GTA V "E&E" PC Version Discussion

[boomboom5950]

10 hours ago, RyuNova said:

While I sympathise with PC users the vast majority of the E&E version is only bringing the console versions up to par with what PC has had for years, the HSW is made to take advantage of the console's new SSD's as standard which a lot of PC players don't have and, without getting your back up, how would it be fair if PC gets it for free while console players paid for it and let's be honest, how many PC players would pay for it?

Well the E&E version isnt really just a 60fps patch for consoles, as much as thats how we think of it as, word is there was alot of improvements done "under the hood" and could be a great idea to release on PC for better performance, also with the addition of ray tracing and other graphical improvements like TAA it might be something PC players would be interested in, at least making it look slightly more modern. Also the HSW speed isnt really a problem, even on a slow HDD streaming issues wont really be present at these high speeds and if they do, chances are the same problems would have occured before. Also about the cost, you can make an arguement that its justified for rockstar to charge for old-next gen versions (even though it may be a weak arguement) but charging for it on PC would not make any sense at all and it would make rockstar look really bad, since its the exact same game on the exact same platform with the exact same specs, it wouldnt make sense. Plus separating the online on PC would be a nightmare for rockstar and its players. Its normal for pc players to avoid paying for things that console players do and the pc community would be really upset if they had to pay for e&e

[Spider-Vice]

Moving this reply to something in the DLC topic here...

 

31 minutes ago, VitoCorleone1992 said:

Specially us, PC players i may say. We didn't have even the E&E yet.

I'm getting slightly worried about this due to some technical changes found in the PS5 files that were dumped a while back*, I really hope we get the full package with the new renderer (aka ray tracing, DX12 etc.) and not a half-baked version with the HSW content etc. whilst keeping the old rendering, physics (high frame rate speed fixes) and so on code.

 

Spoiler

*There are important changes to the model and texture file formats due to the renderer changing to the one used in RDR2 (the old grcore used since 2006 in all RAGE games has been replaced with its successor, SGA, which is more advanced).

If there is no backwards compatibility with the older formats, this would mean PC gets a full 100 GB patch, as the old game files would have to be updated as well.

Problem is - there is no evidence this is happening on SteamDB where we can see which depots are changed with each new qalive/qabeta build, only the DLC depots are changing as if a regular ol' update is coming. It's possible we'd get all the Gen9 content but still on the Gen8/PC code, which would make us miss out on some of the extra fixes and fanciness added to "E&E", even if we got the content.

Development-wise this kind of sounds like a nightmare because art would have to be exported and processed in both formats at once even after they dropped the old Gen 8 code (aka PS4 and Xbox One), which the PC is currently based on.

 

We'll see what (if anything) this week brings, or if it's just coming later down the line for Winter or something. PC development is harder than consoles' due to all the different configurations and behaviours that need to be accounted for, and if they weren't developing some of those new changes for PC at the same time as consoles, then we might have to wait longer. I assume this one update is still coming to PS4 and Xbox One, so they could be waiting until support is dropped for those to move PC over fully to the new code...

[VitoCorleone1992]

13 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

Moving this reply to something in the DLC topic here...

 

I'm getting slightly worried about this due to some technical changes found in the PS5 files that were dumped a while back*, I really hope we get the full package with the new renderer (aka ray tracing, DX12 etc.) and not a half-baked version with the HSW content etc. whilst keeping the old rendering, physics (high frame rate speed fixes) and so on code.

 

  Hide contents

*There are important changes to the model and texture file formats due to the renderer changing to the one used in RDR2 (the old grcore used since 2006 in all RAGE games has been replaced with its successor, SGA, which is more advanced).

If there is no backwards compatibility with the older formats, this would mean PC gets a full 100 GB patch, as the old game files would have to be updated as well.

Problem is - there is no evidence this is happening on SteamDB where we can see which depots are changed with each new qalive/qabeta build, only the DLC depots are changing as if a regular ol' update is coming. It's possible we'd get all the Gen9 content but still on the Gen8/PC code, which would make us miss out on some of the extra fixes and fanciness added to "E&E", even if we got the content.

