Franklin is one of the most underrated protagonists in the GTA series

[Comrade Monke]

I actually really like Franklin. He is the only one in GTA 5 who followed the classic "From 0 to powerful influencial criminal empire" structure that made the 3D games great. He is also like, the only normal human being protagonist in GTA 5, I liked Trevor but he is... Well Trevor and Michael is a traitor and rat. Again why do people not like him?

 

 

 

[Ryo256]

Reasons people don't like him that I can think of is:

1. People think he is discount CJ.

2. People don't like him whining, especially dissing the Green Gang which people like from GTA SA.
3. He feels under-developed compared to Michael and Trevor.
4. He feels like a third-wheel in the Michael and Trevor relationship.
5. People do not think he really earned his way to the top e.g the new house was a gift from Lester and the Ending C e.g is also Lester's idea.
6. He doesn't have much quirks compared to Michael and Trevor e.g try switching to him and he's either eating or taking our trash or something. Feels bland.
7. Tanisha-simp because people don't like Tanisha. And also becasue the relationship doesn't feel developed at all.
8. People find Lamar better.
9. Yee-yee ass haircut.
10. Not enough gang-related stuff with him because people expected that from his character trailer.

[D T]

I like Franklin. He was meant to be a stand in for the player. Someone relatable we could view the game world through and sympathize with. A 20 something still living with his aunt, taking on mundane chores like dumping the trash, eating crisps, and trying to escape the futile environment he grew up in. I don't think his relationship with Tanisha needed to be spelled out any clearer. We've all had people in our lives that we wished to marry until life got in the way. The dynamic between them was very human and portrayed really well. In a way, Shawn Fonteno's lack of acting experience gave Franklin a charm the rest of the cast lacked. He genuinely sounds like a regular dude struggling to make sense of all this crazy sh*t happening around him. Steven Ogg is a great performer but he is quite clearly an actor, same with Ned Luke. They ham it up a bit too much at times, but Shawn always kept things feeling grounded.

 

People complain about his constant whining as though we don't spend our life sitting around whining about this game. Franklin felt like a real human being. And that's a good thing. Especially when almost every other character in this game is a cardboard cutout stereotype.

[Muller147]

44 minutes ago, D T said:

I like Franklin. He was meant to be a stand in for the player. Someone relatable we could view the game world through and sympathize with. A 20 something still living with his aunt, taking on mundane chores like dumping the trash, eating crisps, and trying to escape the futile environment he grew up in. I don't think his relationship with Tanisha needed to be spelled out any clearer. We've all had people in our lives that we wished to marry until life got in the way. The dynamic between them was very human and portrayed really well. In a way, Shawn Fonteno's lack of acting experience gave Franklin a charm the rest of the cast lacked. He genuinely sounds like a regular dude struggling to make sense of all this crazy sh*t happening around him. Steven Ogg is a great performer but he is quite clearly an actor, same with Ned Luke. They ham it up a bit too much at times, but Shawn always kept things feeling grounded.

 

People complain about his constant whining as though we don't spend our life sitting around whining about this game. Franklin felt like a real human being. And that's a good thing. Especially when almost every other character in this game is a cardboard cutout stereotype.

I'll give him that he felt closest to an actual person, for me personally it was just an extremely boring one.

Even something as minor as insulting people in free roam illustrates it to me, Michael + Trevor properly portray being pissed off at someone, while I don't even think I'd look up if Franklin came over and said 'eh you lame dog' in that monotone voice.

I don't agree on Tanisha either, with how shallow and hypocritical she is in the story it would have been better character development for Franklin to wise up to it and move on from her, I don't follow GTAO's story additions much but him + her getting together is just stupid in my book and makes no sense after what happens in the story mode, even the Franklin + Tonya dynamic had more mutual respect + liking for each other within it.

[MaddenedGhost]

Franklin isn't underrated, he's underdeveloped, GTAV's story could move on and function without him being there and that's the issue with his character, he needed more missions that were all about him and his life and the hood.

