him in the dark and he ends up blaming the mayor later) has the Diablos, who by this point have mostly overun Hepburn Heights, attempting to push into the North Red Light District and take it over. Toni manages to stop the RLD from falling, but they lose too many guys and holding Hepburn Heights isn't tenable for long.

 

Interesting enough, the Leone's still spawn in Hepburn Heights after this mission(if I recall on my last playthrough they only stop after Driving Mr Leone) so I guess Sal is indeed trying hard not to lose it

Very good question, but I have only two possible answers - either one of Rockstar's many oversights or Toni is straight-up stupid, I think it's the first option. 

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Hepburn Heights is a small district so it's hard to rule out the accidentally triggering stuff issue, but I can 100% confirm that after Driving Mr. Leone it's fully Diablo. So I guess the only timeline question is whether or not it's after or before the Triads take Callahan Point. It's 100% after the Triads take Chinatown.

 

So no issues with my Portland stuff?

I should also note I'm doing this on PSP as it's easier to play while doing other stuff. I do have a 100%ed playthrough on PS2, but no earlier save files. Maybe it would be easier to check there, maybe there are differences, i dunnno

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Like I said, Missions take priority generally speaking, there is a lot more intention in them. I know at the very least the park itself is Forelli initially, Crazy 69's shows that and it's backed up by Walk in the Park. But I like to have all the info I can, and unfortunately other than the North most of the neighboring districts are kinda fuzzy. So I'm checking this to be sure.

 

It's also a fact that districts that will eventually change hands seem to have a small chance of spawning the cars anyway in some places, which is probably a bug(most notably in Torrington where there's a small chance of getting a Yakuza car to spawn, especially if you are driving one) so I gotta keep that in mind.

 

Gonna survey the 9 sectors. North, Middle, and South of East Road, Park, and West Road

 

 

Edited by Anywhere USA
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ALL of Belleville Park showed spawns of both gang members, no cars though. I had Forelli's by the bridge entrance and Yakuza on the edge of Newport.

So the two possibilities are either it's disputed territory at this point in time(though with favor to the Forelli's initially as seen in the missions) or the Yakuza spawn is a bug caused by them showing up later in the game there, sorta like the Yakuza Stinger occasionally spawning in Torrington. I'm leaning to the former, but info from the PS2 version about the location would help.

 

Despite extensive waiting and searching, both Bedford and Aspatria are clean. So it's up to missions to solve those, I'll have to watch carefully.

 

That just leaves the Newport Conundrum

 

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Ok, doing it far more cautiously(avoiding crossing between districts as that can cause bugs), the middle line that's backed up by the missions i remember seems pretty much correct. North of that line is Forelli's, south of it is Sindaccos. (It probably should be dead middle of that one road, but eh). Newport is the center of a war between the Sindaccos and Forelli's that breaks out later though, got to keep that in mind.

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Getting all of the Election and Church missions out of the way, McAffrey and Salvatores Missions are the messy part.

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Caught in the Act doesn't tell us anything.

 

Now, to clarify, up until this point I've been doing whole mission chains in order, then the next one unlocked. No flip flopping. Donalds missions came up first, so I did all of them. The church missions came up next, so I did all of those. Now Sal's missions.

The thing is, the phone call after Caught in the Act specifically tells me to stop by Leon FIRST, and then go talk to Salvatore(also Salvatore is just casually wanting to talk, he's not screaming about being in the middle of a hit yet, so chronologically McAffrey coming first makes sense here). So for this part I'm gonna try alternating between Leon and Sal's missions and see if that makes more sense. If not, then I'll go with my usual method.

Also, Franco is in the pocket of the Sicilians and is being forced to cause trouble

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Sayonara Sindacco's is just a massacre that confirms they run Torrington.  And presumably they blame the Forelli's for it given they go to war immediately after.

 

Search and Rescue, now there's a war breaking out between the Forelli's and Sindaccos, Sindacco's attack into Fort Staunton through Newport, but get wiped out by the time Toni gets there.

