Gta V / Last of Us 1

[Jammsbro]

It just dawned on me.

 

Rockstar gets a ton of crap for releasing Gta V three times on three different generations since 2013.

 

Naughty Dog get high praise for releasing Last of Us three times on three generations since 2013....

[UrbanTheEmcee]

The Last of Us part 2 was released.

Nothing more to say.

[Creed Bratton]

1 hour ago, Jammsbro said:

It just dawned on me.

 

Rockstar gets a ton of crap for releasing Gta V three times on three different generations since 2013.

 

Naughty Dog get high praise for releasing Last of Us three times on three generations since 2013....

Nothing dawned on you. You don't know what you're talking about. They both received praise and criticism. You simply chose to see only one side of the argument and ignore the other.

[Algonquin Assassin]

To give Naughty Dog credit since 2013 they already made DLC for The Last Of Us after its release, the remaster, The Nathan Drake Collection, Uncharted 4, Lost Legacy, The Last Of Is Part II, The Legacy Of Thieves Collection, The Last Of Us Part 1 and they’re developing Factions as a stand alone product and are probably developing Uncharted 5 as we speak. I don’t want to say that is definitely the case, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

 

On the R* front since 2013 they canned single player DLC for GTA V to milk GTAO, put it on the PS4/XB1, then there was a 4 year gap until RDR2, then again another gap until the Definitive Edition debacle and finally GTA V on current gen alongside that stupid GTA+ scam with a small acknowledgement we might finally get GTA Vi before the turn of the century.

 

With that being said Naughty Dog have achieved more since 2013 and their PR department is better too.

 

The only bright spot in the last decade or so for R* is RDR2 and even that’s garnered a bit of controversy with them seemingly no longer giving a toss about RDO anymore.

 

When it comes GTA V and The Last Of Us Part 1 since I own both the former the is a text book definitive bare bones port. Part 1 on the other hand despite what people seem to think is NOT a simple port to run at a higher frame rate with slightly better visuals. I could go deeper into this, but my post is already too long. Maybe late in in the Part 1 thread.
 

All in all for me personally R* deserve all the criticism they’ve been getting and have very little lately to get any praise. Naughty Dog on the other hand atleast try to put out more than one game every decade.

Edited September 2 by Algonquin Assassin

[Zello]

People have been complaining about them charging $70 for the remaster. You’ve just been looking in the wrong places a lot of people are angry.

[Space Cowboy]

As much as I dislike TLOU1 remake pricing, it's an infinitely better value than buying GTA V (again) and it actually brings some notable improvements and upgrades. Rockstar on the other hand offered upgrades similar to what other publishers include in free patches and they asked 40 dollars for it (after the small period of when the game was on sale), with no discount to previous owners. To me it's clear who deserves more criticism imo.

[Zello]

3 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

As much as I dislike TLOU1 remake pricing, it's an infinitely better value than buying GTA V (again) and it actually brings some notable improvements and upgrades.

There have been barely any improvements man…

[sabitsuki]

I aint buying a game to see the same kid die three times man

[TwistOfLime21]

Naughty Dog have released three new games, Last Of Us 2, Uncharted 4 and Uncharted: Lost Legacy whereas Rockstar have only released Red Dead, granted it was a massive game, and several years of little updates.

[DODI3OG]

6 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

As much as I dislike TLOU1 remake pricing, it's an infinitely better value than buying GTA V (again) and it actually brings some notable improvements and upgrades. Rockstar on the other hand offered upgrades similar to what other publishers include in free patches and they asked 40 dollars for it (after the small period of when the game was on sale), with no discount to previous owners. To me it's clear who deserves more criticism imo.

That's why I bought GTA V E&E at $10. I don't think any amount more than that would be worth it.

[Jammsbro]

13 hours ago, UrbanTheEmcee said:

The Last of Us part 2 was released.

Nothing more to say.

RDR2 nothing more to say....

13 hours ago, Creed Bratton said:

Nothing dawned on you. You don't know what you're talking about. They both received praise and criticism. You simply chose to see only one side of the argument and ignore the other.

