Potential Rebalancing Discussion Thread

[HopalongCasidy]

Take blips off map unless friends, ceo/vip/mc, or ppl going psycho.

 

Add Rdr defensive mode.

 

I should not be able to scale a skyscraper with no effort and shoot you through a building.

 

Also, I feel like people forget there was a time where there was no auto-lock on players on the ground.  

[Nutduster]

23 minutes ago, ACR said:

Boo hoo just go solo public, you just wanna nerf it because you don't like it and don't give a f*ck about downside for other portion of players and you mentioning how easy it is for grinders, so what you just want it to become even more frustrating to grind? So you can moan about it, boo hoo go passive or invite only.

 

You can type "boo hoo" all you want but you're not actually countering my points.

 

I don't like the thing because it's been way more bad for gameplay than good. Simple as that. I actually own two of them and use them all the time. Of course I do, they make the game super easy! I use them to fight players when the occasion calls for it and I use them to grind. They're great tools because they are TOO effective. I don't go passive or use solo public sessions because I don't need to. But I am here to defend the right of less experienced, less stuff-having, more passive players than me to not have a sh*tty game experience. They deserve better, and if I & you have to suffer to give it to them, so be it.

 

Anyway, it's barely suffering. You can absolutely do MOST activities with a Sparrow or Buzzard equally as fast as the Mk II. The only problem is--and the reason people prefer the Mk II so much--helicopters demand more of you. You can't just dart around like a gnat, ram into stuff without dying or even falling off, land on a speck of nothing the size of a quarter, etc. You have to think and plan. But they are just about as efficient of grinding tools IF you use them properly. What they lack in landing and maneuverability, they make up in airspeed and infinite missiles. There is nothing wrong with them, except that a lot of people are used to the game demanding so very little of them, and refuse to go back.

Edited July 2 by Nutduster

[El Cavilldo]

A simple solution would be just make all business and preps to be compatible to Invite-Only lobbies, or make sale vehicles un-lockable by missiles. Cayo Perico is not a 'balanced' heist, it's just that it can be made solo on invite.

And about vehicles their approach it's not to take away things but to add more things to the game, both to attack someone and to defend yourself. The Toreador is their ultimate attempt to balance PvP between vehicles, and ImaniTech it's the ultimate defensive counter measure.

 

I don't think a single ride will be nerfed but since there's too many vehicles with offensive features, we'll just get an ImaniTech-bike, an ImaniTech-helicopter and an ImaniTech-boat.

Edited July 2 by El Cavilldo

[Arrows to Athens]

They should give the Mk2 stealth mode similar to the Akula. Also, they should give it imani tech so it can prevent lock-on. It's in great need of one. 

Edited July 2 by Arrows to Athens

[Man With No Name]

They are not going to remove the MK2 or it's missiles for that matter. It should never have been added to the game in the first place, but it well has, so the only solution I can see them going with is decrease the lock-on effectiveness, slow down the missiles themselves, and/or add a new limit of them you can use max.

[Black-Dragon96]

4 hours ago, ACR said:

Can you land anywhere with buzzard and how much time you need for that?

As a matter of fact, pretty much yes. I can land everywhere I need to be and do so rather fast.

 

5 hours ago, ACR said:

Nerfing mk2 is against mine interest as a grinder unless they seriously do the same to PVE enemy npcs, if they rebalance that aspect of shooting system then i would change my opinion.

Well for me its exactly the opposite, it IS in my interest as a grinder that the mk2 gets its missiles taken off.

There are plenty of non frustrating ways to deal with the terminator AI that do not involve a flying bike with heatseaking missiles. Yeah they may take a little more time than 0.0005 seconds to whipe out an enemy base of 25 NPCs, but even as a grinder a few seconds dont really matter.

 

Lets play a game:

You give me an example of terminator npcs you NEED a fully armed mk2 for and I give you an example on how to do it without.

[Super Grunt 281]

Corner shooting might be your answer, or blindfire, or staying away, etc...

