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Salvatore Leone poisoned and ruined Maria's life


Spartak2811
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Spartak2811

Hey there, dear guys and ladies! It will be too long like a book but I really want to share my detailed opinion for this complicated topic. If you don't mind. And I hope so.

 

We can often see such an opinion, especially from the blind followers of a famous YouTuber, that Maria Latore, the only female deuteragonist and one of the most controversial female characters in series (in my opinion) is almost the incarnation of the devil, the culprit of all evils, all troubles, all problems, all nightmares and all suffering, a money predator and an insidious seductress. That she was born only to cause problems and to annoy. That she is truly a last "villain" and "antagonist" in 3D universe, not Catalina. Especially with regard to Don Salvatore Leone, about whom they say that she put a lot of horns on him, she caused so many problems, that he is such a poor and miserable old man, a lamb who has become a victim of an insidious seductress. And sometimes hatred for her goes so far that even there are people who write comments like: “Maria’s biggest mistake is… being born. If her stupid damn parents used protection they would never gave birth such a “monster” like her and they would made a huge favour to us.” I think they hate not only Maria, but also her parents and even her sister with other family ancestors. 

 

But... no. This is a pathetic hypocrisy to blame only her. What if we look at all this complicated topic impartially and without biases?

 

And if I say that in fact, Salvatore Leone... poisoned and ruined Maria's life, what will you say? 

 
After all, it is obviously that when a 57-year-old Mafia Don, a widower and a lustful womanizer, who has gray hair in his beard (in this case, in his moustache), a demon in his rib, decides to seduce and molest an 18-year-old girl, despite her resistance, contempt and lack of affection for him, and then use her as a trophy wife, as a symbol of status, prestige and for the sake of satisfying his ego, such a relationship will never last long and will never bring happiness. Yes, the players say that Maria got married for money. And they will be right, I don't condone it. But she was not the initiator of this relationship. I didn't see any signs of a gold-digger in SA cause she never asked Salvatore about his wealth. She didn't like him and immediately despised him from the first meeting. Then why did Salvatore decide to marry a girl old enough to be his daughter or granddaughter? Did he really love her? The answer is no. Salvatore never loved Maria to begin with. Everyone loves to pour dirt on Maria, but they don’t make claims to Salvatore, despite it was HIS choice of him being 57 y.o. widower to seduce an 18 y.o. girl, no one forced him to do so, no one threatened him and no one blackmailed him. Did she bewitch him back in Las Venturas? Did she seduce him? Did she fascinate him? Or was he so stupid that he didn’t understand that marrying a girl suited him to his daughter or granddaughter won’t make him happy and she’ll not get her satisfaction? Was he so stupid to not understand that in 95% of cases it would be mésalliance with girl’s materialistic interests to lustful womanizer and lovelace who has gray hair in his beard (in this case, in his moustache), a demon in his rib? No, he wasn’t stupid. He was just a very frivolous, short-sighted and insecure person who did not think through all the consequences in advance. Salvatore just looked at her as a trophy, as a toy, as a thing, as a commodity to begin with. He didn’t see a woman in her. Only trophy or a commodity. He pretended love to her, in reality he used and manipulated her just for his status, prestige and for his ego satisfaction. And he didn't even understand why the "horns" are growing.
 
Maria didn't want a fate of unhappy drug addicted trophy wife back in Las Venturas, who will be used and manipulated as a toy or commodity. I don't know why R* decided to completely rewrite her story (but we'll talk later), but I can say in 1992 she was like a blank list - she was clean, sober, serious and young. But she was very, very naive. Her young and naive heart trusted and was caught to clutches by insidious manipulator, vain narcissist and lustful womanizer who calling himself a man of honour came to Caligula’s Casino to outsmart and manipulate everyone and then betray them to take all place to himself. We need to admit that it was her first romance experience where she underestimated him. But for Salvatore she became a girl for replacement of his fist wife who gave a birth of his son Joey and who died before 1992 (but we'll talk later, too). And while many players call her an insidious seductress, in reality she was a victim of circumstances. Maria had just worked in the wrong time and obviously in the wrong place. Maria didn't come to work as an ordinary waitress, as an invader or an usurper, unlike one hypocritical character. Her place of job, Caligula's Casino, the place for entertainment and fun, has turned into battlefield between three main Liberty City's Mafia Families for the right to control gambling business in Las Venturas. And she became a slave of a powerful and influenced man who calling himself a man of honour arrived to Casino to outsmart and manipulate everyone and then betray them to take all Casino to himself.
 
Who was the initiator of these relationships, Salvatore or Maria? Maria despised him back in LV when he seeing her young and beautiful body asked: “who is this pretty thing?”, showing his narcissism in like “How much I should pay to you to get you all to myself?” She despised him by answering “I don’t do this kinda sh*t, you know” in like “No! I ain’t selling, I’m not a slut! I don’t like you, get off from me.” But Sal wanted her, because she’s a young, cute, gorgeous and naive, he wanted her as a trophy by any means necessary, he was obsessed with, he conquered her, or it’s better to say, he bought her all to himself, he managed to seduce her that she could not resist anymore because he knew that as a Powerful Don he can buy every woman. Women for Sal are just toys which he can use and thrown away like a used condom. But Maria for him was like a suitcase without a handle. It's hard to carry and it's a pity to throw it away. But, whom am I tricking? It was no pity to throw her away. Maria and Sal's relationships and their awful marriage were heavily disapproved by Maria's father and all of these were against his wishes. He even called Sal "a fat slob". Whom was Maria's father remains unknown, but I assure you that he wished her daughter only good. And her daughter's decision disappointed him and he estranged her from him, her mother and her sister. If only Maria listened her father, her life could be better. Maybe she didn’t gain much love from her parents, especially, from her father. It’s not surprised that husbands for trophy wives are called “sugar daddy”. Or she was spoiled even in childhood, who knows. And that's another reference to "The Sopranos" show on Adriana La Cerva from whom Maria was probably portrayed and her toxic relationships with Tony Soprano's capo Christopher Moltisanti despite her mother's heavy disapproval. Christopher was so obsessed with Adriana that he even attacked her mom to propose to her. Just like Maria, Adriana was very naive.
 
