Vehicle Handling and Physics

[BloxedRetro]

15 hours ago, suicidehummer said:

I've been going back through older driving games and without question, the Driver series had the best handling balance between realism and arcade.

 

In fact, I think Rockstar may have been inspired by Driver's handling for IV. Think about it; Driv3r came out around the same time as SA, but the graphics and physics were more like IV. It made SA's Renderware physics look embarrassing by comparison.

 

They just needed to tighten the turning radius of most cars and IV would have been perfect. Sadly, I doubt they will ever go back in that direction after all the hate IV got.

 

 

What? Where did you hear that?

 

Just judging from Beta screens. Had the UI from TBOGT so figured they just built V off of that at first before making changes.

On 2/3/2023 at 2:20 AM, PsyWarVeteran said:

V's driving is terrible, every car feels heavy and slow. Hitting other cars feels like hitting a brick wall. Also, terrible car deformation.

IV's driving was much, much better but a tiny bit too much. Not every car needs to be THAT slippery. Fantastic car deformation.

 

The new GTA needs to bring back the "bounciness" of IV's cars, the great deformations but also make everything a bit tighter and easy to control while turning.

The Super Drop Diamond from TBOGT had the perfect balance of handling imo. It felt more arcady than the other cars however definitely kept the overall physics style of the rest of the cars. I wouldn't mind if cars controlled like that. I would prefer going back to IV's physics as a whole but hey, at least this way everyone is somewhat satisfied.

[suicidehummer]

1 hour ago, BloxedRetro said:

Just judging from Beta screens. Had the UI from TBOGT so figured they just built V off of that at first before making changes.

The Super Drop Diamond from TBOGT had the perfect balance of handling imo. It felt more arcady than the other cars however definitely kept the overall physics style of the rest of the cars. I wouldn't mind if cars controlled like that. I would prefer going back to IV's physics as a whole but hey, at least this way everyone is somewhat satisfied.

The Super Drop Diamond is actually the evidence that they already had made the handling more acradey by then. That thing was awful, it drove like a featherweight toy when it was supposed to be a Rolls Royce, which notoriously weigh a metric f*ckton. The real car it's based on weighs almost 6,000 lbs.

[DODI3OG]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:20 AM, PsyWarVeteran said:

V's driving is terrible, every car feels heavy and slow. Hitting other cars feels like hitting a brick wall. Also, terrible car deformation.

IV's driving was much, much better but a tiny bit too much. Not every car needs to be THAT slippery. Fantastic car deformation.

 

The new GTA needs to bring back the "bounciness" of IV's cars, the great deformations but also make everything a bit tighter and easy to control while turning.

I agree with you on these. But, I don't think GTA V's cars feel heavy and slow, I think that's GTA IV's trait. I think GTA V's cars are too light. I hope we get improved gyro driving this time.

[rebeldevil]

I think somewhere between IV and V is the sweet spot. Most cars roll, squat, and dive more IRL than they do in GTAV, but even sportscars roll around like grandpa's Buick in GTAIV. Neither of those are good.

[44Orca]

Will be its own unique one, and far closer to how real life cars handle/their physics than both plus it will be a lot of fun.

And no, IV was not realistic with vehicle handling no idea where people got that from, cars in real life don't handle like that lol except if it's very sharp turns for some specific cars, IV for some physics and car damage it did have something good there yes.

I think V was closer in terms of handling but all of them felt like they were racecars as others said..

Edited February 15 by 44Orca

[FollowTheMoney]

I really enjoyed the weight of IV cars, everything felt like it had a lot more impact and punch . Like hitting into obstacles actually felt like proper collisions. But the inability to turn tightly, even at low speeds, did become a bit of a nuisance at some points. Especially when trying to correct yourself during a chase after a crash. V wasn't too bad control wise but I never felt there was really any risk in cocking something up. Id get a wee dent on a panel and that was that, straight back into the action.

 

I think a good balance would be closer to IV's physics and deformability/ weight but give the cars more grip and tighten up the suspension. I don't want my hand held driving (Like rotating in air and being able to just roll my car back over if I land on my roof) but there needs to be that controllability.

 

I would also hope it changes from vehicle to vehicle. EG- a 1980's Willard or Albany should have the massive amounts of body roll in corners that we see in IV whereas the Annis 300R would need to lean more towards that sharp and responsive driving of V.

Edited February 15 by FollowTheMoney
Spelling

[Pedinhuh]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:13 PM, suicidehummer said:

I've been going back through older driving games and without question, the Driver series had the best handling balance between realism and arcade.

Driver: Parallel Lines even had almost fullly customizable suspension upgrades with adjustable ride height and shock absorbers.

 

Like seriously, in terms of arcadish driving physics that game was the GOAT, Test Drive Unlimited coming up right behind it.

