Rockstar's vision for the next game

[Kid Named Finger]

Dan Houser once said back in 2012 that with every numbered GTA they wanted to bring something entirely new that changed the trajectory of the series.

 

With GTA IV it was Euphoria physics, with V it was multiple playable characters. What is it this time?

 

Is "significantly move beyond" just a marketing buzzword or might they have anything specific in mind to innovate besides adding in more micro-transactions?

[Paper Mario]

I don't like how playing more than 1 character is "significantly" moving beyond. Sure, I guess it's new to GTA, but remember RDR? After John's dead... It's not an entirely new concept.. But I guess being able to play 3 characters is more than 2 and thus, a significant change or whatever... But yeah, to me, nothing changes to said game when you are able to control a few more characters. In V, they even downgraded the physics as they weren't as good as IV's, but still good here and there. 

 

I really hope to see something new that will totally blow my mind. We've been seeing rumors about better weather, like lightning storms, tornados. i want to see these things and their effect on the world and people. A fully functioning and in depth weather system? now that to me is something to brag about.

[Kid Named Finger]

2 minutes ago, Paper Mario said:

It's not an entirely new concept

Well you can't switch between John and Jack. Switching characters was the big thing according to them. Was it revolutionary? Hell no. 

 

4 minutes ago, Paper Mario said:

A fully functioning and in depth weather system? now that to me is something to brag about.

I think if they put in AI as good as MGS V Phantom pain I'd be very impressed. That game had the best AI imo.

[Paper Mario]

49 minutes ago, Kid Named Finger said:

Well you can't switch between John and Jack. Switching characters was the big thing according to them. Was it revolutionary? Hell no. 

 

I think if they put in AI as good as MGS V Phantom pain I'd be very impressed. That game had the best AI imo.

Ok true, but like you said, nothing revolutionary. Nothing about V was quite revolutionary I'd say. Not that that is a big deal. I mean, it was still the same generation console as IV. There wasn't much difference between GTA 3 and Vice City either, although you could fly and have motorcycles.. 

 

I've never played MGS V Phantom, so I wouldn't know, but I do hope for some impressive A.I. 

[Kid Named Finger]

4 minutes ago, Paper Mario said:

There wasn't much difference between GTA 3 and Vice City either, although you could fly and have motorcycles.. 

 

Oh I agree. But they made the whole game in 9 months, which is ultra impressive imo. I think gta 2 to 3, vc to sa and sa to IV were significant differences. Others not so much. Rdr2 was a big step up from rdr1 too. 

[Nawaf]

Forget what I said. Wrong thread.

Edited February 6 by Nawaf

[Americana]

Working wipers in vehicles.

[Kid Named Finger]

14 minutes ago, Nawaf said:

Forget what I said. Wrong thread.

Easy to do when I never read it

[babydracula]

I think the new “significant” feature for VI will be the large amount of interiors and RDR2 style gameplay. 

[Row x Salvation]

6 hours ago, Paper Mario said:

I don't like how playing more than 1 character is "significantly" moving beyond. Sure, I guess it's new to GTA, but remember RDR? After John's dead... It's not an entirely new concept.. But I guess being able to play 3 characters is more than 2 and thus, a significant change or whatever... But yeah, to me, nothing changes to said game when you are able to control a few more characters. In V, they even downgraded the physics as they weren't as good as IV's, but still good here and there. 

 

I really hope to see something new that will totally blow my mind. We've been seeing rumors about better weather, like lightning storms, tornados. i want to see these things and their effect on the world and people. A fully functioning and in depth weather system? now that to me is something to brag about.

I disagree, playing as 3 protagonists was pretty incredible for the time. Yeah maybe today it isn't as "ground breaking", the game came out originally in 2013 on hardware at that time which wasn't overly capable for something as a massive as GTAV. Somehow Rockstar managed to do it, they implemented an expansive world that felt for the most part extremely immersive,  but to also add the layer of 3 different protagonists that had there own life, dialogue, actions and it not feel artificial but really natural swapping between the 3 so seamlessly was quite amazing (obviously excluding story missions it felt really forced and gimmicky swapping between them).