Of course, life with such a violent, cynical, heartless, narcissistic tyrant like Don Salvatore Leone was not a "bed of roses". The life of a housewife was not Maria desired and wanted to herself. I'm sure that their marriage began to crack at the seams immediately after returning to Liberty City. As we know, different ages - different interests. Salvatore seeing in her just a trophy wife, lost any interest in her and ignored her preferring Mafia Business and parties with hookers over her. It's not surprise that his neglecting, uncaring attitude to her let to angry quarrels with her, with probably physical scuffles, insults and humiliations from his side to her and frequent cheatings from both side. I was absolutely dissapointed when I saw Maria so ugly and horrible in LCS seeing her first appearance in III as a cute and adorable girl. Fans just see that she doesn’t act like a “perfect victim”, like a “true victim” and pour dirt on Maria saying that she’s worse than Salvatore which isn’t true. Fans see Maria as a troublemaker but in reality she was a victim of domestic abuse and humiliation. You know, I don't condone her actions and behaviour, but... can we blame her in all troubles? I could blame her but I won't do that because of one simple reason.

And the reason is... Salvatore Leone. After all he’s the cruel, cynical and heartless criminal, dangerous paranoid, perfect manipulator, vain narcissist and lustful womanizer, who seduced her just because of her body for his ego, prestige and status, who insults and humiliates her, who treats her like a trash, like a commodity, like a toy, not like a woman, doesn’t pay any attention for her and cheats on her with hookers in JD’s brothel, later Luigi’s Club. While players say Maria was ungrateful and unfaithful to Salvatore, they forget that it was because Salvatore... was ungrateful and unfaithful to her. In LCS where Maria was completely disfigured, messed up and destroyed to my disappointment, R* showed perfect hints that Salvatore is not faithful to Maria. We saw him in brothel twice at least (Don in 60 Seconds and Salvatore Salvation). We know that he's a frequent customer of this brothel where he uses services of prostitutes (later Luigi's Sex Club 7), later in III Luigi, his own pimp who delivers girls to him, also confirmed that his girls miss him. I'm sure he even had a whole harem of many young mistresses with whom he had sex with and presumably gave them expensive gifts such as cars, houses or jewelry. And he calls Maria a slut? He's a hypocrite. We all saw the most hilarious cutscene "Contra-Banned" where Sal argued with Maria. I can say they both "good". He said “I don’t like used goods!” “I was looking for a tramp, I married a slut”. Tramp and slut are identical words, synonyms. Fans laughed from Salvatore's roasts to Maria, but in this case he just showed his true nature. He's a hypocrite hinting her in cheatings while he does the same, and a womanizer. An old lustful womanizer. Women for him are just toys that he can use for his pleasure and throw away like a used condom.
 
Of course, I don't condone Maria's action and behaviour, but deep inside she felt herself unhappy, humiliated and betrayed. She realised that Salvatore just used her as a toy for sex and thrown her away. And because she didn't have a strong character, fortitude and someone who can help her and care about her she became depressed and got addicted to drugs. This unhappy marriage, abusing, humiliating and disgusting attitude of Salvatore made her dumb drug-addicted witch with huge conceit, confident in her exceptional appearance, also cheating on her husband in response to his cheating on her, exploiting her husband for money, shoplifting, betting herself as a price in the street race (could you imagine that?), trying to seduce Toni but cutting all ties with him after realising that he doesn't have any money and even trying to sell Mafia secrets to reporter Ned Burner. She tries to put pressure on him by exposing her status as the wife of the Mafia Don, although in reality she was just a pawn and a puppet of Salvatore. Her one biggest mistake of youth has turned her life into shambles.

In III, 2001, she's in much more best condition, she mellowed, seems she almost got rid from her drug addiction and we didn’t see her overdosed, she bought drugs from Chico only once, but for fun, and then we didn’t see her obsessed with drugs. Maria understood that drugs keeps you down and ruin you and Asuka helped her a lot with that. She's more friendly, nice, kind and down to earth. Yes, she tries to coquettishly dominate Salvatore's subordinates, for example, calling Claude Fido, but seems that she tired from life of trophy wife, she looks scared, she realises that she is just Salvatore's pawn and puppet, whom he skillfully manipulates. She regretted very much that she had married him. She could not leave him earlier not only because she could lose everything but also because one thing leave simple guy in her age and another leave 66 y.o. Don of the most powerful Mafia Family, a narcissistic tyrant and violent man with huge ego who can order to kill her like "Do you want to get everyone? So don't get you to anyone". But it seems that she made all efforts to be better and she turned from ugly, horrible and obnoxious witch to beautiful, friendly and down to earth girl. Despite that this old paranoid, manipulative and narcissistic bastard Sal still abuse and humiliate her, keep using her as a toy, as a trophy, as a commodity, treat her like a trash and prefer her other girls from Luigi’s club. It’s so comfortable to suspect your young trophy wife in cheating while you’re doing the same in Luigi’s club.  But fans don't blame Sal for that because he is the Don, and he allowed to do anything with everything and everyone, even to hook up some young and silly waitress for his own status and prestige, treats her like a trash and prefer her to other women, but there are double standards on the face. But no, "we should not blame him, and we should not criticise him. You don’t understand… it’s different." Or no freedom to the enemies of freedom.

