Russia invades Ukraine

[Craigsters]

 

Russian Counselor to UN Quits ... Burns Lavrov !

 

news article here  and reuters

Edited May 23, 2022 by Craigsters

[SonnyNapoli]

So recentley I've had a few hours of free time, so I've decided to check up the news what's going on around the world. Maybe while we are at war there is something good going on? 

Shouldn't allow my expectations be so high.

Don't exactly know where we all going, but I've got a strange feeling it's not going to be pretty, to say the least. Feels like the almighty clusterf*ck is around the corner.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by SonnyNapoli

[ṼirulenⱦEqừinox]

Russia say's they have scrapped the 40 year old age limit for the armed forces

 

Russia has scrapped its age limit for professional soldiers, paving the way for more civilian experts to be recruited for the Ukraine conflict.

President Vladimir Putin has signed a law enabling people over 40 to enlist for the armed forces. They are expected to be people of normal working age.

Previously the army had age limits of 18-40 years for Russians and 18-30 for foreigners.

 

Russia is presenting it as a move to recruit more technical specialists.

 

The new law says specialists are required to operate high-precision weapons and "experience shows that they become such by the age of 40-45". More medics, engineers and communications experts may also be recruited.

 

Ukrainian and Western military experts say Russia has suffered heavy losses in the war: about 30,000 killed, according to Ukraine, while the UK government estimates the toll at about 15,000. In comparison, Soviet losses in nine years of war in Afghanistan were about 15,000.

 

Russia gave a total of 1,351 dead on 25 March (Even then that was a lie), which it has not updated.

 

President Putin has avoided large-scale conscription for what Russia calls its "special military operation" in Ukraine.

 

But in March Russia's defence ministry admitted that some conscripts were involved in the conflict and some had been taken prisoner by Ukrainian forces. The defence ministry stressed that it was not official policy to send conscripts into battle.

 

Later, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said that those conscripts drafted into the military this spring would not be sent to any hotspots.

 

Conscription, also known as the draft, is a centuries-old practice for states to require large numbers of men to serve in the military. Russia's conscription, dating back to tsarist times, obliges men aged 18 to 27 to serve one year in the military. But many get exemptions on medical grounds, or because they are students.

 

Russia now has more than 400,000 professional "contract" soldiers in its 900,000-strong active armed forces. It can also mobilize about two million reservists, military analysts say.

Ukraine's army is a lot smaller - it has an estimated 200,000 active troops and 900,000 reservists, though it has boosted those numbers through mass mobilization since Russia invaded on 24 February.

 

Under its current martial law, Ukraine forbids men aged 18 to 60 from leaving the country, demanding that they stay and fight. So women, children and the elderly form the vast majority of refugees fleeing to neighbouring countries.

 

Ukraine's military says it is not yet conscripting women, but some can be drafted exceptionally if their skills in medicine, IT or other areas are needed.

 

Many countries have military conscription, though the rules vary widely. They include Israel, Turkey, Iran, Sweden and Georgia.

 

The UK and US are among many other countries which have fully professional armies, as well as reservists who can be called up in an emergency. The UK had conscription in both world wars, and the US had the draft during the Vietnam

 

 

[Plage]

On 5/29/2022 at 3:17 AM, ṼirulenⱦEqừinox said:

Under its current martial law, Ukraine forbids men aged 18 to 60 from leaving the country, demanding that they stay and fight.

 

And still Berlin for example is full of Ukrainian males in fighting age.

[Darth Absentis]

I feel either Ukraine is doing some tactical retreating, or they should hurry up with getting the new weapons in action.

Sure Russia is sending in old armored vehicles, but that is still self propelled artillery, which tends to be the thing that can be used quite effective, regardless age, if using the right tactics.  

What i think is good though for Ukraine is if Russia actually will be using 50+ year old guys, give them 30 days training and then use them as cannon fodder. 

Sure might sound bad, but they are already demoralizing Russia by having all those missing Russian soldiers, so coldly speaking that might almost be considered an advantage.