 

My opinion for there vision for GTAVI is AI and how dynamic they can create it, we see a bit of it in its early stages with RDR 2, which is still incredible but they will 100% expand on that, and the fact they have patented an NPC/AI tech leaves me to believe that is what they are truly trying to make next level.

 

[Kid Named Finger]

2 hours ago, Row x Salvation said:

not feel artificial but really natural swapping between the 3 so seamlessly was quite amazing

Sure, but it was more of a cool gimmick and less of an innovation that "significantly moved beyond the previous games". 

[Frabbi 01]

Recently replayed GTA4, and I can tell you that 5 is light years ahead in every way.

 

I want to say 6 will have AI as its innovation, but I think whatever they've done is probably already outdated because of ChatGPT and other generative AI.

And even that will be even more outdated once we see further exponential advancement this year.

[Kid Named Finger]

16 minutes ago, Frabbi 01 said:

5 is light years ahead in every way.

Worse AI

Worse Physics

Worse shooting

Worse story

Worse driving 

Worse hand to hand combat

Emptier map with lesser interiors

Less likeable characters

 

In a game about killing stuff, driving stuff and going places, when the combat sucks, the driving sucks and the map is empty, that's a sign that the game might not be light years ahead of the prequel that did all these things way better. No number of planes and good graphics will compensate for any of this.

 

21 minutes ago, Frabbi 01 said:

I want to say 6 will have AI as its innovation, but I think whatever they've done is probably already outdated because of ChatGPT and other generative AI.

What the f*ck are you on about? If you want chatGPT level AI for GTA games it would either have to become a completely online game like flight simulator which constantly needs an internet connection to stream data or they'd have to make the game 5TB and require you to have a 100k pc to run it. Games don't have chatGPT level AI because they need extremely beefy hardware to run.

[Frabbi 01]

1 minute ago, Kid Named Finger said:

Worse AI

Worse Physics

Worse shooting

Worse story

Worse driving 

Worse hand to hand combat

Emptier map with lesser interiors

Less likeable characters

The AI is kind of on par? It's negligible though. The 5 npcs definitely have more random things they say when you get near them. Not worse, but not much better.

Physics and driving are terrible in 4. Cars are slow and heavy, have little braking power, and slide like 20 miles when you try to turn. Also the helicopters were so much harder to control.

Shooting is also much faster and responsive in 5. And youre not stuck with only 5 different weapons.

The story in 4 was boring as hell. 5 is no masterpiece, but it was way more fun. Going with no contest on that, as this is entirely subjective.

Hand to hand combat is again negligible. Honestly though it's not that good in most games to begin with.

4 had a way smaller map, and there's like a total of 20 interiors maybe? Half of them are restaurants. The gun shops, convenience stores, and clothing stores in 5 alone outnumber everything in 4. Then you have all the online (if you count online) "separate map" interiors, like 10 apartments, the bunker, facility, arena, casino, nightclubs, all the mc businesses.

Was going to at least give you the characters of all things.... but no. Can't even do that. Aside from Roman, the characters in 4 were boring and forgettable. Still think 5 is better than 4 in ALL of those categories.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Kid Named Finger said:

In a game about killing stuff, driving stuff and going places, when the combat sucks, the driving sucks and the map is empty, that's a sign that the game might not be light years ahead of the prequel that did all these things way better. No number of planes and good graphics will compensate for any of this.

 

What the f*ck are you on about? If you want chatGPT level AI for GTA games it would either have to become a completely online game like flight simulator which constantly needs an internet connection to stream data or they'd have to make the game 5TB and require you to have a 100k pc to run it. Games don't have chatGPT level AI because they need extremely beefy hardware to run.