I partially agree with Maria's fault in Salvatore's betrayal of Claude. But only partially. Why? Because Salvatore didn't need Maria in betrayal of Claude. Salvatore had already betrayed Claude, he sold him to Colombians in exchange for truce with them, he didn’t need Maria, he didn’t need a war with the Cartel, he knew that Cartel will smash him through the wall. Salvatore just lied to Claude and he manipulated him to turn the Leone family into the only monopolist in Portland with someone else's hands, and then, when he completed his task and became useless, he would drain him like a used condom. Salvatore manipulated Claude like a small coin to save his old butt on negotiations with the Colombian Cartel. Salvatore knew that the Leone Family might be one of the strongest, but it wasn't the most powerful and influenced in the Liberty City anymore. They cannot defeat the powerful Colombian Cartel, Leone is not having the best of times - a war on 2 fronts: Joey fights against the remnants of Forelli, and Toni with Triads, loss of territories to Diablos and to Triads, throne of Liberty City's Kingpin swayed beneath Salvatore, the Colombian Cartel raised to the top of Liberty City's Criminal Olympus. They've just finished one war and bang... they're in the middle of another, but with much more influenced, powerful and dangerous criminal organisation who has so many resources, so many connections, so much money and so good weapons that Salvatore could even dream about it. And if you can't win, make peace on favorable terms. And he decided: since the Triads were weakened by other hands (Claude’s hands as an outsider hired gun) why not expel the Cartel from Portland, using not his own people, but the same outsider hired gun, and then get into an advantageous position in negotiations with the Cartel and make peace in exchange for the head of the already useless Claude? The whole operation "Bomb da Base" was Salvatore’s cunning and elegant plan: Claude destroys the ship, the Colombians leave Portland, and Leone gives them Claude's head in exchange for peace. Both Salvatore and Catalina had common interests: Sal gets rid of an outsider hired gun because he has outlived his usefulness and no longer needs him, and Catalina gets moral satisfaction from the death of her ex. And this multi-pass would be great if it weren't for Maria. She got mad at Salvatore and lied to him about the affair precisely because she knew that Sal had already sold him to Cartel, she knew that she will be the next in death list after Claude, and that’s the only reason why she said about affair. It finally sparkled Sal’s paranoia: me or him. Betray first before you could be betrayed. But Maria warned Claude and saved him from inevitable death showing that she cared about him. And she has strength and conscience to admit her stupidity and apologized to him although nothing depended on her. The fate favoured Claude that he met Maria.

Players say Maria turns lives of everyone a living hell? It was Salvatore who poisoned and ruined her life. Players say Maria betrayed Salvatore? It was Salvatore who betrayed Maria. He used Maria as a reason to get rid from both of them. I’m sure he ordered to kill not only Claude, but also he ordered to kill Maria as well, and before that he broke off his marriage with her and kicked her out with nothing! With nothing! Salvatore just needed the right time and the right guy to get rid from her. And from him as well. But Maria didn’t care about money anymore (and players call her a gold-digger? Pathetic). She had just exhausted from abusing, disrespectful and humiliating attitude to her and she wanted to start over a new life. She wanted to get rid of the lifestyle of a "sugar baby" and a trophy wife. She wanted to be a woman, not a toy or a puppet in manipulator’s hands. And I don’t blame her for that. Asuka was the only one who cared about Maria, who respected her and who treated her… like a woman. Like a woman, not like a toy or a puppet, like Salvatore and Toni always treated her. This awakened a good trait in her and gave her an opportunity to repent. That helped her to save Claude from inevitable death and apologize to him.
 

And, of course, it's not surprise that she didn't care that her now ex-husband is gonna be killed and she didn't shed a single tear about his death. She never mourned death of a man who poisoned and ruined her life. She didn't care about money. She finally felt herself free. Free from the shackles of Salvatore, free from clutches of the Leone Crime Family and she finally has a chance to start over a new life. She got revenge on him. Got revenge for poisoning and ruining her life. And I give our beloved Maria with our beloved Asuka a credit - they gave us a perfect opportunity to smash the hell out brains of this sneaky, treacherous, manipulative, narcissistic, unstable and pathetic old man all over Liberty City, not only all over his favourite Sex Club 7. I felt relieved and happy when I got rid of this, in my opinion, one of the most overrated and annoying character, who to seemed to be as a Big Boss, a Great Gangster but he's just a laughingstock. An old man with huge ego, senile senility, paranoia, megalomania and endless lust for power. A man with only one rule in his veins "Betray first before you could be betrayed". A man who saw enemies everywhere, even in his family, but never defeated the most important enemy, which was himself. A lustful womanizer for whom women are just toys. He lost his bread (his first wife), he wanted a soft delicious bun by the sixth decade of his life, so he got it. He was annoying with his behavior, bragging, gigantic ego and paranoia. "Look, I'm the Big! Let's see how he can screw with me! Oh, no! He tries to steal my money! He tries to steal my toy Maria! Somebody is out to f**k me! AAAHHH!!!" So annoying. Did you see how he scammed his only true and loyal friend and chain dog Toni Cipriani paying him just a pathetic half million instead of one or even two million despite all his efforts for the Leone Family supremacy and Salvatore's power over all Liberty City? He became Liberty City's Kingpin only with help of Toni, no one made much efforts like Toni, even his own son. And he scammed him by manipulating friendship. His paranoia, vain narcissism, megalomania, endless lust for power and the rule "Betray first before you could be betrayed" drove off his mind. And it's not surprise that the fatal fate had caught him one day. I also give Maria a credit that she helped us to get revenge to Catalina along with Asuka, who's also one of my favourite GTA characters (and also underrated, who deserved much better). And you know, I think Maria truly loved Claude, loved him for who he is, as she doesn't need any money from him or doesn't want to use him, like Catalina always used him.