 

[Homicidal Hipster]

He's alright. I like him. But he's the weakest of the 3

[AkshayKumar]

Franklin's appearance in GTA Online recently was so cool. He looked like this living legend, in a way no protagonist has looked imo. It made me appreciate his entire character arc a lot more somehow, from doing repo work for Simeon for crap pay to being able to ending up where he could buy Simeon's business a dozen times over if he wished.

 

Franklin remains the same chilled out, grounded guy throughout his story too. He may not be the most interesting but he's perhaps the most easily likeable in the V era. It's nice that he got with Tanisha too in the end, and if option C was chosen as the ending, he has a near picture perfect arc imo. The only issue with F imo is he feels like he takes a backseat to Michael and Trevor in the middle portion of GTA V's story but that's probably the side effect of multiple protagonists in a 69 mission story. He still played his role well and has the most important role in the climax.

 

Franklin and Lamar's conversations in the Contract are a really fun listen too. F really made it. 

 

I just wish we see Michael and Simeon again but after Rockstar making that goodbye message to GTA V/Online I don't think it's happening. 

[Ryo256]

Franklin being boring because he is supposed to be relatable is not a good argument IMO because characters like Niko and Arthur can be relatable without being boring. 

Secondly if you play video games to watch people do chores then I think you need to reconsider your view on video games, this is not a discouragement of your current view, just that you need to be a little more elaborate because we invented video games to do things that aren't chores. So it's strange to me when someone is happy about coming full circle, from escaping chores to admiring a protagonist doing them, and it's not even a mini-game or something.

Thirdly, if Franklin was your average joe, him only doing chores would be make sense but this is a gang member, a hired killer and skilled robber. Such a character should not be only doing chores. Key word "only" remember that. Franklin was promoted to be interesting but ended up not being interesting hence the criticism.

Fourthly, Tanisha and Franklin relationship's problem is not the existence of the relationship. It is that when you try to present her as something important to him then you need to develop it. And also if you think the story of Franklin and Tanisha is some boy chasing a girl then you do not understand what actually happened. Tanisha is an EX of Franklin. She is an EX that doesn't want to be with him. She is an EX who is already with someone. She is an EX who is close to getting married to that said someone. And Franklin is constantly sending her emails and calling her, convincing her that she should be with her because he got money now while sitting in a strip club. If you think that's normal. If you think that's relatable. Then I think you need to take a hard look at yourself because chasing your EX like that is not healthy, and you don't need me to tell you about it, ask anyone. And it's not entertaining either, it's pathetic (no offence to anyone). Especially since Tanisha comes back in Lamar Down to diss Franklin again and tell him to go save Lamar like she matters. Would be nice if you developed her but no. And after all that I have explained, she ends up with Franklin anyway in Online. You think that's nice? That's equal to Johnny ending up in the desert to get killed by Trevor while being drugged up when he spent his whole life doing the opposite. Tanisha spent the whole time in GTA V rejecting Franklin and being with someone else only to end up with him offscreen (think about it, she ended with someone who she geninuely thinks is a bad partner, who she painfully made it clear can't provide her what she needs, she somehow ended up marrying Franklin and having kids with him when she was already with someone who she geninuely thought was a good partner, she ditched that said partner for someone she thought was a bad partner....do I need to explain what's wrong with this? Especially when it's done offscreen?). That's not nice IMO. And you know what's funny, Trevor and Patricia relationship has more development and connection than this relationship and it is both funny and sad to me that GTA V ran the important relationships down into the ground but somehow developed the low-priority comic-relief one. Absolutely hilarious if you ask me.

Fifthly, Franklin's whining isn't the problem. It's the fact that he whines more than doing something about it. Throughout GTA V story, he does nothing on his own (except for Ending A/B which you can count as his development but people pick C and insist that's canon so yes, Franklin stays the same until he gets an instant upgrade offscreen in Online but considering Tanisha problem, I consider it a shallow upgrade like him just getting a new house just like that, not earning it like say Tommy stealing a mansion off his enemy. They need to show him earning it, they could have done that in GTA V but no, after 8 years of nothing, *poof* he's successful because we told you so, no, do not tell, show it). The problem is that, Franklin is a cutout archetype of CJ to attract GTA SA fans and people will say that's not true yet there was no reason to pick Los Santos if it wasn't to attract GTA SA fans. And they even make him go back and help Lamar because GANG MATTERS even though he was supposed to above that but they did that because CJ did that in the end too, see the connection? Thus after saying that, CJ whines too but you also see his journey, from small, to surviving in San Fierro, to building casino and robbing rival casino in Las Venturas, to losing himself to success until his brother sets him straight, to him working for the hood again, to finally becoming more responsible (at least narratively). You don't get that with Franklin, CJ's whining is justifed. Franklin just whines. That's what people don't like about him.

