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Beta RDR1 ped/npc Jack


GuiCORLEONEx794

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GuiCORLEONEx794

So, a while ago i remember i found that Jack's npc texture had his classic 1914 red striped bandana and a hat.

I also noticed there was a lot of other stuff underneath the texture that weren't used. 

Looking in the Undead Nightmare files, i found a ped named blackwaterkid that not only has some resemblance to 16 year old Jack but also uses the same exact textures, and it's obvious that final version Jack reused those textures but with a few edits and a lot of new stuff over it.

 

This ped is only in UN.

 

Here is 16 year old Jack as we see in the game: 

 

JackSonmorehair.png 

 

 

This is blackwaterkid:

 

misc_blackwaterkid_alphakill_d1.png 

 

A comparison: 

 

ezgif-5-5906c63f80.gif

 

Playable Jack;

JackMarston_default_outfitwithhair2.png?

 

 

Now the model:

 

image.png?width=815&height=473

image.png?width=746&height=473

image.png?width=752&height=473

 

 

 

You can see the model is not exactly finished as it has some weird textures on his shoulder. 

 

Now i have three theories for this:

 

1- This is not beta Jack, it's in fact a beta ped that was cut and they reused his model for John's son, and edited the model and the textures for it.

 

2-This is beta Jack, but under a different name. Not all RDR1 peds have obvious names, for example, Bill is "firstoldfriend", Javier is "secondoldfriend", Dutch is "nemesis", npc Jack is "son", Bonnie is "rancherdaughter" etc. Maybe Jack's name was "blackwaterkid" but later was changed.

 

3- This is beta Jack and this model was repurposed into a new ped, and possibly slightly altered, or maybe not altered at all. The bandana being used in player_jack could be a giveaway that npc Jack was meant to use that same bandana and that adult Jack wearing it was a callback from those times, but eventually the beta npc Jack version with that bandana was cut. Also you can see this model still uses the beta textures and UVs for the eye and teeth/tongue models, showing that it's quite an old model.

 

Either way, it's clear that npc Jack's textures were made after this ped's texture.

 

Edited by GuiCORLEONEx794
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Sanctuary II
22 hours ago, GuiCORLEONEx794 said:

So, a while ago i remember i found that Jack's npc texture had his classic 1914 red striped bandana and a hat.

I also noticed there was a lot of other stuff underneath the texture that weren't used. 

Looking in the Undead Nightmare files, i found a ped named blackwaterkid that not only has some resemblance to 16 year old Jack but also uses the same exact textures, and it's obvious that final version Jack reused those textures but with a few edits and a lot of new stuff over it.

 

This ped is only in UN.

 

Here is 16 year old Jack as we see in the game: 

 

JackSonmorehair.png 

 

 

This is blackwaterkid:

 

misc_blackwaterkid_alphakill_d1.png 

 

A comparison: 

 

ezgif-5-5906c63f80.gif

 

Playable Jack;

JackMarston_default_outfitwithhair2.png?

 

 

Now the model:

 

image.png?width=815&height=473

image.png?width=746&height=473

image.png?width=752&height=473

 

 

 

You can see the model is not exactly finished as it has some weird textures on his shoulder. 

 

Now i have two theories for this:

 

1- This is not beta Jack, it's in fact a beta ped that was cut and they reused his model for John's son, and edited the model and the textures for it.

 

2-This is beta Jack, but under a different name. Not all RDR1 peds have obvious names, for example, Bill is "firstoldfriend", Javier is "secondoldfriend", Dutch is "nemesis", npc Jack is "son", Bonnie is "rancherdaughter" etc. Maybe Jack's name was "blackwaterkid" but later was changed. The bandana being used in player_jack could be a giveaway that npc Jack was meant to use that same bandana and that adult Jack wearing it was a callback from those times,  but eventually the beta npc Jack version with that bandana was cut. 