No single player AI is going to have an always connected GPT level AI, which is why my exact combination of words was:

"whatever they've done is probably already outdated because of ChatGPT," whereas "whatever they've done" refers to a "frozen in time, scripted, limited" AI (think GTA5 but they just say a lot more based on your basic actions).

Nowhere did I say I WANT that level of AI in game. Online? In the future? Sure, one day it will be possible.

So I'm comparing an upcoming limited AI, to something live and out of game. When other people compare these things, the game AI will seem less alive. Not that it won't be good, because I'm sure it will.

 

[BloxedRetro]

12 hours ago, Kid Named Finger said:

Switching characters was the big thing according to them. Was it revolutionary? Hell no. 

Switching Characters feels alot like a spin-off type idea. Maybe one off in the main campaigns however generally relegated to being the selling point of one title. For example, MK Double Dash didn't make the future of Mario Kart titles depend on Dual Racers. Most people want it back however just as a side-mode or something. Truth is, stuff like that can't be the main feature or one of them, more-so something that is a little bonus. Maybe DLC?

[FamousActor_]

Hard to see how they're going to bring something as innovative as IV's realistic physics or V's multiple characters switching. Probably the best they are capable of doing, at this point, is to apply some of RDR2 mechanics into GTA (and that's good enough for me).

[Kid Named Finger]

3 hours ago, Frabbi 01 said:

The AI is kind of on par? It's negligible though. The 5 npcs definitely have more random things they say when you get near them. Not worse, but not much better.

Literally just standing 4 feet close to a cop (no weapon equipped) gives you a wanted level. If you try walking/running away from that they literally shoot you to death. 

 

NPCs could literally just do the most minor crime and they'll have police helicopters chasing after them and cops with shotguns shooting at them. In GTA IV they'd get arrested, taken into the nearest police car and driven to the station. I tried following a cop who arrested an NPC once and they actually headed to the station. 

 

3 hours ago, Frabbi 01 said:

Physics and driving are terrible in 4

This is the worst video game take I've ever heard in my 14 years on the internet. Gta IV has bad physics? What crack are you smoking bro?

 

3 hours ago, Frabbi 01 said:

And youre not stuck with only 5 different weapons.

I remember in vice City where you had to pick and plan out exactly what guns you wanted to use for certain missions and all that planning added an element of creativity to the game that was exceptionally lacking in GTA V, where you had the entire US army weapons stock in your back pocket.

 

3 hours ago, Frabbi 01 said:

Aside from Roman, the characters in 4 were boring and forgettable

That's certainly a controversial take. I thought Vlad, Brucie ,the Mcrearie family, Florian, the Ul paper guy, Faustin , Dimitri  Manny escuela and even side characters like playboy X, mallorie were all great characters, much better than Sanandreas, vice City, V and even Red dead 1 for that matter. But hey, just my opinion.

 

3 hours ago, Frabbi 01 said:

whatever they've done is probably already outdated because of ChatGPT," whereas "whatever they've done" refers to a "frozen in time, scripted, limited"

That's like people being disappointed that a TI 89 scientific calculator can't run Minecraft because it's "too limited" .Video game AI is very very very very different from consumer ready AI like chatGPT or Google's Lambda project. If you come from a mathematics background I'd recommend going through R* 's AI patents for GTA VI that they filed back in 2019-2020. You'll understand what they're going for.

 

Look man all of this comes down to personal taste, but one thing I can't understand is not liking the physics from GTA IV. That's like ordering a hamburger but wishing they'd replace the beef with broccoli. 

Edited February 6 by Kid Named Finger

[Len Lfc]

15 hours ago, Kid Named Finger said:

Dan Houser once said back in 2012 that with every numbered GTA they wanted to bring something entirely new that changed the trajectory of the series.

Do you have a link to a direct quote for that? I remember it, too. But I've NEVER been able to track it down.

