Vehicle Handling and Physics

[grulag]

After spending hundreds of hours modding GTA IV as of recent, if there's one thing i can hope for it's that we don't see another 'physics' nerf like the one that is in GTA V. The way the cars and physics, collisions all work is such a huge downgrade from IV to V. Even just pedestrians and ragdoll in general, IV just has such a better 'feel' to it, it's a lot of the appeal to me for IV.

 

[PolandMountain]

1 minute ago, grulag said:

After spending hundreds of hours modding GTA IV as of recent, if there's one thing i can hope for it's that we don't see another 'physics' nerf like the one that is in GTA V. The way the cars and physics, collisions all work is such a huge downgrade from IV to V. Even just pedestrians and ragdoll in general, IV just has such a better 'feel' to it, it's a lot of the appeal to me for IV.

Physics can be nerfed even more than they are nerfed in V? I guess it's good because minus and minus gives plus.

(This topic is really fragile, better not talk about GTA IV , and yes I know what you meant, I am only joking)

[lngtrw]

15 minutes ago, grulag said:

After spending hundreds of hours modding GTA IV as of recent, if there's one thing i can hope for it's that we don't see another 'physics' nerf like the one that is in GTA V. The way the cars and physics, collisions all work is such a huge downgrade from IV to V. Even just pedestrians and ragdoll in general, IV just has such a better 'feel' to it, it's a lot of the appeal to me for IV.

 

I am kinda glad they downgraded the driving physics, cuz I am dogsh*t at controlling those vehicles in GTA IV. I'd rather take the damned cab  wish Rockstar kept it the same or almost the same, but please, no GTA IV driving, it's such a buzzkill 

 

Idk how can anyone even enjoy that one tbh

Edited January 4 by lngtrw

[Edward RDRIII]

1 hour ago, lngtrw said:

I am kinda glad they downgraded the driving physics, cuz I am dogsh*t at controlling those vehicles in GTA IV. I'd rather take the damned cab  wish Rockstar kept it the same or almost the same, but please, no GTA IV driving, it's such a buzzkill 

 

Idk how can anyone even enjoy that one tbh

The best option is a balance between GTA 4 and GTA 5, GTA 4's handling may be harder than some real life vehicles to be honest and GTA 5's handling looks like you're driving a toy.

[Zapper]

23 minutes ago, Edward RDRIII said:

The best option is a balance between GTA 4 and GTA 5, GTA 4's handling may be harder than some real life vehicles to be honest and GTA 5's handling looks like you're driving a toy.

 

I believe that R* will aim for a driving model that favours fluid, arcadey controls first and foremost rather than something simulational. The huge GTAO racing scene in particular will surely influence that decision. Same for on-foot controls. You can see in the leaks that the looting and movement speed are noticeably faster than RDR2's.

[Edward RDRIII]

25 minutes ago, Zapper said:

 

I believe that R* will aim for a driving model that favours fluid, arcadey controls first and foremost rather than something simulational. The huge GTAO racing scene in particular will surely influence that decision. Same for on-foot controls. You can see in the leaks that the looting and movement speed are noticeably faster than RDR2's.

GTA 5's handling is too arcade for my taste, regardless of GTA Online's races.

[Sword_of_Dusk]

3 minutes ago, Edward RDRIII said:

GTA 5's handling is too arcade for my taste, regardless of GTA Online's races.

I have no issues with it, but I really hope the handling of VI is more of a middle ground between IV and V.

[loops]

8 minutes ago, Sword_of_Dusk said:

I have no issues with it, but I really hope the handling of VI is more of a middle ground between IV and V.

something with flair but not too over abundant in turning and drifting

[Edward RDRIII]

50 minutes ago, Sword_of_Dusk said:

I have no issues with it, but I really hope the handling of VI is more of a middle ground between IV and V.

I didn't say I have issues with it, I simply don't like it and want GTA 6's handling to be at least a little more realistic, it don't need to be as realistic as GTA 4's though.

[SoldierBoy]

Really hope the handling is much more like IV than V.

[DexMacLeod]

Car physics seems to be a pretty tough nut to crack. GTA is better at it than any other game in the genre but both IV and V are still pretty bad in this department. Every vehicle in IV is overly heavy with way too much understeer and GTA V just went way too far in the opposite direction with it. GTA VI needs to employ both ends of the spectrum and everything in between where appropriate. In the end, we know the game's going to have a wide spectrum of vehicles and I just want those vehicles to feel as varied as they should. That's something I don't think they've ever really gotten right.