Development-wise this kind of sounds like a nightmare because art would have to be exported and processed in both formats at once even after they dropped the old Gen 8 code (aka PS4 and Xbox One), which the PC is currently based on.

 

We'll see what (if anything) this week brings, or if it's just coming later down the line for Winter or something. PC development is harder than consoles' due to all the different configurations and behaviours that need to be accounted for, and if they weren't developing some of those new changes for PC at the same time as consoles, then we might have to wait longer. I assume this one update is still coming to PS4 and Xbox One, so they could be waiting until support is dropped for those to move PC over fully to the new code...

 

OMG! Lmao! Ok so let me see if i understood, sorry, i'm very noob at this.

 

1) You're saying that there's a chance that we have to make room for 100 gb to the game being updated to PC?

 

2) What kind exactly of stuff, in theory, can not come, graphical things or gameplay content?

 

3) So, there's also a chance that we can get the E&E and basically the new updates since HSW and IAA Contact Missions only in Winter? (Damn...idk here...looks like too much of content at once... HSW + Summer DLC + Winter DLC).

[MaddenedGhost]

I assume the specs required for running GTAV on PC will change if it got the E&E treatment.

[Spider-Vice]

Right, let's go point by point.  

 

1. Potentially (attention, not necessarily, I am speculating), if it comes to PC in full with all the internal changes done on PS5 and Xbox Series.

2. To use your words, "graphical things". The graphical things caused some changes in all of the game files such as textures, and that could require a big download. There is no evidence that R* are changing the old files to change to these new formats on SteamDB for example. But again, this is just speculation, and there is a chance that this new graphics code supports the old file formats and everything would be ok.

3. No, no, we'd get the IAA Contact missions now as normal, but there's a chance there could be no "E&E" content until winter. We will have to wait for any potential news this weekend.

 

It's all speculation based on things I've read in modding circles and from my own understanding, don't take it too seriously - but it is something to consider.

 

2 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

I assume the specs required for running GTAV on PC will change if it got the E&E treatment.

Most likely, but honestly the current minimum spec already can't do as well as it did in 2015, so it's kind of needing a review anyway - new or old code. They've changed the size requirements but not the rest, that minimum spec machine does not run GTAO now as well as it did in 2015 I'd bet  

[VitoCorleone1992]

1 hour ago, Spider-Vice said:

Right, let's go point by point.  

 

1. Potentially (attention, not necessarily, I am speculating), if it comes to PC in full with all the internal changes done on PS5 and Xbox Series.

2. To use your words, "graphical things". The graphical things caused some changes in all of the game files such as textures, and that could require a big download. There is no evidence that R* are changing the old files to change to these new formats on SteamDB for example. But again, this is just speculation, and there is a chance that this new graphics code supports the old file formats and everything would be ok.

3. No, no, we'd get the IAA Contact missions now as normal, but there's a chance there could be no "E&E" content until winter. We will have to wait for any potential news this weekend.

 

It's all speculation based on things I've read in modding circles and from my own understanding, don't take it too seriously - but it is something to consider.

 

Most likely, but honestly the current minimum spec already can't do as well as it did in 2015, so it's kind of needing a review anyway - new or old code. They've changed the size requirements but not the rest, that minimum spec machine does not run GTAO now as well as it did in 2015 I'd bet  

I can see the bug feast it can result in whatever file changes they have to make on PC. From usual bugs, to login errors, to missing content and game shutdowns.

[Spider-Vice]

That wouldn't really be an issue, other games have done it before, it's just that it would likely take re-downloading the entire game. Again, it's all speculation and they could have other ways of doing it.

[needforsuv]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:37 PM, Spider-Vice said:

Unless the PC version is going to be backwards compatible with older texture and model formats...

maybe they wont drop RT and new backend on pc yet?

but throw everything else?

Or perhaps the pc version just uses the existing formats

 

 

  

10 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

and there is a chance that this new graphics code supports the old file formats and everything would be ok

I mean, even if it didn't... how hard would it be to update it to handle the old formats

its not like the ps5 and xb versions use the exact same formats...

 

 

 

On 7/10/2022 at 7:24 PM, RyuNova said:

the HSW is made to take advantage of the console's new SSD

Yeah no.

Nothing is faster than we can already get.