Let’s not forget that before meeting with Maria Salvatore was married once. And, I think, for quite a long time, considering that his first Signora Leone (so respectfully addressed to a married Italian woman) gave a birth of his good son Joey in 1969, a wonderful car mechanic and, perhaps, the successor to the entire Criminal Empire, so they got married in the mid-60s, maybe in the end of 50-s, they were together for more than 10 or 20 years or their marriage was short-lived. I think there were trust, attention and love between them. His first wife truly loved and appreciated him the most. Just like he loved and appreciated her. But, unfortunately, by 1992 (the events of San Andreas) Sal was already a widower. It is unknown when and why his first wife died: from a fatal illness, an accident, a suicide or she was killed during the Mafia wars. I’m pretty sure that the death of his first wife was a huge strike for him and damaged him good, he became a lustful womanizer and a vain narcissist and started to look for much young girl just for his own status, prestige and power. Maria is an example. I believe that deep down, despite all his cruelty and paranoia, he continued to love his first deceased wife and spoke well of her (a conversation with Joey is an example of this), and Maria was a temporary consolation. A trophy wife, an expensive property and a handy toy, from which sooner or later he can safely get rid of. And it's similar to Michael Corleone's life from Godfather when he was married twice. His first marriage with Apollonia Vitelli was short because she died from car bomb planted to kill Michael, and his second marriage with Kay Adams was absolute disaster. Even after Apollonia's death he continued to love his first deceased wife. Salvatore mentioned his first deceased wife in his conversation with Joey with huge respect saying she would be turning on in her grave if she saw him without wife, which can means that he wished that his son would finally found a really good woman. Most likely, just like Michael Corleone, Salvatore experienced real affection and love for a completely different woman.


By the way, Maria's story was fully rewritten. In original concept of III she was a 25 y.o. student, recently arriving in Liberty City and working as a dancer in Luigi’s Club to earn some money for her studying. She met that lustful womanizer Salvatore in Luigi’s Club. They better let this story in original and didn’t add her in SA and LCS. Underaged people in US are forbidden to work as waiters/waitresses in Casino.  I really doubt how such a young girl could stand with this old paranoid, manipulative, narcissistic, violent, cynical and heartless womanizing scumbag like Salvatore for almost decade…  If you want, check "The Design Behind GTA 3" video by GTASeriesVideos.


As III was published in 2001 and SA in 2004 there are huge differences. In III she was very young, sweet and adorable. In SA… oh, well… she looked much older. LCS… no comments, she was ugly. And they are prequels, not sequels.


That's what I wanted to say, guys and ladies.


I'm really sorry for this very long and detailed explanation, I really am. I also wanted to say that... Yes, Maria has her negative sides, of course. But who doesn't have it? Yes, she's not an angel, but who is the angel? Yes, she's not exactly the saint. Yes, she deserves to be criticised but she also deserves sympathy. Because she seems to be kinda troubled, but in reality she was a victim. She was unlucky to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time and in the wrong hands. Believe me, this topic is much more complicated that it looks at first sight. And, obviously, that Salvatore is not at all a poor and miserable lamb who became a victim of "insidious seductress". He always saw just a commodity, a thing, a toy, a trophy, not a woman in her and used her as a symbol of his own prestige and status without showing care and love, buying her off with money. And thank God, he lost. Maria repaid him with the same coin in every way. How he used her as a toy and puppet that she used him too.


Also I wanted to show you how much Maria is underrated, undeservedly and unfairly hated female character just because of one secondary spin-off game. A girl with fascinating, but tragic story and an unknown fate who may not received her happy ending. She seems as disposable and hated even more than Catalina, but she deserved much better. So young, so sweet, so beautiful and so, so naive and silly. She never thought that working in Mafia Casino maybe will lead her to fatal fate which she didn’t want and didn’t expect. Her heart trusted to lustful womanizer who will poison and ruin her life. So naive girl. If Maria really was guilty, it was that she did not have a strong character and fortitude that warned against her falling. And presumably she had paid a huge price for her biggest mistake of youth. Just in 26 or 27 y.o. She had her whole life ahead but criminal world doesn’t forgive mistakes, stupidity and weakness. You can say: youth is selfish. And that is true. Youth is selfish. But what many people don’t want to say is that old age is much more selfish that youth.


This is a bitter lesson from Houser brothers and Leslie Benzies: find you partner carefully, don’t let anyone to manipulate you, don't find your future partner just for body, money, prestige or status and build your future relationships at trust, attention, care, respect and, mainly, at love.


As a guy, who love GTA franchise for almost 15 years, I want to give some good advices to you. Dear young ladies, if you don't want that your life could be poisoned and ruined stay away from lustful womanizers like Salvatore. And if you saw him and he tries to show interest in you, do yourself a favour: run away and don't look behind. And an advice for everyone: don't get in the wrong sleigh. Appreciate those who sincerely love and cherish you, who were, are and always will be with you in a difficult moment. Salvatore valued himself only and maybe Toni Cipriani too. He didn’t valued his family (not the Crime but usual Family). What he have we don’t keep. When we lost, we cry.


