GTA+ Criticisms, Rants, etc [please keep it civil!]

[Niii]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

The very same Sony who are now publishing their exclusives on PC? They aint stopping R* from releasing stuff on PC lol

With a delay. When we have a Sony game that comes out on PC and PS5 on the same day, it will be more interesting. Anyway, most of the Sony games, I play them on Youtube.

 

You know what can stop R* from releasing on PC, a contract, with a lot of money that has to be honoured. As it was in 2009 with Lost and Damned on 360. It's not a coincidence that R* has accepted, the 360 was far superior to the PS3 at that time and Microsoft was in a strong position. There was nothing  to stop Microsoft from wanting exclusivity for PC too and still. In fact, there are two things that could have prevented the deal, $50M was not enough or R* said no for PC and Microsoft went ahead with the deal anyway.

 

Sony would have liked to have the full exclusive on "E&E". You can demand whatever you want if you pay enough. The one who has the last word remains R* (and we know their appetite for money). Sony could have asked for total exclusivity, Rockstar would have said no knowing that they would lose a lot by not selling on Xbox, a compromise was found and it became exclusive to consoles. That may be what happened, it remains speculation. For Rockstar the release on the two main consoles is perhaps indisputable. The PC may be a factor that can change (which makes PC players feel like second-class citizens). To be quite honest with you, I don't even know what I'm talking about, it just makes sense to me to have conditions in a contract.

 

It's super easy for R* to justify the purchase of "E&E" on PC. People who buy a DLC have access to the E&E build. Different from the "old" one, which would still be available for purchase. Charge me $8 (jk, $15) for this sh*t and here you go. You pay for the game + DLC, genius !

GTA+ subscription on PC is much harder to justify though.

 

Small preview :

Spoiler

It's not true, don't panic

Edited March 31 by Niii

[Jason]

11 minutes ago, Niii said:

With a delay. When we have a Sony game that comes out on PC and PS5 on the same day, it will be more interesting. Anyway, most of the Sony games, I play them on Youtube.

 

You know what can stop R* from releasing on PC, a contract, with a lot of money that has to be honoured. As it was in 2009 with Lost and Damned on 360. It's not a coincidence that R* has accepted, the 360 was far superior to the PS3 at that time and Microsoft was in a strong position. There was nothing  to stop Microsoft from wanting exclusivity for PC too and still. In fact, there are two things that could have prevented the deal, $50M was not enough or R* said no for PC and Microsoft went ahead with the deal anyway.

 

Sony would have liked to have the full exclusive on "E&E". You can demand whatever you want if you pay enough. The one who has the last word remains R* (and we know their appetite for money). Sony could have asked for total exclusivity, Rockstar would have said no knowing that they would lose a lot by not selling on Xbox, a compromise was found and it became exclusive to consoles. That may be what happened, it remains speculation. For Rockstar the release on the two main consoles is perhaps indisputable. The PC may be a factor that can change (which makes PC players feel like second-class citizens). To be quite honest with you, I don't even know what I'm talking about, it just makes sense to me to have conditions in a contract.

 

It's super easy for R* to justify the purchase of "E&E" on PC. People who buy a DLC have access to the E&E build. Different from the "old" one, which would still be available for purchase. Charge me $8 (jk, $15) for this sh*t and here you go. You pay for the game + DLC, genius !

GTA+ subscription on PC is much harder to justify though.

 

Small preview :

  Reveal hidden contents

It's not true, don't panic

 

The IV DLC deal was done before the game even launched in a very different industry, long before the insane microtransaction profits and billion dollar franchises. PC gaming also was avoided by the AAA publishers like the plague back then due to insane fears of piracy. Nowadays, PC is a critical platform that on it's own sells just as well as either PS4 or Xbox - in fact it typically outsells Xbox an rivals and beats PS in some scenarios. PC versions of games also tend to have better sales legs long term however consoles may improve here with the improved backwards compat stuff going forward.

 

Sony now releasing games on PC is a sign they do not see it as a rival platform. Yes there is a delay however it is expected they will inevitably reach PC and console parity in terms of day 1 releases due to the increasing budgets of games and leaving money on the table by avoiding PC. Long term they likely see them offering the new PS+ program on PC as well, like GP, as again it's just leaving money on the table if they wouldn't.