Fine on a HDD-ish (provided you've got free ram and nothing else is using the drive/s)

 

 

  

10 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

as well as it did in 2015

yeah... but part of the E+E enhancements still unbonk the mess right?

I think it goes for all hardware regardless of spec. That 2015 GTAV ran better than it does now.

Edited July 11 by needforsuv

[Spider-Vice]

Let's not bring an user's uninformed opinion all the way to the typical "PC master race" and "fanboy" arguments here, it WILL go wrong like every other PC topic in this forum as far back as GTA IV.

 

Cleaned up a few posts as that is not something worth arguing, and it's not the angle this argument should be taking, as dumb as the other user's post may be/you think it may be.

 

55 minutes ago, needforsuv said:

Yeah no.

Yeah yes. RAGE's streaming code is great but if I move my GTA V to my Western Digital Black HDD which can do ~150 MB/s and is a 7200 RPM drive I do notice a difference and occasional stuttering even on the current build, I mean at high vehicle speeds. It's not a huge upgrade, no, because GTA V wasn't built from the ground up to stream from SSD's, but there is a benefit.

[videotech_]

I wonder if Xbox Series X|S versions are running on DX12 since the Xbox OS is pretty much based on a customised version of Windows 10? I wish we’d be able to dump the Xbox files as well, but it’s not possible.   

[Spider-Vice]

I would assume so, yeah, but don't quote me on that. Regardless the PS5 dump already reveals that the new version is using SGA so it for sure would support at least DX12.

[needforsuv]

1 hour ago, Spider-Vice said:

Western Digital Black HDD which can do

actually it's more like 200ish for me.

But point is, its nowhere near as bad as it ever was on ps4 even on my laptop drive.

I will bet you if you took the hard drive from a ps4 and stuck it in ANY pc, it'll still do better than a ps4 in terms of actually loading the map

Edited July 11 by needforsuv

[Spider-Vice]

8 minutes ago, needforsuv said:

actually it's more like 200ish for me.

Sequential reads, sure. Streaming in a game is not sequential, and on a HDD this gets worse if it's fragmented. Remember, it's mechanical, there's an enormous amount of latency to get the needle to hit the right spot vs. a completely electronic SSD.

 

8 minutes ago, needforsuv said:

I will bet you if you took the hard drive from a ps4 and stuck it in ANY pc, it'll still do better than a ps4 in terms of actually loading the map

But it will still be limited by its speed. I'm not sure what you're smoking but there is no world where a 5400 RPM HDD is no different than an SSD even with an older game like GTA V. I spawn in the Diamond Casino & Resort Penthouse in GTA Online, and this takes a good few seconds to load on my HDD, but it's instantaneous almost on my NVMe drive (and even my boot SATA SSD).

 

This is a completely pointless argument I'm not continuing lol.

[needforsuv]

25 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

no world where a 5400 RPM HDD is no different than an SSD

never said they were the same

All I'm saying is that those map disappearing glitches on PS4 from going too fast don't/wouldn't really happen on PC even with the same drive from the ps4 (reformatted)

sure, it won't be as smooth as an ssd, but it probably won't be as bad as the ps4 and xb1 were

which is to say, HSW (on PC) for the most part with a HDD will probably end up being a much more pleasant experience than even sitting still in gta online (or driving at normal speeds) on the base ps4 now

 

170mph is only 25% faster than 136mph (150/120 if you want a lower bar)

so say 50% faster storage perhaps on systems that don't struggle with streaming (ps4 = fail there). I see no need to set an ssd as minimum or perhaps even recommended

Edited July 11 by needforsuv

[ambi3nt]

1 hour ago, needforsuv said:

never said they were the same

All I'm saying is that those map disappearing glitches on PS4 from going too fast don't/wouldn't really happen on PC even with the same drive from the ps4 (reformatted)

sure, it won't be as smooth as an ssd, but it probably won't be as bad as the ps4 and xb1 were

which is to say, HSW (on PC) for the most part with a HDD will probably end up being a much more pleasant experience than even sitting still in gta online (or driving at normal speeds) on the base ps4 now

 

170mph is only 25% faster than 136mph (150/120 if you want a lower bar)

so say 50% faster storage perhaps on systems that don't struggle with streaming (ps4 = fail there). I see no need to set an ssd as minimum or perhaps even recommended

Yep there also bunch of jets/helicopters that go faster than HSW vehicles, for a while tuner cars were faster, in various stunt races you go faster. And there are 0 problems for the most people. And if someone has them it's not the fault of a drive, but mainly RAM.

