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Forza Motorsport (2023)


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Darth_Cruiser
On 10/7/2023 at 4:44 AM, ddarko12 said:

Yeah that looks pretty bad. FH5 was visually stunning so it didn't seem far fetched what they showed in 2022 for this new game. To see these downgrades is kind of like wtf. And I wasn't even hyped, I've not been hyped for this game at all and probably won't buy it til a year or two out, and this still looks bad to me.

 

And FH5 even runs better on PC while being better looking. Strange port all around

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Moonshine Wagon Fan

I will be playing this at 12.01am tomorrow morning.

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I'll wait for this to be patched before I play it. 

 

Part of me is disappointed it's not smashing it out the gate. However, as it is supposed to be built from the ground up, I'm kind of forgiving. But they did have a long time to develop this. Nearly 6 years. I haven't played it so, I can't really judge too much. 

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2 hours ago, Mister Pink said:

However, as it is supposed to be built from the ground up, I'm kind of forgiving.

Judging from everything I have seen, it's not. That was marketing bullsh*t. I had some optimism but... no, it most certainly is not built from the ground up. I will say though, the last Forza titles have had awful buggy launches, so it shouldn't be a surprise this is no different (although it shouldn't be expected).

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Yea the whole "ground up" thing is a weird thing to say because anyone who follows Forza Motorsport/Horizon (or Gran Turismo too) knows that the only reason both franchises are able to hit 500+ cars at launch is because they reuse old models. They may have rebuilt the engine, may have rebuilt the physics, but when you flat out say the game has been remade from the ground up despite the fact your community knows you're going to be reusing models. That isn't even a bad thing, but it you're willing to sorta lie about it being remade from the "ground up" cause of model reuse then it does make people think what else about that claim is not true?

 

The most alarming thing with this game for me is is the worst thing to be concerned about, design decisions. Technical and visual issues are much more simple to fix with patches than design decisions.

 

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I would add too, it's expected to use models as far back as FM5 because there was a certain point where Forza car models became pretty consistent and exceptional (apart from a few bad eggs). But they are still using many cars from the 360 days, some of which can be linked back to the original Xbox days. The 2008 DBS? Should've been remodeled. That car is so out of proportion, been out of proportion. They had the DB9-based Virage in Forza Motorsport 4 and Forza Horizon 1 for example, and despite the fact that the cars should have identical proportions and bodies, the Virage was way more accurate. Which car got cut though? Virage. The old DBS is still being reused. But this is just an obscure example that is true for dozens of cars in this "built from the ground up" game. Reusing well-modeled cars dating back to, sh*t, even FM4, is perfectly fine. Continuing to reuse cars that don't even look right, on top of cars that got screwed up via porting years ago is not. The transition between FH1 and FM5 cocked up a lot of models. I'm talking parts that shouldn't be paintable being paintable (so many cars have this problem). Alcantara textures turning into leather textures on stripped out cars. Wonky interior colors that don't even make sense like the Murcielago SV's grey interior. Taillights that look way darker than they should be. The list goes on. The transition between FH3 and FM7 and FH4 cocked up even more. And almost none of it has been fixed.

 

All I can say is, I'm very glad people have been candid with their reviews on YT this time. Everyone was praising FH5 when it launched in 2021 and it took a while for real criticism to form. I'm glad people are not biting their tongue this time around.

Edited by ddarko12
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I absolutely despise racing games and their pretentious slow starts. Slow, unskippable cutscenes, dogsh*t intro races, etc, just let me click career mode and start doing what I want to do. I'm also trying to get my settings right and every time I finish a benchmark it's like "welp guess you're done, moving you on now". No, game, I'm still wanting to use the benchmark tool.

 

Also the PC settings are some of the most confusing I've seen. It all defaults to this weird new auto system - which never works in any PC game - and it makes it hella f*cking confusing to know what's on and what's not.

 

Basically, as a PC player, a really, really poor first half an hour lol.

 

edit: Jesus f*ck the game doesn't stop. Turn 10, please let me skip all this voice over stuff, I've played five million racing games before, stop treating me like I've literally never picked up a controller before and let me skip.

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Is it building shaders or something? my frames are all over the place at times.

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I have no idea what it's doing lol. In my first bit of gameplay and benchmarks I hit 80+ fps but now I'm in the mid 40's, no RT on w/ DLSS balanced. No idea if the game just runs this bad bad or if I have some setting on that is crippling performance.

