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Impending doom for GTA 6 (and Rockstar as a whole)...


jamesos
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I hate even making a post like this because I already know the assumption many of you will make. That I'm an edgy, conservative agitator that's hyper-obsessed with "THE WOKE FAKE NEWS LIBERAL MEDIA POISONING OUR YOUTH AND RUINING MUH ENTERTAINMENT", which is not the case, but nonetheless I am very concerned for the future of Rockstar and think I should be able to rant about this without being labeled as a bigot, troll, edgelord, etc.

 

(also this rant is based off of leaks that none of us are sure are even true yet, so just know that I am fully aware of this and I could be completely wrong in my anxiety.)

 

With the recent leaks about the nature of the upcoming GTA, and its change in what it is satirizing, I fear that the GTA we once knew, is gone forever. Not even solely because I feel that the change is spurned by current outrage culture, but because the heart and soul of what I feel made Rockstar what it was (Benzies, Lazlow, and the Housers), has almost completely departed; and a part of me feels as if these very people departed because they saw they sinking ship that is becoming Rockstar. Of course, some of the change that will come will be for the better, the whole crunch and frat like hazing culture is very nauseating and disheartening,  and I'm glad it has been addressed. Though, when it comes to the desire to shift from "punching down," it does leave a sour taste in my mouth, and makes me think whoever is running the show at Rockstar is completely sackless and are doing whatever they can to appeal to the masses, and more importantly, TakeTwo.

 

Part of what gives the Grand Theft Auto games in particular its signature satire, is that it doesn't necessarily punch up or down, and indiscriminately parodies ALL facets of American culture. What I see now in the future, is a series that panders rather than gives a finger to the idiocracy of both sides of our socio-political climate. I'm not even saying the writing needs to constantly throw in transphobic, homophobic, or racist jokes to maintain its aesthetic, but what I am saying is that the writers feeling as if they need to side step in order to not offend anyone, is a serious issue; and one that applies to pretty much every form of media now. I guess the difference is, when it comes to all other media and entertainment companies, I half expect this kind of egg shell walking, but never did I ever expect to hear this from Rockstar. Even with how low they've fallen in recent years. 

 

I hope I'm wrong in my fears, but the fact that Dan Houser said only a couple years ago that they weren't even sure what they would satire with how fragile society is, and now only shortly after he left we receive news that the ballsyness that made Rockstar what it was will essentially be removed, gives me major doubt for the future of the company. Let me know what you guys think though....

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12 hours ago, jamesos said:

it doesn't necessarily punch up or down, and indiscriminately parodies ALL facets of American culture. What I see now in the future, is a series that panders rather than gives a finger to the idiocracy of both sides of our socio-political climate.

 

If you're taking shots at everyone, then you're punching up and down because everyone is not equally powerful. What would be your definition of pandering? Removing the trans jokes? I don't think of peoples' gender identity as inherently political. Was changing III due to 9/11 pandering to conservatives? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to find out where you're coming from.

 

12 hours ago, jamesos said:

what I am saying is that the writers feeling as if they need to side step in order to not offend anyone, is a serious issue

 

Why? There have always been cultural taboos for all of human history, and in many cases they have forced comedians to be more creative in response. Look at how many classic cable TV jokes were born out of sidestepping network censorship. Honestly, 9 times out of 10, what people take issue with are the laziest jokes that are extremely unoriginal, where the punchline is just "haha, dude in womens clothing".

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2 hours ago, suicidehummer said:

If you're taking shots at everyone, then you're punching up and down because everyone is not equally powerful. What would be your definition of pandering? Removing the trans jokes? I don't think of peoples' gender identity as inherently political. Was changing III due to 9/11 pandering to conservatives? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to find out where you're coming from.

maybe he thinks that satire in next GTA will be literally "conservatives bad, now laugh" and other side won't be punched, because that would be attacking allies of discriminated groups

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18 hours ago, jamesos said:

but what I am saying is that the writers feeling as if they need to side step in order to not offend anyone, is a serious issue;

 

I'm with you for the most part, but this is where you fall short. 

 

GTA is not and never has been as unfiltered as you are suggesting. There has always been things they have avoided and removed in fear of a ban and public outcry.

 

  • No kids at all, ever, in a GTA game.
  • Twin Towers removed from GTA III pre-release to appease audience sensitivity to the topic at the time.
  • Removal of sex simulation from San Andreas to meet a better rating.
  • Every GTA they have ever made has been censored by Rockstar to some degree for release in certain territories, namely Australia.
  • GTA Vice City was censored on re-release in 2004 to remove offensive minority lines about Haitians and Cubans. It is not new what they did in the remasters.
  • Decapitation no longer used after SD era games.
  • Dismemberment no longer possible after SD era games.
  • The entire debacle that is gore in Manhunt and them seemingly forgetting the franchise exists.
  • Bully renamed to 'Canis Canem Edit' in certain territories because of the controversial nature of the name.

