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Gang Territory Evolution of Liberty City in 1998


Anywhere USA

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Yeah this took a while. I'll add some detailed notes later. Just uploading this all was a bitch

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42 minutes ago, Mattineu said:

Can you tell us what each colour mean?

Light grey - Leone Family

Brown - Sindacco Family

Red - Triads

Orange - Diablos

Green - Forelli Family

Yellow - Yardies

Blue - Yakuza

Pink - Colombian Cartel

Purple - Hoods

Edited by Ivan1997GTA
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On 11/22/2022 at 9:40 PM, Ivan1997GTA said:

Light grey - Leone Family

Brown - Sindacco Family

Red - Triads

Orange - Diablos

Green - Forelli Family

Yellow - Yardies

Blue - Yakuza

Pink - Colombian Cartel

Purple - Hoods

Pretty much yeah. Also Black is Liberty City Bikers and Dark Grey is Sicilians.

 

Crosses generally indicate both gangs have influence there, whether they be actively fighting over it like the Triads and Diablos or simply sharing it like South Newport.

 

I didn’t include the Avenging Angels or LCB(after their missions) because neither really ‘controls’ territory. The LCB losses their hideout, the bulk of their membership, and seemingly the ability to threaten the larger gangs in Chinatown after the Maria missions are complete. While they still exist, they don’t effect the larger gangs anymore. Same with the Angels. They patrol everywhere, and seemingly have HQs in Chinatown, Belleville, and Wichita(The only places they seem to show up outside of missions), but they don’t actually target the larger gangs(just LCB and small street thugs) nor do they claim protection money. 
 

GTA Advances gang territories are not canon. Nothing makes sense.

 

 

As for what happens between this and 3 or in 3, while I don’t have all the details as I don’t feel like doing another 3 playthrough, the Cartel through their construction contract seize the damaged portion of Fort Staunton, and the remaining Forellis(including possibly Franco) sign on and merge with the Leone Family. The remaining holdouts fall to the Cartel, along with a few northern Yakuza outposts like the locked up warehouse. The Forelli’s try to break off again in 2001 when sh*t starts to go wrong for the Leones, it does not go well.

 

The Leones retake Chinatown shortly after LCS and hold it until the Summer of 2001 when the Triads re-emerge as a power(apparently due to Yakuza backing according to the Liberty Tree, solid alliance). The Yardies switch allegiance from the Leones to the Cartel, and the Cartel starts a civil war in the Southside Hoods, backing the Purple Nines.

 

The Diablos somehow survive despite being enemies with everyone except the hoods and seemingly having no allies. In fact by the time of GTA 3 they’ve slightly expanded east and especially North.

 

In 3, the Leones retake Chinatown for a whole two minutes before the death of Salvatore and massive loss of manpower undoes that. They also put down the Forelli revolt pretty well(with a little help from El Burro). The Yardies strengthen ties to the Cartel to the point Courtney is taking orders from Catalina. The Purple Nines lose to the Red Jacks(who I guess are still on good terms with the Leones since they use a St Marks garage), and the Yakuza pushes their line of control in Staunton like a block North into the construction site. Then both the Yakuza and Cartel lose all their leadership within like a day of eachother so where that war goes after Claude leaves is anyone’s guess.  Cartel has the Yardies and Yakuza have the Triads, plus the Leones(probably with Toni at the head) are still kicking and possibly allied with the Red Jacks. Oh and the Diablos survive somehow…

 

(Also why do we know so little about the Liberty City Triads, or Portland Triads, or whatever. Every other gang we know about some leadership or members or something. Yardies lead by King Courtney, Queen Lizzy is up there, K-Jah Guy likes them. Yakuza has Kenji as the Waka Gashira and…..wait is Asuka the Oyabun? Kazuki was Waka Gashira too come to think of it…point is, we usually know a little bit. Nothing for the Triads. Just a couple of nameless faceless ‘warlords’ you kill in that one mission in 3. Even the website doesn’t offer many clues. I guess the Leader could be ‘Cheung’, that’s who runs the Fish Factory front company, but no first name? Damn.)