I saw both sides. V was universally lambasted, laou is being very highly praised, to the point where it seems like reviewers are being paid. I think both are greedy and uneeded.

12 hours ago, Zello said:

People have been complaining about them charging $70 for the remaster. You’ve just been looking in the wrong places a lot of people are angry.

That almost the sole argument, everything is is either praise or very gentle criticism of the indentical gameplay with glowing praise of the customisation, almost as if they don't want to critisice their free copy and ruinthe rep with ND...

12 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

As much as I dislike TLOU1 remake pricing, it's an infinitely better value than buying GTA V (again) and it actually brings some notable improvements and upgrades. Rockstar on the other hand offered upgrades similar to what other publishers include in free patches and they asked 40 dollars for it (after the small period of when the game was on sale), with no discount to previous owners. To me it's clear who deserves more criticism imo.

Rockstar are greedy pigs, yes. ND are greedy but their fans kiss their ass so it's easy to see why you allow yourself to be so blinded. They have literally spent money to release a 70 dollar game that didn't even need to exist. "He last of us fans, we want more of your money, here's a slightly better looking version of what we already sold you twice...."

12 hours ago, Zello said:

There have been barely any improvements man…

None

[Zapper]

23 minutes ago, Jammsbro said:

I saw both sides. V was universally lambasted, laou is being very highly praised, to the point where it seems like reviewers are being paid. I think both are greedy and uneeded.

I don't think that's true, though. TLoU remake faced its fair share of criticism, mainly for the price point, but it's clear that more work went into it than V's current-gen ports, at least visually and mechanically. And if you go by Metacritic, TLoU remake scored only 8 points more than V's PS5 version, which is just fine, since most of V's changes were on the back-end (like completely decoupling physics from frame-rate) for technical reasons.

 

At the end of the day, I sincerely doubt R* gives a sh*t about this stuff at this point of the game's lifecycle. And, you'll always see more people criticising R* as their community is like 10 times larger than ND's.

 

13 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

As much as I dislike TLOU1 remake pricing, it's an infinitely better value than buying GTA V (again) and it actually brings some notable improvements and upgrades. Rockstar on the other hand offered upgrades similar to what other publishers include in free patches and they asked 40 dollars for it (after the small period of when the game was on sale), with no discount to previous owners. To me it's clear who deserves more criticism imo.

I don't agree. I think both products set a very bad precedent for multitudes of reasons. It's laughable that ND entirely removed Factions and still had the audacity to charge not just $60, but a full $70 price. I don't think the improvements are anywhere near as impressive as they needed to be for essentially paying full current-gen price for a remake with less content than the original version, which already has a remaster perfectly playable on modern consoles.

 

V should've been a free patch, sure, but it's R*. They didn't even bother updating the game for Pro/One X, so hoping for a free patch was futile. So, $15-20 would've been the correct price for V's current-gen versions, and $30-40 for TLoU remake.

[TheSantader25]

Both shouldn't have happened. Both companies are milking the games.

[Jammsbro]

11 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

Naughty Dog have released three new games, Last Of Us 2, Uncharted 4 and Uncharted: Lost Legacy whereas Rockstar have only released Red Dead, granted it was a massive game, and several years of little updates.

? Who said that was the point? The point is that ND have just got greedy and milked their fans for a $70 dollar graphics upgrade and sol their game three times on three gen machines. Yet the vitriol rockstar got was not shared to naughty dog, which it should have been. Both are greedy as hell.

[DODI3OG]

If GTA V E&E released with a graphics and little gameplay overhaul, I'd pay $50 max for it. But, changes were very minimal and as somebody said, more on the rendering side. So, I think $10 was justifiable for it.

 

The Last of Us Part 1 on the other hand, even if it released with graphical and little gameplay changes, the $70 retail price is just a little too much. I think its existence was needed, but the retail price needs a little pull.