 

Not to mention the fact that their entire satire is left leaning anti-capitalism. So to say it's an even playing field in terms of their satire is laughable.

 

 

Edited by DarkDayz
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I'm pretty sure this GTA game is going to be just fine. It's going to have all the crime, debauchery, and social commentary these games usually do. If you're worried that it's not offending certain parts of the population enough, why? Why does it need to? I mean, I'd like to think the GTA games have points beyond just being edgy and offending everyone, I like to think they have actual stuff to say, even if I still want to blow up a traffic jam with a tank in most of them.

 

Thing is, I've seen works intended just to offend, and, they're kinda sh*t. Postal 2, for example, is all about offending everyone, and as a result is the kind of game that thinks using a cat's ass as a silencer is SO FUNNY that it doesn't ever need to try harder than that, so it's all just piss jokes and gore and the high level of environmental interactions don't matter as it all goes towards just repeatedly shouting in your face "I BET THIS WOULD OFFEND YOUR LOCAL CHURCH MINISTER" and the thing is that it just starts to feel lazy. Say what you will about GTA's penchant for immature humor, at least it also has decent stories to interact with and reasons to do what you're doing. Postal 2, by comparison, is just a mess of 3edgy5me tropes that can be fun to engage in if you're looking for that sort of thing, but otherwise come off as a really lazy imitation of better adult oriented comedy, and GTA is better than that. Many could argue not much better, but still better.

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19 hours ago, suicidehummer said:

What people take issue with are the laziest jokes that are extremely unoriginal, where the punchline is just "haha, dude in womens clothing".

Why take issue when that 'joke' is not even one of GTA V's main focuses to begin with?

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Eternal Moonshine
On 8/2/2022 at 6:09 PM, jamesos said:

Part of what gives the Grand Theft Auto games in particular its signature satire

Yeah, nah. GTA humor is pretty shallow actually. It's not clever, it's not that funny. It's just mostly vulgar, full of dick jokes and hypocritical people yelling at each other. There's no real message or meaning behind it. South Park's been far more successful at poking fun at American society. Meanwhile Rockstar's been like "look, it's the Apple logo but it kinda looks like a dick haha". It was mildly amusing 14 years ago but i don't think i really want to see just more of the same after all these years. I want something slightly more ambitious

Edited by Eternal Moonshine
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Hey anybody checks internet in GTA IV.

 

I did not lie, some jokes turns out to be true 10 years after.

 

There is no need of satire game, when reality tops it and destroy of sheer amount of stupidity.

 

That pronouns, multiple sexes stupidity that is flooding western world, even GTA writers will never come with this as joke. Its like fever dream idea, seriously.

 

But we also doesnt need game which is 1:1 to real world. Games are escapism, they try to ruin it in every media. I wonder why, we live in wrong timeline...

 

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19 hours ago, Super Shizuku said:

Why take issue when that 'joke' is not even one of GTA V's main focuses to begin with?

 

Why does a joke have to be an arbitrarily and subjectively defined "main focus" to merit criticism? Something that was included as an afterthought can have an outsized negative impact depending on what it is. In the midst of a massive political "culture war" that lately centers around the validity of trans people, even a small remark can have a big impact. It's like saying "what's the big deal with making jokes about witches?" in the middle of the Salem witch trials.

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Why do so many people believe the satire is in jeopardy? It seems pretty clear to me that what that article is referring to is that they just aren't going to be doing the kinds of things that they've already removed from previous games. None of which was the "satire".

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On 8/3/2022 at 5:03 AM, DarkDayz said:

 

I'm with you for the most part, but this is where you fall short. 

 

GTA is not and never has been as unfiltered as you are suggesting. There has always been things they have avoided and removed in fear of a ban and public outcry.

 

  • No kids at all, ever, in a GTA game.
  • Twin Towers removed from GTA III pre-release to appease audience sensitivity to the topic at the time.
  • Removal of sex simulation from San Andreas to meet a better rating.
  • Every GTA they have ever made has been censored by Rockstar to some degree for release in certain territories, namely Australia.
  • GTA Vice City was censored on re-release in 2004 to remove offensive minority lines about Haitians and Cubans. It is not new what they did in the remasters.
  • Decapitation no longer used after SD era games.
  • Dismemberment no longer possible after SD era games.
  • The entire debacle that is gore in Manhunt and them seemingly forgetting the franchise exists.
  • Bully renamed to 'Canis Canem Edit' in certain territories because of the controversial nature of the name.