I want to thank Eric a.k.a. Guiness Walker for his format of Grand Theft Auto Biographies. I think I could not find many information without his format.


I assure you if Salvatore’s first wife didn’t die before San Andreas he would have been the happiest man. I assure he loved and appreciated his first wife, she loved and appreciated him. And, of course, if Maria didn’t work in Caligula’s Casino during Leone-Forelli-Sindacco war, she would never met Salvatore and her life could be much better. But, unfortunately, the fate decided otherwise. Or R*.


Weakness hides in hearts of every person. Any young, sweet and beautiful girl could be on Maria’s place and fans would hated her. Or even more. Asuka was the only one who cared about Maria who helped and supported her, without asking for anything in return. Asuka showed nobility and mercy to Maria and I think it saved her from final decadence. And there was much less nobility and mercy in Liberty City.

And not only there.
 
I want to see your opinion, fellow fans. What do you think about it?
 
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Perhaps going outside to touch some grass might help you clear your mind, my brother in Christ. :cringekek:

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nastyyaboi

first of all ain't gonna read all that 

 

sec, see how beautiful this grass is? 

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i think you should touch it 🙂

 

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Jeansowaty

I hate Salvatore lmao

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  • KEKW 2

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shes not gonna f*ck you bro

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All you guys telling him to touch grass are cringe af. This is a forum to discuss all aspects of the game including lore. If you are not going to read it and say some dumb comment about touching grass just stop being a man child wasting your time and click somewhere else that gives you more value for your time

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he ain't gonna f*ck you bro 

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i promise you nobody thinks you're cool like i said if you dont have anything of value to say you have no reason to comment, instead maybe you should touch grass and not mindlessly browse the forums until you collapse 

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y'know what, you're right. Maybe I should devote my time to producing intrinsic theories and reports on the flawed relationship between two virtual characters in a two decade old video game, one of which being a female character who I seemingly have an overwhelming borderline lustful obsession with despite said character being nothing but polygons and bitmaps, as that is truly the better pastime than mindlessly browsing the forums. Naturally in my 16 year tenure as a member of this forum I have not once actually contributed anything of value, and my post history definitely does not contain a good amount of discussion, research and hypothesis on GTA lore, glitches, speedrunning, beta content, modding and anything else that falls under the 3D era spectrum.

 

also my posts got more reacts so clearly i am cool 😈

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Wow thats wild, you joined the forum in 2006 so that means you are a grown ass man acting like a 5 year old on the internet. I truly cant tell whats more sad in this scenario.

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Hoo boy. Okay.

 

Maria is Salvatore's trophy wife. She is using him as much as he is using her. He is okay with this. Of course Salvatore has a trophy wife. He's a mafia don. He isn't going to attract a genuine, affectionate woman who loves him for who he is, is he? He's going to want somebody to mount him like a stolen motorcycle. As much as I celebrate and encourage deep lore, especially from ageing titles, this might be a case of "don't read too much into it". There are other tragic characters that weave tales through poor decisions, lust, envy, greed and pretty much any other deadly sin you can think of. Salvatore has undeniable charm, whether this is from his position in the mob or a cultivated personality through years of social manipulation and a cultivated sphere of influence. Are you as easily repulsed by women in real life who marry men thirty years their senior just so they can look nice and be looked after? It isn't gratifying for either party but there isn't a great deal you can do about it. It's worth pointing out that Maria isn't exactly the pristine angel in any scenario. In III we see her regularly endanger herself and even tells Salvatore that she's romantically involved with Claude, which is of course a lie. If you're going to read between the lines, it's heavily implied Maria cheats on Salvatore and generally makes a big nuisance of herself. The kicker is Salvatore is absolutely A-OK with this. He doesn't care. Their relationship or marriage is not one of a partnership or love. It's all status.

 

Honestly, this whole thing has a weird incel atmosphere. Explaining and exploring the relationship dynamics of two characters is one thing but this is a little heavy. As for this argument that seems to be developing above, pack it in or you'll be sleeping with the fishes, badda-bing-badda-boom, I cooka da pizza.

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16 minutes ago, boomboom5950 said:

Wow thats wild, you joined the forum in 2006 so that means you are a grown ass man acting like a 5 year old on the internet. I truly cant tell whats more sad in this scenario.

 

Well on one hand there's unironically writing an undergraduate level dissertation on the relationship dynamic between two fictional characters in a 21 year old game on a subforum that will often go days without a post, and then there's poking fun at the author of said post. I mean seriously, an undergrad dissertation ranges from 5k-8k words and OP's post comes in at 4919. The average WPM is around 40, meaning OP's post took at least 2 hours of just typing, not factoring in research, corrections, breaks, or the numerous other posts dedicated to Maria. I would argue that having such a hyper fixation on one fictional character, and an obtuse level of disdain for another is objectively more sadder than me not taking a forum seriously after 16 years of membership. It's fun, you should try it.

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Forgot to mention, Maria likely got bent over a barrel by Asuka wearing a strap-on dildo. I don't know if this clouds your analysis but if there's one thing Salvatore presumably doesn't have it's a vagina, so that's one thing he can't offer her.

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16 minutes ago, Rhoda said:

Forgot to mention, Maria likely got bent over a barrel by Asuka wearing a strap-on dildo. I don't know if this clouds your analysis but if there's one thing Salvatore presumably doesn't have it's a vagina, so that's one thing he can't offer her.