 

Besides that i am wondering now is Ukraine is getting M270 MLRS or not, or just MLRS without those special far reaching missiles and just armed with rockets.

They are extremely vague about that, or i missed something.

[ṼirulenⱦEqừinox]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:31 PM, Plage said:

 

And still Berlin for example is full of Ukrainian males in fighting age.

Those men had probably been living in Berlin or had left Ukraine prior to the war starting (It's not like they didn't have a huge advance warning or anything) or crossed illegally after the war started as Border guards turned away any male between ages 18-60 when they showed up at the border trying to leave and those who refused to turn back were detained.

 

Ukraine can't force those men to come back to Ukraine, They would have to come back under their own free will

[ArmanCan]

Talking about young people..

 

 

The russian army is already "loose"ing 

[Darth Absentis]

The Channel Speak the truth really is suffering under pro-Ukraine bias i feel.

Or maybe i am just noticing now.

Really, his map analyzing is interesting, but besides that i feel like i have to believe any loss Ukraine made in the past 20 days was no big problem, same for their being pretty much almost a stalemate situation for a while now.

 

Thank god we still have actual people that can stay more rational.

 

 

[ṼirulenⱦEqừinox]

Dude just admit you're Pro Russian already we can all tell you are, Not to mention how obvious it is despite you're attempts to be subtle about it Just about everything you have posted so far has been in support of Russia one way or another

Edited June 5, 2022 by ṼirulenⱦEqừinox

[ArmanCan]

I've found another video about the actual situation of russian army..

 

 

[Darth Absentis]

11 hours ago, ṼirulenⱦEqừinox said:

Dude just admit you're Pro Russian already we can all tell you are, Not to mention how obvious it is despite you're attempts to be subtle about it Just about everything you have posted so far has been in support of Russia one way or another

 An outright pathetic claim considering i live in Belgium and i'd rather not see to much important land in hands of Russia for obvious reasons, seeing how we are already to independent on Russia as it is, considering the prices of gas and oil here since the war started.

 

If you of course can point out where exactly i hold pro-Russian sentiment, i'd be listening, but i do not expect to much from someone rocking the Ukraine flag and claiming bias from other people.

People like that are generally not really constructive to have an argument with in my experience.

 

If you are how ever bothered by someone not playing along the pro-Ukraine propaganda mill and is currently worried that Ukraine might not get all their territory back they lost since the war started, you'd might better ignore me though, i do not tend to change my opinion just because someone can not handle it, not even IRL.

 

edit: 

I am still amazed how well this war is actually documented, or at least said information seems reachable. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Darth Absentis
going back trying to stay relevant to the topic

[Aquamaniac]

The Russian offensive already appears to be stalled with heavy losses, Russia might loose nearly all their active army in this war if they continue the way they do. But before the military disaster there was the intelligence disaster, it is obvious that the Russians barely expected any resistance. Given that Putin is a former spy how could he so badly fail in terms of intelligence? With proper intelligence Putin would either not have started the war or mobilized much more troops, it seems the Russians had absolutely no idea what was awaiting them.

 

Quote

If you are how ever bothered by someone not playing along the pro-Ukraine propaganda mill and is currently worried that Ukraine might not get all their territory back they lost since the war started, you'd might better ignore me though, i do not tend to change my opinion just because someone can not handle it, not even IRL.

 

They hardly will get Crimea back but it seems Russia is wasting nearly its entire active army to conquer some neighboring counties, this will be after all a disaster for Russia even if they keep parts of the coast occupied. It is an economical and human disaster for Ukraine too of course but they got no choice.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Aquamaniac

[Pete4000uk]

I hope the medium range missiles that are heading over there make a big difference and give the Russians a good spanking. 

[sivispacem]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:31 PM, Darth Absentis said:

being pretty much almost a stalemate

I don't think you quite understand what a "stalemate" is.