 

If they decide to make the driving physics based on that, I will have no need to buy any other racing game ever again.

[Paper Mario]

I've been replaying Vice City after beating GTA 3, and what I noticed is that I had lots more funny moments where I laughed during cop chases for examples. Why? Due to cars literally colliding so hard, they go flying! sh*t's hilarious.

 

I don't think I want to see super realism in that sense.. Why replicate real life exactly? I see people complain about cars rolling over too much, go into the air way too much etc, whereas I am like "but that sh*t is crazy hilarious looking at times". Why dumb the game down for realism? I already hate lame sh*t they did in V with cars exploding on impact in certain angles.. 

 

Just make it fun. Have the vehicles control somewhat in between IV and V, and have the physics be a bit loose, fun. Not so grounded to damn reality... I realized by playing GTA 3 and Vice City just how much I miss these more crazy physics of past games. 

[BTubbs200]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:02 PM, DexMacLeod said:

I've always felt Rockstar is never really trying to be an arcade driver or a simulation, they're going for more of "cinematic" driving style. They're trying to recreate epic movie chases more than anything and I think they generally get that right. GTA IV was going for a more old school 60s/70s style car chase look which is why every single vehicle had that ridiculous amount of lean/sway every time you so much as changed lanes at any speed. V was going for more of modern style with more focus on precision driving and ridiculous jump (hence the lack of weight and ability to control the car mid-air).

 

In my opinion they nailed both styles of movie driving pretty damn well 

I’ve actually never considered things from this perspective, that’s a really nice bit of insight. 
 

As for my opinion I really enjoyed GTA 4’s damage model, so much that even to this day I’ll hop on for a couple hours and just play around crashing into cars and other shenanigans because the physics engine is flexible enough for very amusing things to happen constantly. This is something that was absolutely lost in 5, cars became bricks of steel that didn’t crumple or budge the slightest during crashes. 
 

Like others have said, an opinion on 4’s driving mechanics can be picked apart and labeled good or bad but I hope in 6 we at least return to 4’s damage model, if not even better. 

Edited February 15 by BTubbs200

[Americana]

Grand Theft Auto V has one of the worst vehicle handlings in any modern video game, so let's hope it's nothing like that.

 

Only Watch Dogs 2 is worse.

Edited February 15 by Americana

[flnyla]

I find myself enjoying both V and IV's handling! I would love a mix between the two. From what I've seen so far though, it looks to be very similar to GTA V. However, for the end product, I'm sure it will feel a bit different and hopefully for the better! 

[Tez2]

With the gaming industry push into accessibility and Rockstar making future titles more data-driven, I honestly wish they would let us adjust the vehicle handling physics at our will.

 

The best solution to satisfy both ends of the "GTA IV vs V" debate since it centers around values, parameters and variables of the game functions and physics simulation.

Edited February 16 by Tez2

[Jason]

I mean it'd work for single player I suppose, but it'd never work for online lol.

[Exsanguination]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:13 PM, suicidehummer said:

I've been going back through older driving games and without question, the Driver series had the best handling balance between realism and arcade.

 

In fact, I think Rockstar may have been inspired by Driver's handling for IV. Think about it; Driv3r came out around the same time as SA, but the graphics and physics were more like IV. It made SA's Renderware physics look embarrassing by comparison.

 

They just needed to tighten the turning radius of most cars and IV would have been perfect. Sadly, I doubt they will ever go back in that direction after all the hate IV got.

 

 

What? Where did you hear that?

 

“How could Refractions mess up so bad?”

 

”Tanner, you suck ass!”

[DexMacLeod]

I've been playing a lot of GTA V again and it's been really hard to get into the driving after years of Forza Horizon. It's really easy to lose control but not in a way that feels natural at all. The cars are so light that any time you hit so much as a tiny bump the tires leave the road and all control is gone.

One thing I thought while playing, though, is that the 1st person mode would be absolutely nauseating with GTA IV's body roll. The whole camera would just constantly be tilting 30+ degrees to one side or the other.

 

I still think V is the best base for them to start with on VI. They just need to up the customization aspect. Giving us the ability to convert a car from front-wheel drive to rear or all wheel, different tire choices that actually impact grip, and some way to control under/over steer would be a helluva start. That along with giving the cars some weight.

 

On 2/15/2023 at 5:01 PM, Americana said:

Grand Theft Auto V has one of the worst vehicle handlings in any modern video game, so let's hope it's nothing like that.

 

Only Watch Dogs 2 is worse.

 

Not that it's a competition but I think worst driving's gotta go to Ghost Recon: Wildlands. It's been so long since I've played it that I can't even accurately describe how bad it is but that game very quickly became a fast travel game for me. Watch Dogs 2, though, that wasn't even the worst handling in a Watch Dogs game.  