 

Edited by Anywhere USA
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/24/2022 at 12:53 AM, Anywhere USA said:

Pretty much yeah. Also Black is Liberty City Bikers and Dark Grey is Sicilians.

 

Crosses generally indicate both gangs have influence there, whether they be actively fighting over it like the Triads and Diablos or simply sharing it like South Newport.

 

I didn’t include the Avenging Angels or LCB(after their missions) because neither really ‘controls’ territory. The LCB losses their hideout, the bulk of their membership, and seemingly the ability to threaten the larger gangs in Chinatown after the Maria missions are complete. While they still exist, they don’t effect the larger gangs anymore. Same with the Angels. They patrol everywhere, and seemingly have HQs in Chinatown, Belleville, and Wichita(The only places they seem to show up outside of missions), but they don’t actually target the larger gangs(just LCB and small street thugs) nor do they claim protection money. 
 

GTA Advances gang territories are not canon. Nothing makes sense.

 

 

As for what happens between this and 3 or in 3, while I don’t have all the details as I don’t feel like doing another 3 playthrough, the Cartel through their construction contract seize the damaged portion of Fort Staunton, and the remaining Forellis(including possibly Franco) sign on and merge with the Leone Family. The remaining holdouts fall to the Cartel, along with a few northern Yakuza outposts like the locked up warehouse. The Forelli’s try to break off again in 2001 when sh*t starts to go wrong for the Leones, it does not go well.

 

The Leones retake Chinatown shortly after LCS and hold it until the Summer of 2001 when the Triads re-emerge as a power(apparently due to Yakuza backing according to the Liberty Tree, solid alliance). The Yardies switch allegiance from the Leones to the Cartel, and the Cartel starts a civil war in the Southside Hoods, backing the Purple Nines.

 

The Diablos somehow survive despite being enemies with everyone except the hoods and seemingly having no allies. In fact by the time of GTA 3 they’ve slightly expanded east and especially North.

 

In 3, the Leones retake Chinatown for a whole two minutes before the death of Salvatore and massive loss of manpower undoes that. They also put down the Forelli revolt pretty well(with a little help from El Burro). The Yardies strengthen ties to the Cartel to the point Courtney is taking orders from Catalina. The Purple Nines lose to the Red Jacks(who I guess are still on good terms with the Leones since they use a St Marks garage), and the Yakuza pushes their line of control in Staunton like a block North into the construction site. Then both the Yakuza and Cartel lose all their leadership within like a day of eachother so where that war goes after Claude leaves is anyone’s guess.  Cartel has the Yardies and Yakuza have the Triads, plus the Leones(probably with Toni at the head) are still kicking and possibly allied with the Red Jacks. Oh and the Diablos survive somehow…

 

(Also why do we know so little about the Liberty City Triads, or Portland Triads, or whatever. Every other gang we know about some leadership or members or something. Yardies lead by King Courtney, Queen Lizzy is up there, K-Jah Guy likes them. Yakuza has Kenji as the Waka Gashira and…..wait is Asuka the Oyabun? Kazuki was Waka Gashira too come to think of it…point is, we usually know a little bit. Nothing for the Triads. Just a couple of nameless faceless ‘warlords’ you kill in that one mission in 3. Even the website doesn’t offer many clues. I guess the Leader could be ‘Cheung’, that’s who runs the Fish Factory front company, but no first name? Damn.)

 

(Regarding my last point, according to the LCS multiplayer menu at least one triad member is named "Hung Well", haha funny pun you already did in GTA 1. Probably not the leader given he uses the generic model and considering what I learned prior about the Cheung Mackeral Factory, but still worth noting. Maybe Hung Well is one of the warlords killed in 3.)