 

Were we in a situation where both Russia and Ukraine were expending significant efforts in trying to capture/recapture territory and failing to do so, that would be a "stalemate". But the situation we actually find ourselves in is Russia abjectly failing to gain ground in any really meaningful way, and Ukraine inflicting huge casualties on Russia as they make a series of tactical retreats. Ukraine has been pretty clear they're not gong to be running any large scale counteroffensives until the end of this month or the beginning of July, so to describe the situation as a "stalemate" isn't entirely accurate. Ukraine isn't really trying to make progress yet, just maximise Russian casualties and minimise ground lost whilst gearing up for its own counter-offensives. 

[Darth Absentis]

On 6/6/2022 at 12:35 PM, Aquamaniac said:

The Russian offensive already appears to be stalled with heavy losses, Russia might loose nearly all their active army in this war if they continue the way they do. But before the military disaster there was the intelligence disaster, it is obvious that the Russians barely expected any resistance. Given that Putin is a former spy how could he so badly fail in terms of intelligence? With proper intelligence Putin would either not have started the war or mobilized much more troops, it seems the Russians had absolutely no idea what was awaiting them.

 

 

They hardly will get Crimea back but it seems Russia is wasting nearly its entire active army to conquer some neighboring counties, this will be after all a disaster for Russia even if they keep parts of the coast occupied. It is an economical and human disaster for Ukraine too of course but they got no choice.

 

Losing nearly all their active army ? yea they wont let that happen i think, that is for what those Russian conscripts will be for i think.

Thank god they are a corrupt bunch and the sanctions from 2014 likely limited their military tech upgrades too. I'd really wonder what would have happened if Russia actually would have functioned on a decent level for the past 8 years instead of it being all a facade, that let's be honest, tricked even most analysts into thinking Ukraine did not stand a chance.

 

Yea the coastline is the actual target i feel, though i doubt they ever will manage to go for Odessa. Still i am a bit worried. If Russia had made sense they'd just could have claimed after phase 2 failed, that they just weakened Ukraine on a military level and keep it at that. 

Seeing however that they are not doing that, i do think they are actually not planning to return all occupied territory they are currently holding though. Or at least use it as leverage for some negotiations...if they manage it. 

 

Speaking off:

 

17 hours ago, sivispacem said:

I don't think you quite understand what a "stalemate" is.

 

Were we in a situation where both Russia and Ukraine were expending significant efforts in trying to capture/recapture territory and failing to do so, that would be a "stalemate". But the situation we actually find ourselves in is Russia abjectly failing to gain ground in any really meaningful way, and Ukraine inflicting huge casualties on Russia as they make a series of tactical retreats. Ukraine has been pretty clear they're not gong to be running any large scale counteroffensives until the end of this month or the beginning of July, so to describe the situation as a "stalemate" isn't entirely accurate. Ukraine isn't really trying to make progress yet, just maximise Russian casualties and minimise ground lost whilst gearing up for its own counter-offensives. 

 

 

I feel tactical retreat is often overused do admit losses.

Though legit question: are there any numbers on the kind of losses that were verified, that prove Russia took way more losses then Ukraine in regards of material and personel within let's say, the past 10 to 7 days ?

If there is and it says the Russians really did take a lot more losses then Ukraine, i agree that it is worth to be called a tactical retreat.

 

Aha, so we'd rather be waiting for any real counteroffensive for an other month ? Did not know.

Though again legit question, does that has to do with the arrival of new weapons and the training needed to operate them then ?

 

Still, i am actually legit worried those 'new' T62 tanks will be used in a field gun role, as to help fortify locations that are currently in the hands of the Russians like Kherson.

Same for using those conscripts, not only as cannon fodder, but also to help keep current claimed areas under guard.

In the end, nothing stops the Russians from just digging ditches and fortifying the positions they really would like to keep i guess.