 

Or your can get closer with a Savage and annihilate them if they haven't been aggro'd, it's a good helicopter to take advantage of that.

 

If it's outside in the open, you might be able to use a sniper weapon from a building or a helicopter.

[motomami]

1 hour ago, El Cavilldo said:

A simple solution would be just make all business and preps to be compatible to Invite-Only lobbies, or make sale vehicles un-lockable by missiles.

Not really. Most of the time that I get attacked by MKIIs is during Business Battles and stuff that requires multiple players in a lobby. The problem is not having to engage in PVP, the problem is that there is no weapon or vehicle in the game that can counter a MKII. It's absolutely ridiculous to essentially be defenceless against 1 vehicle in the game. The Toreador and Imani Tech vehicles both have their weaknesses because they are land vehicles. The MKII has no weaknesses, that's the issue.

[Xiled]

5 hours ago, Nutduster said:

Nerf it unto death.

 

They won't, of course. It makes them too much money. But it's too easy a tool to use for both griefers AND grinders. Nerf it without mercy, give refunds to anyone who complains.

Still waiting for my $1.5 million from my rhino that was nerfed 8 years ago... 

[SqualidCoyote]

I loved my Buzzard when I first bought it. It required skill to fly and could be taken down players on the ground with RPGs and by other planes and helicopters unless you knew what you were doing. At least with all the missiles before the Oppressor you could actually dodge the things and stand a chance against another player. A Buzzard took skill to master, the Oppressor takes no skill and has missiles that never miss. For a real helicopter fan it ruined everything. It's a sci-fi gimmick in a game that used to be set in reality, an insane absurdity in a world so brilliantly developed and realized. And yet now I use it more than my all of my helicopters and cars because they just cannot compete. Sad really.

[gamerMK2]

Perfect fix to opmk2: reduce missiles AOE, so it's less deadly against people on foot. Same for hydra cannon. Also reducing opmk2 rate of fire to what buzzard has would be nice.

[HamwithCheese]

Highly doubt they're gonna do anything radical this time around. It's more likely they'll tine down missile accuracy and slow the thing down. The better question is what else they'll nerf? Will they buff anything? 

 

Tbh I never pvp so it's whatever, I just hope they make all cars a little bit faster, or at least remove a lot of handling flags 

[Nutduster]

1 hour ago, motomami said:

Not really. Most of the time that I get attacked by MKIIs is during Business Battles and stuff that requires multiple players in a lobby. The problem is not having to engage in PVP, the problem is that there is no weapon or vehicle in the game that can counter a MKII. It's absolutely ridiculous to essentially be defenceless against 1 vehicle in the game. The Toreador and Imani Tech vehicles both have their weaknesses because they are land vehicles. The MKII has no weaknesses, that's the issue.

 

That's not totally accurate. Toreador owns a Mk II in many situations, especially when they don't know you're in a Toreador--which they often don't because it has no unique map icon. It's my go-to anti-Mk II vehicle for that reason. A few Imani Tech vehicles including the Buffalo are excellent counters as well, since they're armored and can't be locked onto. And the good ol' Nightshark is still an excellent defensive option--the Mk II runs out of missiles before it blows you up.

 

But yes, all these have weaknesses that the Mk II doesn't. They are good counters to it, but it is still the best all-around vehicle. And yes, it could stand a serious nerf.

Edited July 3 by Nutduster

[Arrows to Athens]

55 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

That's not totally accurate. Toreador owns a Mk II in many situations, especially when they don't know you're in a Toreador--which they often don't because it has no unique map icon. It's my go-to anti-Mk II vehicle for that reason. A few Imani Tech vehicles including the Buffalo are excellent counters as well, since they're armored and can't be locked onto. And the good ol' Nightshark is still an excellent defensive option--the Mk II runs out of missiles before it blows you up.

 

But yes, all these have weaknesses that the Mk II doesn't. They are good counters to it, but it is still the best all-around vehicle. And yes, it could stand a serious nerf.