 

I genuinely just find it odd that the reason for their lack of PC support is always put on some Sony deal when it never really makes any sense. Sony's rival is MS and Xbox and we see that through exclusive deals like E&E being free on PS for a limited time, that's the big contract, not no PC.

 

E&E isn't on PC because Rockstar don't treat PC with the same priority that they treat console. If you need proof of that, just look at all the games they've released where the PC version arrives later than console... cause it's a loooooooooooooooong list that stretches back right to the classic GTA era.

 

It aint a conspiracy theory when we have nearly 20 years of proof of them neglecting PC lol.

[SilverRST]

Ay Rocktard Gimps, I got some ideas for your monthly GTA+ crap:

 

GTA+ Basic: get basic handguns and throwables at start and a cheap home ($4.99/€4.99/£3.99)

GTA+ Standard: get one bazooka, a Panto and a decent home ($5.99/€5.99/£4.99)

GTA+ Gold: get all 20x Fireworks ammo, 10x Proximity mines, 10x Sticky bombs and SNS Pistol to prevent getting kidnapped by some skybike MKII ($7.99/€7.99/£6.99)

GTA+ Diamond: get all of the above including a hangar somewhere in Los Santos, a bunker and some coke compound ($9.99/€9.99/£8.99)

GTA+ Premium: this IS IT! Get all of the above including a Yatch, Karuma, heil Hydra airplane, Buzzard non-Attack Chopper, Chop dog and a panther big cat(!!!) ($14.99/€14.99/£13.99)

[Gridl0k]

- Makes street races require 2 players to launch

- Doesn't fix matchmaking bug where it needs a couple sessions to start working

- Puts 4x LSCM rep on them

[Niii]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

I genuinely just find it odd that the reason for their lack of PC support is always put on some Sony deal when it never really makes any sense. Sony's rival is MS and Xbox and we see that through exclusive deals like E&E being free on PS for a limited time, that's the big contract, not no PC.

E&E isn't on PC because Rockstar don't treat PC with the same priority that they treat console. If you need proof of that, just look at all the games they've released where the PC version arrives later than console... cause it's a loooooooooooooooong list that stretches back right to the classic GTA era. It aint a conspiracy theory when we have nearly 20 years of proof of them neglecting PC lol.

I have a hard time understanding why the PC version is not a priority, it is ready, well it was. Releasing it at the same time as the consoles was not a waste of money, it was extra money. If it's fear of piracy, people will just play the single player or FiveM, not GTA Online, which is what makes money and this is a unique case, we're not talking about a new original game, it's its third console release and all it needs is an update for PC version, which is probably already ready. They are deliberately blocking new content and putting it behind microtransactions with GTA+.

 

There's no need to prove that R* hates PC, we know. Why do they hate it? They have no reason in 2022 as you point out. Piracy, although still existing, does not allow to play GTA Online.

Rockstar preferred to do marketing with Sony and for its dubious subscription called GTA+ rather than clarify the PC version. It's like dancing on a corpse, it's not very respectful.

The only admissible reason imo is that they have difficulties with raytracing on PC because of thousand different configurations. GTA+ was the highlight of the show, the last nail in the coffin, which is not even a coffin anymore, it is an iron maiden.

 

About Sony, we know they've always been the favorites since GTA3. Xbox seems quiet about "E&E" compared to Sony, like they don't give a sh*t while Sony makes tons of it, the contrast is just funny. And it is necessary to designate a culprit, as a PC player, it feels weird to attack your Xbox brothers. The real culprit is T2 and only T2 of course. They make Epic Games look like good guys.

There's nothing serious, they already have enough bugs to fix on consoles, I can be patient for PC. On the other hand, GTA+ is a heresy, I don't change my opinion about that, it's a disgusting practice and it should stay on consoles, the main target of mtx.

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, Niii said:

I have a hard time understanding why the PC version is not a priority, it is ready, well it was. Releasing it at the same time as the consoles was not a waste of money, it was extra money. If it's fear of piracy, people will just play the single player or FiveM, not GTA Online, which is what makes money and this is a unique case, we're not talking about a new original game, it's its third console release and all it needs is an update for PC version, which is probably already ready. They are deliberately blocking new content and putting it behind microtransactions with GTA+.