[VitoCorleone1992]

13 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

That wouldn't really be an issue, other games have done it before, it's just that it would likely take re-downloading the entire game. Again, it's all speculation and they could have other ways of doing it.

This is my SDD where i have GTA:

 

 

You once said (i think it was you and was a while ago, and probably in the DLC speculation thread, i think it was you) that re-dowload the game would probably need the space of around 100 gb, which is more or less the disk space that GTA takes currently. So i still have to get rid of 11 gb's, if so. But can't they just replace the old files with the new ones? Why they need more extra 100gb? My bad if i just didn't got exactly what you meant if this is not the case.
 

1 hour ago, Spider-Vice said:

Sequential reads, sure. Streaming in a game is not sequential, and on a HDD this gets worse if it's fragmented. Remember, it's mechanical, there's an enormous amount of latency to get the needle to hit the right spot vs. a completely electronic SSD.

Lmao...this reminds me an occasion where i had my laptop and i was so pissed because a certain thing that i kicked the desk with the knee and i broke the needle of the HDD.

Edited July 11 by VitoCorleone1992

[fryday]

40 minutes ago, ambi3nt said:

Yep there also bunch of jets/helicopters that go faster than HSW vehicles, for a while tuner cars were faster, in various stunt races you go faster. And there are 0 problems for the most people. And if someone has them it's not the fault of a drive, but mainly RAM.

 

my fastest max speed was on PS4 downhill about 415 kmh on a stunt track, with 5x slipstream multiplier.

it was the tron bike and it was pure luck to have 5 people in front of you, everyone in its own slipstream, so I was ridiclous fast, but legit

Edited July 11 by fryday
.

[WanteD1]

Nice marketing and communication C*!

Still waiting for this on PC

https://twitter.com/tezfunz2/status/1521854927554985984

[gamerMK2]

What is reflection occlusion?

[Mexicola9302]

On 7/11/2022 at 6:41 PM, VitoCorleone1992 said:

This is my SDD where i have GTA:

 

 

You once said (i think it was you and was a while ago, and probably in the DLC speculation thread, i think it was you) that re-dowload the game would probably need the space of around 100 gb, which is more or less the disk space that GTA takes currently. So i still have to get rid of 11 gb's, if so. But can't they just replace the old files with the new ones? Why they need more extra 100gb? My bad if i just didn't got exactly what you meant if this is not the case.
 

Lmao...this reminds me an occasion where i had my laptop and i was so pissed because a certain thing that i kicked the desk with the knee and i broke the needle of the HDD.

You should just wait for the actual update, then you can decide how to install it. You could just uninstall your GTA V game, and install the new version. If it's really the case that almost every file gets replaced. I mean with 184 GB free space it should work then. For me the game currently is 105 GB large (360 files, 87 folders). I currently got 149 GB free space on the drive it is installed (Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 1TB NVMe M.2), im glad this won't be a problem for me. Except maybe the game needs 210 GB to be updated for some weird reason, then i just move it to another drive update it there, and move it back.

 

I hardly believe ppl with HDD's will have streaming issues in the game, after the update. Sure the loadscreens will suck, but it will still be playable like it usually was. It's not like these HSW vehicles are any faster what we already had on PC in the past.

 

Remember the "Annis RE-7B" with speed glitch? That was insanely fast, i don't think ppl had streaming issues using it, even with a HDD.

 

Spoiler

The RE-7B appeared to have been released with a bug that causes the carbon fiber spoiler to compress the suspension to such a degree that it increases the car's speed far beyond that of any other. The only land vehicle able to beat an RE-7B thus equipped in a drag race is the Hakuchou, and it is capable of doing so only while performing a wheelie. As a result, the RE-7B was peerless in the Super category (and any other).

This was patched in 1.36, so the spoiler cannot compress the car's suspension more than it should.