 

Not to mention the fact that their entire satire is left leaning anti-capitalism. So to say it's an even playing field in terms of their satire is laughable.

 

 

I mean the gore part will probably come back since it's gonna be an upgraded version of the rdr2 version of rage and probably have expanded amounts of gore ngl

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48 minutes ago, loops said:

I mean the gore part will probably come back since it's gonna be an upgraded version of the rdr2 version of rage and probably have expanded amounts of gore ngl

gore in videogames causes wayyy less controversy then it did back then

 

so yes, I believe gore will be fine and great.

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Gore's as much a visual style thing as anything. A game being 18+ or realistic looking doesn't automatically mean having gore is a good choice. I would never class GTA as a series known for it's gore my self, I know the 3D era had limbs you could blow off but it was all very cartoony and fit the old visual style. The gore in RDR2 works really well given the very grounded and gritty world that brought in survival aspects and a heavier emphasis on things like hunting but that doesn't automatically mean it'll work great in VI, so I wouldn't be surprised if the gore in VI is turned down from RDR2's level my self.

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

Gore's as much a visual style thing as anything. A game being 18+ or realistic looking doesn't automatically mean having gore is a good choice. I would never class GTA as a series known for it's gore my self, I know the 3D era had limbs you could blow off but it was all very cartoony and fit the old visual style. The gore in RDR2 works really well given the very grounded and gritty world that brought in survival aspects and a heavier emphasis on things like hunting but that doesn't automatically mean it'll work great in VI, so I wouldn't be surprised if the gore in VI is turned down from RDR2's level my self.

With how gritty and dirty gta IV was, I could have seen some mild gore in the vein of RDR2. I don’t think it would have clashed with the tone

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8 hours ago, REVENGE777 said:

With how gritty and dirty gta IV was, I could have seen some mild gore in the vein of RDR2. I don’t think it would have clashed with the tone

 

IV was grey and brown but I don't think the tone of the world was as gritty and dirty as something like RDR2. Not saying it couldn't have worked but the reason the gore worked so well in RDR2 haven't been reasons that have existed in any GTA to date IMO, they'd have to find their own direction and tone for it to work in VI and I'm not too sure they'll go down that route for VI's tone and world which is why I'm not so sure VI will have RDR2 levels of gore.

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On 8/5/2022 at 3:42 AM, suicidehummer said:

Why does a joke have to be an arbitrarily and subjectively defined "main focus" to merit criticism? 

Because now I challenge you to interview casuals about the first few things they care about when it comes to GTA V and make a statistics from it. Let me first claim that most of them only care about story mode. Will the number of those who just mostly want to wreck havoc in said world rivals the former? Or will those who care about proper Drag Queens representations, who go out of their way too hard to the point they find one of them and dislike it, turn that statistics into a super balanced three-way one? This is to confirm my suspicion that the people who find it as a problem are just being unnecessarily nitpicky and make it too big of a deal.

Edited by Super Shizuku
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On 8/5/2022 at 3:42 AM, suicidehummer said:

In the midst of a massive political "culture war" that lately centers around the validity of trans people, even a small remark can have a big impact.

But how many casuals that unironically believe that with the game allows player to insult these Drag Queens, that means the game endorses said casuals to do it in real life as well?

Edited by Super Shizuku
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cherrycola
On 8/3/2022 at 7:43 AM, suicidehummer said:

I don't think of peoples' gender identity as inherently political.

Are you kidding me? Even the term "gender identity" is political. It's not science, it's pseudoscience, and the followers are typically very far-left leaning. Also, people are starting to identify as animals now. If Rockstar can't make fun of that, they might as well shut up entirely.

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DexMacLeod
13 hours ago, Super Shizuku said:

Because now I challenge you to interview casuals about the first few things they care about when it comes to GTA V and make a statistics from it. Let me first claim that most of them only care about story mode. Will the number of those who just mostly want to wreck havoc in said world rivals the former? Or will those who care about proper Drag Queens representations, who go out of their way too hard to the point they find one of them and dislike it, turn that statistics into a super balanced three-way one? This is to confirm my suspicion that the people who find it as a problem are just being unnecessarily nitpicky and make it too big of a deal.

 

I don't know. The way I see it, people saw transphobia, voiced their displeasure, and the transphobia was removed in an updated version of the game. That should have been the end of it, no big deal at all. For whatever reason, people who are perfectly fine ignoring transphobia when it exists just can't seem to stop complaining about its absence and turned it into a big deal.