 

I don't believe they're ever trying to be "realistic", though. If they are they've failed miserably every time. I've always felt Rockstar is never really trying to be an arcade driver or a simulation, they're going for more of "cinematic" driving style. They're trying to recreate epic movie chases more than anything and I think they generally get that right. GTA IV was going for a more old school 60s/70s style car chase look which is why every single vehicle had that ridiculous amount of lean/sway every time you so much as changed lanes at any speed. V was going for more of modern style with more focus on precision driving and ridiculous jump (hence the lack of weight and ability to control the car mid-air).

 

In my opinion they nailed both styles of movie driving pretty damn well and I think they'll nail whatever they go for next. Personally, I'd love something in a Forza Horizon style complete with the ability to turn off traction control and ABS. I'm not sure how likely those kinds of options are but I think it would provide a decent balance of realism and ease of use while still being arcadey enough to fit in with the over-the-top action and over all insanity the rest of the gameplay will likely provide.

 

 

[PolandMountain]

I knew this will be a big discussion that will be moved to separate topic when I typed my last answer. Lmao

 It’s unreal and crazy but imagine GTA game with beamng driving and suspension physics. Funny thing is that cars would be still more drivable than IV cars anyways.

Edited January 5 by PolandMountain

[Spider-Vice]

11 hours ago, PolandMountain said:

I knew this will be a big discussion that will be moved to separate topic when I typed my last answer. Lmao

 

It's deserving of it, I even linked to a few previous topics over the years in this section (so people knew that they've existed before and what things were discussed there) - it's best that it has its own topic instead of being mixed up with all the general chatter and stuff in the main topic, as it seems to be an important subject for many when it comes to driving physics, crashing, etc

 

My only plea is that everyone discusses their preferences, speculation, etc. in a civil way and don't turn this topic into a GTA V vs. IV physics argument, because this happened a lot in 2012 and 2013 for V lol. Also avoid reacting to other people's preferences with memes because that's just sh*tposting. All else, hit away. Discussion is much more organised if we give people separate places to discuss significant things in regards to the next GTA, instead of it all being shoehorned into a megathread!

[Edward RDRIII]

14 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

It's deserving of it, I even linked to a few previous topics over the years in this section (so people knew that they've existed before and what things were discussed there) - it's best that it has its own topic instead of being mixed up with all the general chatter and stuff in the main topic, as it seems to be an important subject for many when it comes to driving physics, crashing, etc

 

My only plea is that everyone discusses their preferences, speculation, etc. in a civil way and don't turn this topic into a GTA V vs. IV physics argument, because this happened a lot in 2012 and 2013 for V lol. Also avoid reacting to other people's preferences with memes because that's just sh*tposting. All else, hit away. Discussion is much more organised if we give people separate places to discuss significant things in regards to the next GTA, instead of it all being shoehorned into a megathread!

It's easier even for Rockstar's spies looking for suggestions here to put on GTA 6. 

[TheHoover69]

hey I got an idea, how about this:

 

All performance-oriented vehicles such as hot hatches, sport coupes, luxury vehicles, sports cars, contemporary muscle cars, and supercars should retain V's characteristics in terms of handling/physics. That means little to no body roll when cornering and sharp, precise steering along with upgrades to further enhance those traits while also increasing vehicle performance.

 

All non-performance vehicles such as economy cars, minivans, pickup trucks, SUVs, retro/vintage vehicles (excluding classic sports cars), and commercial/industrial vehicles should somewhat retain IV's characteristics in terms of handling/physics. That means varying amounts of body roll (depending on the type of vehicle), a little bit more prone to understeer when pushed, may or may not have ABS brakes (this mostly pertains to vintage vehicles), decently responsive (but not exceptionally sharp) steering. This time, modifications and upgrades will have the vehicle behaving more like a vehicle from V, in terms of handling/physics.   

[GutterSharkz]

Not really trying to make a GTA V vs. IV physics argument, but both car physics fit their respective worlds imo. GTA IV was heavier/boat like and worked in the more constrained world of Liberty City, not a ton of places to outright race and probably called for more a simulated feel.

 

While GTA V environment felt more open/free to race, which called for more arcadyness and create an overall enjoyment of the setting of LA. As for GTA VI, I think their aiming more towards realism, coming off of RDR 2, but from the leaks it does look like GTA V esque physics, or maybe a blend of the two. Florida is a racing haven, so I don't think they'll be going back to the boat like feel, but I think we could a see more realistic driving feel compared to GTA V.

Edited January 5 by GutterSharkz

[Kris194]

Please, don't bring back GTA V handling or physics in any shape or form. Not only it's unrealistic but it's also boring as hell.