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  • 6 months later...
Anywhere USA

A couple of minor corrections:

1. I'm not sure if the Liberty City Bikers actually controlled the Diner at the start of the game(at least in a manner serious enough to warrant marking on the map, I didn't mark Avenging Angels anywhere as they never had enough strength to threaten the main factions, just street thugs) or if they took it during the ugly scramble for control of Chinatown

2. I should probably make all of Newport as Sindacco controlled during the brief period AFTER war breaks out between them and the Forellis, but BEFORE the Yardies move in. While earlier they seem to share the territory(both spawning and showing up in missions) and the northern third seems exclusively Forelli, if the Sindaccos were able to get soldiers as far north as Fort Staunton during the attack and were the only ones fighting the Yardies I should probably mark it as all theres after that(maybe with a brief crossed line pattern to show the failed assault on Fort Staunton

3. I have zero clue whether or not Pike Creek was ever Yakuza or not. They spawn there for a while, and it would sorta click with what they control in Staunton? But I don't think any Missions back it up, there's no rampage for them there, and it could very easily be a bug given they also rarely spawn on Wichita Gardens(which we KNOW they never control in the lore, it's Forelli turf until the Hoods move in late game). If anyone has proof that can settle this tie tell me.

4. Some of the early game exact borders in Hepburn Heights and Harwood might need minor adjustment I dunno

 

 

Also, I was thinking of TRYING to establish a bit of an idea of what happened pre-1998. Not gurantees, there isn't a ton to go off of except statements in GTA SA and earlier, and minor retconns like the status of Luigis/Paulies make it messy. I will note, however, that according to the website, the Triads and Diablos both only got established in 1997(and seemingly didn't fully control any territory til 1998) and the Colombians only moved in a few years prior due to weakening in the old countey(Pablo Escobar died in 1993 so AFTER San Andreas, probably taking over former Forelli(?) territory during the turf war that broke out late 1992 and seemingly lasted until 1994 when Toni killed someone). The Yakuza are the only non-Mafia family to have been there pre-San Andreas, according to the website since the mid 70s. No clue about the Hoods, but I doubt they've run sh*t prior

Edited by Anywhere USA
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Anywhere USA

Decided to look through the LCS websites to try to learn more. Not much, but-

1. One of Leon's emails indicates that sh*t got bad between the Three Families after Salvatore returned from Las Venturas, he's been a 'pain in everyone's backside' and that Paulie was getting sick of his sh*t.

2. Maria was feeding info to Ned Burner to fuel her drug habit.

3. Avery was working with the Cartel as early March 1998 and probably sooner.

4. Paulies Revue Bar was firmly running from the start of the year onward. Interestingly, their website lists a couple scheduled events for May 7th and June 9th 1998, but the one for July 10th was cancelled, seemingly suggesting they lost control of the business between June 9th and July 10th.

5. Leon mentions Toni Cipriani is 'on his way back to town' on an email from May 3rd, and on May 6th(the final email on the website) we see an email from Ma Cipriani saying her son is returning from vacation 'soon'. So GTA LCS seemingly starts around May 8th...ish, 1998. And there's evidence the Portland arc probably concludes in late June or early July.

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Anywhere USA

Checking the 3 websites, some of the same stuff I saw before, but

1. The Forelli's do run Saint Marks Bistro by the time of GTA 3. BUT, they only 're-broke' off from the Leones 'two years ago' and serious fighting only broke out recently. So seemingly the Forelli's merged with the Leones out of desperation after losing everything in 1998, then slowly broke away and by 3 are trying to go it alone again.

 

2. Asuka arrived in Liberty in 1991 and Kenji Kasen in 1996. Unclear on Kazuki, but presumably earlier since the Yakuza presence in the city dates back to the mid 70s. Asuka is also seemingly the Oyaban.

 

3. One article implies the Yakuza are directly helping the Triads in Portland. Speaking of them, they reportedly start trying to retake Chinatown from the Leones by July 2001.

 

4. Colombian Cartel operating in Liberty for 'years'

 

5. Hoods increased 'ten fold' in membership from 1996-2001. So they existed at least as early as 1996, but as a street gang they seemingly never fully controlled Wichita until the events of LCS

 

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