 

Piracy is a non-issue now, I was referring to back in the IV days. Double dipping is a reason publishers delay PC releases yes, but with the service driven industry right now it makes more sense for day 1 releases so you can monetise your PC audience straight away.

 

10 minutes ago, Niii said:

The only admissible reason imo is that they have difficulties with raytracing on PC because of thousand different configurations. GTA+ was the highlight of the show, the last nail in the coffin, which is not even a coffin anymore, it is an iron maiden.

 

Raytracing is significantly easier on PC due to DLSS and FSR.

 

10 minutes ago, Niii said:

About Sony, we know they've always been the favorites since GTA3. Xbox seems quiet about "E&E" compared to Sony, like they don't give a sh*t while Sony makes tons of it, the contrast is just funny. And it is necessary to designate a culprit, as a PC player, it feels weird to attack your Xbox brothers. The real culprit is T2 and only T2 of course. They make Epic Games look like good guys.

 

MS are quiet because they have no marketing deal with R* for it. MS have their own marketing deals like Sony do, for games like ACV, Cyberpunk and more. However MS under Phil Spencer have not been fans of exclusivity deals with these marketing deals, hence no exclusive deals. Sony on the other hand still utilize exclusive elements for their marketing deals.

 

I'm not defending R* or making up excuses for them, but there's no secret reason for why their PC support is lacking. It's simply always been a lower priority than console. Why they can't release PC and console day 1 for full new games I can only assume is due to incompetency and nothing more, as it's standard practice for other publishers, even the incredibly console (and PS focused) devs from Japan are starting to get their new games out day 1 on PC.

[Niii]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

Raytracing is significantly easier on PC due to DLSS and FSR.

I think it's easier to make 3 RDNA2 optimized configurations for consoles with fixed hardware than to test thousands of PC configurations.

Edited March 31 by Niii

[Jason]

26 minutes ago, Niii said:

I think it's easier to make 3 RDNA2 optimized configurations for consoles with fixed hardware than to test thousands of PC configurations.

 

Yes, if we're being pedantic., it's of course easier to develop and optimise games on console compared to PC, which is possibly another big reason why R* prioritise console.

 

But if we're talking raytracing specifically it's much easier to implement it on PC than it is console because PC has access to FSR and especially DLSS which greatly reduce the performance costs of raytracing. Hence why we see far more raytracing support on PC vs console, even on multiplatform games where raytracing is sometimes coming post-launch in patches etc.

[Spider-Vice]

Fun fact: GTA V on next-gen is actually using FSR as per the credits.

 

 

 

I'm not fully sure if FSR 1.0 is supported on consoles (might be as it's open source) or if this is a sign the PC version might use it, much like RDR2 "leaked" that the PC version would use the Vulkan graphics API by including it even in the console credits.

[Ash_735]

10 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

I'm not fully sure if FSR 1.0 is supported on consoles

It is, it's been confirmed GTAV on consoles is using FSR1.0, hopefully Rockstar remember to update it to FSR2.0 later in the year since it also works on consoles but produces much better results.

[videotech_]

12 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

Fun fact: GTA V on next-gen is actually using FSR as per the credits.

 

 

 

I'm not fully sure if FSR 1.0 is supported on consoles (might be as it's open source) or if this is a sign the PC version might use it, much like RDR2 "leaked" that the PC version would use the Vulkan graphics API by including it even in the console credits.

Man, I hope they're going to update to FSR 2.0 soon. The performance modes often look a little like a painting on certain foliage. I believe the SDK from AMD is ready for consoles to ship, but will Rockstar consider updating it? 

 

 

[Zak Ras]

I've changed my mind;

 

EDIT: Not really, April Fools - it's the worst idea R* have had since the direction of GTA Online's updates throughout 2016 - 2018 and gives veteran players who have been with the franchise prior to 2013 the reason needed to disregard purchasing GTA VI.

 

 

Edited April 2 by Zak Ras

[Rvfae]

BRUH

 

@Kirsty @Shill-Vice

[Shadowfennekin]

15 hours ago, RyuNova said:

 

And yet they all buy it to keep milking views. They are like the people who complain about Capitalism using a megaphone while stood on top of their Lamborghinis.