Every now and then, you'll encounter that one Mk2 scrub that knows how and when to use countermeasures, particularly chaff. If they activate chaff right before they approach you, chances are, they're going to win the battle unless you get lucky. They should have never given this thing countermeasures, especially when it's classed as a motorcycle. 

Edited July 3 by Arrows to Athens

[motomami]

50 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

That's not totally accurate. Toreador owns a Mk II in many situations, especially when they don't know you're in a Toreador--which they often don't because it has no unique map icon. It's my go-to anti-Mk II vehicle for that reason. A few Imani Tech vehicles including the Buffalo are excellent counters as well, since they're armored and can't be locked onto. And the good ol' Nightshark is still an excellent defensive option--the Mk II runs out of missiles before it blows you up.

 

But yes, all these have weaknesses that the Mk II doesn't. They are good counters to it, but it is still the best all-around vehicle. And yes, it could stand a serious nerf.

I'm not talking strictly purely PVP, i'm more so talking just in general. Like for example if i'm trying to do a business battle that's all the way at the top of the map i'm not going to use a land vehicle cause they're too slow. But then if I use any aircraft a MKII can just swoop in at the last second after i've done all the work blow me up and steal all the crates. And I have no way to defend myself. By the time I call up a Toreador or Imani Tech vehicle they'll already be gone. They could easily just hop off of it for a second too and shoot my out of it cause the bullet resistance is sh*t.

 

Also Toreador is only good if they don't know you're coming. If they know you're coming there's not much you can go because MKII is too agile. Meanwhile the Toreador boost will have you crashing everywhere if you're in the crowded city area. I've also had situations where the MKII would just hover above me so that I couldn't aim at it.

[Nutduster]

2 minutes ago, Arrows to Athens said:

Every now and then, you'll encounter that one Mk2 scrub that knows how and when to use countermeasures, particularly chaff. If they activate chaff right before they approach you, chances are, they're going to win the battle unless you get lucky. They should have never given this thing countermeasures, especially when it's classed as a motorcycle. 

 

Yes. They're less than 5% of Mk II abusers, by my count, but the really nasty ones lean on chaff and also can free aim missiles well. I learned both techniques from being harassed by griefers, so if someone really annoys me now, that's what they get. And honestly, I feel guilty doing it, because it is incredibly hard to counter. Against that stuff, the Toreador has a really hard time, but the Buffalo STX with Imani-disabled lock-on is still beastly; just gotta learn to aim sticky bombs at altitude.

 

I will try to avoid turning this into a "How to fight the Oppressor" clinic, but years of free roam warfare have taught me a lot of techniques. They're all situational, though. There is no single cure-all for the buzzing menace. The closest is probably the Fully Loaded Ruiner, which is STILL situational, but basically laughs at Oppressors before it chews them up and spits them out.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

Literally one single change would make the Mk II actually bearable to fight against: Just reduce the tracking on its missiles to Buzzard/Hydra/Lazer levels.

 

That's literally it.

 

Let's face it, grinders don't need hyper accurate missiles that almost never miss to grind and if they do, well, that sounds like skill issue.

 

Also, slightly unrelated, but I hope they finally give explosives in this game some actual splash damage fall off, explosives in this game either don't touch you at all or kill you instantly even if you're pretty far away from a blast, which makes them OP.

[Xiled]

18 minutes ago, Yellow Dog with Cone said:

Literally one single change would make the Mk II actually bearable to fight against: Just reduce the tracking on its missiles to Buzzard/Hydra/Lazer levels.

 

That's literally it.

 

Let's face it, grinders don't need hyper accurate missiles that almost never miss to grind and if they do, well, that sounds like skill issue.

 

Also, slightly unrelated, but I hope they finally give explosives in this game some actual splash damage fall off, explosives in this game either don't touch you at all or kill you instantly even if you're pretty far away from a blast, which makes them OP.

The splash damage working as it hitting you directly is why the jet cannons are so ridiculous. Best part about gta iv rocket launcher deathmatches was being launched into the air and surviving with low health instead of just insta dying the boring way in gtao. 