[TwistOfLime21]

On 9/4/2022 at 1:46 AM, Jammsbro said:

? Who said that was the point? The point is that ND have just got greedy and milked their fans for a $70 dollar graphics upgrade and sol their game three times on three gen machines. Yet the vitriol rockstar got was not shared to naughty dog, which it should have been. Both are greedy as hell.

 

My point is that they're not just milking that one particular game. They've released several others to hold players over. If the only game they released since TLOU in 2013 was the PS4 remaster in 2014 and the eventual PS5 remaster then sure, I'd consider it to be milking their fans. 

Edited September 5 by TwistOfLime21

[Algonquin Assassin]

2 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

 

My point is that they're not just milking that one particular game. They've released several others to hold players over. If the only game they've released since TLOU in 2013 was the remaster PS4 in 2014 and the eventual PS5 remaster then sure, I'd consider it to be milking their fans. 

Another thing to consider is unlike what R*/Take Two did to the GTA trilogy just before the launch of the Definitive  Edition, Naughty Dog didn’t delist the remaster of The Last Of Us so people aren’t being funnelled to only being able to buy/play Part 1. Hell it’s still up on PS Plus.

 

I’m not going to pretend Naughty Dog are saints or anything, but they haven’t done anything that I would consider “greedy” or milking their  fans and certainly not to the extent of the scummy sh*t R* are guilty of.
 

If anything they’re still one of the few developers in the industry who are pro-active and still believe in delivering a finished and quality product that doesn’t require 50 updates to fix to be acceptable. When was the last time a Naughty Dog game launched in buggy and  broken state?
 

That alone is worth the price of admission to me since the last couple of years for big AAA releases have been like playing Russian roulette with a chainsaw.

 

Anyway when it comes to R* I’m disappointed that they seem a shell of their former selves. There not longer that “factor” I remember from all the way back when they were DMA Design. The sad thing is the R* of today would’ve been parodied by the old guard 20 years ago, but we probably should’ve seen it coming about a decade when the rot started to slowly set in. GTA V on current gen sets a worrying precedent that that legitimately makes me worried GTA VI will nothing nothing, but designed to be a revenue maker.

 

Edited September 5 by Algonquin Assassin

[Ducard]

Regardless of what you think of the actual game itself, GTA V on the PS3/X360 was/is a masterpiece on a technical level. Rockstar squeezed every inch of power on those consoles. We are talking about a game in 2013, releasing on a console from 2005. That's just insane and the fact it was fairly well optimized puts some of the launches today to shame.

 

So in that regard, I'm in agreement with you when you imply that releasing GTA V for the PS4/Xbox One was necessary and warrants some praise. But I think you fail to understand that the PS4/Xbox One versions brought massive improvements both visually and gameplay wise. The game ran at 1080p with a butter smooth 30 fps as opposed to 720p with dips below 30 fps. This was and still is an insane difference in visual fidelity. This doesn't take into account the improved foliage, improved lighting, aliasing, textures, increased traffic density/variety, increased pedestrian density and so on. On top of it, we also had the first person camera/cockpit view added, which added more replay value. There was also more content added gameplay wise too. It was a great package and honestly a fantastic remaster that was well worth the price and also extremely necessary.

 

Fast forward to 2022 and we get GTA V: E&E which is absolute garbage. Sure, it runs at 4k and/or 60 FPS but contrary to what some may think, 4K gaming still is an expensive hobby in many parts of the world so this doesn't really make a huge difference for a lot of people who normally play at 1080p. The visuals look the exact same as the PS4/Xbox One version. There's no new gameplay content. Raytracing is an absolute shambles and not even implemented properly. The trailer for the game itself was probably the worst trailer put out by Rockstar in recent memory. Everything about it reeked of being a cash grab. Also, considering that it's been 9 years since the last GTA, re-releasing a 2013 game with barely any improvements isn't going to go down well with a fanbase that has been starved of quality singleplayer content. Also, given the shortage of next-gen consoles, re-releasing GTA 5 for PS5/Series X doesn't make much sense from a multiplayer perspective either, given that most of the fanbase is still on the old gen versions.

