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What would it take for Rockstar to add most DLC vehicles in SA traffic?


Teal

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...Besides "diminishing Shark Card sales."

 

Now that we are in 2023 with GTA Online also within the year, I am surprised after so long, we are still seeing the same traffic from 2013. Not even the vehicles between Beach Bum to LTS Update appear regularly, if at all

 

I know mods exist for the PC to put these vehicles into the cargrp file with little to no errors or bugs, but I believe Rockstar should officially release an update that implements a majority of civilian vehicles into the SA traffic.

 

Personally, seeing a these vehicles from a Dominator GTX to a Chino Custom in the streets being driven by NPC's would give this game a huge breath of fresh air and make the game feel even more alive.

 

 

Edited by Teal
Grammar and more detail.
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You know that you can drive new vehicles in the editor? I think it's not about sharkcards, just lazyness. Most of the DLC cars are too highend for NPC traffic anyways, I had rather wished NPC traffic done from scratch for the next gen release with more mediocre or even sh*tty contemporary cars.

Edited by Aquamaniac
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10 minutes ago, Aquamaniac said:

You know that you can drive new vehicles in the editor? I think it's not about sharkcards, just lazyness. Most of the DLC cars are too highend for NPC traffic anyways, I had rather wished NPC traffic done from scratch for the next gen release with more mediocre or even sh*tty contemporary cars.

 

I have not used the Editor in a while. How so?

 

If anything, leave the over-the-top vehicles like the Ceberus, Zhaba and Vigilante as player-owned only. Supers can spawn very rarely or in missions. Vehicles like the Kanjo SJ, Sentinel Classic and Kamacho can spawn regularly.

 

In the past, someone had said "because of glitching vehicles", but I think since 2016, DLC vehicles were already a part of many freemode events and missions. Nowadays, methods to glitch those vehicles are mostly patched.

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40 minutes ago, Teal said:

 

I have not used the Editor in a while. How so?

 

 

 

I mean the race editor, you create a race or start creating a race, then you select standard class and standard car then you start a test drive, you can select any car available (some weaponized vehicles aside), works with aircraft too.

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14 minutes ago, Aquamaniac said:

 

I mean the race editor, you create a race or start creating a race, then you select standard class and standard car then you start a test drive, you can select any car available (some weaponized vehicles aside), works with aircraft too.

 

Oh, I had known that since the Heists Update lol. I used to spawn the Savage.

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Marciliojunior01

There is no point on doing such change other than "its cool".

The develoment time to select which cars should stay and which cars shouldn't, where they spawn and which rate they spawn does not seem to be something rockstar can afford, even less now with the online staff reduced. You might argue half this data is already scripted into the cars, and you are right, but everything would have to be tweaked again for the game to work properly with 30 people in a lobby overwriting each others spawn groups. 

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3 hours ago, Marciliojunior01 said:

There is no point on doing such change other than "its cool".

The develoment time to select which cars should stay and which cars shouldn't, where they spawn and which rate they spawn does not seem to be something rockstar can afford, even less now with the online staff reduced. You might argue half this data is already scripted into the cars, and you are right, but everything would have to be tweaked again for the game to work properly with 30 people in a lobby overwriting each others spawn groups. 

 

I have a couple questions and by no means am I saying you are wrong or being condescending:

 

1. Where did you hear that the online staff was reduced?

 

2. How would each of the vehicles and their current spawning code affect the spawn groups for each player?

 

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Marciliojunior01
11 minutes ago, Teal said:

 

I have a couple questions and by no means am I saying you are wrong or being condescending:

 

1. Where did you hear that the online staff was reduced?

 

2. How would each of the vehicles and their current spawning code affect the spawn groups for each player?

 

1 - Gta 6 is in mid to late development stage, as proven from the recent leaks, the game needs more devs than never to polish, debug, create new textures, vehicles, animations etc. The two latter dlcs have been much smaller in scale compared to 2021, vehicles coming recently to the game are most likely backports from gta 6. 

2 - They wouldn't in this way, the thing is that these cars are not meant to spawn regulary, and there is no guarantee that they would not cause issues unless extensively tested, which rockstar does not seem to want to do.  