 

Either way, it's clear that npc Jack's textures were made after this ped's texture.

 

Amazing find! I always wanted for more RDR1 Beta content to be found, which the hunt has always been limited compared to other big Rockstar games, for obvious reasons. Do you have any more finds? I'd love to see post some of the other unused/cut stuff you may have found.

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GuiCORLEONEx794
5 minutes ago, TheMadTitan said:

Amazing find! I always wanted for more RDR1 Beta content to be found, which the hunt has always been limited compared to other big Rockstar games, for obvious reasons. Do you have any more finds? I'd love to see post some of the other unused/cut stuff you may have found.

 

I did find some more stuff a while ago but since i didn't post most of them before i don't remember where they are, but some of them i posted here

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Sanctuary II
38 minutes ago, GuiCORLEONEx794 said:

 

I did find some more stuff a while ago but since i didn't post most of them before i don't remember where they are, but some of them i posted here

I checked it out. Thank you, great finds too.

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undergroundvicious

This could become the "The Red Dead Redemption Beta Hunt" hehe

 

I've always wondered if the beta John's face and the Marshall Uniform were still in the game files. I've heard about a bow too. The double bandolier is on the game, accessible by glitching the Bandito Outfit (IIRC this was found by you too, right?).

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GuiCORLEONEx794
5 hours ago, undergroundvicious said:

This could become the "The Red Dead Redemption Beta Hunt" hehe

 

I've always wondered if the beta John's face and the Marshall Uniform were still in the game files. I've heard about a bow too. The double bandolier is on the game, accessible by glitching the Bandito Outfit (IIRC this was found by you too, right?).

 

Most of John's beta content was completely, cut, so you don't have John's marshall uniform or the bureau outfit for example. Jack's marshall outfit texture still has the sheriff badge but unused, and John Marston's face normal map still has the beta hairline, and that hairline was used later by Red Harlow's RDR1 MP model. Also about the Bandito outfit, i did find the model but i doubt i was the first one to find it as people has been glitching it for years. I also think the bandito outfit wasn't necessarily cut, but maybe they f*cked up something during development so the bandito only spawned with one bandolier, nobody knows though.

 

This is what happens if you give John Red Harlow's hairline, which is reused from beta John:

image.png

image.png?width=842&height=473

 

 

It doesn't look right because this John wasn't meant to have this hairline, but it fits earlier versions of John's face, plus the hair looks obviously different from beta cuz all i did was erase the strings on his forehead with texture editing

 

image.png

image.png

 

(This is also the hairline you see in most of his artworks)

Edited by GuiCORLEONEx794
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undergroundvicious
7 minutes ago, GuiCORLEONEx794 said:

Most of John's beta content was completely, cut, so you don't have John's marshall uniform or the bureau outfit for example. Jack's marshall outfit texture still has the sheriff badge but unused, and John Marston's face normal map still has the beta hairline, and that hairline was used later by Red Harlow's RDR1 MP model.

 

This is what happens if you give John Red Harlow's hairline, which is reused form beta John:

 

It doesn't look right because this John wasn't meant to have this hairline, but it fits earlier versions of John's face, plus the hair looks obviously different from beta cuz all i did was erase the strings on his forehead with texture editing

 

(This is also the hairline you see in most of his artworks)

Really nice finds! I never noticed those details. I always thought there were a good amount of cut content and beta files on the game's folders - and we were unable to check them because of the lack of tools.

 

Only a few things were discovered, like the mission for Mother Superior, and the Dwarf/Giant one. Really cool to see you bringing up this stuff, like the models, textures, etc. 