 

The Last of Us also largely followed the same trajectory as GTA V. It was also a technical masterpiece and pushed the limits of the PS3. It also released towards the end of the PS3's lifecycle and as such warranted a remaster for the PS4. However TLOU's remaster merely bumped up the resolution, increased the frame rate to 60 fps and made the game playable on PS4. It was still, in essence, a PS3 game. I'd argue that if the PS4 was backwards compatible, TLOU would never have been "remastered" for the PS4. The main purpose of the remaster was to ensure that people who were buying a PS4, and had missed out on the PS3, would still be able to play the game. The visual upgrades were minor.

 

The Last of Us on the PS5, on the other hand, does completely revamp the game's visuals. It looks stunning. The facial animations have been improved, lighting has been improved, textures have been improved, general animations have been improved. it runs at 4K. It essentially looks just as good as Part 2. To top it off, the game's AI has been revamped. Many subtle changes have been made to the game's combat. Gameplay in general feels a lot more smoother. Part 2's gameplay modifiers have been added which improves replay value. Accessibility options too have been carried over which may not be useful for people like you and me but many people suffering from physical handicaps would surely appreciate them. Compared to E&E, the remake boasts of plenty of improvements. IMO, I'd argue that a PS5 re-release was necessary for TLOU. I love the original but anyone who has played it knows that it is outdated from a gameplay perspective. Watching the videos, you can clearly see that Naughty Dog have put in plenty of effort in the remake.
 

That being said, I don't defend the pricing of the remake. It is way too expensive despite the improvements. Should have been 40-50 dollars at best. 

 

I understand that this has been a long post but I'm sick of people grouping TLOU's PS5 remake and GTA V's PS4 remaster with the abomination that was GTA V: E&E. IMO, only one of these was truly a a cash grab, low effort and not needed at all.

[Algonquin Assassin]

2 hours ago, Ducard said:

Regardless of what you think of the actual game itself, GTA V on the PS3/X360 was/is a masterpiece on a technical level. Rockstar squeezed every inch of power on those consoles. We are talking about a game in 2013, releasing on a console from 2005. That's just insane and the fact it was fairly well optimized puts some of the launches today to shame.

 

So in that regard, I'm in agreement with you when you imply that releasing GTA V for the PS4/Xbox One was necessary and warrants some praise. But I think you fail to understand that the PS4/Xbox One versions brought massive improvements both visually and gameplay wise. The game ran at 1080p with a butter smooth 30 fps as opposed to 720p with dips below 30 fps. This was and still is an insane difference in visual fidelity. This doesn't take into account the improved foliage, improved lighting, aliasing, textures, increased traffic density/variety, increased pedestrian density and so on. On top of it, we also had the first person camera/cockpit view added, which added more replay value. There was also more content added gameplay wise too. It was a great package and honestly a fantastic remaster that was well worth the price and also extremely necessary.

 

Fast forward to 2022 and we get GTA V: E&E which is absolute garbage. Sure, it runs at 4k and/or 60 FPS but contrary to what some may think, 4K gaming still is an expensive hobby in many parts of the world so this doesn't really make a huge difference for a lot of people who normally play at 1080p. The visuals look the exact same as the PS4/Xbox One version. There's no new gameplay content. Raytracing is an absolute shambles and not even implemented properly. The trailer for the game itself was probably the worst trailer put out by Rockstar in recent memory. Everything about it reeked of being a cash grab. Also, considering that it's been 9 years since the last GTA, re-releasing a 2013 game with barely any improvements isn't going to go down well with a fanbase that has been starved of quality singleplayer content. Also, given the shortage of next-gen consoles, re-releasing GTA 5 for PS5/Series X doesn't make much sense from a multiplayer perspective either, given that most of the fanbase is still on the old gen versions.

 

The Last of Us also largely followed the same trajectory as GTA V. It was also a technical masterpiece and pushed the limits of the PS3. It also released towards the end of the PS3's lifecycle and as such warranted a remaster for the PS4. However TLOU's remaster merely bumped up the resolution, increased the frame rate to 60 fps and made the game playable on PS4. It was still, in essence, a PS3 game. I'd argue that if the PS4 was backwards compatible, TLOU would never have been "remastered" for the PS4. The main purpose of the remaster was to ensure that people who were buying a PS4, and had missed out on the PS3, would still be able to play the game. The visual upgrades were minor.

