GTA 6 Speculation & Discussion [Part 8] - The Rabbit Hole

[VercettiGuy]

6 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

Night time driving with actual dark nights would be so cool. I was playing Forza Horizon 4 the other day and while the nights there aren't pitch black, they're decently dark enough where you actually need your headlights. I remember looking out over like a field, towards the moon, I could barely make out the shape of the land, but the moonlight was being reflected in puddles of water and it just looked so f*cking cool.

 

Yes! Totally agree with you. Funny you mention FH4, as I had a similar experience in FH3 when it came out. Drove through the jungle at night and it was literally pitch black, I couldn't see anything that wasn't in my light's radius. I had the map turned off and had absolutely no idea where I was going. It's little moments like that that I'll always remember.

 

Imagine being in the Grassrivers, they're massive and it's genuinely pitch black. Like, horror-game pitch black. Only the moon being a small light source. You can't see a thing, you can only hear noises and they don't sound very welcoming. It should absolutely give you the creeps. 

They managed to do that in RDR2's swamp, I so hope they'll do it again and that this is the direction they want that part of the map to go.

[Ser_Salty]

7 minutes ago, VercettiGuy said:

 

Yes! Totally agree with you. Funny you mention FH4, as I had a similar experience in FH3 when it came out. Drove through the jungle at night and it was literally pitch black, I couldn't see anything that wasn't in my light's radius. I had the map turned off and had absolutely no idea where I was going. It's little moments like that that I'll always remember.

 

Imagine being in the Grassrivers, they're massive and it's genuinely pitch black. Like, horror-game pitch black. Only the moon being a small light source. You can't see a thing, you can only hear noises and they don't sound very welcoming. It should absolutely give you the creeps. 

They managed to do that in RDR2's swamp, I so hope they'll do it again and that this is the direction they want that part of the map to go.

Imagine you crash your helicopter or something in the grassrivers at night, and now you gotta find your way back on foot. You whip out a flashlight and just see dozens of little glowing eyes in the water. You have no car, only a pistol or micro SMG, map turned off and now you gotta run your ass back to civilization before the gators get you.

[SoldierBoy]

3 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

Imagine you crash your helicopter or something in the grassrivers at night, and now you gotta find your way back on foot. You whip out a flashlight and just see dozens of little glowing eyes in the water. You have no car, only a pistol or micro SMG, map turned off and now you gotta run your ass back to civilization before the gators get you.

I really really want to feel lost in a game for once. RDR 2 was a step closer in that aspect

[TheOriginalGunslinger]

18 minutes ago, SoldierBoy said:

I really really want to feel lost in a game for once. RDR 2 was a step closer in that aspect

Playing with the radar completely off and first-person is definitely an experience

Edited Tuesday at 01:08 AM by TheOriginalGunslinger

[Zapper]

11 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

It's not about sales or popularity, it's about quality and appreciation.

 

But V has critical and audience acclaim, sales, popularity, and longevity all at the same time. What more does it need? What do you think R* feels about V? Personal preference, sure, but there's zero objectivity in what you're saying.

 

18 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

My point was just that GTA V has the wrong ratio of size to quality. Los Santos is much smaller than Liberty City, yet is severely lacking in detail and interactivity. Blaine County is large and beautiful to look at, but poorly laid out and filled with unusable mountain space, when compared to the countryside of SA (which isn't even that much smaller when you cut out the actual dead space of most of the mountains).

 

I don't know where you got that information, but that is flat-out wrong. HD Universe Los Santos is almost 2 times larger than Liberty City while maintaining a comparable level of detail on the same hardware. Here's a fantastic post comparing the map sizes of various GTAs:

 

The only major issue I had with V's map is that Paleto Bay should've been fleshed out a lot more, and for IV's map, the lack of surrounding areas severely hampered replayability for me.

 

21 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

VI needs to be large, detailed with a well laid out map that isn't just padded out with unusable space to fly over. It needs a city and a map that you can actually interact with. Liberty City was like a character of its own in GTA IV, Los Santos and Blaine County in V are just backdrops.