Edited September 14 by Ryo256

[MaddenedGhost]

8 hours ago, AkshayKumar said:

Franklin's appearance in GTA Online recently was so cool. He looked like this living legend, in a way no protagonist has looked imo. It made me appreciate his entire character arc a lot more somehow, from doing repo work for Simeon for crap pay to being able to ending up where he could buy Simeon's business a dozen times over if he wished.

 

Franklin remains the same chilled out, grounded guy throughout his story too. He may not be the most interesting but he's perhaps the most easily likeable in the V era. It's nice that he got with Tanisha too in the end, and if option C was chosen as the ending, he has a near picture perfect arc imo. The only issue with F imo is he feels like he takes a backseat to Michael and Trevor in the middle portion of GTA V's story but that's probably the side effect of multiple protagonists in a 69 mission story. He still played his role well and has the most important role in the climax.

 

Franklin and Lamar's conversations in the Contract are a really fun listen too. F really made it. 

 

I just wish we see Michael and Simeon again but after Rockstar making that goodbye message to GTA V/Online I don't think it's happening. 

The best part about The Contract was Lamar and Franklin's short trip missions, they were so cool, all the references to the missions in story mode, it was all very nostalgic and very well done.

There's a big chance that the next update is featuring Michael, which, if they give him some missions similar to the Short Trip ones, it would be perfect.

[Algonquin Assassin]

I didn’t mind Franklin for the most part, but I think he would’ve been better off as a DLC protagonist.

 

As others have said he comes off as kind of a third wheel and gets everything given to him. Even CJ and Vic had to work to get what they got.

 

He’s certainly not a bad character, but just a little bland and not given the right tools to grow and develop.

Edited September 14 by Algonquin Assassin

[Krooked_]

1 hour ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

I didn’t mind Franklin for the most part, but I think he would’ve been better off as a DLC protagonist.

 

As others have said he comes off as kind of a third wheel and gets everything given to him. Even CJ and Vic had to work to get what they got.

 

He’s certainly not a bad character, but just a little bland and not given the right tools to grow and develop.

Yeah, not making him a DLC character or at the very least giving him more gang related missions was a wasted opportunity. The Long Stretch and Hood Safari are probably one of my favorite missions for this reason.

Edited September 14 by Krooked_

[MaddenedGhost]

37 minutes ago, Krooked_ said:

Yeah, not making him a DLC character or at the very least giving him more gang related missions was a wasted opportunity. The Long Stretch and Hood Safari are probably one of my favorite missions for this reason.

Always my problem with him, he needed like 7 or 8 missions before he meets Michael.

[D T]

On 9/14/2022 at 3:38 AM, Ryo256 said:

Franklin being boring because he is supposed to be relatable is not a good argument IMO because characters like Niko and Arthur can be relatable without being boring. 

Secondly if you play video games to watch people do chores then I think you need to reconsider your view on video games, this is not a discouragement of your current view, just that you need to be a little more elaborate because we invented video games to do things that aren't chores. So it's strange to me when someone is happy about coming full circle, from escaping chores to admiring a protagonist doing them, and it's not even a mini-game or something.

Thirdly, if Franklin was your average joe, him only doing chores would be make sense but this is a gang member, a hired killer and skilled robber. Such a character should not be only doing chores. Key word "only" remember that. Franklin was promoted to be interesting but ended up not being interesting hence the criticism.