It's more of a "I bought this so you don't have to" situation like movie reviewers going to see a movie even though they know it's going to be garbage(Morbius)

 

Anyone that clicks it is going to realize that GTA+ isn't that great. The yacht's not even good nor does it really provide any use, it's just tacted on to make it more appealing for noobs and dumbasses. The yacht is just a useless paperweight 

[Quinn_flower]

8 hours ago, Zak Ras said:

I've changed my mind;

 

 

 

hahah the joker dancing does it for me lol good job lol

[Malibu Club]

You're all exaggerating. I just bought GTA+ and I LOVE it! I take back everything I said before, and rockstar is INSTANTLY redeemed in my eyes! Can't wait for GTA 6!

Edited April 1 by Super Gran Turismo
too mean

[Killerman29]

nice april fools day joke rockstar, now you can stop

[Fuzzy___Cat]

17 hours ago, Zak Ras said:

I've changed my mind;

 

 

 

I want my 47 seconds back.

[Quinn_flower]

i bought gta + on stadia and you know what? its not that bad. gotta support the indy devs

[Marciliojunior01]

8 hours ago, Quinn_flower said:

i bought gta + on stadia and you know what? its not that bad. gotta support the indy devs

Gtamen nailed it in that video 

[RyuNova]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:15 AM, Shadowfennekin said:

It's more of a "I bought this so you don't have to" situation like movie reviewers going to see a movie even though they know it's going to be garbage(Morbius)

 

 

I disagree. It's more like them preaching about how sh*t a restaurant is for weeks while it's being built and then them being one of the first inside eating and then telling you how sh*t it is while their cheeks bulge from food. If these people had any morals, they would disable monetisation on videos about GTA+ content, then they can still make content but not look like hypocrites.

 

As I said earlier, it's like them moaning about Capitalism while stood on top of their Supercars, chanting about how we are all in this together.

Edited April 2 by RyuNova

[Commander S]

So, I was re-reading pundit/writer Shamus Young's retrospective on GTA IV, and this part stuck out (for context, he's bemoaning the sorry state of the GTA IV PC port, even in 2018):

 

"Rockstar loves using their cutscenes to take swipes at “evil corporations” and “greed” and “capitalism”. While I’m normally down for calling out scummy companies for scummy practices, I find their attempts at this sort of social commentary to be enraging. GTA V made one billion US dollars in the first three days of sales. They could have given away the game for free from that point on and it still would have made them back five times their purported development costs and ranked as the most profitable game since World of Warcraft. But then they went on to add the multiplayer stuff with PvP and scummy pay-to-win microtransactions. This company is the poster child for corporate avarice and contempt for the consumer, and if they can’t spend the small handful of man-hours to remove the now-defunct malware from GTA IV[2], then I don’t think they have any room to be criticizing the likes of Apple computer, McDonald’s, or any of their usual punching bags. Hypocrisy is not a good look, and it’s completely destructive to Rockstar’s attempts at social “satire”."

 

(bold emphasis mine)

 

I've said as much for ages: GTA V made so much in the first week that Rockstar could have given it away from then on, and still made more money than what a more conventional best-seller makes in years. The Witcher 3 sold 11 million copies in two years. Monster Hunter: World did the same in just one year. GTA V hit 11 million in ...the first 48 hours. Rockstar arguably didn't need to have Shark Cards at all (after all, Hello Games makes do selling No Man's Sky with no additonal monetisation, and just gives away all the many, many updates to NMS, for free). Shoving a subscription service on top is ...well, I said it at the time: it feels like satire of Rockstar/GTAO (irony of ironies!).

Edited April 2 by Commander S

[Shadowfennekin]

39 minutes ago, Commander S said:

So, I was re-reading pundit/writer Shamus Young's retrospective on GTA IV, and this part stuck out (for context, he's bemoaning the sorry state of the GTA IV PC port, even in 2018):

 

"Rockstar loves using their cutscenes to take swipes at “evil corporations” and “greed” and “capitalism”. While I’m normally down for calling out scummy companies for scummy practices, I find their attempts at this sort of social commentary to be enraging. GTA V made one billion US dollars in the first three days of sales. They could have given away the game for free from that point on and it still would have made them back five times their purported development costs and ranked as the most profitable game since World of Warcraft. But then they went on to add the multiplayer stuff with PvP and scummy pay-to-win microtransactions. This company is the poster child for corporate avarice and contempt for the consumer, and if they can’t spend the small handful of man-hours to remove the now-defunct malware from GTA IV[2], then I don’t think they have any room to be criticizing the likes of Apple computer, McDonald’s, or any of their usual punching bags. Hypocrisy is not a good look, and it’s completely destructive to Rockstar’s attempts at social “satire”."