 

That being said, though this is quite speculative i understand, i do actually see Russia leaving the north east front in the long therm. 

the coast line how ever, especially the landbridge from the Khakovka reservoir to Mariupol ?

actually no, not really. Not if they can keep it.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Darth Absentis
typo's

[sivispacem]

39 minutes ago, Darth Absentis said:

Though legit question: are there any numbers on the kind of losses that were verified, that prove Russia took way more losses then Ukraine in regards of material and personel within let's say, the past 10 to 7 days ?

For materiél, certainly. Visually confirmed losses of Russians military hardware have actually accelerated in the last few months- they're something like 5:1 at this point. And let's not forget that the West is pouring huge amounts of materiél into the country- Ukraine likely currently has more of various types of hardware than they did before the war. Conversely, Russia has expended or lost significant proportions of its entire inventory of modern munitions and materiél. The only area Russia has capitalised on what significant material advantages they have has been in artillery and even that's rapidly degrading.

 

Human losses are much harder to quantify, but Ukraine has a huge manpower advantage. It's something like 7:1. They're far more able to sustain heavy combat casualties; the biggest issues they face are actually around remobilising forces previously deployed on the North to the combat zones in the East. Ukraine is also properly rotating their troops and giving fighters proper rest. This is something difficult for Russia to do because they're extremely overextended despite no longer contesting in two of the three initial theatres of the war.

[Darth Absentis]

2 hours ago, sivispacem said:

For materiél, certainly. Visually confirmed losses of Russians military hardware have actually accelerated in the last few months- they're something like 5:1 at this point. And let's not forget that the West is pouring huge amounts of materiél into the country- Ukraine likely currently has more of various types of hardware than they did before the war. Conversely, Russia has expended or lost significant proportions of its entire inventory of modern munitions and materiél. The only area Russia has capitalised on what significant material advantages they have has been in artillery and even that's rapidly degrading.

 

Human losses are much harder to quantify, but Ukraine has a huge manpower advantage. It's something like 7:1. They're far more able to sustain heavy combat casualties; the biggest issues they face are actually around remobilising forces previously deployed on the North to the combat zones in the East. Ukraine is also properly rotating their troops and giving fighters proper rest. This is something difficult for Russia to do because they're extremely overextended despite no longer contesting in two of the three initial theatres of the war.

 

Last few months...well, i know Ukraine did outright outstanding until the last few weeks or so, but so i guess the material losses for the Russians then are still stacking up even after that point then ?

I did not know NATO hardware is actually getting trough that fast on all levels. Thanks to Perun i understood Ukraine got a lot from Poland, but i had no idea there was again still enough hardware in general to go around in Ukraine for Ukraine forces at this point. I'd be under the impression their more advanced Anti-Tank weapons and drones ran low TBH.

 

Their artillery too ? Which ones though ? i Thought they did have in general the artillery with the most range and accuracy, hence the need of m777 howitzers, HIMARS and other more advanced artillery. I know there are M777's already at the front if not mistaken....are they using those then ? To be fair i can not seem to find what kind of artillery Russia is even using except for the 2s7 pion and BM21 grads

 

7:1, i am guessing that is without the idea of older Russian conscripts entering the game i guess. Which to be fair, still sounds kinda like canon fodder and a recipe for certain disaster if those wont be motivated enough and still did not actually happen.

 

Also was totally clueless Russia was again overextending, what are the sources even on that ?

 

Either way glad to hear supplies are coming in fast, last thing i'd like to see besides Ukraine failing is the war evolving in a slow war.

I'd hate to see the Russians and Ukraine forces digging in for a true war of nutrition. 

 

Personally for an example i can deal with the sanctions and the downsides of those this far, but inside the EU, not everyone is that fortunate and this strong EU front bending in the middle of an important proxy war that is actually important would really give bad morale.

 

I sometimes feel that, if the Russian bots/pro-Russian people all over social media stopped talking about denazification of the EU and hinting the EU is run by nazi's(not even most COVID crisis conspiracy theorists are insane enough to buy that) and instead rather talked much more about how the EU is actually gonna suffer under those sanctions too, EU population would end up more divided faster.