 

It's bizarre, honestly and it's not made any easier by the games weird PC settings.

 

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Yeah, I've restarted the game, and it seems to be fine now. But, yeah, those auto-graphic options ain't it lmao.

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Restart didn't fix it for me, I still can't get anywhere near the 80fps I got initially. If I can't get a locked 60fps all on high w/ DLSS balanced without RT then the games optimsation is absolutely f*cking horrendous, but I'm leaning towards something else causing the issue... for now.

 

Tried a benchmark w/ DLSS off and w/ DLSS balanced on and it barely made a difference. Now I'm just confused even more lmao.

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I guess it's the game: 🤷‍♂️

 

Yeah, DLSS balanced or perf made zero difference in my frames, either. My fps keeps going to sh*t every time I start another race as well. Just going to put it down for the night, to be honest lol.

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Yep, doesn't make sense lol. I can't get it back up to the 80+ I had at the very start, I'm jumping between 35-50 in the benchmark and no fiddling with DLSS, render scale, dynamic stuff (whatever that stuff is) fixes it.

 

The settings don't help either, the dynamic render resolution doesn't explain what it's doing, the render scale seems to turn DLSS off when I mess with it so I also have no idea what that is doing. When you mix in performance this is a really, really poor PC port. The 21:9 support is also pretty bad, those menus are just lazy.

 

Also NGL the games SSR reflections on the road are really bad too, in the chase cam you can see them disappear to the back left and right of the car, it's not even close the screen edge.

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Oh, and the best laugh is that in the options I've now been replaced with FSR and no DLSS in sight, the f*ck...

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Feel like I'm dogging this game lmfao. But I will never understand how they cannot get DCT shifts right. Do you guys hear how slow those F8 shifts sound? Almost sounds like an automated manual from the early 00's. If I can use a manual transmission mod for a game like f*cking GTA 5 and tweak some numbers in a handling meta to simulate DCT shifts, they should be able to in a dedicated racer. It's crazy, honestly mind-boggling, how they just cannot wrap their heads around how to simulate proper shifts. I'm not even mad about the sounds, they're pretty okay. But seriously. And then the flame spitting. Oh my god. I feel like flame spitting should be reserved for custom exhausts and super cars and rally cars only. Not every car should spit flames. Most pre-10's shouldn't even do more than rumble when lifting off the throttle. I miss the sound of a pure exhaust without artificial backfire. Every car does it, doesn't matter how old or stock.

Edited by ddarko12
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Harwood Butch3r
5 hours ago, Jason said:

I absolutely despise racing games and their pretentious slow starts. Slow, unskippable cutscenes, dogsh*t intro races, etc, just let me click career mode and start doing what I want to do.


I agree with this.

 

It’s good for newish players, but for those of us who are season veterans and have been playing the games for many years it’s frustrating.
 

Wish it would recognise that we’ve played previous games through profiles/achievement tracking and give us the option to skip the intro stuff. We know what we’re doing. We don’t need our hands being held.

 

It’s like getting your PHD, but then being put through kindergarten again.

Edited by Harwood Butch3r
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This game certainly needs a lot of work right now between the graphical bugs, replays not working, random crashing, and so on.. it has not been the greatest launch at all. However, I am so excited for the future of this game. The multiplayer mode is really gonna be something special, it's been phenomenal so far. I've seen nothing but clean and competitive racing, and the newer penalty system is doing its job well. There have been a handful of races so far where it has come down to inches. The driving physics are the best they've ever been in the series as well as the new fuel and tire mechanics. My only gripe with gameplay so far is the car leveling system, I strongly believe it should be a manufacturer based system and not per car. Perhaps this will be adjusted in the near future. I'm sure a lot of the other issues that we are facing will be ironed out soon enough.

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Harwood Butch3r

The game’s only crashed once for me.

 

However I did experience that bug that soft locks the game after applying upgrades directly after a race leaving it in a constant loading loop where you have to exit and start it back up.

 

Also had a couple of instances of completing races in the cups only for them to be wiped and having to do them again. From what I’ve seen online it can be so bad it can actually corrupt your save file and because the game’s saved in a cloud server if it gets corrupted then I suppose you’re royally screwed until they come up with a fix.