[Kid Named Finger]

6 hours ago, Len Lfc said:

Do you have a link to a direct quote for that? I remember it, too. But I've NEVER been able to track it down.

Original comment is from 2006-2007 from a popular news site, so Kotaku or IGN I guess?

 

I'll try running an advanced search for that time period.

[Dick Justice]

I really hope this interesting thread doesn’t devolve into yet another IV vs V moan thread. All the conversations have been had. 
 

Anyway, to answer the topic. I think the big change will be in the way the player interacts with the world. Interactions in previous GTA games have more or less boiled down to shooting, and SA and V both had a fairly bland positive/negative response system. I expect VI will expand on RDR2’s dialogue system. We should be able to greet, antagonise, threaten and rob people - as well as carry out conversations during random events that occur regularly across the map. 
 

On top of this you have the Cool vs Chaos and the Romantic vs Pragmatic meters. How the player interacts with the world throughout the story will change the trajectory of the characters themselves. IV briefly played with the idea of choices having consequences, but everything was very binary. I suspect the story in VI will play out differently based on how the player characters act. 
 

All of this is a very natural progression from things already accomplished in RDR2. Is it revolutionary? I’m not sure. If done well, probably. 

[Super Grunt 281]

The kind of stuff that Duke Nukem 3D developers at the time could think of, you can interect with things in that game that have no pratical purpose.

 

Same with choices having consequences, it can go back as far as Perfect Dark (for all I know) and some games run on it such as Dishonored and it's 'chaos' (some are still choice specific and not low/high chaos) .

 

Upping the AI would be something if confined to GTA, it always sucked.

[wise_man]

The Romantic-Pragmatic stuff. We have two protagonists but now we can decide the direction of their relationship (that will affect gameplay and story). Keep it professional if you don't like an intimate Bonnie-Clyde dynamic.

[MaddenedGhost]

16 hours ago, Frabbi 01 said:

The AI is kind of on par? It's negligible though. The 5 npcs definitely have more random things they say when you get near them. Not worse, but not much better.

Physics and driving are terrible in 4. Cars are slow and heavy, have little braking power, and slide like 20 miles when you try to turn. Also the helicopters were so much harder to control.

Shooting is also much faster and responsive in 5. And youre not stuck with only 5 different weapons.

The story in 4 was boring as hell. 5 is no masterpiece, but it was way more fun. Going with no contest on that, as this is entirely subjective.

Hand to hand combat is again negligible. Honestly though it's not that good in most games to begin with.

4 had a way smaller map, and there's like a total of 20 interiors maybe? Half of them are restaurants. The gun shops, convenience stores, and clothing stores in 5 alone outnumber everything in 4. Then you have all the online (if you count online) "separate map" interiors, like 10 apartments, the bunker, facility, arena, casino, nightclubs, all the mc businesses.

Was going to at least give you the characters of all things.... but no. Can't even do that. Aside from Roman, the characters in 4 were boring and forgettable. Still think 5 is better than 4 in ALL of those categories.

 

 

 

No single player AI is going to have an always connected GPT level AI, which is why my exact combination of words was:

"whatever they've done is probably already outdated because of ChatGPT," whereas "whatever they've done" refers to a "frozen in time, scripted, limited" AI (think GTA5 but they just say a lot more based on your basic actions).

Nowhere did I say I WANT that level of AI in game. Online? In the future? Sure, one day it will be possible.

So I'm comparing an upcoming limited AI, to something live and out of game. When other people compare these things, the game AI will seem less alive. Not that it won't be good, because I'm sure it will.

 

Duude you did not have to walk all over GTAIV like thaaaat, some people in this section of the forums aren't ready for these kinds of conversations 

Edited February 7 by MaddenedGhost

[fftlate]

I don't think there'll only be one point that will make GTA VI stand out. However, the weather system is the one that will be remembered. For the "significantly move beyond" part, they'll have to combine the weather system with the way AI and the world react it. As a whole, it'll be way more immersive than any previous R*'s games.