 

(bold emphasis mine)

 

I've said as much for ages: GTA V made so much in the first week that Rockstar could have given it away from then on, and still made more money than what a more conventional best-seller makes in years. The Witcher 3 sold 11 million copies in two years. Monster Hunter: World did the same in just one year. GTA V hit 11 million in ...the first 48 hours. Rockstar arguably didn't need to have Shark Cards at all (after all, Hello Games makes do selling No Man's Sky with no additonal monetisation, and just gives away all the many, many updates to NMS, for free). Shoving a subscription service on top is ...well, I said it at the time: it feels like satire of Rockstar/GTAO (irony of ironies!).

They should have just upright given this version of GTA away(Well they did on PS but good luck if you don't have one yet, nor have a friend that can log in for you)

It would have felt less of a slap if they gave the game away. Hopefully they give the PS4/XB1 crowd the same amount of time to transfer as the PS3/360 players had(If not more considering the shortage) I honestly expect new content to stop after December but the transfer should remain active for the foreseeable future. I'd hate to see people screwed over cause they couldn't grab one of the NG consoles even if they wanted to, forcing themselves to start over while R* is promoting GTA+ as a means of getting back on their feet. Transfers should last into 2024/2025

[CarimboHanky]

13 hours ago, Shadowfennekin said:

Transfers should last into 2024/2025

they seem to be moving faster to cut off lastgen, i mean moving from ps3 to ps4 i never felt like i had to rush because they kept adding the same content on both versions, ps4 version got a couple of shirts for transfering but you could get those anytime during the transfer window, right now they just released the "new version" of gtao and what a week later they have already added time-limited items, f*cked collectors that cant transfer because they dont have a new console.

 

my disappointment with the way R* has handled the move to the new consoles is huge.

[Spider-Vice]

Bump.

Cross-posting this from the general announcement topic which just became a loop of arguments, and for the sake of organisation:

1 hour ago, Spider-Vice said:

Hi all. Because this topic has obviously started to go on a loop of the same stuff over and over, we're going back to the original planned structure of having a subscribers/general chat kinda topic where content can be speculated about, discussed, or where people can ask subscribers stuff, and a B&M topic for those who want to criticise, vent and discuss about how bad the subscription is, their worries for the future, or anything else they want to let out their chest.

 

Please don't use the subscribers topic to yell at subs for owning it, but obviously feel free to ask questions or make comments on how good or bad a specific GTA+ month is. Same thing goes for subs yelling at people who are sceptical, don't do that either and don't bait those who are sceptical into arguments either.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Feel free to use this for all your venting, discussions on the future of the game, worries, concerns, criticisms, etc.

[Jenkiiii]

GTA+ has benefitted me because I now appreciate that this is the end of a personal gaming era.

 

A year or two ago I thought about the inevitability that one day Rockstar would release an all-in GOTY package with everything included. They haven't done that yet and it won't reach this point for another XX years, but they're moving there slowly through GTA+. There is now a definite end point.

 

The game we are currently playing is still alive and well but it's also dying because Rockstar are in full development of GTA VI. I respect that. There is no point grinding yet more millions of GTA cash and RP that will never be used or spent. One day everything we own in-game will be worthless because the game will be superceded by the next game or through an all-inclusive noob package. Just to reemphasize this point.

 

If you are invested in GTA online as a form of external income such as a Youtuber, streamer, forum admin with advertising, etc; then your interests will be the same as Rockstar's: generate cash until the next game comes out, but if you're a minion like me, you're flogging the same dead horse.

 

GTA+ is great for noobs or for these real-world financially invested players, but rubbish for vets. The Mile High club will never be finished, triple-triple cash will never be fully spent and liveries and other aesthetics will never be appreciated.

 

It is time for a new gaming experience and to revisit GTA when it's time to see an old friend; the inevitable summer update comes to mind, but I can't do the grind any more and I will never sign up for GTA+ for this version of GTA online. I will reevaluate it when GTA VI comes out and when a subscription is a beneficial possibilty.