Fourthly, Tanisha and Franklin relationship's problem is not the existence of the relationship. It is that when you try to present her as something important to him then you need to develop it. And also if you think the story of Franklin and Tanisha is some boy chasing a girl then you do not understand what actually happened. Tanisha is an EX of Franklin. She is an EX that doesn't want to be with him. She is an EX who is already with someone. She is an EX who is close to getting married to that said someone. And Franklin is constantly sending her emails and calling her, convincing her that she should be with her because he got money now while sitting in a strip club. If you think that's normal. If you think that's relatable. Then I think you need to take a hard look at yourself because chasing your EX like that is not healthy, and you don't need me to tell you about it, ask anyone. And it's not entertaining either, it's pathetic (no offence to anyone). Especially since Tanisha comes back in Lamar Down to diss Franklin again and tell him to go save Lamar like she matters. Would be nice if you developed her but no. And after all that I have explained, she ends up with Franklin anyway in Online. You think that's nice? That's equal to Johnny ending up in the desert to get killed by Trevor while being drugged up when he spent his whole life doing the opposite. Tanisha spent the whole time in GTA V rejecting Franklin and being with someone else only to end up with him offscreen (think about it, she ended with someone who she geninuely thinks is a bad partner, who she painfully made it clear can't provide her what she needs, she somehow ended up marrying Franklin and having kids with him when she was already with someone who she geninuely thought was a good partner, she ditched that said partner for someone she thought was a bad partner....do I need to explain what's wrong with this? Especially when it's done offscreen?). That's not nice IMO. And you know what's funny, Trevor and Patricia relationship has more development and connection than this relationship and it is both funny and sad to me that GTA V ran the important relationships down into the ground but somehow developed the low-priority comic-relief one. Absolutely hilarious if you ask me.

Fifthly, Franklin's whining isn't the problem. It's the fact that he whines more than doing something about it. Throughout GTA V story, he does nothing on his own (except for Ending A/B which you can count as his development but people pick C and insist that's canon so yes, Franklin stays the same until he gets an instant upgrade offscreen in Online but considering Tanisha problem, I consider it a shallow upgrade like him just getting a new house just like that, not earning it like say Tommy stealing a mansion off his enemy. They need to show him earning it, they could have done that in GTA V but no, after 8 years of nothing, *poof* he's successful because we told you so, no, do not tell, show it). The problem is that, Franklin is a cutout archetype of CJ to attract GTA SA fans and people will say that's not true yet there was no reason to pick Los Santos if it wasn't to attract GTA SA fans. And they even make him go back and help Lamar because GANG MATTERS even though he was supposed to above that but they did that because CJ did that in the end too, see the connection? Thus after saying that, CJ whines too but you also see his journey, from small, to surviving in San Fierro, to building casino and robbing rival casino in Las Venturas, to losing himself to success until his brother sets him straight, to him working for the hood again, to finally becoming more responsible (at least narratively). You don't get that with Franklin, CJ's whining is justifed. Franklin just whines. That's what people don't like about him.

I think people tend to hyperfixate on Franklin in areas where they wouldn't for other protagonists. Franklin's attachment to Tanisha didn't NEED to be developed any further. Could it have? For sure. In a way though she acted as a stand in for the unrequited love we've all experienced in life. It's easy to fill in the blanks and I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's clear what Rockstar tried to convey through the trio: Trevor is the player as he acts in-game and Franklin is the player as they act in real life. Michael represents the idealized future we long for in both mediums. The plot is solely meant to highlight the futility in it all.

 

You can bring up the hired killer sh*t and Franklin being a creep, but none of that matters in a game like GTA. These despicable actions don't hold the same weight they would in our non satirical world. Niko trafficked humans but nobody hyperanalyzes that aspect of his character when they catch him doing boring ass minigames like bowling with Roman. Arthur Morgan murdered dozens in cold blood and yet we find the dude relatable because his fee fees are hurt by the end of the game. Fair enough. But there's a suspension of belief that's required to humanize any of these monsters, let alone find them relatable. These stories are metaphorical and that's the whole point of fiction brother.