[suicidehummer]

21 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

V was going for more of modern style with more focus on precision driving and ridiculous jump

 

And yet all the jumps have no spot to actually land them. What was the deal with that in V? All the jumps just lead straight into buildings and walls and sh*t.

 

V handling is so f*cking bad it makes me mad. Thank god for the ability to mod on PC. I was so disappointed I barely played the game after it first came out on PS3. Whereas I was still playing IV up until the release of V. The damage and physics were the closest thing to BeamNG before that existed. I'd just find anything i could possibly launch a car off and send it. That one bridge with the barrier that worked as a ramp... such good times.

 

[Kris194]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:45 AM, PolandMountain said:

I knew this will be a big discussion that will be moved to separate topic when I typed my last answer. Lmao

 It’s unreal and crazy but imagine GTA game with beamng driving and suspension physics. Funny thing is that cars would be still more drivable than IV cars anyways.

Just tell me, that it supports steering wheel and I'll be in some kind of dreamland. Last time I've launched Beamng I was riding a bus for few hours just because of how great driving feels in that game and that was on a freaking keyboard.

[Audi]

IV's handling and driving was dog sh*t. After all these years I still don't understand why people simp it so hard. Yeah V driving was bad too but its closer to the arcadey handling the other GTA's have had at least. I dont want either of those 2 options, would rather have a more arcadey racing game driving feel like NFS or Forza Horizon but not straight up cartoon driving arcade either. Thats a pretty good compromise for a game where driving is a major feature BUT not the main focus.

 

IV is only "realistic" if you drive a 1978 Cadillac land yacht. So yeah if you only ever drove malaise era cars or box trucks sure IV was pretty realistic lol. Lets have "realistic driving physics" but only simulate the worst driving cars imaginable . This really do be a GTAIV moment.

 

GTA is not a driving or racing sim or even a simcade racing game and never has been. V handling sucks but for God's sake don't do IV again. A compromise in the middle wouldnt be too hard to find, just looking towards what a lot of FiveM racing servers already do (with varying degrees of arcade vs sim depending on where you go) is a good start.

 

Either way, even the worst handling GTA game is better than the driving in most if not all Ubisoft open world games lmao. Watch Dogs 1 (2 was a little better but thats a low bar) and Wildlands were atrocious to drive in.

Edited January 6 by Audi
Added more stuffs

[Tez2]

One thing that's guaranteed is the appearance of Advanced Handling Flags. The next iteration of the flags.

Spoiler

 

Of course, I'm well aware of the negative reception to the flags. But adding them to the code of a 2013 game is the result of that. A bunch of band-aids resulting in worse performance.

 

Whereas having them added from the get go would've produced different results. And the flags allows to adjust the downforce modifier of Open Wheel cars with each individual spoiler and front bumper part. As well as adjust the force multiplier for the wheelie. And the HSW performance mods for turbo stages.

 

Not all of these flags would make it into VI. Like the "CF_FIX_OLD_BUGS" that is clearly a band-aid for GTAV's old bugs.

 

 

You can see the evolution of the Downforce mechanics for GTA Online here,

Spoiler

 

 

More at this site

 

Huge credits to Broughy1322, andreww and the other team members.

 

We can expect individual mod parts to affect the performance unlike most vehicles of GTA V/Online that simply works like "Is <insert mod part> installed? If yes, apply fixed value regardless of individual part".

Edited January 6 by Tez2

[Spider-Vice]

Thing is, we'll surely be able to expect changes *overall* to the handling physics, none of the flags stuff may even be necessary as I'm sure a lot of fundamentals will change with vehicle physics. There will be major overhauls to stuff like this I think, like with every new GTA. Could be that we'll get a brand-new handling system even, etc, one thing we'd have to wait and see - I'd wager that not even what's in RDR2's files is representative of what could end up in VI.

 

The fact that they've been willing to go quite far with the old GTA Online codebase in terms of vehicle physics (despite the fact that people hate the "flags", there's a lot of physics programming and more that goes into them), is probably a good sign that GTA VI is gonna have some big overhauls as per usual between major games. Better hardware will also mean a bit more flexibility with all the math used behind vehicle physics and what not.

[TheHoover69]

31 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

One thing that's guaranteed is the appearance of Advanced Handling Flags. The next iteration of the flags.

  Hide contents

 

Of course, I'm well aware of the negative reception to the flags. But adding them to the code of a 2013 game is the result of that. A bunch of band-aids resulting in worse performance.

 

Whereas having them added from the get go would've produced different results. And the flags allows to adjust the downforce modifier of Open Wheel cars with each individual spoiler and front bumper part. As well as adjust the force multiplier for the wheelie. And the HSW performance mods for turbo stages.