 

I respect your opinion, but I flat out disagree with the bolded part. There's nothing objective about that statement. Both V's San Andreas and IV's Liberty City are equally important to their direction and atmosphere.

 

VI should have a much higher level of detail even if it's a lot larger than V simply by virtue of it being made of much more powerful hardware.

[naughtygawdxci]

1 hour ago, VercettiGuy said:

Check out 7:15:

 

 

That's what I'm talking about! Grassrivers being pitch black - until you turn the light on 

I wonder how big the Grassrivers will be, you probably gonna be able to see the whole city skyline

[Ser_Salty]

24 minutes ago, Zapper said:

 

But V has critical and audience acclaim, sales, popularity, and longevity all at the same time. What more does it need? What do you think R* feels about V? Personal preference, sure, but there's zero objectivity in what you're saying.

 

 

I don't know where you got that information, but that is flat-out wrong. HD Universe Los Santos is almost 2 times larger than Liberty City while maintaining a comparable level of detail on the same hardware. Here's a fantastic post comparing the map sizes of various GTAs:

 

I respect your opinion, but I flat out disagree with the bolded part. There's nothing objective about that statement. Both V's San Andreas and IV's Liberty City are equally important to their direction and atmosphere.

It could need the various things I listed. I'm not talking about how successful the game is, I'm talking about how good it and its various aspects are.

 

I looked up several map comparisons, and Los Santos usually looked a little over 2/3 the size of LC. It's hard to find accurate ones, wish there was one just using RAGE units instead of pixels or airport runways as reference. Both take about an hour to cross while walking, but there are obviously going to be differences in walking speed and route length.

 

I will heavily disagree with you on the comparable level of detail part, though, because Los Santos is flat (obviously in the literal sense, but I'm talking about the metaphorical sense) compared to LC. Almost no buildings can be entered, no parts interacted with. Think about the fast food places, restaurants, bars and bowling alleys that you can enter. The probably dozens of apartment stairways you can use to get to the roofs and the weird porn shops you can enter. You can buy food from food carts, you can see people fixing their cars or getting their trunks searched, running for cover and opening umbrellas when it rains. You could even get someone arrested if they attacked you and you ran to a cop. The detail of a city isn't just the graphical fidelity or the amount of objects scattered around. That's what I mean when I say that Liberty City is like a character and Los Santos is just a backdrop. Of course LS is important for the atmosphere of the story, but it doesn't do anything outside of the story. It's a city that is significantly less alive than Liberty City was.

[MrBreak16]

I think the 4 main problems with GTAV’s map that makes it feel barren and empty are:

1. The game lacks any significant things to do in the open world outside of main story missions.
2. The severe lack of interiors outside of safehouses, copy pasted shops and mission specific interiors.
3. Los Santos by itself isn’t a very interesting location compared to Liberty City, Vice City, San Fierro and Las Venturas.
4. The countryside is lacking in variety, vegetation and interesting points of interests like towns (the "towns" in Blaine County are too small and too rural and there isn’t enough of them) or interesting landmarks to explore (the only meaningful points of interests are restricted areas).

[Ser_Salty]

12 minutes ago, MrBreak16 said:

I think the 4 main problems with GTAV’s map that makes it feel barren and empty are:

1. The game lacks any significant things to do in the open world outside of main story missions.
2. The severe lack of interiors outside of safehouses, copy pasted shops and mission specific interiors.
3. Los Santos by itself isn’t a very interesting location compared to Liberty City, Vice City, San Fierro and Las Venturas.
4. The countryside is lacking in variety, vegetation and interesting points of interests like towns (the "towns" in Blaine County are too small and too rural and there isn’t enough of them) or interesting landmarks to explore (the only meaningful points of interests are restricted areas).