 

I can't think of a single protagonist that DIDN'T whine like a f*cking baby. Tommy Vercetti cries about his associates being pricks, CJ reluctantly stole a goofy ass jetpack for Truth because why not, Niko hated nearly everyone he worked with, Johnny whined about Billy constantly, Luis couldn't stop moaning about his friends dragging him into sh*t. And that's fair too. We're all human. CJ becoming a successful business man by the end of the game doesn't somehow negate his whining. To call Franklin a cutout archetype of him is ridiculous too, considering there is virtually nothing similar between the two besides ethnicity. I reckon Johnny is closer to Franklin than anyone else, seeing as they both wanted out of gang life and continuously let their exes dictate their actions. And to be clear, he went back to help Lamar because he considered him a friend, not because he felt any sentimental attachment towards the Families. 

 

Also, I don't consider GTA Online canon in the slightest. Dan has been gone for ages now and I'm pretty sure they have a B team writing the dialogue for those updates now because it's sh*t.

[Ryo256]

1 hour ago, D T said:

I think people tend to hyperfixate on Franklin in areas where they wouldn't for other protagonists. Franklin's attachment to Tanisha didn't NEED to be developed any further. Could it have? For sure. In a way though she acted as a stand in for the unrequited love we've all experienced in life. It's easy to fill in the blanks and I don't think it's that big of a deal.

That we can agree on but he did end up marrying her anyway in Online. That happened, you can go complain about Rockstar but your argument will have this hole that R* manage to drill in without realizing what they just did. And as long as people consider it canon, I have power in my arguments because I can use it against said people, not necessarily you though.

 

1 hour ago, D T said:

It's clear what Rockstar tried to convey through the trio: Trevor is the player as he acts in-game and Franklin is the player as they act in real life. Michael represents the idealized future we long for in both mediums. The plot is solely meant to highlight the futility in it all.

I could elaborate on this but this is another topic and I will spare us both the trouble.

 

1 hour ago, D T said:

You can bring up the hired killer sh*t and Franklin being a creep, but none of that matters in a game like GTA. These despicable actions don't hold the same weight they would in our non satirical world. Niko trafficked humans but nobody hyperanalyzes that aspect of his character when they catch him doing boring ass minigames like bowling with Roman. Arthur Morgan murdered dozens in cold blood and yet we find the dude relatable because his fee fees are hurt by the end of the game. Fair enough. But there's a suspension of belief that's required to humanize any of these monsters, let alone find them relatable. These stories are metaphorical and that's the whole point of fiction brother.

That's not the point I was making though but strangely, you ended up arguing it for me in your own way. You agree that you can be relatable and still have interesting points. Henceforth the argument that "oh so for the sake of making Franklin relatable, we made him do really mundane stuff most of the time" and I'm like yea but other protagonists are relatable without making them do too much mundane stuff. The argument is, even if you do not agree, is that the balance of these things is not kept well for Franklin and instead of people considering it, they rationalize and say, well that's because we want to make him more relatable and I'm like you can achieve that without sacrificing interesting aspects as you demostrated with your examples. Furthermore, you can't tell me that Franklin is the most relatable character when he is a hired killer and a creep. So you can't push that as a starting point, it's not what makes Franklin unique, is what I was saying. He is as relatable as any protagonists as you gave example of but he is seriously not as interesting as them is what I am arguing. Henceforth, people's lack of interest in him is justified.
 

1 hour ago, D T said:

I can't think of a single protagonist that DIDN'T whine like a f*cking baby. Tommy Vercetti cries about his associates being pricks, CJ reluctantly stole a goofy ass jetpack for Truth because why not, Niko hated nearly everyone he worked with, Johnny whined about Billy constantly, Luis couldn't stop moaning about his friends dragging him into sh*t. And that's fair too. We're all human. CJ becoming a successful business man by the end of the game doesn't somehow negate his whining.

All of them did something about it. Yes that negates their whining. Because you whine and do something relevant about it. Franklin whines about being poor but he did not earn that new house. Franklin whines about doing nothing anything on his own but everything except a few things like Ending A/B are not his calls at all. He complains about being led around by everyone and continues to do so. What might work in your favor is what he did in Online but clearly you don't agree with that so yes. He is as he started (unless you pick Ending A/B). But rest of the protagonists in my opinion, whined, did something about it, I seen it myself and I am proud of their accomplishments. I see Franklin whine, does nothing relevant most of the time, gets something through something else, gets led around by others and *poof* he's successful 8 years later. How? Why? I dunno, just fill in the blank, it's not the writers' job or anything. When you can just fill in everything yourself, amirite?