 

 

Edited July 15 by Mexicola9302

[sutalu]

6 hours ago, gamerMK2 said:

What is reflection occlusion?

The theory:

 

https://learn.foundry.com/modo/12.2/content/help/pages/rendering/render_outputs_lighting.html

 

The Reflection Occlusion output renders an image that is strictly black and white, determining if a reflection ray off of an object has hit any other geometry in the scene. White if it has and black if it has not. The areas that appear as white here would be shaded with the background environment in a Final Color render.

 

 

More examples:

 

https://sdm.scad.edu/faculty/mkesson/vsfx419/wip/best/spring08/christopher_wilson/refloccl/refloccl.html

 

https://ubm-twvideo01.s3.amazonaws.com/o1/vault/GDC2014/Presentations/Pettineo_Matt_Crafting_A_Next-Gen.pdf (pages 19-20-21)

 

[Auzriel]

I might be too optimistic, but I hope they'll expand even more on customization. Here are my examples:
  +New house interiors (Maybe a new furnishing system) for existing houses and more houses to buy. (Especially houses around Chumash look brilliant.)
  +New tires (Drag slick tires, drift spec tires etc. that changes handling), more modifications on older cars.
  +More player customization. More hair styles and body shape/height options.
 

[VCPR]

there is always possibility that PC will stop getting updates with 8gens and 9gen scripts was added by mistake

[Spider-Vice]

And why even would that happen? Lmao. That makes no sense.

[videotech_]

Safe to say we can at least expect Rockstar and NVIDIA to partner up with DLSS support? 

[VCPR]

1 hour ago, Spider-Vice said:

And why even would that happen? Lmao. That makes no sense.

because SVNs are complicated? anyway, I can't trust R* after Defective Edition debacle so I prefer to expect the worst

[Mexicola9302]

11 hours ago, VideoTech said:

Safe to say we can at least expect Rockstar and NVIDIA to partner up with DLSS support? 

Most probably yes, because most games that support Raytracing also get DLSS support, and also because RDR2 has DLSS support. I would say there is a 99,99% chance there will be DLSS support. Also because of the new AA method they will add TAA.

 

When will the next DLC be released on the 19th or 26th, was there any leak that made it more clear?

 

It's annoying there still is no Newswire about the date, like usual R* going the radio silence route, and the last Community-Update Newswire also was too vague for my taste.

[theguy1998]

17 minutes ago, Mexicola9302 said:

Most probably yes, because most games that support Raytracing also get DLSS support, and also because RDR2 has DLSS support. I would say there is a 99,99% chance there will be DLSS support. Also because of the new AA method they will add TAA.

 

When will the next DLC be released on the 19th or 26th, was there any leak that made it more clear?

 

It's annoying there still is no Newswire about the date, like usual R* going the radio silence route, and the last Community-Update Newswire also was too vague for my taste.

The new speculated date is July 26th.

[ddarko12]

I'm pretty late to this topic so excuse me if this has already been covered. But what exactly is update2.rpf in the files?

[MrsRackman]

On 7/11/2022 at 4:44 AM, Spider-Vice said:

Right, let's go point by point.  

 

1. Potentially (attention, not necessarily, I am speculating), if it comes to PC in full with all the internal changes done on PS5 and Xbox Series.

2. To use your words, "graphical things". The graphical things caused some changes in all of the game files such as textures, and that could require a big download. There is no evidence that R* are changing the old files to change to these new formats on SteamDB for example. But again, this is just speculation, and there is a chance that this new graphics code supports the old file formats and everything would be ok.

3. No, no, we'd get the IAA Contact missions now as normal, but there's a chance there could be no "E&E" content until winter. We will have to wait for any potential news this weekend.

 

It's all speculation based on things I've read in modding circles and from my own understanding, don't take it too seriously - but it is something to consider.

 

Most likely, but honestly the current minimum spec already can't do as well as it did in 2015, so it's kind of needing a review anyway - new or old code. They've changed the size requirements but not the rest, that minimum spec machine does not run GTAO now as well as it did in 2015 I'd bet  

... and removed Windows Vista mentions from specs as well, tho the game still could run on Vista without any issues if only RGL wasn't released