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Ok, by the time of Whole 9 Yardies, Forelli's control literally the southern tip of Newport. So whether or not this is before Taking the Peace and the like (hard to say, though it would make sense as losing all those men would further weaken the Forellis, again I'm not 100% on the order here) it's definitely after Search and Rescue given the war has to have broken out and the Sindaccos are clearly losing badly

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Taking the Peace is probably before 9 Yardies given that the meeting point is right on the border of Newport and Bellvelle, but regardless also because of that it HAS to be before Crazy 69

Edited by Anywhere USA
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After Crazy 69 the Yakuza take Belleville.

In Living Dreads, the Sindacco's launch a counterattack into Newport, pushing back to the old midline before Toni shows up and bails out the Yardies.

 

And interestingly, Shoot the Messanger shows the north dock and stadium area are in Forelli hands at this point. Does that mean ALL of Aspatria is? Eh, I have my doubts, especially with the warehouse, don't think that could get seized quite so fast, but I'll see.

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After Living Dreads, Yakuza spawn in Torrington spikes massively. Like, to the point I don’t even see any Sindacco’s spawning.

 

They clearly haven’t lost it yet, they have Big Shot [INSERT SPAMTON JOKE] Casino still, but it’s already under threat, which explains why Paulie tries to flee to Las Venturas in Dead Reckoning 

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After Rough Justice, the Hoods seize Wichita Gardens and Southern Cedar Grove.

 

After Dead Reckoning, the remaining Sindacco holdings in Torrington collapse and fall to the Yakuza.

(Also, still at war with the Triads and Diablos after all of this)

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Aspatria does seem to be Yakuza held for a bit. Maybe even Liberty Campus, eh hard to say.

 

I'm actually stopping here because there isn't much Gang change after this. Forelli's mostly get wiped out in the bombing, though they do occasionally still spawn in intact sectors, and the Sicilians get pushed back after a brief takeover attempt.

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Oh, and I didn't mention it earlier, but the Newport Docks never fall to the Yardies in either game. They're initially Forelli held, and later become a Yakuza stronghold.

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So that's it for LCS proper, but with the end of the game, both websites, and...just what I know about what happens in GTA 3, I can mostly tell what happens in the 3 years between games.

1. The Leones re-take Chinatown (probably shortly after the end of the game given all the other issues would finally be out of the way, and hey, Chinatown is what started this whole war to begin with) and hold it until JuNE 2001 when the GTA III website says they lose control of it again to strengthening Triads. They also lose control of the point around that time as the Triads build a fish factory there.

2. After the hostile takeover of the Pan-Lantic Project that happens in Love on the Rocks, the Colombians now effectively run the construction project in Fort Staunton. So once the military secures the site and leaves, the whole area quickly falls under Colombian control as the nearly wiped out Forelli's can't resist. They also take some Yakuza fringe territories in the north in Aspatria.

3. By 1999, facing wipeout by the Cartel, the Forelli's end up unifying with the Leones to survive, becoming a junior branch within the family lead by the surviving Forelli Brothers, put in charge of running a few things(Seemingly Saint Marks Bistro, their old HQ, and Atlantic Quays now that Vinny is out of the picture, if my memories of III are correct). Troubles break out quickly though and by III they're in full scale rebellion.

4. The Hoods end up in a civil war at some point and break up into Red Jacks and Purple Nines.

5. The Yardies eventually have a falling out with the Leones and by the time of 3 are actively working with the Cartel.

6. The Diablos keep Hepburn Heights, but are forced to back off of Harwood and the Red Light District, at least until 3.

7. Pike Creek becomes a lot less firmly Yakuza and in more of a grey area between them and the Cartel by the time of 3.

8. Shortly before 3 the Cartel set up shop in the Harbor on Portland and begin contesting Leone assets in the region.

Edited by Anywhere USA
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4 hours ago, Anywhere USA said:

3. By 1999, facing wipeout by the Cartel, the Forelli's end up unifying with the Leones to survive, becoming a junior branch within the family lead by the surviving Forelli Brothers, put in charge of running a few things(Seemingly Saint Marks Bistro, their old HQ, and Atlantic Quays now that Vinny is out of the picture if my memories of III are correct). Troubles break out quickly though and by III they're in full-scale rebellion.