 

1 hour ago, D T said:

To call Franklin a cutout archetype of him is ridiculous too, considering there is virtually nothing similar between the two besides ethnicity.

Where do all the "gang is important" trope comes from then? I demostrated how they are same. I even told you why I think we are in Los Santos of all places in V. I can even go and show you even more shallow mimicry of GTA SA by V but that's a different topic. Franklin exists because of CJ fans. Otherwise there is no reason for him to be a Green Gang member where he is being nagged about growing up, not forgetting his roots and then finally be true to his homies. 

 

1 hour ago, D T said:

I reckon Johnny is closer to Franklin than anyone else, seeing as they both wanted out of gang life and continuously let their exes dictate their actions.

Ah....I think Luis is a better counterpoint but the way you picked Johnny is sorta strange since he is a gang fanatic and actually dislike his EX while Franklin chases his. Also funny enough, I would say that Johnny and CJ do share a similar archetype which I highlighted in that area so in a way, your argument works in my favor.

 

1 hour ago, D T said:

And to be clear, he went back to help Lamar because he considered him a friend, not because he felt any sentimental attachment towards the Families. 

Well actually you need to compare what Sweet said to CJ with what Tanisha tells Franklin (especially in Lamar Down) about not being selfish, and how CJ and Franklin responds to their initial advice and then what they end up doing in the end regarding what they are reminded of, do not forget the ones you grew up with. That's not the only similarity I can point out though but I do not intend to go through every dialogue to explain how I see the simliarity between CJ and Franklin because I think it's too much work right now and I ask for your sympathy in this matter.
 

1 hour ago, D T said:

Also, I don't consider GTA Online canon in the slightest. Dan has been gone for ages now and I'm pretty sure they have a B team writing the dialogue for those updates now because it's sh*t.

Amen brother but you and I are surrounded by people who use it to tell you that GTA V's Ending C is canon. It may not be canon to you (and to me) but it is here to stay and it tells Franklin's story where they talk about the main story and blah blah, it sadly is connected to the main story. If it did not exist, your Tanisha point would stand along with a moral message that I think Rockstar did a good job on but sadly Rockstar has shot them in the foot. You and I may ignore but what they did to Franklin/Tanisha will exist and as long as people preach the idea that it is canon, then I will use it as part of my argument to show to everyone who consider Online canon that how bad the relationship is.

BTW good arguments. I like them a lot because I don't think I have a strong position as I initially thought I did in the matter. But I have some footing I can stand on for a while.

Edited Thursday at 08:35 PM by Ryo256

[FewPoleCat42]

The Long Stretch is my personal favorite mission and is why, as much as I find Franklin to be a character absolutely ruined by his portrayal in GTA Online, I really wish we could have had more mission like that one. I would have preferred in GTA V was entirely about Franklin so we could actually develop him, then give Michael and Trevor GTA 6, preferably before the Houser brothers were shot in the backs of their heads. As it stands, he's a good character, just very underwhelming compared to CJ, Tommy, Niko, Vic, Johnny, Luis, Michael and Trevor.

[Ryo256]

17 minutes ago, FewPoleCat42 said:

The Long Stretch is my personal favorite mission and is why, as much as I find Franklin to be a character absolutely ruined by his portrayal in GTA Online, I really wish we could have had more mission like that one. I would have preferred in GTA V was entirely about Franklin so we could actually develop him, then give Michael and Trevor GTA 6, preferably before the Houser brothers were shot in the backs of their heads. As it stands, he's a good character, just very underwhelming compared to CJ, Tommy, Niko, Vic, Johnny, Luis, Michael and Trevor.

I would say, almost every Franklin mission is great. Except for Chop. Definitely would have enjoyed more focus on him and I said in another thread that if they didn't introduce Michael or Trevor, I would have never switched off Franklin because the way he is introduced, the way he had potential to carry the game, it was very engaging but sadly he was cut short.