 

You're missing the point, he can't offer her anything as Salvatore suffers from erectile dysfunction - his age combined with the stress of being embroiled in disputes with rival gangs have had such an impact on his physical and mental well being that he is unable to maintain arousal, even around his trophy wife Maria. Salvatore simply refuses to acknowledge this hence why he has no regard for Maria's actions, and she willingly uses his money to fund his lifestyle as if word got around that Salvatore has erectile dysfunction his status as an alpha male would be diminished. Whilst the game doesn't specify what drugs she buys during Chaperone, the description of them is "party treats" so it's a safe assumption it's ecstasy, aka the love drug and the party is merely a front for an ecstasy fuelled orgy. It's well known that Catalina was into BDSM, and after spending 9 years with her it's a safe bet Claude would be involved too hence why Maria gravitates towards him as Claude can provide her pleasure beyond her wildest dreams, unlike Salvatore.

 

Maria, no doubt full of drugs and multiple partners semen later confesses to Salvatore that her and Claude are together, as payback for the years of Salvatore not treating her right. This enrages Sal as he now has to confront his demons instead of blocking them out, causing Claude, Maria and a newly introduced Asuka to set sail for Staunton. However, this is when Maria's true promiscuity comes into play. Claude is rapidly moving up the criminal ladder instead of moving her internal organs, so what does Maria do when a strong male lead doesn't give her the attention she desires? She moves on, expanding her horizons and experimenting with Asuka and her sex toys.

 

In short, Maria is a narcissistic nymphomaniac who disregards anyone and everyone's feelings and emotions in order to satisfy herself.

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On 7/31/2022 at 4:13 AM, Spartak2811 said:

As a guy, who love GTA franchise for almost 15 years, I want to give some good advices to you. Dear young ladies, if you don't want that your life could be poisoned and ruined stay away from lustful womanizers like Salvatore. And if you saw him and he tries to show interest in you, do yourself a favour: run away and don't look behind. And an advice for everyone: don't get in the wrong sleigh. Appreciate those who sincerely love and cherish you, who were, are and always will be with you in a difficult moment. Salvatore valued himself only and maybe Toni Cipriani too. He didn’t valued his family (not the Crime but usual Family). What he have we don’t keep. When we lost, we cry.

I'm using this paragraph as my new tinder opening

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You're looking too much into it, and that's coming from someone who likes overanalyzing GTA. I guess the things you said aren't exactly untrue, but they're also a little melodramatic. There's no deep sob story to these characters. This is GTA III with its simple (borderline nonexistent) story and sticker on a wall characters. Salvatore is an aging mob boss, of course he's going to be an untrusting webweaver who frequently cuts off his own connections. That's all part of the job. He knows it, his subordinates know it, Claude knows it. They all willingly got into it knowing what it is. And same applies to Maria. She married Sal for his money, makes that clear many times in LCS. She also isn't as repulsive of Salvatore as you say. In their first encounter, her complaints were about being made to bring a sandwich to him sitting on his ass, not being hit on. In the very next mission, she changes her mind and approaches her quite willingly. Salvatore is a mob boss and she's a partying, drug abusing gold digger. These are no secret. I don't know why you want to victimize her like she was a saint before, working at Caligula's with that costume on. Salvatore doesn't have any agenda to ruin individuals like an evil mastermind. He does things like that where it's profitable, not for the hell of it. They weren't exactly a match made in heaven. The game implies that Maria throws these tantrums every once in a while and that they've both grown accustomed to it. Salvatore should've never remarried after losing his Marisa.

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Alright. Sounds like I should join the discussion as well :D Just for the record, sorry for not answering everything, but I've decided to only reply to things I couldn't agree with it or feel it's unclear or simply to add something from myself. And I decided to go for a more "calm" approach. To make things straight, I am not poking fun at you ;)

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We can often see such an opinion, especially from the blind followers of a famous YouTuber

Wondering who that unlucky YouTuber must be 😄

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 that Maria Latore, the only female deuteragonist and one of the most controversial female characters in series (in my opinion) is almost the incarnation of the devil, the culprit of all evils, all troubles, all problems, all nightmares and all suffering, a money predator and an insidious seductress. That she was born only to cause problems and to annoy. That she is truly a last "villain" and "antagonist" in 3D universe, not Catalina. Especially with regard to Don Salvatore Leone, about whom they say that she put a lot of horns on him, she caused so many problems, that he is such a poor and miserable old man, a lamb who has become a victim of an insidious seductress. And sometimes hatred for her goes so far that even there are people who write comments like: “Maria’s biggest mistake is… being born. If her stupid damn parents used protection they would never gave birth such a “monster” like her and they would made a huge favour to us.” I think they hate not only Maria, but also her parents and even her sister with other family ancestors. 

 

But... no. This is a pathetic hypocrisy to blame only her. What if we look at all this complicated topic impartially and without biases?

Damn, that would be quite shocking for me knowing that some people believe Maria Latore is a villain to anyone really. I mean, certainly, she is a gold-digger. But I didn't know that someone could perceive her as that serious threat. Well, she was one of the factors in terms of Salvatore's betrayal of Claude, but other than that? I don't see more dangers here.

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And if I say that in fact, Salvatore Leone... poisoned and ruined Maria's life, what will you say? 

I would probably say it depends. On one hand, she has become Don's wife, having access to all luxury and such. On the other hand, she has become a drug addict.