 

Maybe I was just incredibly lucky because that never happened to me, but still. To be fair GT7 had a lot of similar issues around its release too so it’s not as if Forza is alone.

 

 

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All of the performance issues I was getting last night, i.e., frame drops when starting a new race, going in and out of the pitstop seem to be fixed, capped at 60fps now with DLSS balanced all RT on high, the game still looks like sh*te though, with how god-awful its DLSS implementation is.

 

Now it's the question of whether I should apply the UW fix (while it's still not exactly ideal) and risk it. It should be right if I don't do any online. Might need to add ReShade as well to sort out the washed-out look.

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Yea, nada for me. Changing visual settings, DLSS settings changes very little.

 

I've heard the games mutlithreading is awful and that fits with what i'm seeing, changing graphic settings and seeing little to no change, low CPU usage in task manager. I can only presume I am massively CPU bottlenecked on my 5800x because of the poor multithreading.

 

No idea how I got 80fps in my first benchmark, perhaps I'm misremembering at this point. Might've been 80 in the first gameplay bit and what I'm getting now in the more stressful benchmark, idk. But this performance is poo poo.

 

Worse still is, like Starfield, the games visuals fail to justify it. Forza Horizon 5 not only looks noticeably better in both raw fidelity and environmental detail but it also runs much better.

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Single Player has been meh, and like you guys have mentioned the startup cutscene/races stuff was really annoying :D

 

So I jumped right into multiplayer after I did the first builder's cup thingy, and it has been pretty damn good so far! They've adopted Gran Turismo's driver rating systems (sort of) so each driver has a Safety rating and a Skill rating, which is then I presume averaged across your entire party (if you have one) for use in matchmaking:

 

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Apparently the Skill Rating is just a measure of how consistently you can do laps/race, there is no actual Ranking (caps out at 5000), so dont worry 😛 Should mean that all the players who troll or cant be arsed to learn to drive will get pushed into their own lobbies with each other.

 

Its "hidden" for some reason, you have to open your Party/Friends tab from the multiplayer menu or w/e to see it. But it does seem to work 🙏 have had mostly clean lobbies, and thanks to qualifying I could stay clear of most incidents mid-pack anyway. Already scored my first win and two podiums.

 

Multiplayer: in order to start racing, they force players to do 3 races in an "introductory" series before you can hop into "proper" races (in faster cars ofc), same car and tune for all. I want to say that this will hopefully get them familiarized with how the lobbies work (practice -> qualifying -> race), how to choose tyres/fuel etc., but it doesnt actually say anything about it lol     I guess all of the tutorials are locked away in the Career mode?

 

Speaking of which, Fuel/Tyre Wear: incredibly basic system, you just pick a set and the amount of fuel to use for the different sessions and that's it. Wish it was implemented like GT where you can choose how much fuel the car can use mid-race, etc. Right now there is no real strategizing involved in racing, apart from maybe weather changes forcing a pit stop?

 

 

One complaint about Multiplayer in its current form: there are no persistent open hoppers/lobbies for each car class. If I want to drive my A class car I have to hope that an A-class lobby is part of the day's/week's rotation of events :/ GT7 has Sport mode for ranked play and normal multiplayer lobbies for this reason, but Forza doesnt sadly.

 

And ofc, that damn upgrading system they've implemented... :rampage:

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So I'm doing more messing around. Saw a benchmark from a guy with a 5600x/3070/16gb of RAM who, w/ maxed out RT got a 76 FPS average in the benchmark at 16:9 1440p. 

 

At 1440p UW I copied his exact settings, with a 5800X/3070/32GB and got like 30 odd average. Without RT I hit 77fps average in the benchmark. Ultrawide is slightly more demanding, but not 50% more demanding.

 

This honestly makes no f*cking sense to me lol.

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I dunno either. If I tamper with any of my current settings, I know it'll go to sh*t and I'll be stuck with FSR again. So imma leave it be.

 

Edit: New Nvidia driver out though, might help. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by lndex
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I wanna say it gave me a boost but it could just be from restarting the game. I think the game has a memory leak, possibly one related to the benchmark tool too. Seen a few people talk about really low FPS which was fixed with a game restart but my issue is I can't seem to get anywhere near the performance other people are getting w/ similar specs even with fresh boot in the benchmark. Maybe the benchmark tool is just f*cked, idk.