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suicidehummer
15 hours ago, Super Shizuku said:

Because now I challenge you to interview casuals about the first few things they care about when it comes to GTA V and make a statistics from it. Let me first claim that most of them only care about story mode. Will the number of those who just mostly want to wreck havoc in said world rivals the former? Or will those who care about proper Drag Queens representations, who go out of their way too hard to the point they find one of them and dislike it, turn that statistics into a super balanced three-way one? This is to confirm my suspicion that the people who find it as a problem are just being unnecessarily nitpicky and make it too big of a deal.

 

I never said everyone cares about it. What does this have to do with anything I said? You're just adding on yet another arbitrary metric through which you can ignore the problem. Why can't you just say that you don't care? Why do you have to make these tortured excuses?

 

If most players don't care one way or the other and just want to wreak havoc, then what is the problem with removing it? YOU are the one turning it into a big deal. This is the hypocrisy of all these people who never STFU about "cancel culture". They're offended at the fact that other people get offended by things. They complain about other people complaining. If you actually didn't care, you wouldn't have anything to say about the content being removed. You do care, you're just trying to launder your beliefs behind a false mask of not caring. Cosplaying an impartial observer while pushing your beliefs.

 

15 hours ago, Super Shizuku said:

But how many casuals that unironically believe that with the game allows player to insult these Drag Queens, that means the game endorses said casuals to do it in real life as well?

 

The reality is that impressionable young people play these games, despite the ESRB ratings. The reality is that media does influence people's behavior. Street racing increased in popularity after the first Fast and Furious movie came out.

 

3 hours ago, cherrycola said:

Are you kidding me? Even the term "gender identity" is political. It's not science, it's pseudoscience, and the followers are typically very far-left leaning. Also, people are starting to identify as animals now. If Rockstar can't make fun of that, they might as well shut up entirely.

 

Thanks for proving my point. I said that I don't view gender identity as political. People like you have to politicize everything. I could direct you to actual scientists that have repeatedly debunked your political drivel, but you'd rather listen to talking heads like Ben Shapiro tell you what is "pseudoscience" instead of actual professional biologists.

 

I do love how emotional y'all get though. You really should learn to control your emotions better, it's no way to go through life being so easily offended by everything.

Edited by suicidehummer
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Shut up, sit down, relax. 
 

Stop overreacting. We don’t know what none of what Jason said would look like for Rockstar. Wait until the first trailer then you can worry and panic or get hyped up for the game.

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Racecarlock
6 hours ago, suicidehummer said:

 

I never said everyone cares about it. What does this have to do with anything I said? You're just adding on yet another arbitrary metric through which you can ignore the problem. Why can't you just say that you don't care? Why do you have to make these tortured excuses?

 

If most players don't care one way or the other and just want to wreak havoc, then what is the problem with removing it? YOU are the one turning it into a big deal. This is the hypocrisy of all these people who never STFU about "cancel culture". They're offended at the fact that other people get offended by things. They complain about other people complaining. If you actually didn't care, you wouldn't have anything to say about the content being removed. You do care, you're just trying to launder your beliefs behind a false mask of not caring. Cosplaying an impartial observer while pushing your beliefs.

 

 

The reality is that impressionable young people play these games, despite the ESRB ratings. The reality is that media does influence people's behavior. Street racing increased in popularity after the first Fast and Furious movie came out.

 

 

Thanks for proving my point. I said that I don't view gender identity as political. People like you have to politicize everything. I could direct you to actual scientists that have repeatedly debunked your political drivel, but you'd rather listen to talking heads like Ben Shapiro tell you what is "pseudoscience" instead of actual professional biologists.

 

I do love how emotional y'all get though. You really should learn to control your emotions better, it's no way to go through life being so easily offended by everything.

👆What he said

Edited by Racecarlock
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Edward RDRIII
On 8/5/2022 at 7:48 AM, Jason said:

 

IV was grey and brown but I don't think the tone of the world was as gritty and dirty as something like RDR2. Not saying it couldn't have worked but the reason the gore worked so well in RDR2 haven't been reasons that have existed in any GTA to date IMO, they'd have to find their own direction and tone for it to work in VI and I'm not too sure they'll go down that route for VI's tone and world which is why I'm not so sure VI will have RDR2 levels of gore.

Even if we can't blow heads, arms and legs off in GTA 6, Rockstar probably will make punch hits visible and melee weapons and gunshot wounds look more realistic with RDR2's bleedout animations and such, to be honest while I think RDR2 and TLOU2 dismemberment systems are cool, they're kinda exaggerated in my opinion, realistically I don't think a single shotgun buckshot/slug is enough to completely obliterate someone's head clean off his neck, it probably needs two or three shots to achieve this result.

 

Skip to 2:30 and see how Rockstar can improve its gore system for GTA 6 based on what RDR2 has already done:

 

 

Edited by Edward RDRIII
Comment corrected.
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