Quick question over here, what makes you think that the Forellis started working with the Leones exactly in 1999? Because I know that one of LCPD's reports states that the Forellis were indeed working for the Leones, but there is no indication that it happened in 1999, at least in the police report itself. Frankly speaking, I would rather say it happened between 1998-2001 if you don't have arguments for 1999 specifically. (I didn't take GTA Advance into account as I don't know how this conflict continued in 2000). As for the territory, you're correct, the Forellis did take Atlantic Quays which can be further proved by the mission "I Scream You Scream" where they can be found, and thanks to the GTA 3 Design Doc, we do know that this mission was about getting revenge on the Forellis, so it's pretty certain. As for the "full-scale rebellion", totally agree. 

 

4 hours ago, Anywhere USA said:

4. The Hoods end up in a civil war at some point and break up into Red Jacks and Purple Nines.

 

That's actually a common mistake that many players make and even I made it in the past until I started analyzing more this thread. The point is, it's not that the Red Jacks and Purple Nines were created in the "break-up" of Southside Hoods. Quite the contrary, I believe that "Southside Hoods" (or simply Hoods in GTA LCS) was just used as a reference to small Afro-American gangs. I realized this only after Kendl's statement "But the boyfriend from the Southside, wrong?" and when CJ mentioned in the mission "Catalyst" that Tenpenny told every gang in South Central about the train. Of course, it's hard to give more evidence for this particular interpretation, but the only thing I can say more is the fact that the game (more the game booklet really) mentions "Southside Hoods" in the first place. And since it mentions both Southside Hoods and Red Jacks and Purple Nines, I have this feeling that "Southside Hoods" purely stands for a group of Afro-American gangs in LC. 

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8 hours ago, Martin4004 said:

Quick question over here, what makes you think that the Forellis started working with the Leones exactly in 1999? Because I know that one of LCPD's reports states that the Forellis were indeed working for the Leones, but there is no indication that it happened in 1999, at least in the police report itself. Frankly speaking, I would rather say it happened between 1998-2001 if you don't have arguments for 1999 specifically. (I didn't take GTA Advance into account as I don't know how this conflict continued in 2000). As for the territory, you're correct, the Forellis did take Atlantic Quays which can be further proved by the mission "I Scream You Scream" where they can be found, and thanks to the GTA 3 Design Doc, we do know that this mission was about getting revenge on the Forellis, so it's pretty certain. As for the "full-scale rebellion", totally agree. 

 

That's actually a common mistake that many players make and even I made it in the past until I started analyzing more this thread. The point is, it's not that the Red Jacks and Purple Nines were created in the "break-up" of Southside Hoods. Quite the contrary, I believe that "Southside Hoods" (or simply Hoods in GTA LCS) was just used as a reference to small Afro-American gangs. I realized this only after Kendl's statement "But the boyfriend from the Southside, wrong?" and when CJ mentioned in the mission "Catalyst" that Tenpenny told every gang in South Central about the train. Of course, it's hard to give more evidence for this particular interpretation, but the only thing I can say more is the fact that the game (more the game booklet really) mentions "Southside Hoods" in the first place. And since it mentions both Southside Hoods and Red Jacks and Purple Nines, I have this feeling that "Southside Hoods" purely stands for a group of Afro-American gangs in LC. 

I picked 1999 because the GTA III website says there’s been internal conflict for ‘two years.

 

As for the other thing, in LCS the Hoods only ever wear Red garb, so the Purple Nines seemingly aren’t in the picture yet. 

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