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11 hours ago, Marciliojunior01 said:

There is no point on doing such change other than "its cool".

The develoment time to select which cars should stay and which cars shouldn't, where they spawn and which rate they spawn does not seem to be something rockstar can afford, even less now with the online staff reduced. You might argue half this data is already scripted into the cars, and you are right, but everything would have to be tweaked again for the game to work properly with 30 people in a lobby overwriting each others spawn groups. 

I really do not feel upgrading popgroups is as complicated as people make it seem. It's not. And regardless of how many cars you add to the selection, the spawn variety (which is ultimately what taxes the system and requires more vram to be allocated) is left untouched unless you change it (which wouldn't be done for Online unlike it can in SP or via settings.xml via upping the vehiclevarietymultiplier). If the equivalent to the vehiclevarietymultiplier is left alone for GTA:Online, then I'd argue that there wouldn't be an issue. Every car Rockstar does has LODs and, I've tested, if you add a huge selection of cars with LODs to popgroups and leave vehiclevarietymultiplier alone, the game runs pretty much the same.

 

Additionally, most DLC cars already have adequate/consistent spawnfrequency/maxnum values as well as carvariations that were given an awful lot of attention considering they were never set to spawn by default. GTA V on One/PS4/PC received a substantial popgroups update compared to the vanilla version of the game, with no apparent issues. So I fail to see what the problem would be now? And considering the way Rockstar does things, several high-end cars would never be set to spawn just like several vanilla exotics (Cogonoscenti Cabrio, etc).

 

I understand companies operate in mysterious and complex ways, but I find it hard to believe it would be too much to ask or even that taxing for them to update a popgroups file.

Edited by ddarko12
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What would it take for Rockstar to add most DLC vehicles in SA traffic?
A financial incentive, it's R*.

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HamwithCheese

Besides the technical issues I can't comprehend, I think it'd be discouraging for a new player to walk into GTA online and 90 percent of traffic cars being "too hot to store". You can walk up and steal a guys C Class coupe or Maserati Cabrio but absolutely no Civics. Too hot.

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MIller-Meteor

This question has always been a mystery for me. 

 

First, GTAO is like a "database" of a regularly updated parallel universe, adapted for our time. I don't even know if at this point we can associate this game with the idea of what a metaverse is, but it's at least very close to it.

We should underline the way how players-creators are proposing themselves their panels of cars for the game, and it's fascinating because it will never end, and that's why I love this game, because there is a whole culture to build with what we got.

 

The thing is, I don't know if R*/decision makers are seeing the things as I describe it here with the same level of involvement. Because if it was the case, they would have added at least some vehicles in the traffic at least one time or two since the start of the game, which is not the case. They had big opportunities with the 2014 edition and the E&E launches.

It's more important than we may realize, because the state of the traffic got a big role to play with the immersion effect between the game and the evolution of the cars in our world. And this idea comes in the same time with the story of the online mode that is evolving, with the characters getting older, etc. It's common sense.

 

I do want to see Raidens in the traffic for example, because Tesla is everywhere nowadays. Or some XLS, Buffalo STX, Sugoi... And let's be honest, there are a lot of cars in their catalog that do not attract the players. It's okay to say that they deserve to regain some visibility.

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On 1/7/2023 at 9:32 AM, ddarko12 said:

I really do not feel upgrading popgroups is as complicated as people make it seem. It's not. And regardless of how many cars you add to the selection, the spawn variety (which is ultimately what taxes the system and requires more vram to be allocated) is left untouched unless you change it (which wouldn't be done for Online unlike it can in SP or via settings.xml via upping the vehiclevarietymultiplier). If the equivalent to the vehiclevarietymultiplier is left alone for GTA:Online, then I'd argue that there wouldn't be an issue. Every car Rockstar does has LODs and, I've tested, if you add a huge selection of cars with LODs to popgroups and leave vehiclevarietymultiplier alone, the game runs pretty much the same.

 

Additionally, most DLC cars already have adequate/consistent spawnfrequency/maxnum values as well as carvariations that were given an awful lot of attention considering they were never set to spawn by default. GTA V on One/PS4/PC received a substantial popgroups update compared to the vanilla version of the game, with no apparent issues. So I fail to see what the problem would be now? And considering the way Rockstar does things, several high-end cars would never be set to spawn just like several vanilla exotics (Cogonoscenti Cabrio, etc).