 

[MrBreak16]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:01 AM, Americana said:

Grand Theft Auto V has one of the worst vehicle handlings in any modern video game, so let's hope it's nothing like that.

 

Only Watch Dogs 2 is worse.

You should see the vehicle handling in Just Cause 3 and Just Cause 4. Straight up painful

[Exsanguination]

I wouldn’t call either IV or V’s handling bad. I like that car handling changes by installment it’s one of those neat things that makes each game unique. IV’s handling fit perfect for that atmosphere and map IMO and the crash deformation was superior.

For VI, I like the ideas mentioned above about an intermediate between IV and V’s handling. 
 

Some cars are really fun to drive on GTAO. I had a blast with the tuners cars stanced. I also enjoy arcadey style street racing along with the option to drift so the tuners update kind of hit a home run with me. 

[flnyla]

9 hours ago, Exsanguination said:

I wouldn’t call either IV or V’s handling bad. I like that car handling changes by installment it’s one of those neat things that makes each game unique. IV’s handling fit perfect for that atmosphere and map IMO and the crash deformation was superior.

For VI, I like the ideas mentioned above about an intermediate between IV and V’s handling. 
 

Some cars are really fun to drive on GTAO. I had a blast with the tuners cars stanced. I also enjoy arcadey style street racing along with the option to drift so the tuners update kind of hit a home run with me. 

See the crash deformation is another thing that is important! GTA V's crash deformation imo is awful. I really hope they go the right direction with that. 
Like in V, wheels can fall off vehicles, but it rarely if not ever happens during an accident. If GTA 6 is going a realistic direction with inventory/items/weapons you can carry, police response times and interactions, they must offer way better deformation to really bring it home. 
However, I could see them being like "oh we want it to be more casual for people who cant drive for ****" and make it like GTA V's. That would suck. 

[Paper Mario]

1 hour ago, flnyla said:

See the crash deformation is another thing that is important! GTA V's crash deformation imo is awful. I really hope they go the right direction with that. 
Like in V, wheels can fall off vehicles, but it rarely if not ever happens during an accident. If GTA 6 is going a realistic direction with inventory/items/weapons you can carry, police response times and interactions, they must offer way better deformation to really bring it home. 
However, I could see them being like "oh we want it to be more casual for people who cant drive for ****" and make it like GTA V's. That would suck. 

People who can't drive for sh*t should be required to pass their driving exams in real life first. 

[DexMacLeod]

10 hours ago, flnyla said:

However, I could see them being like "oh we want it to be more casual for people who cant drive for ****" and make it like GTA V's. That would suck. 

 

Yeah, it's an unfortunate side effect of having such a massive budget. You've got to appeal to the widest audience possible to make up for it. My hope is that that's where armor comes in. No armor and your car gets pretty easily destroyed, full armor and it's like a tank.

 

I'm also hoping there's also trade offs for various upgrades. More armor means more weight and lower top speeds/acceleration, maxed out engine makes steering and breaking more difficult, etc. 

[slowmo2zomo]

On 2/15/2023 at 6:01 PM, Americana said:

Grand Theft Auto V has one of the worst vehicle handlings in any modern video game, so let's hope it's nothing like that.

 

Only Watch Dogs 2 is worse.

the way the vehicles physics interact with eachother is pretty terrible for rockstars standards. Theres no way a truck booking it down a highway should come to a complete halt because it hits some asshole in his minicooper. And for the trucks in GTAO that do have better strength when it comes to collisions w other vehicles, it seems too exaggerated and comes off as an after thought. Driving is Los Santos is like driving in an alternate reality where you dont need to adhere to the laws of physics

[gunziness]

one thing they could implement in VI is having different parameters for the handling of each vehicle between SP and Online, to fit the needs of each 'tittle'. Or even simplifying things from SP to make things more smooth or playable in Online, depending on what R* aims at. This could be said about other aspects about the game aswell.

Edited February 18 by gunziness

[DexMacLeod]

1 hour ago, gunziness said:

one thing they could implement in VI is having different parameters for the handling of each vehicle between SP and Online, to fit the needs of each 'tittle'. Or even simplifying things from SP to make things more smooth or playable in Online, depending on what R* aims at. This could be said about other aspects about the game aswell.

Why would they have different handling lines for Single player and Online? That'd be incredibly annoying for people who play both.

[gunziness]

21 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

Why would they have different handling lines for Single player and Online? That'd be incredibly annoying for people who play both.

I wouldn't bet most people play both SP and Online at the same time consistently, I see it nowadays as two separate communities even, but that's just me though.