Even just replacing one steep mountain with a not so steep mountain covered in forest would've helped a lot. Adding some more detail and points of interest to areas like the trailer parks, of which there are several in the game, could've gone a long way towards making them more memorable. Maybe one of them could've had a "store" that sells more irregular weapons like molotovs and pipe bombs. You know, things like that. Reasons to go there. Maybe don't add the rocket launcher to Ammu Nation and just have it only be available by finding it. People would certainly remember a shack with a rocket launcher in it.

[Gentlebreeze]

1 hour ago, Zapper said:

VI should have a much higher level of detail even if it's a lot larger than V simply by virtue of it being made of much more powerful hardware.

can’t wait to see GTA IV toll roads comparison to GTA VI. 

[Ser_Salty]

1 minute ago, Gentlebreeze said:

can’t wait to see GTA IV toll roads comparison to GTA VI. 

If the toll road prices don't accurately reflect inflation, the game goes straight in the bin

[BigBoyBertram]

1 hour ago, Zapper said:

 

But V has critical and audience acclaim, sales, popularity, and longevity all at the same time. What more does it need? What do you think R* feels about V? Personal preference, sure, but there's zero objectivity in what you're saying.

 

 

I don't know where you got that information, but that is flat-out wrong. HD Universe Los Santos is almost 2 times larger than Liberty City while maintaining a comparable level of detail on the same hardware. Here's a fantastic post comparing the map sizes of various GTAs:

 

The only major issue I had with V's map is that Paleto Bay should've been fleshed out a lot more, and for IV's map, the lack of surrounding areas severely hampered replayability for me.

 

 

I respect your opinion, but I flat out disagree with the bolded part. There's nothing objective about that statement. Both V's San Andreas and IV's Liberty City are equally important to their direction and atmosphere.

 

VI should have a much higher level of detail even if it's a lot larger than V simply by virtue of it being made of much more powerful hardware.

 

Respect +

 

For a game that released on the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware, V was a pretty special game, with a presentation and cinematic style that is still undeniably cutting edge amongst its peers even to this day. Too many people on here unfortunately take their dislike of V too far and eventually declare some pretty silly things. Case and point, I had no idea that the mountain range in GTA V was so damn problematic for you all. I've spent a lot of time on YouTube, Twitter, and Reddit, and never once have I seen people hating on Mount Chiliad. However, take one step on GTA Forums and its an irredeemable abomination and V's map is the worst in Rockstar history lol. If VI has some natural elevation, I will honestly be happy. I get it, with online V has become the whipping boy of Rockstar's catalogue. Nevertheless, there is a reason why the game has done so damn well, both critically and commercially, and it sure as hell is not solely because of the online. It's a damn fun and polished game. 

 

GTA V, like all games, absolutely has some noticeable limitations. The Physics could be better, sandbox elements could have been more fleshed out, and the story is a bit too goofy in my opinion. However, I would also argue IV has just as many, if not more limitations than V as an experience. After all, there is a REASON why Rockstar made a game like GTA V in the first place, and it certainly wasn't because IV was praised to the high heavens back at release by the community. 

 

Personally, while IV and V are both great, I hope VI takes its own more distinctive path when it comes to world design; a structure that avoids the pitfalls of both approaches. Based on the leaks, I feel as though Rockstar is attempting to fuse what made both San Andreas and RDRII special. A game with San Andreas's scale and distinctive regions, combined with RDRII's interactivity, detail, and atmosphere, no matter how small a location, would blow every other GTA title out of the water when it comes to world design. 

[Gentlebreeze]

5 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

If the toll road prices don't accurately reflect inflation, the game goes straight in the bin

Spoiler

Racing in between them little toll booths, throwing our controllers(mouse & keyboards)when we crash into them. 

[MrBreak16]

At least it seems that GTAVI will be fixing many of the issues that GTAV’s map had. Judging from everything that we have seen in the leaks, we know that we will get another urban area outside of Vice City in the form of Port Gellhorn which sure won’t be as big as Vice City, but at least it seems like it will be about half of the size of Vice City and have multiple points of interests and interiors unlike Sandy Shores and Paleto Bay in GTAV which were basically a joke.
 