 

The Last of Us on the PS5, on the other hand, does completely revamp the game's visuals. It looks stunning. The facial animations have been improved, lighting has been improved, textures have been improved, general animations have been improved. it runs at 4K. It essentially looks just as good as Part 2. To top it off, the game's AI has been revamped. Many subtle changes have been made to the game's combat. Gameplay in general feels a lot more smoother. Part 2's gameplay modifiers have been added which improves replay value. Accessibility options too have been carried over which may not be useful for people like you and me but many people suffering from physical handicaps would surely appreciate them. Compared to E&E, the remake boasts of plenty of improvements. IMO, I'd argue that a PS5 re-release was necessary for TLOU. I love the original but anyone who has played it knows that it is outdated from a gameplay perspective. Watching the videos, you can clearly see that Naughty Dog have put in plenty of effort in the remake.
 

That being said, I don't defend the pricing of the remake. It is way too expensive despite the improvements. Should have been 40-50 dollars at best. 

 

I understand that this has been a long post but I'm sick of people grouping TLOU's PS5 remake and GTA V's PS4 remaster with the abomination that was GTA V: E&E. IMO, only one of these was truly a a cash grab, low effort and not needed at all.

Long post, but you know what I find interesting coming to think about it?

 

As much as I’m not the biggest fan of GTA V my favourite version is the PS4 version. As you said it brought key improvements to resolution, frame rate, environmental details etc, but R*  also (if you can believe it) gave returning players content for making the upgrade.

 

With the The Last Of Us remaster I didn’t see the point of grabbing it in 2014 so I waited about 3 years until it was preowned. For all the crap Part 1 gets for its pricing, needing to exist etc that’s how I felt about the remaster in 2014. Maybe it wasn’t “$70” expensive, but it was still sold at full price in Australia from what I remember and for a slight bump in resolution it was a no go for me when the original game was barely a year old. IMO the remaster should’ve come out as a launch title for the PS4 Pro.

 

Fast forward to 2022 and the switch  has been flipped once more. The $99 AUD I spent on Part 1 has given a quality experience more than the $15 AUD I paid for GTA V on PS5. Madness.

Edited September 5 by Algonquin Assassin

[DODI3OG]

4 hours ago, Ducard said:

4K gaming still is an expensive hobby in many parts of the world so this doesn't really make a huge difference for a lot of people who normally play at 1080p.

This is what I keep telling people, especially on Reddit.

 

Nobody would f*cking believe me. They think it's just because I can't afford a 4k TV and I'm projecting it on everybody else. SRSLY?? I told them wth did Sony opt for 4k right away when they could have just focused on 1440p which is the middle ground and obviously the go-to monitor size. Guess what they told me? Everybody has 4k TVs. Like whut? I don't know that many people who own 4k TVs, even abroad. It's still a luxury. Especially considering most $500 4K TVs aren't really outputting native 4K to begin with.

 

In many parts of the world, people just don't dispose their TVs just because newer TVs with higher resolutions are coming out. Also, other than HDR, there can be no difference in PPI between 4k and lower res TVs, unless viewed from a particular distance. Reasonably, larger TVs should have higher resolution. Otherwise the picture is gonna look muddy when viewed up-close. Smaller TVs don't need high resolutions since the PPI will not make that much difference anyway.

 

AFAIK, the best 1440p monitors above $500 come jam-packed with excellent features, but 4K displays at that price point are still on entry-level. It's basically a ripoff not spending $800 above. And srsly? These sony fanboys would tell me that I spent $500 on a console, so I should spend another $500-1000 on a display like WTF? That's how they think with their wallet. No wonder people are so unhappy these days. Either that or they tell me to buy a PC. Srsly. I bought a console and you want me to spend money on something that's gonna be more expensive to build than my mid-level console, excluding the 1440p display.