 

I understand companies operate in mysterious and complex ways, but I find it hard to believe it would be too much to ask or even that taxing for them to update a popgroups file.

I had installed "World of Variety" back in 2018 which added DLC vehicles up to the Doomsday Heist to traffic and I had no issues. I even installed the IV car pack with still no issues.

 

If Rockstar was willing to make a jump to 2017 in Gunrunning, they should at least touch the popgroups to update the traffic. I feel like that would keep the fans since they are noting that they are keeping LS with the current times.

10 hours ago, SuperHeichou said:

This question has always been a mystery for me. 

 

First, GTAO is like a "database" of a regularly updated parallel universe, adapted for our time. I don't even know if at this point we can associate this game with the idea of what a metaverse is, but it's at least very close to it.

We should underline the way how players-creators are proposing themselves their panels of cars for the game, and it's fascinating because it will never end, and that's why I love this game, because there is a whole culture to build with what we got.

 

The thing is, I don't know if R*/decision makers are seeing the things as I describe it here with the same level of involvement. Because if it was the case, they would have added at least some vehicles in the traffic at least one time or two since the start of the game, which is not the case. They had big opportunities with the 2014 edition and the E&E launches.

It's more important than we may realize, because the state of the traffic got a big role to play with the immersion effect between the game and the evolution of the cars in our world. And this idea comes in the same time with the story of the online mode that is evolving, with the characters getting older, etc. It's common sense.

 

I do want to see Raidens in the traffic for example, because Tesla is everywhere nowadays. Or some XLS, Buffalo STX, Sugoi... And let's be honest, there are a lot of cars in their catalog that do not attract the players. It's okay to say that they deserve to regain some visibility.

 

The Raidens and Sugois. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen Teslas and Civics (both sedan and hatchbacks) everywhere, even in rural areas 

23 hours ago, HamwithCheese said:

Besides the technical issues I can't comprehend, I think it'd be discouraging for a new player to walk into GTA online and 90 percent of traffic cars being "too hot to store". You can walk up and steal a guys C Class coupe or Maserati Cabrio but absolutely no Civics. Too hot.

 

The game actively promotes these vehicles in SSASA and LM. We had complained in the past of not storing the Infernus and Bullet when the game came out, but that did not phase Rockstar.

Edited by Teal
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Marciliojunior01
3 hours ago, Teal said:

I had installed "World of Variety" back in 2018 which added DLC vehicles up to the Doomsday Heist to traffic and I had no issues. I even installed the IV car pack with still no issues.

 

If Rockstar was willing to make a jump to 2017 in Gunrunning, they should at least touch the popgroups to update the traffic. I feel like that would keep the fans since they are noting that they are keeping LS with the current times.

 

The Raidens and Sugois. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen Teslas and Civics (both sedan and hatchbacks) everywhere, even in rural areas 

 

The game actively promotes these vehicles in SSASA and LM. We had complained in the past of not storing the Infernus and Bullet when the game came out, but that did not phase Rockstar.

What is ssasa and lm supposed to mean ? 

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4 hours ago, Teal said:

I had installed "World of Variety" back in 2018 which added DLC vehicles up to the Doomsday Heist to traffic and I had no issues. I even installed the IV car pack with still no issues.

Yeah, tbh I was trying to be a little conservative on the approach they should take in my post but for me I have...

- all IV cars

- hundreds of lore cars/edits (with LODs) from VW and many other creators

- all DLC cars up to Drug Wars (minus concepts/uber rare classics)

- all vanilla cars not originally included

 

...all included my popgroups (ofc properly adjusted for rich/mid/poor/freeway/country/etc). And my vehiclevarietymultiplier is set to 5.5x which a lot of times means there can be roughly 20 different individual models spawning at once. I also play max settings 1440p. And quite frankly, rarely experience crashes.