The map will also likely be more varied as we know there will be many islands around Vice City and the keys, there will be a swamp, we know that there are hills and elevation in the northern part of the map, hopefully there will be a bunch of forest areas, there will be a lake which hopefully won’t be as large and useless as the Alamo Sea in GTAV and it seems that there will also be some farmland. 
 

It also looks like there will be a lot of interiors and side activities to do unlike GTAV. Plus like I said in my previous post, Vice City is a more interesting location than Los Santos with Vice Beach and it’s art deco buildings, neon lights, shopping malls, beaches full of tourists, etc… all of the little islands in the bay with their mansions and Vice Mainland which already looks to have more skyscrapers and seems more urban than Los Santos which will probably satisfy players who like the dense urban Liberty City. And even just thinking about taking a road trip to the keys and visit small seaside towns and reefs sounds very cool.

[Ser_Salty]

4 minutes ago, BigBoyBertram said:

I've spent a lot of time on YouTube, Twitter, and Reddit, and never once have I seen people hating on Mount Chiliad. However, take one step on GTA Forums and its an irredeemable abomination and V's map is the worst in Rockstar history lol.

It's not Mount Chiliad. It's the San Chianski Mountain Range, Tongva Hills, Mount Josiah, Palomino Highlands and some other, smaller area that are the problem. Mount Chiliad still isn't great, it's still a pretty boring mountain, but it at least has pathways, a cable car and some structures on the top. Those other mountains? Empty. Absolutely f*ck all there. A cave in the Tongva Hills and some trees in the Palomino Highlands, and that's it. More of the mountains should've been like the Chiliad Mountain State Wilderness/Raton Canyon area, with pathways and trails, forests and the odd structure or two.

[Ser_Salty]

8 minutes ago, MrBreak16 said:

At least it seems that GTAVI will be fixing many of the issues that GTAV’s map had. Judging from everything that we have seen in the leaks, we know that we will get another urban area outside of Vice City in the form of Port Gellhorn which sure won’t be as big as Vice City, but at least it seems like it will be about half of the size of Vice City and have multiple points of interests and interiors unlike Sandy Shores and Paleto Bay in GTAV which were basically a joke.
 

The map will also likely be more varied as we know there will be many islands around Vice City and the keys, there will be a swamp, we know that there are hills and elevation in the northern part of the map, hopefully there will be a bunch of forest areas, there will be a lake which hopefully won’t be as large and useless as the Alamo Sea in GTAV and it seems that there will also be some farmland. 
 

It also looks like there will be a lot of interiors and side activities to do unlike GTAV. Plus like I said in my previous post, Vice City is a more interesting location than Los Santos with Vice Beach and it’s art deco buildings, neon lights, shopping malls, beaches full of tourists, etc… all of the little islands in the bay with their mansions and Vice Mainland which already looks to have more skyscrapers and seems more urban than Los Santos which will probably satisfy players who like the dense urban Liberty City. And even just thinking about taking a road trip to the keys and visit small seaside towns and reefs sounds very cool.

And VI is gonna have fishing in it, so any lake is already gonna be ten times more fun than the Alamo Sea (which I do quite like conceptually, just has an unfortunate placement with Mount Chiliad right behind it, stacking two large obstacles together).

 

If there's one thing I'm hoping for but probably won't happen it's including the Bahamas in the map. Having some larger islands, with actuall stuff on it would make boats and aircraft way more useful. Also buying your own private island there would be really cool.

[Dick Justice]

The nature of large maps and countryside always means there's going to be a bit of dead space. It was a problem with both designs of San Andreas. It's a development time issue - there's not enough time to make an entire map brimming with detail when your goal is to make it as large as possible. Is Blaine County a more interesting place without the Alamo Sea and Mt. Josiah if there is nothing to replace them?

[Vice Cit]

13 minutes ago, Ser_Salty said:

If there's one thing I'm hoping for but probably won't happen it's including the Bahamas in the map. Having some larger islands, with actuall stuff on it would make boats and aircraft way more useful. Also buying your own private island there would be really cool.