 

EDIT

I have edited and appended the end of this post because I am genuinely excited about the future of GTA online. GTA+ has made me realize that Rockstar are under massive development of GTA VI and this is their way of funneling maximum income from the old game. I can't buy into that regurgitated mess any more, but I am reassured that the future is bright.

 

 

Edited April 28 by Jenkiiii

[ilRae]

14 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

There is no point grinding yet more millions of GTA cash and RP that will never be used or spent. One day everything we own in-game will be worthless because the game will be superceded by the next game or through an all-inclusive noob package. Just to reemphasize this point.

 

It's ok to play games for fun, and not grind them to death. Friends and I will do stupid things all the time. Can't remember the last time anyone really 'grinded' for money. We jump Vigilantes at the skate park and see who can land the agency building with only one boost. We load up a bus (or two) and see how long we survive in a full session, trying to pick up everyone before we get blown up. Race from the airport to the top of Chiliad in GoKarts. The endless nonsense this game provides far outweighs the negatives, still today.

[Jenkiiii]

3 minutes ago, ilRae said:

It's ok to play games for fun, and not grind them to death. Friends and I will do stupid things all the time. Can't remember the last time anyone really 'grinded' for money. We jump Vigilantes at the skate park and see who can land the agency building with only one boost. We load up a bus (or two) and see how long we survive in a full session, trying to pick up everyone before we get blown up. Race from the airport to the top of Chiliad in GoKarts. The endless nonsense this game provides far outweighs the negatives, still today.

Sure, I feel ya, but maybe we are from different GTA eras? I remember the GTA IV swing glitch and getting thrown across the map, and getting hurled across Blaine County in a fire truck eight years ago in GTA online, but this is the past for me and many others. But if you're still having fun with the basic core mechanics then good for you, sincerely. I know lots of creator crews will never get bored with tweaking the permitted elasticity of the code and I wish them all the best.

 

Personally, I need something fresh and I have been sick of the second-string of Rockstar employees who market the living death out of this game for years. I want to see what the Rockstar devs have to offer now.

 

[GTAJJ]

48 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

One day everything we own in-game will be worthless because the game will be superceded by the next game or through an all-inclusive noob package.

 

That's basically every digital in-game item haha. People ham on stuff like NFTs and then go buy a skin or something which is truly worthless. It's just how much you value it, which for the most part is always overcompensated.

 

33 minutes ago, ilRae said:

It's ok to play games for fun, and not grind them to death.

 

100% but it's an ultimatum we are given. If you want to dick about and have your own creative personal fun, you're equally punished by not having the very thing that progresses you with rewards - GTA$. Due to the way the game has been designed, you have to do certain tasks to get GTA$, and the imbalance basically tells you if you want to minimise the grind, go to Cayo and then Cayo, and then... Cayo. So you have to choose if you want to sacrifice having fun for funds that will grant you access to future possible fun, or buy Shark Cards 24/7 and do whatever you want.

 

For me, I'll grind out the game until I feel I have enough for the next update (150MM) - I know my repetitiveness will eventually be converted into fun. And hopefully it'll come with things I can use to have fun while earning some of that money back. And then back to Cayo to top up. Ad infinitum.

[ilRae]

16 minutes ago, GTAJJ said:

 

That's basically every digital in-game item haha. People ham on stuff like NFTs and then go buy a skin or something which is truly worthless. It's just how much you value it, which for the most part is always overcompensated.

 

 

100% but it's an ultimatum we are given. If you want to dick about and have your own creative personal fun, you're equally punished by not having the very thing that progresses you with rewards - GTA$. Due to the way the game has been designed, you have to do certain tasks to get GTA$, and the imbalance basically tells you if you want to minimise the grind, go to Cayo and then Cayo, and then... Cayo. So you have to choose if you want to sacrifice having fun for funds that will grant you access to future possible fun, or buy Shark Cards 24/7 and do whatever you want.

 

For me, I'll grind out the game until I feel I have enough for the next update (150MM) - I know my repetitiveness will eventually be converted into fun. And hopefully it'll come with things I can use to have fun while earning some of that money back. And then back to Cayo to top up. Ad infinitum.

Umm, we all own everything we want by now. Their complaint was being bored by the grind, and my counter was simply that you can just have fun, you don't have to grind if you have everything.