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After all, it is obviously that when a 57-year-old Mafia Don, a widower and a lustful womanizer, who has gray hair in his beard (in this case, in his moustache), a demon in his rib, decides to seduce and molest an 18-year-old girl, despite her resistance, contempt and lack of affection for him, and then use her as a trophy wife, as a symbol of status, prestige and for the sake of satisfying his ego, such a relationship will never last long and will never bring happiness. Yes, the players say that Maria got married for money. And they will be right, I don't condone it. But she was not the initiator of this relationship. I didn't see any signs of a gold-digger in SA cause she never asked Salvatore about his wealth. She didn't like him and immediately despised him from the first meeting. Then why did Salvatore decide to marry a girl old enough to be his daughter or granddaughter? Did he really love her? The answer is no. Salvatore never loved Maria to begin with. Everyone loves to pour dirt on Maria, but they don’t make claims to Salvatore, despite it was HIS choice of him being 57 y.o. widower to seduce an 18 y.o. girl, no one forced him to do so, no one threatened him and no one blackmailed him. Did she bewitch him back in Las Venturas? Did she seduce him? Did she fascinate him? Or was he so stupid that he didn’t understand that marrying a girl suited him to his daughter or granddaughter won’t make him happy and she’ll not get her satisfaction? Was he so stupid to not understand that in 95% of cases it would be mésalliance with girl’s materialistic interests to lustful womanizer and lovelace who has gray hair in his beard (in this case, in his moustache), a demon in his rib? No, he wasn’t stupid. He was just a very frivolous, short-sighted and insecure person who did not think through all the consequences in advance. Salvatore just looked at her as a trophy, as a toy, as a thing, as a commodity to begin with. He didn’t see a woman in her. Only trophy or a commodity. He pretended love to her, in reality he used and manipulated her just for his status, prestige and for his ego satisfaction. And he didn't even understand why the "horns" are growing.

Just a small correction, Salvatore Leone is 56 years old during GTA 3 according to the so-called Holy Grail of GTA 3 (GTA 3 Design Doc), not 57. ;) Also, 18-year-old girl? Where did you find that Maria Latore was 18 years old when she started dating Sal? All I know is that she was supposed to be 25 years old during GTA 3 according to the Holy Grail again, but this time it's hard to acknowledge this age as canon unless you're not counting that she was seeing Salvatore in 1992. That's why at least I don't accept her age from Holy Grail because it collides with GTA San Andreas events. Personally, I think that Salvatore wasn't always like this in his nature.. I believe he changed after his first wife died, that is Joey's mother although it's just an assumption. And yeah, you are right that Salvatore was the one that made the first step. And yes again, it's not like Salvatore loved Maria, he loved her appearance, her young attractive body. Not gonna lie when you repeated this line "gray hair in beard", I chuckled a bit 😅
 

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Maria didn't want a fate of unhappy drug addicted trophy wife back in Las Venturas, who will be used and manipulated as a toy or commodity. I don't know why R* decided to completely rewrite her story (but we'll talk later), but I can say in 1992 she was like a blank list - she was clean, sober, serious and young. But she was very, very naive. Her young and naive heart trusted and was caught to clutches by insidious manipulator, vain narcissist and lustful womanizer who calling himself a man of honour came to Caligula’s Casino to outsmart and manipulate everyone and then betray them to take all place to himself. We need to admit that it was her first romance experience where she underestimated him. But for Salvatore she became a girl for replacement of his fist wife who gave a birth of his son Joey and who died before 1992 (but we'll talk later, too). And while many players call her an insidious seductress, in reality she was a victim of circumstances. Maria had just worked in the wrong time and obviously in the wrong place. Maria didn't come to work as an ordinary waitress, as an invader or an usurper, unlike one hypocritical character. Her place of job, Caligula's Casino, the place for entertainment and fun, has turned into battlefield between three main Liberty City's Mafia Families for the right to control gambling business in Las Venturas. And she became a slave of a powerful and influenced man who calling himself a man of honour arrived to Casino to outsmart and manipulate everyone and then betray them to take all Casino to himself.

I don't know why either, a sudden change of plans could be the answer :/ It's kinda surprising for me that you think young Maria was thinking of Salvatore as her "true love". Like Salvatore is old even in 1992, not physically attractive at all (well, there are people that are attracted to elderly guys, but I doubt she was one of that kind), so I guess money is the only factor left that could make her decide to go with Sal.

 

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 He even called Sal "a fat slob". Whom was Maria's father remains unknown, but I assure you that he wished her daughter only good. And her daughter's decision disappointed him and he estranged her from him, her mother and her sister. If only Maria listened her father, her life could be better. Maybe she didn’t gain much love from her parents, especially, from her father. It’s not surprised that husbands for trophy wives are called “sugar daddy”. Or she was spoiled even in childhood, who knows. And that's another reference to "The Sopranos" show on Adriana La Cerva from whom Maria was probably portrayed and her toxic relationships with Tony Soprano's capo Christopher Moltisanti despite her mother's heavy disapproval. Christopher was so obsessed with Adriana that he even attacked her mom to propose to her. Just like Maria, Adriana was very naive.

Well, I wouldn't be so sure that Maria's life could be better, life takes different turns, my man ;) Cool reference to the Sopranos btw!

 

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Fans see Maria as a troublemaker but in reality she was a victim of domestic abuse and humiliation. You know, I don't condone her actions and behaviour, but... can we blame her in all troubles? I could blame her but I won't do that because of one simple reason.

Well, she did tell Salvatore about her alleged relationship with Claude, didn't she? ;) It's pure luck she didn't do the same in the case of Toni Cipriani in GTA LCS.

 

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You know, I don't condone her actions and behaviour, but... can we blame her in all troubles?