[Shadowfennekin]

6 hours ago, Arrows to Athens said:

They should give the Mk2 stealth mode similar to the Akula. Also, they should give it imani tech so it can prevent lock-on. It's in great need of one. 

They should give cars that stealth feature. Just 'pop' and done!

Not just the remote stuff that Imani tech does

2 hours ago, Yellow Dog with Cone said:

Literally one single change would make the Mk II actually bearable to fight against: Just reduce the tracking on its missiles to Buzzard/Hydra/Lazer levels.

 

That's literally it.

 

Let's face it, grinders don't need hyper accurate missiles that almost never miss to grind and if they do, well, that sounds like skill issue.

 

Also, slightly unrelated, but I hope they finally give explosives in this game some actual splash damage fall off, explosives in this game either don't touch you at all or kill you instantly even if you're pretty far away from a blast, which makes them OP.

Well I rely on my Toreador's super enhanced missiles when helping people out with Heists(Clear an area out fast and don't need to worry about deaths) but the MK II doesn't need them.

[Hazzardtohimself]

My expectations for rebalancing and/or fixing PvP is somewhat moot* as it's not an activity I've partaken in frequently - however my realistic** hopes include the following: 

 

1) Removal of countermeasures from Oppressor Mk2. 
2) Removal of uber-missiles (from all vehicles) and replacing with standard tracking missiles. 
3) Adding unused Toreador map icon from existing files to vehicle. 

4) Adding a cumulative cooldown to remote controlled vehicles (Bandito, I&P Tank, Drone etc.) to avoid spamming. 

5) Patching known PvP glitches, including god-mode (on-foot & vehicles), semi/permanent off-radar, thermal-sniping through buildings and before players have respawned, orbital cannon spamming etc. 

6) Reducing splash-damage from explosive cannons/rounds. 

7) Increased fees for buying ammunition from the Interaction Menu. 

 

* They're also moot as I'm personally not reinstalling GTAO until robust anti-cheat measures are implemented and actively maintained... which probably means that I'll never be able to play again... 

** Or as realistic as expecting anything from Rockstar at this point of the game's existence to have any semblance to actually providing something that players want. 

[Jenkiiii]

I totally agree that the problem with the OPII is its missiles. Make them standard buzzard missiles and it will breathe life back into helicopters and more realistic gameplay. Skilled helicopter pilots FLY AT normal missiles and break their lock on.

 

What Rockstar seem to be doing is ramping up countermeasures like anti-lock on and Out of Sight, not nerfing, so expect more of these, and remember they have NEVER nerfed jet explosive cannons either, so I am afraid OPII supremacy is here to stay.

 

Griefing is a mindset and if someone is determined to do it they will be a plague for the remainder of the session, especially if you're trying to do missions. But switching lobbies and experimenting with aim preferences helps a lot and I find that 80% of people are just going about their business anyway.

 

[Tez2]

One problem I have with the OP vehicles is the Lock-On range.

 

 

The Stromberg and Toreador have a Lock-On range of 150 meters. But the Deluxo and Oppressor Mk2 have the same range as all helicopters and planes.

 

It's like Rockstar has a basic criteria. If it can fly, 300 as range. If it can't, 150.

[Nutduster]

43 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

One problem I have with the OP vehicles is the Lock-On range.

 

 

The Stromberg and Toreador have a Lock-On range of 150 meters. But the Deluxo and Oppressor Mk2 have the same range as all helicopters and planes.

 

It's like Rockstar has a basic criteria. If it can fly, 300 as range. If it can't, 150.

 

I never knew that, though it explains a lot. The Oppressor would probably be less annoying if the lock range matched the Toreador. The homing ability should also be toned down--I'd favor reducing it to helicopter missile levels, but any reduction would be a good thing, IMO. It seems like they work so well in order to counter jets, but as decent pilots quickly figured out how to evade them anyway, the real effect was just to make the Oppressor a godlike weapon that almost never misses anything EXCEPT jets. Dumb.