 

Are there any unused stuff on the map? I remember some differences shown on the gameplay trailer/retail release, like the Cassino on a steam boat on Blackwater.  There are some stuff here too - posted here:

 

JkRlyiB.png

 

aDEGvbN.png

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Cool find! Heres a few pre release screenshots posted by someone in 2017 that was shared here some years ago, but probably some who hasnt seen them

https://imgur.com/uA0R84b
https://imgur.com/J6UMMlZ

https://imgur.com/wkkbjt4

https://imgur.com/0ynSeM5

https://imgur.com/NLdZfEU

https://imgur.com/iosEC3X

https://imgur.com/GoOGsX5

Edited by Jisoo
spelling
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GuiCORLEONEx794

Its seems that Ross and Fordham were meant to be at the boat in Exodus in America:

 

image.png?width=428&height=473

 

If you watch the intro in the final version of the game they are nowhere to be seen, and it is implied that they were waiting for John at the docks. The game doesn't show John meeting them and when the camera turns back to John after he leaves the boat he is already with both agents

 

Btw why doesn't the guy on the right have hands?

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2 hours ago, GuiCORLEONEx794 said:

Btw why doesn't the guy on the right have hands?

He's a veteran

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undergroundvicious
6 hours ago, GuiCORLEONEx794 said:

Its seems that Ross and Fordham were meant to be at the boat in Exodus in America:

 

image.png?width=428&height=473

 

If you watch the intro in the final version of the game they are nowhere to be seen, and it is implied that they were waiting for John at the docks. The game doesn't show John meeting them and when the camera turns back to John after he leaves the boat he is already with both agents

 

Btw why doesn't the guy on the right have hands?

Did you get him on the cutscene by editing files or just cam hack?

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GuiCORLEONEx794
2 hours ago, undergroundvicious said:

Did you get him on the cutscene by editing files or just cam hack?

It's a screenshot release by Rockstar games before the game was released

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On 1/10/2023 at 3:03 PM, GuiCORLEONEx794 said:

 

Btw why doesn't the guy on the right have hands?

He was born that way :_(

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undergroundvicious

Found on Reddit, Dutch has a detailed dead model - even if the player can't see it ingame (kinda creepy lol)

 

Spoiler

iBczQo9.jpg

 

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On 1/14/2023 at 4:24 AM, undergroundvicious said:

Found on Reddit, Dutch has a detailed dead model - even if the player can't see it ingame (kinda creepy lol)

 

  Hide contents

iBczQo9.jpg

 

Maybe dutch was meant to die differently

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undergroundvicious

CabooseSaysWTF was able to "restore" two cut guns ingame:

 

 

Edited by undergroundvicious
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  • 1 month later...
On 1/28/2023 at 1:21 PM, undergroundvicious said:

CabooseSaysWTF was able to "restore" two cut guns ingame:

 

 

When you browse the game files, you will also find files for a Bow and dual wield weapons.

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undergroundvicious
1 hour ago, AnymYo said:

When you browse the game files, you will also find files for a Bow and dual wield weapons.

It would be really nice to restore these weapons ingame…

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On 1/20/2023 at 5:30 PM, jacqueks said:

Maybe dutch was meant to die differently

Or his head smashed against a rock. The first thing I did back then was to look for dutchs body after he fell. Never found it :/

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universetwisters
On 1/13/2023 at 8:24 PM, undergroundvicious said:

Found on Reddit, Dutch has a detailed dead model - even if the player can't see it ingame (kinda creepy lol)

 

  Hide contents

iBczQo9.jpg

 

Would this have been for the Zombie DLC?

sTgL5iS.png

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3 hours ago, universetwisters said:

Would this have been for the Zombie DLC?

He looks too human and not rotten so I guess no

4 hours ago, AnymYo said:

Or his head smashed against a rock. The first thing I did back then was to look for dutchs body after he fell. Never found it :/

It doesn't really seem like a head smash tho maybe theoretically in the beta, john is forced to duel with dutch on the cliff, john's deadeye would activate and canonically john would shoot dutch in the head regardless of where the player shot dutch

Edited by jacqueks
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undergroundvicious
On 3/26/2023 at 1:16 PM, universetwisters said:

Would this have been for the Zombie DLC?