Of course not :D

 

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I partially agree with Maria's fault in Salvatore's betrayal of Claude. But only partially. Why? Because Salvatore didn't need Maria in betrayal of Claude. Salvatore had already betrayed Claude, he sold him to Colombians in exchange for truce with them, he didn’t need Maria, he didn’t need a war with the Cartel, he knew that Cartel will smash him through the wall. Salvatore just lied to Claude and he manipulated him to turn the Leone family into the only monopolist in Portland with someone else's hands, and then, when he completed his task and became useless, he would drain him like a used condom. Salvatore manipulated Claude like a small coin to save his old butt on negotiations with the Colombian Cartel. Salvatore knew that the Leone Family might be one of the strongest, but it wasn't the most powerful and influenced in the Liberty City anymore. They cannot defeat the powerful Colombian Cartel, Leone is not having the best of times - a war on 2 fronts: Joey fights against the remnants of Forelli, and Toni with Triads, loss of territories to Diablos and to Triads, throne of Liberty City's Kingpin swayed beneath Salvatore, the Colombian Cartel raised to the top of Liberty City's Criminal Olympus. They've just finished one war and bang... they're in the middle of another, but with much more influenced, powerful and dangerous criminal organisation who has so many resources, so many connections, so much money and so good weapons that Salvatore could even dream about it. And if you can't win, make peace on favorable terms. And he decided: since the Triads were weakened by other hands (Claude’s hands as an outsider hired gun) why not expel the Cartel from Portland, using not his own people, but the same outsider hired gun, and then get into an advantageous position in negotiations with the Cartel and make peace in exchange for the head of the already useless Claude? The whole operation "Bomb da Base" was Salvatore’s cunning and elegant plan: Claude destroys the ship, the Colombians leave Portland, and Leone gives them Claude's head in exchange for peace. Both Salvatore and Catalina had common interests: Sal gets rid of an outsider hired gun because he has outlived his usefulness and no longer needs him, and Catalina gets moral satisfaction from the death of her ex. And this multi-pass would be great if it weren't for Maria. She got mad at Salvatore and lied to him about the affair precisely because she knew that Sal had already sold him to Cartel, she knew that she will be the next in death list after Claude, and that’s the only reason why she said about affair. It finally sparkled Sal’s paranoia: me or him. Betray first before you could be betrayed. But Maria warned Claude and saved him from inevitable death showing that she cared about him. And she has strength and conscience to admit her stupidity and apologized to him although nothing depended on her. The fate favoured Claude that he met Maria.

This whole paragraph is the essence of the fact that sadly Maria's mistake was one of the reasons Salvatore's betrayal happened in the first place. Of course, there were several "better" reasons which were mentioned here as well if I remember correctly, but Maria contributed to this as well.

 

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Let’s not forget that before meeting with Maria Salvatore was married once. And, I think, for quite a long time, considering that his first Signora Leone (so respectfully addressed to a married Italian woman) gave a birth of his good son Joey in 1969, a wonderful car mechanic and, perhaps, the successor to the entire Criminal Empire, so they got married in the mid-60s, maybe in the end of 50-s, they were together for more than 10 or 20 years or their marriage was short-lived. I think there were trust, attention and love between them. His first wife truly loved and appreciated him the most. Just like he loved and appreciated her. But, unfortunately, by 1992 (the events of San Andreas) Sal was already a widower. It is unknown when and why his first wife died: from a fatal illness, an accident, a suicide or she was killed during the Mafia wars. I’m pretty sure that the death of his first wife was a huge strike for him and damaged him good,

That's pretty much my point in terms of theorizing that the death of Salvatore's first wife was the turning point when he stopped being like Vito Corleone and became pretty much evil version of him.

 

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 Salvatore mentioned his first deceased wife in his conversation with Joey with huge respect saying she would be turning on in her grave if she saw him without wife, which can means that he wished that his son would finally found a really good woman.

Exactly.

 

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I'm really sorry for this very long and detailed explanation, I really am.

It's okay ;) It was a real pleasure reading all this although you seem to kinda repeat yourself a couple of times, it's alright.

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As a guy, who love GTA franchise for almost 15 years, I want to give some good advices to you.

That's a good one 😁

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Dear young ladies, if you don't want that your life could be poisoned and ruined stay away from lustful womanizers like Salvatore. And if you saw him and he tries to show interest in you, do yourself a favour: run away and don't look behind. And an advice for everyone: don't get in the wrong sleigh. Appreciate those who sincerely love and cherish you, who were, are and always will be with you in a difficult moment. Salvatore valued himself only and maybe Toni Cipriani too. He didn’t valued his family (not the Crime but usual Family). What he have we don’t keep. When we lost, we cry.

That sounds like a cool PSA! :D

 

Overall, it is a great piece of writing. Again, there were few times when you were repeating yourself, but all in all, it was cool to read. Perhaps one day there will be an episode devoted to this topic ;) Cheers!

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On 8/3/2022 at 12:12 PM, Sombra said:

y'know what, you're right. Maybe I should devote my time to producing intrinsic theories and reports on the flawed relationship between two virtual characters in a two decade old video game, one of which being a female character who I seemingly have an overwhelming borderline lustful obsession with despite said character being nothing but polygons and bitmaps, as that is truly the better pastime than mindlessly browsing the forums. Naturally in my 16 year tenure as a member of this forum I have not once actually contributed anything of value, and my post history definitely does not contain a good amount of discussion, research and hypothesis on GTA lore, glitches, speedrunning, beta content, modding and anything else that falls under the 3D era spectrum.

 

also my posts got more reacts so clearly i am cool 😈

Please do the board needs more life anyways as for the topic both Salvatore and Maria are flawed there are no saints in the 3d universe. 

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