[SM Grunge]

2 hours ago, Tez2 said:

One problem I have with the OP vehicles is the Lock-On range.

 

 

The Stromberg and Toreador have a Lock-On range of 150 meters. But the Deluxo and Oppressor Mk2 have the same range as all helicopters and planes.

 

It's like Rockstar has a basic criteria. If it can fly, 300 as range. If it can't, 150.

If the value is set to 0, then the lock-on is disabled?

Is there any variable to target NPCs but not players?

[Tez2]

26 minutes ago, SM Grunge said:

If the value is set to 0, then the lock-on is disabled?

Is there any variable to target NPCs but not players?

Lock-On is a weapon flag. Rockstar could remove the Homing flag and it wouldn't be able to lock-on.

[CaliMeatWagon]

2 hours ago, Nutduster said:

 

I never knew that, though it explains a lot. The Oppressor would probably be less annoying if the lock range matched the Toreador. The homing ability should also be toned down--I'd favor reducing it to helicopter missile levels, but any reduction would be a good thing, IMO. It seems like they work so well in order to counter jets, but as decent pilots quickly figured out how to evade them anyway, the real effect was just to make the Oppressor a godlike weapon that almost never misses anything EXCEPT jets. Dumb.

Just like the homing launcher. Almost completely useless against jets. 

[SM Grunge]

1 hour ago, Tez2 said:

Lock-On is a weapon flag. Rockstar could remove the Homing flag and it wouldn't be able to lock-on.

I appreciate the response dude

[GhillieMaster]

3 changes would drastically improve this game going forward:

1. Nerfing the Mk 2 so that it doesn't just put air combat into a stalemate, its near impossible to take out with anything that isn't a Lazer or something with explosive cannons, which are also OP. Helicopters are completely useless if a Mk 2 is in the air, even with countermeasures.

2. Once the Mk 2 is nerfed properly, then you can nerf explosive cannons. Give the Lazer and Hydra regular machine guns with good damage so they can still shred aircraft if you hit your shots appropriately, but the whole 'spray gigantic blast radius cannons at people on foot' meta would be gone completely. Bombs from aircraft should be given buffs and become the main source of attacking targets on foot with aircraft. And possibly even the B11 if they wanted to give that a proper cannon, still not as good as the Lazer cannons are now tho, those are way too strong. But somewhere in between the Explosive MG it has now and the Lazer cannons would suffice.

3. Orbital Cannon needs major reworks if they don't want to remove it entirely. Perhaps applying the same logic as the mugger to where if you just got blasted with it, then no one else can target you for 48 minutes lets just say, to prevent multiple people from spamming you back to back. Remove the annoying mechanic where it spawns you at the hospital after getting hit by it, as this just makes an annoying weapon even more annoying, spawning you far away from whatever you were doing. Stealth aircraft should block the lock on of the cannon when used, and you shouldn't be able to target people in sell missions either. That still leaves the problem of the free aim cannon though. So it wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would be better than what we have now.

 

These changes alone would make the game much more enjoyable and healthier when it comes to the freemode environment and PVP. And its what im hoping they are targeting with the supposed 'PVP Rebalance.'

[Chorizombie]

MC sell missions needs its product icon alert gone, if not at least on "secret" selling" such as trashmaster, postop vans and low flying planes. MC are supposed to move product under the radar, why would the whole session know when you are moving somethng on your bike, at least pay a fee or something to reveal products, thats where security upgrade comes in.

 

Ammo bought from inventory menu should be at least 2.5x expensive. Makes merryweather ammo drop and ceo ability useless, not even mentioning a stop by ammunation.

 

If you own a clubhouse and an office, you are a Syndicate and can manage all business without having to change back and forth, you also get charged for all active bussines.

 

 

Edited July 3 by Chorizombie

[CaliMeatWagon]

1 hour ago, GhillieMaster said:

3 changes would drastically improve this game going forward:

I got one change for you. Remove ALL explosive weapons...  

Boom! PvP is now mostly fixed.