I think having a tropical island is a given for the VI map, even if it's not huge. But I can 100% see a mid sized island with a tourist resort on it, ran by narcos.

[Ser_Salty]

Just now, Dick Justice said:

The nature of large maps and countryside always means there's going to be a bit of dead space. It was a problem with both designs of San Andreas. It's a development time issue - there's not enough time to make an entire map brimming with detail when your goal is to make it as large as possible. Is Blaine County a more interesting place without the Alamo Sea and Mt. Josiah if there is nothing to replace them?

It wasn't a problem with San Andreas. There's a difference between empty space and dead space. San Andreas has empty space: fields, desert, forests etc., these are still usable by the player. Many of the mountains in V are dead space, because they are nearly unusable, with player characters falling off and many vehicles unable to climb them because of their incline. (Alamo Sea is usable and explorable by boat, swimming and diving, so only counts as empty space, btw) I can take a shortcut through Back O'Beyond when going to Angel Pine or through the desert around Area 69 when going to Fort Carson from the abandoned airstrip. I can't cut through the San Chianski Mountain Range, because most cars can't make it and there's nothing to go to beyond them anyway. They're actually just filler to boost the map size and hide the coast from view if you're in Sandy Shores. It also doesn't take more development effort to make a moderately hilly forest with a hunting cabin and a pond compared to making a mountain range.

[Burgher1933]

1 hour ago, BigBoyBertram said:

 

Respect +

 

For a game that released on the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware, V was a pretty special game, with a presentation and cinematic style that is still undeniably cutting edge amongst its peers even to this day. Too many people on here unfortunately take their dislike of V too far and eventually declare some pretty silly things. Case and point, I had no idea that the mountain range in GTA V was so damn problematic for you all. I've spent a lot of time on YouTube, Twitter, and Reddit, and never once have I seen people hating on Mount Chiliad. However, take one step on GTA Forums and its an irredeemable abomination and V's map is the worst in Rockstar history lol. If VI has some natural elevation, I will honestly be happy. I get it, with online V has become the whipping boy of Rockstar's catalogue. Nevertheless, there is a reason why the game has done so damn well, both critically and commercially, and it sure as hell is not solely because of the online. It's a damn fun and polished game. 

 

GTA V, like all games, absolutely has some noticeable limitations. The Physics could be better, sandbox elements could have been more fleshed out, and the story is a bit too goofy in my opinion. However, I would also argue IV has just as many, if not more limitations than V as an experience. After all, there is a REASON why Rockstar made a game like GTA V in the first place, and it certainly wasn't because IV was praised to the high heavens back at release by the community. 

 

Personally, while IV and V are both great, I hope VI takes its own more distinctive path when it comes to world design; a structure that avoids the pitfalls of both approaches. Based on the leaks, I feel as though Rockstar is attempting to fuse what made both San Andreas and RDRII special. A game with San Andreas's scale and distinctive regions, combined with RDRII's interactivity, detail, and atmosphere, no matter how small a location, would blow every other GTA title out of the water when it comes to world design. 

Have you ever browsed through the heavy, mysterious woods of Roanoke Ridge, stopping at Van Horn for a breath of grime and waterfront air?

 

Have you fast travelled to Tumbleweed, where the land burns your OLED on a sunny afternoon?

 

Remember the first time you stepped in the slush and mud of Bluewater Marsh or heard the chorus of insects throughout Lagras?

 

We essentially got our first taste of the atmospheric value and respect the studio has for such a diverse North American terrain.

 

Albeit it was the tail end of the 19th Century, the travels from the surrounding areas of Liberty City ---> Los Santos ---> Vice City were/are right there for us to experience and enjoy, in a game that had a soft-target release of going-on 6 years ago.

 

Based off the final cumulative product (RDR2) just imagine what they could've done if the entire map's focus was that of the Southeastern portion. How fierce and spread-out would Saint Denis of been? With an already paranoid sense-of-survival throughout the swamps, how many more random encounters could they've added to further enhance the lore of the Night Folk and Legendary Gators who roam a midnight's path?