Since it is not rotten, I don’t think so. But it would be so cool to have him on DLC, I was expecting him the first time I played Undead.

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On 1/14/2023 at 4:54 AM, undergroundvicious said:

Found on Reddit, Dutch has a detailed dead model - even if the player can't see it ingame (kinda creepy lol)

 

  Hide contents

iBczQo9.jpg

 

 

Here you go, enjoy the nightmares:

Spoiler

TlruG4E.png

noIjJs8.png

B1Sm8EC.png

Funny enough, he is called "nemesis" in the game files, and Javier and Bill are named "oldfriend". Some characters are named like this, Abigail is called "wife" and Bonnie is called "ranchersdaughter". They probably didn't name these characters by the time their models were finished? not sure.

 

And on the topic of Bonnie, she has fully modeled booba, beware, NSFW stuff:

Spoiler

VCsPvxj.png

 

Maybe something darker was going to happen rather than her just getting hanged, probably Rockstar had to dial it back.

 

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undergroundvicious
21 minutes ago, LennyH said:

 

Here you go, enjoy the nightmares:

  Hide contents

TlruG4E.png

noIjJs8.png

B1Sm8EC.png

Funny enough, he is called "nemesis" in the game files, and Javier and Bill are named "oldfriend". Some characters are named like this, Abigail is called "wife" and Bonnie is called "ranchersdaughter". They probably didn't name these characters by the time their models were finished? not sure.

 

And on the topic of Bonnie, she has fully modeled booba, beware, NSFW stuff:

  Hide contents

VCsPvxj.png

 

Maybe something darker was going to happen rather than her just getting hanged, probably Rockstar had to dial it back.

 

Nice finds! Is it possible to spawn them ingame?

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10 hours ago, undergroundvicious said:

Nice finds! Is it possible to spawn them ingame?

Yeah, with a trainer I guess you can.

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  • 3 months later...

Dutch looking this way is simply a result of his fall. Such a height caused a lot of velocity and I guess he hit his face which caused that part to literally explode. These things happen, believe it or not.

 

However on that matter I did read some things about Dutch's death were changed. Notably he has some strange lines if you manage to hogtie him via cheats and notice how he's wounded when you corner him by the cliff, yet he really isn't when you pursue him. I also read somewhere you originally had a choice to shoot or spare him as well? I don't really remember anymore...

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"Let death take my enemies by surprise; let them go down alive to the grave, for evil finds lodging among them."

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  • 2 weeks later...

When you break into Dutch's fortress and he welcomes you with a minigun, he's positioned right besides a gas lamp that appears highlighted when you use Dead Eye.

 

If you shoot, it doesn't do anything to Dutch even though he's very close to it. You need to shoot all 4 of those lamps to make his platform catch on fire to make him get out of the minigun and proceed with the mission

 

Maybe I think Dutch was originally going to die there, with the lamp blowing up half of his face and he ends up looking like that.

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  • 4 months later...
undergroundvicious

CaboosesayzWTF brought some nice info on his last video, beta zombie Marston has been found on X360 files:

 

 

Plus, screens he provide with 2 beta zombies:

 

1.png

 

2.png

Edited by undergroundvicious
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undergroundvicious

Sorry for the double post, just to add some more stuff.

 

Probably this is old news, but since I didn't find much info about it, I've decided to bring it to the thread.

 

According to the trailer "Gameplay Series: Life in the West", the steamboat Morningstar in Blackwater would feature a floating casino:

 

WS6ghQX.jpg

 

In the final version, the boat only appears in the game's first scene; as soon we do the first mission, it disappears from the map. 

 

However, using a trainer on the Switch version during the very first mission, I was able to take a good look on the boat, including its leftovers:

 

Az5gL9M.jpg

 

NTuiY2x.jpg

 

uvlbLEg.jpg

 

TDdNaUN.jpg

 

 

Edited by undergroundvicious
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