[Len Lfc]

17 hours ago, Kid Named Finger said:

Original comment is from 2006-2007 from a popular news site, so Kotaku or IGN I guess?

 

I'll try running an advanced search for that time period.

Yeah, A while ago, I came to that conclusion, too. But I could still never track it down  

[Leonida Man]

15 hours ago, Len Lfc said:

Yeah, A while ago, I came to that conclusion, too. But I could still never track it down  

There are a lot of interviews of those years that are simply gone. Broken links, webs that don't exist no more... It is a big shame and makes the issue of internet data preservation and why there isn't an archive thing going on because some of the things Houser says are really insightful.

Most I could find was this horrible transcript of this interview with Dan that says something similar-but-not-quite about making advances, and some things that could explain why he left in 2020

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dan-houser-interview-the-cut-scene.746487/

"DH: Ummm, no we're pretty good about that. We always regarded the success of GTA as having bought us the freedom to do what we want creatively and a responsibility to not milk it." 

[Len Lfc]

29 minutes ago, Leonida Man said:

There are a lot of interviews of those years that are simply gone. Broken links, webs that don't exist no more... It is a big shame and makes the issue of internet data preservation and why there isn't an archive thing going on because some of the things Houser says are really insightful.

Most I could find was this horrible transcript of this interview with Dan that says something similar-but-not-quite about making advances, and some things that could explain why he left in 2020

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dan-houser-interview-the-cut-scene.746487/

"DH: Ummm, no we're pretty good about that. We always regarded the success of GTA as having bought us the freedom to do what we want creatively and a responsibility to not milk it." 

Here's an archived link for that interview

https://web.archive.org/web/20080421173255/http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_scene/2008/04/dan-housers-ver.html

[DODI3OG]

R* filed a patent for self-learning video game AI. Not sure if it's really self-learning, but I'm sure a patent doesn't mean they'll really implement it.

 

The AI in GTA V didn't have some of GTA IV's traits such as some models using raincoat and umbrellas when it's raining, but specific AIs spawned depending on the time of day and they also had their own schedules such as working during work hours, travelling to and from work, and some are even seen walking around residential areas wearing their uniforms (construction workers and cleaners in East LS, some suit and tie in South LS).

 

If the patent was implemented (which I highly doubt it will see the light of day during this generation, since the AI in the leaks don't seem to be self-learning), then we'll probably see pedestrians react to the player in different levels depending on our notoriety. This is already in RDR and RDR2, but their responses are more scripted than actually learned.

[Spider-Vice]

25 minutes ago, DODI3OG said:

since the AI in the leaks don't seem to be self-learning

This is a strange statement to make considering the game is likely still at a point in development where these systems wouldn't be fully implemented, and we have not seen enough of the game's AI (meaning, pedestrians, looking at their actual paths, routines, etc.) to be able to conclude any of this.

 

This would be something that you would only notice by scrutinising it in the final game. After all it is a patent, it's R&D R* are doing and it may not necessarily be in GTA VI day one, but it may in some form, and it's not something we'd be able to judge from early dev leaks!  

[rebeldevil]

I don't think we're gonna see any super-advanced AI in GTA VI.

 

The thing about GTA is, it's doing so many different things at once it's very much a Jack-of-all-trades. It can do a little of everything, but nothing particularly great. And that's fine, when you get down to it. As the full saying goes, "Jack of all trades, master of none, but still better than a master of one".  Because we've all played games like THAT, the one trick ponies that do that one thing really really well, but fall flat in many other areas.  

 

You look at all the different kinds of games GTA is trying to be at the same time-- a driving game, a shooting game, a flying game, a retro arcade game, a sports game, an RPG..none of these things are going to be standouts, if for no other reason than the company hasn't got the resources to make them better than they are. They have a limited amount of people and a limited amount of time to get this done, so "good enough is good enough".