 

Mix all of that with new oceanic exploration and the common-title land utilization of [this location - this time - this type of weather] and most importantly, a much more powerful 'lowest common denominator CPU' to develop for, well - there you go, essentially an endless amount of anticipated potential on how the VI map will blow anything we've played before out of the water.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:49 AM by Burgher1933

[IzzyBlues]

5 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

I *still* enjoy sunsets in GTA V quite a bit, I still take pics of a lot of those when playing GTAO, but I especially like the ones in RDR2 with the new weather system. Man GTA VI is gonna be unimaginably pretty.

Can we hold hands on the beach and watch the sunsets together?

[TheOriginalGunslinger]

1 hour ago, Burgher1933 said:

Have you ever browsed through the heavy, mysterious woods of Roanoke Ridge, stopping at Van Horn for a breath of grime and waterfront air?

 

Have you fast travelled to Tumbleweed, where the land burns your OLED on a sunny afternoon?

 

Remember the first time you stepped in the slush and mud of Bluewater Marsh or heard the chorus of insects throughout Lagras?

 

We essentially got our first taste of the atmospheric value and respect the studio has for such a diverse North American terrain.

 

Albeit it was the tail end of the 19th Century, the travels from the surrounding areas of Liberty City ---> Los Santos ---> Vice City were/are right there for us to experience and enjoy, in a game that had a soft-target release of going-on 6 years ago.

 

Beautiful

[IzzyBlues]

Also, if anyone is wondering where Zello has been this whole time, he's been busy.

 

 

[wise_man]

1 hour ago, IzzyBlues said:

Can we hold hands on the beach and watch the sunsets together?

Press (X) to hold hands

Proceed with a cutscene of Jason and Lucia holding hand and watching the sunset

[Kid Named Finger]

9 hours ago, Rockstarter said:

i noticed the Ocelot Virtue seems to have a very detailed interior, it even has an LCD display that shows you which song is playing on the radio.

 

do other cars have this? I haven't noticed.

 

 

source or ban.

Glad to see someone calling that guy out on his bullsh*t.

[Devdevi45]

Besides South America dlc I do think liberty city will be a fully fledged DLC and P.S with the amount of content R* can drop y’all can best believe this could be the last GTA of our lifetime (well at least to us older individuals)

[ShotGunRain]

While talking about GTA IV, I hope Rockstar bring back hidden rare cars.  

[Kid Named Finger]

5 hours ago, BigBoyBertram said:

Personally, while IV and V are both great, I hope VI takes its own more distinctive path when it comes to world design

They're really going for a V+RDR2 approach plus adding multiple ways to approach every mission. I just hope the multiple ways thing isn't scripted like in V with lester giving you two scripted ways to do every heist and instead the game just tells you : "Here's the objective, do it however the f*ck you want" like in Elden Ring.

[Emmi]

9 hours ago, VercettiGuy said:

I have a weak spot for sunsets. Ask my friends, all I took pictures of in V was sunsets. We had to stop missions for that 

 

That being said, I can't wait for the moment when I'll be sitting at a beautiful spot in Vice City, watching the sunset with a nice tune playing.

 

The night time will be even more amazing, provided it will actually be dark when there aren't any lights near this time around. Hauntingly beautiful and quiet outside the city, bright and loud inside the city.

 

This game needs to come out already. 

Just please give us a sit button! The most annoying thing to me is not being able to sit wherever I want in any GTA game!!!

 

 

8 hours ago, TheOriginalGunslinger said:

Heck yeah! The rain is gonna be something else too

I hope they take the GTA IV rain approach where it looks realistic unlike RDR2's strange rain effects.

[jacqueks]

16 minutes ago, ShotGunRain said:

While talking about GTA IV, I hope Rockstar bring back hidden rare cars.  

Dubsta 2 exists

And getting it is way harder than getting the Sultan RS in GTA 4