 

There was a time when I did, that was back before I understood the importance of LODs and would blindly add LOD-less cars to my popgroups. Driving through the city was hell and led to crashes a few times a day. Once I removed all of them, the problem solved itself and the game and frames ran much, much smoother as well. I'd argue the game is pretty well optimized for diverse traffic especially with strictly LOD-having cars and lower vehiclevarietymultiplier values. I haven't yet played with popcycles but I think that opens up a whole nother can of worms.

Edited by ddarko12
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HamwithCheese
10 hours ago, Teal said:

The game actively promotes these vehicles in SSASA and LM. We had complained in the past of not storing the Infernus and Bullet when the game came out, but that did not phase Rockstar.

Not exactly sure where you're going with this but I'll reiterate that new players would look at something that should be attainable and common (civics and challengers for example) and finding out there's not as much "freedom" and "immersion" they think there's is in their open world sandbox game. 

 

R* didn't even update the traffic for the "expanded and enhanced" version of single player, so asking them to update the traffic for 5 different versions of their game seems way to much for them, even if it an easy job, which it probably is.

 

They obviously just don't care.

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As long as they keep getting their money, they dont give a crap about the community wishes or the quality in general.

Look at the most recent dlc - Its a big lazy middle finger and people (including myself) still play this modder filled glitchfest.

 

E&E is a joke from what I saw, and people still pay for that. They simply pulled a "skyrim" on everybody on next-gen.

 

So... traffic variety? Maybe in GTAO2 / GTA6.

But definitely not here unless at least 50% of the playerbase decides to leave.

Edited by Schuimpruim
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Marciliojunior01
1 hour ago, Schuimpruim said:

As long as they keep getting their money, they dont give a crap about the community wishes or the quality in general.

Look at the most recent dlc - Its a big lazy middle finger and people (including myself) still play this modder filled glitchfest.

 

E&E is a joke from what I saw, and people still pay for that. They simply pulled a "skyrim" on everybody on next-gen.

 

So... traffic variety? Maybe in GTAO2 / GTA6.

But definitely not here unless at least 50% of the playerbase decides to leave.

If the playerbase leaves collectively they will just increase the payment on cayo for a month and boom, everyone is back. 

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11 hours ago, Marciliojunior01 said:

What is ssasa and lm supposed to mean ? 

 

SSASA: Southern San Andreas Super Autos

 

LM: Legendary Motorsport

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4 hours ago, HamwithCheese said:

Not exactly sure where you're going with this but I'll reiterate that new players would look at something that should be attainable and common (civics and challengers for example) and finding out there's not as much "freedom" and "immersion" they think there's is in their open world sandbox game. 

 

What I had meant is that when the high-end vehicles were not able to be stored, players b*tched at Rockstar because it is "gRaNd tHeFt AuTo". Even they had thought it limited freedom and immersion.

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10 hours ago, ddarko12 said:

There was a time when I did, that was back before I understood the importance of LODs and would blindly add LOD-less cars to my popgroups.

 

Do tell more about importance of LOD's and vehicles. I may take a note with this.

 

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6 minutes ago, Teal said:

 

Do tell more about importance of LOD's and vehicles. I may take a note with this.

 

I don't know the exact specifics, but for example say a car model has 70-90k polys. Well if you have a bunch of cars spawning like that, even in the distance, it'll cause performance issues and even crashes (even if your computer can handle it). LODs are usually way lower poly and there can be like 3 different versions I think. Cars in the distance often tend to be the lowest quality and look like low res boxes. Well... when you add cars without LODs to your popgroups, they'll spawn far away full-res. I find if it's a car that has a very low maxspawn then it doesn't wreck havoc. But if it's a common car, yeah it'll cause crashes.

Edited by ddarko12
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7 hours ago, ddarko12 said:

I don't know the exact specifics, but for example say a car model has 70-90k polys. Well if you have a bunch of cars spawning like that, even in the distance, it'll cause performance issues and even crashes (even if your computer can handle it). LODs are usually way lower poly and there can be like 3 different versions I think. Cars in the distance often tend to be the lowest quality and look like low res boxes. Well... when you add cars without LODs to your popgroups, they'll spawn far away full-res. I find if it's a car that has a very low maxspawn then it doesn't wreck havoc. But if it's a common car, yeah it'll cause crashes.