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Harwood Butch3r

Thought I’d share my thoughts thoughts on the things I really like about the game since I don’t feel I’ve done that much, but here they are.

 

-I love the dynamic track rubber. At first I thought this was a gimmick, but it’s the real deal. You probably won’t notice unless you do a really long race.

 

At the start of the race the car slides all over the place, but as more rubber goes down the grippier the surface gets to the point you can almost drive like you’re on rails. This is really cool with the non-race cars as you can feel the difference quite substantially.

 

-Even though it’s a small thing I like that they finally added a pit stop animation. Even if it’s a little janky it’s still better than watching a bunch of numbers like in past Forza games.

 

-All the little details. I’ve noticed that dirt accumulates on windscreens. I’m actually in the process of tuning the 1988 Holden VL and it has a clock in the dashboard which is synched precisely to the in game race start time and will accurately follow the time depends how long the race lasts.

 

I find this stuff really cool because I used to have one of those cars in real life. Well not that model specifically, but a variant so it’s something I can relate to and  appreciate all the little details.

Edited by Harwood Butch3r
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After reading quite a bit of negativity I went in with low expectations. But, I have to say I enjoyed it. My first impressions.

 

Bad stuff: 

  • The tutorials, and unskippable parts.
  • Graphics: I don't think this game is particularly pushing boundaries with graphics. They're nice and all but not "wow" nice. Although it does have its moments. 

 

Good stuff:

  • I know...Graphics can be nice in the right light, so when they're good, they're great. 
  • New tracks. I love the Japanese one. 
  • Being able to choose how much fuel you put in your tank. This is new, right? I don't remember it. 
  • UI is great. It's always been quite good. Easy to navigate etc. 
  • Menu music. I really like the menu music and reminds me a lot of Forza 4. 
  • Multiplayer is good - really enjoy the practices and players have so far been playing clean

I've only done two online races but I'm proud to have come 3rd in my second race on the Japanese track with the gifted Honda. I play Expert with all assists off, including ABS. It pays very well to do so. I also play manual with the clutch! It makes it a real challenge but it becomes second nature after a while. However, it requires 100% of my concentration. I could not sit with a friend and talk while racing with a manual with a clutch. It would just be insane.  I'm convinced that driving and concentrating on gear changes, lines, and speed are really good brain exercises! 

 

If anyone on here wants to add me, even not to play online but to have more familiar Drivitars or whatever they have this time, they can 

 

l Mister Pink l 

 

One question. When you see friend's best lap times are they real lap times or are they generated by some AI to challenge you at your level? I kind of confuses me. Also, I notice when I'm done practicing and I'm scrolling through the drivers on the right and looking at lap times, often my laptime isn't showing. Not sure why. 

 

 

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Harwood Butch3r
18 hours ago, Mister Pink said:

New tracks. I love the Japanese one.

 


Even though the track list is a bit sparse atm, especially the lack of street circuits which is really odd for a Forza game the new tracks that have been added are all cool so it’s a decent compromise at least for now.

 

Hakone is the one you’re talking about and it’s my favourite new addition too..🙂

 

At night it’s spectacular with the lighting from the grandstands. Kind of reminds me of the Abu Dhabi circuit in F1.

Edited by Harwood Butch3r
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Going by the benchmark tool, this game for me, for some reason, is using more VRAM than I have which might explain some/all of the issues. My benchmarks are hella weird too, my "GPU" frames are 80+ but my "GPU render" frames are 30+.

 

I have copied exact settings from people with identical or worse specs who have achieved muc hhigher frame rates than me at those specs at 1440p 16:9, to the point I also wonder if 21:9 is causing issues in the game.

 

I can get it to playable frame rates if I turn off RT altogether but the fact that I'm getting like half the performance I should be getting just doesn't sit right with me at all tbh. Something is just very wrong with this game and my PC for some reason.

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It seems like it's all good for me now. I'm able to change settings and such without it going haywire on my frames. I applied a UW fix too. Not really ideal, as the HUD elements are pretty much centre screen still.

 

Benchmark:

 

forza-gaming-desktop-x64-release-final-2

 

 

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With FH5 doing such a good job at fixing sounds... what exactly happened here? lol. I remember when some dude used to get upset whenever I linked this guy's videos too. Forza fans be crazy.

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