 

Not all of these flags would make it into VI. Like the "CF_FIX_OLD_BUGS" which is clearly a band-aid for GTAV's old bugs.

 

 

You can see the evolution of the Downforce mechanics for GTA Online here,

  Hide contents

 

 

More at this site

 

Huge credits to Broughy1322, andreww and the other team members.

 

We can expect individual mod parts to affect the performance unlike most vehicles of GTA V/Online that simply works like "Is <insert mod part> installed? If yes, apply fixed value regardless of individual part".

 

I'm curious to know about what CF_Gearbox_Direct_Shift is? The other three gearboxes are pretty self-explanatory, but idk about that one.

 

Also good to see some stuff regarding differentials, this is something I've been wondering about for a long time now because, from what I've personally seen, I'm pretty sure all cars in the game (including ones from IV) all have open differentials. So I'm interested to see how the handling is impacted with the inclusion of locked differentials. 

[Tez2]

2 hours ago, TheHoover69 said:

I'm curious to know about what CF_Gearbox_Direct_Shift is? The other three gearboxes are pretty self-explanatory, but idk about that one.

This is where I roll out the red carpet for @WildBrick142. He already tested that and there's no observable effect. His theory is very much interesting.

 

Spoiler

 

 

As per Wild, all three gearbox flags have no effect, except for CF_GEARBOX_MANUAL. And none of the differential-related flags nor the gearbox flags are used on any vehicle other than the Omnis e-GT with its CF_GEARBOX_ELECTRIC.

 

This is more proof suggesting the Advanced Handling Flags will be used to the full extent in VI.

Edited January 6 by Tez2

[Spider-Vice]

Well, we'll see. I expect the handling system to have similarities but not all flags/features/code to be used as there'll be other lower-level overhauls. GTA V's handling system wasn't exactly like IV's so I expect changes anyway and no grounds for any conclusions just yet.

 

It's possible it's from GTA VI development but it's also possible that things will be a bit different by the final build.

[Mister Pink]

I would love GTA VI's handling to be a blended mix between IV and V. There must be a bit of a challenge like cars can be challenging in IV. I like IV's handling but it's a little too extreme. I get it though. The handling works for a city like Liberty City with narrow streets and tight corners. V with a more open map lends itself to a more arcade end of the spectrum which basically tries to reduce obstacles to stop you from slowing down and/or stopping. But I also think GTA V's handling is too arcadey at times. 

 

Somewhere in the middle of IV and V would be perfect. In fact, I'd love if it was possible to have old cars handle like cars in IV, mid cars handle in between IV and V and high end cars hand like cars from V. It's a full spectrum of handling from more "realistic" like IV to arcade like V. 

[GTA-Biker]

In my opinion,classic pre-1990 cars should have the wobbly suspension similar to GTA 4,while newer cars should have stiffer suspension,but their driving physics still shouldn't be as arcadey as in GTA 5.

As for motorcycles,I liked riding them the most in GTA SA,and I hate how unrealistic it is in GTA 5 (getting a speed boost when pulling a wheelie, jumping when hitting stuff while doing a wheelie, not being able to do a rolling burnout, etc.).

[SM00V 0PERAT0R]

I like GTA V 

[Tez2]

Reasonable grounds for the Advanced Handling Flags. Although, the "FIX_OLD_BUGS" flag is less likely to make it.

 

Changes to the configurable handling file structure, thru the titles, consisted of new parameters and new flags. Going back to GTA3.

 

GTA3, Vice City and SA Handling Data

 

GTA3 has hardcoded SubHandlingData for Boats, Bikes and Flying vehicles. Which became configurable with GTA Vice City.

 

GTA IV Handling Data

 

GTA V Handling Data

 

RDR2 Handling Data

 

Values taken as input for the underlying code containing all the math handling the driving physics. The handling format remained roughly the same across titles, but with new parameters.

 

If the Handling Data Manager for RDR2 is the same as GTAV, but with new sub sections like "CWheelHandlingData",  "CDraftVehHandlingData" and <animalTuning>, then it's reasonable to expect more of the same handling format with GTA VI.

[PolandMountain]

On 1/6/2023 at 7:33 AM, Kris194 said:

Just tell me, that it supports steering wheel and I'll be in some kind of dreamland. Last time I've launched Beamng I was riding a bus for few hours just because of how great driving feels in that game and that was on a freaking keyboard.

BeamnNG has quite nice steering wheel support, Force Feedback also got quite nice overhaul year ago. Only problem I got with it is that force feedback force is usually too weak or too strong (depending on wheel you got) so you need to f*ck around with settings quite a lot.