 

So that may explain the crashes I had with a particular mod. I had downloaded a DLC traffic mod and every larger vehicle that would spawn in crashed the game. Removing those as well as lessening the spawn density prevented crashes.

 

This was before I had downloaded WoV and IVPack. Do you remember which vehicles did not have LOD's?

Edited by Teal
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2 hours ago, Teal said:

Do you remember which vehicles did not have LOD's?

I think most stuff by VanillaWorks and in the IVpack has LODs, I know any time they don't people rightfully bitch about it (and yeah I know it's a pain but, especially if it's a normal car, people want to put it in traffic). I know most of John Doe's stuff doesn't, so I can't stick stuff like his 90's Oracle in my traffic unfortunately. Usually most mods with LODs say it in the title or description. If not, it's a gamble. A lot of other creators do not bother with them. My way of checking is compare the .yft and hi_.yft in OpenIV. If the .yft shows the same number of polys as hi_.yft then I think it doesn't have them.

Edited by ddarko12
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  • 1 year later...

Bumping the thread if that is allowed. I strongly believe the DLC cars in traffic needs some attention.

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Aquamaniac
On 2/11/2024 at 12:50 AM, Teal said:

Bumping the thread if that is allowed. I strongly believe the DLC cars in traffic needs some attention.

 

I doubt that R* changes NPC traffic at this point. But I noticed that in The Contract and Drug Wars at least the AI enemies used DLC vehicles, they don't do in the recent DLC? The yet unreleased Terminus had fitted the Duggans well.

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2 hours ago, Aquamaniac said:

 

I doubt that R* changes NPC traffic at this point. But I noticed that in The Contract and Drug Wars at least the AI enemies used DLC vehicles, they don't do in the recent DLC? The yet unreleased Terminus had fitted the Duggans well.

 

I think they have been using DLC vehicles as far back as Further Adventures in Finance & Felony.

 

During the Duggan Robbery, didn't they also use the Cavalcade XL?

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Aquamaniac
1 hour ago, Teal said:

 

I think they have been using DLC vehicles as far back as Further Adventures in Finance & Felony.

 

During the Duggan Robbery, didn't they also use the Cavalcade XL?

 

Now that you mention it, maybe.

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Technically there is nothing stopping them from adding cars to Online's traffic.

 

Here's proof: I added some DLC cars to the traffic and went into GTA O 👇

 

hlzGmIpAHU8I.png

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So why haven't they done it officially?

 

First and most likely reason is that R* finds it an unnecessary "burden" on game memory to have the game load more varied traffic, atleast with the PS4 and XB1 versions. It already needs to keep track of up to 30 player's different vehicles + other individual service/business/event vehicle spawns. We've already seen how they've decided to remove clip recording from those versions of the game due to memory issues.

 

Corroborating this theory is the way they've configured traffic in the first place:

 

Currently in the game's files, traffic groups have 2 entries: one for Single Player, and one for Online (example: "VEH_POOR" and "VEH_POOR_MP" for vehicles that spawn in poorer zones of the map). The MP groups usually have a slightly fewer amount of vehicles in them + no entries for vehicles that were added to SP traffic in PS4/XB1 like the Huntley, Glendale, Rhapsody, Furore GT, etc.). I also believe the game purposely reduces traffic variety anyway somehow in Online, but I haven't tested this properly.

 

 

Secondly, I also believe they want the vehicles added with updates to stand out in traffic or during missions/events, thus adding to their appeal or such.

 

Also someone had joked about the DLC vehicles being "too hot" to store, which IMO could also be another reason why they haven't bothered with spawning them in traffic :D

 

 

With E&E they probably could've gone back and redone them (like they sort of did with the PS4/XB1 release), but oh well.

 

Edited by Dock
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ForDer089

^^Right. most DLC cars have bigger file size and the traffic codes were made around 2013(or earlier), so Old Gen GTAO won't be able to handle more cars.

 

Traffic files in my PC GTA5 data have more than 150 different cars and bikes with no game crashing issue, but the game seems crashes randomly if I add 10 more cars.

So if Rockstar decide to add DLC cars on Current Gen, they'll have to delete some old cars from traffic.

 

(lots of pics!)

Spoiler

 

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Edited by ForDer089
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