Maybe i didn't express myself correctly, but what i meant in general in that certain parameters or features could differ or sightly differ but as a whole, considering that the type of missions, activities and racing between V SP and Online is vastly different nowadays.

It would make sense for cars in SP, as an example, to show better deformation, or parts to detach more easily in order to keep with the 'realism' and immersion while in Online, to keep things more practical, cars could more robust and strong as it currently is in order to keep them functional with the constant chaos and difficulty from some of missions that Online currently offers. In other words, expand on things like how flying thru the windshield is less prone to happen in Online than in SP, or not having to adapt certain mechanic to work for both SP and Online but to fine tune it for each tittle for convenience, this way both ends don't have to suffer from certain limitations that shouldn't have.

[slowmo2zomo]

rockstars obsession w taking away control from the player is annoying. Its so incessant and their worst offense is in rdr2 but i just hate how even getting tires popped by the most accurate heli gunman literally causes the car to turn itself and the player having no say in the matter

[Paper Mario]

56 minutes ago, slowmo2zomo said:

rockstars obsession w taking away control from the player is annoying. Its so incessant and their worst offense is in rdr2 but i just hate how even getting tires popped by the most accurate heli gunman literally causes the car to turn itself and the player having no say in the matter

Have you ever driven a car that had its wheels popped?

[michalxm]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:35 AM, 44Orca said:

Will be its own unique one, and far closer to how real life cars handle/their physics than both plus it will be a lot of fun.

And no, IV was not realistic with vehicle handling no idea where people got that from, cars in real life don't handle like that lol except if it's very sharp turns for some specific cars, IV for some physics and car damage it did have something good there yes.

I think V was closer in terms of handling but all of them felt like they were racecars as others said..

Seriously people that say 4s handling is realistic haven’t ever driven a real car and seem to get stuck in this echo chamber of “5 too arcadey” 

 

notice how 99% of people dogging on 5 use the same exact word with “arcadey?” They’re just copying eachother, no original thought 

 

5s physics aren’t that bad, the crappier cars have a good amount of body roll, it seems “aRcAdEy” cause we’re always driving super cars with sh*t tons of downforce

 

6 should do it’s own thing, but thankfully it won’t be close to 4

 

also some other things:

 

if 5s driving was so terrible then gta online wouldn’t have taken off the way it did, 5s physics are the foundation to every dlc added over the years and if players hated driving they wouldn’t have played it. Seriously think about how much of that game is driving.

 

in MY opinion, 4s driving makes replays almost unbearable, it’s fun until you realise you’ll have to play the rest of the game like that. The scripted car chases were the worst thing I’ve ever had to do in a GTA game. Seriously with all the twists and turns slowing you down so much I could’ve just chased the dude on foot faster

Edited February 19 by michalxm

[Paper Mario]

22 minutes ago, michalxm said:

Seriously people that say 4s handling is realistic haven’t ever driven a real car and seem to get stuck in this echo chamber of “5 too arcadey” 

 

notice how 99% of people dogging on 5 use the same exact word with “arcadey?” They’re just copying eachother, no original thought 

 

5s physics aren’t that bad, the crappier cars have a good amount of body roll, it seems “aRcAdEy” cause we’re always driving super cars with sh*t tons of downforce

 

6 should do it’s own thing, but thankfully it won’t be close to 4

 

also some other things:

 

if 5s driving was so terrible then gta online wouldn’t have taken off the way it did, 5s physics are the foundation to every dlc added over the years and if players hated driving they wouldn’t have played it. Seriously think about how much of that game is driving.

 

in MY opinion, 4s driving makes replays almost unbearable, it’s fun until you realise you’ll have to play the rest of the game like that. The scripted car chases were the worst thing I’ve ever had to do in a GTA game. Seriously with all the twists and turns slowing you down so much I could’ve just chased the dude on foot faster

Uhm... Call it a hunce, but perhaps the reason people call it "arcadey" is because it is. Why describe it other than that? Sorry, but that's a silly take, lol

 

I've been driving my car since 2013 and I still liked IV's driving physics a lot better than V's. V is not all too bad, but too ARCADEY (omg, there is that word again, run everyone!). 

 

I agree that for VI however, they should make it its own thing. Take all the good things from IV and V and morph that into VI and beyond.

[slowmo2zomo]

1 hour ago, Paper Mario said:

Have you ever driven a car that had its wheels popped?

yes and it didnt cause my steering wheel to abruptly turn 90% into the median of a highway. have you?

[Paper Mario]

34 minutes ago, slowmo2zomo said:

yes and it didnt cause my steering wheel to abruptly turn 90% into the median of a highway. have you?

Ok, now I am questioning your driving skills since you've been driving with popped wheels. I myself have never, lol. I am actually GOOD at driving, ya see?