[SonnyNapoli]

Was glad to hear that Boris gets to stay as PM and keep doing what he's doing. Bold!

Royal Bulldog will keep biting them hard.

 

[Aquamaniac]

19 hours ago, Darth Absentis said:

 

Losing nearly all their active army ?

 

 

 

British sources claim that a 3rd of the Russian invasion forces have been destroyed (70.000 - killed, wounded or POW). Russian military is not as big as one might think. The numbers I heard are total of about a million troops. Among these 1 million are airforce, navy and missile forces, regular ground forces (army) about 200.000 men. Police forces and other paramilitary not counted.

 

Russian invasion forces are said to be 150- to 200.000 troops. Among them also police forces (OMON e.g.) and national guard (Kadyrowzy e.g.) - so not only regular army - Anyways a vast part of Russia's regular army appear to be deployed in Ukraine where they suffer vast losses. New recruits, reservists etc. is not what I mean by active army, neither police forces like OMON. Of course Russia might mobilize much more troops, but they would not be what is their active army now and perform likely even poorer. Especially Russian airborne troopers are said to have suffered horrible casualties at the failed attack on Kiew early in the beginning of the war and these were likely the Gobnik elite.

 

So we will see what is left of the active (more or less trained and experienced) Russian army at the end of this war. 

 

Quote

Seeing however that they are not doing that, i do think they are actually not planning to return all occupied territory they are currently holding though. Or at least use it as leverage for some negotiations...if they manage it. 

 

Russia won't give back anything unless the Ukrainians beat them out of their country. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Aquamaniac

[Darth Absentis]

 

Just thought this might be something to consider.

 

edit; that moment channel 'speak the truth' seems more and more like propaganda, we have this: 

I do like seeing people admit what they do not want to seem true TBH over circle jerks.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Darth Absentis

[Mexicola9302]

Kyiv says sophisticated German artillery now deployed in Ukraine

 

Ukraine said it had “finally” deployed an advanced German artillery system, in the latest delivery of the long-range, precision weapons that it has been calling for.

“Panzerhaubitze 2000 are finally part of 155 mm howitzer arsenal of the Ukrainian artillery,” Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksiy Reznikov wrote on social media, thanking his German counterpart Christine Lambrecht.

Germany said last month it would send seven self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine, ramping up deliveries of heavy weapons to help Kyiv battle Russia’s invasion.

 

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/21/russia-ukraine-live-news-severodonetsk-just-hell-governor-liveblog

[Plage]

Its actually four from us and three from the Netherlands AFAIK.

[Mexicola9302]

6 hours ago, Plage said:

Its actually four from us and three from the Netherlands AFAIK.

They all been build in germany, does it really matter? They can shoot targets at 40 kilometers distance.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Mexicola9302

[Plage]

The Ukrainians have hit a Russian ammo depot at Khurstalnyi. Here's is the footage of one of the Russian soliders there.

 

https://twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/status/1539594028727123972?s=20&t=C9OuwtuKF269WhR3yMNz2w

 

Holy smokes!

 

[Darth Absentis]

Said it before, said it again(not sure if here or elsewhere)just a handful of Pzh 2000's for an area as big as Ukraine's current battle front is kinda sad. First of all, like it or not, but this is war by proxy. 

Sure, giving them almost the entire fleet of PZH's and selling 100 to them is insane, but as i understand it they pretty much need mainly things that have the range and accuracy to outrange those Russian BTG's and the guns they have also still being portable enough to be able to leave the area from where they fired in a considerable time.

You'd think they would get at least 15 of then, ideally even more.

 

In the end, as advanced as the PZH-2000 is, it would still be nothing that i'd see easely used against NATO in future conflicts if it falls in the wrong hands, unlike anything that is man portable or actually would be considered long range artillery.

I'd rather be afraid of those Javelins falling into the wrong hands.

 

Besides that i hope the situation at Kaliningrad is not gonna escalate things to much, seems quite a dare they did blocking its transports.

[SLON1936]

On 6/8/2022 at 12:34 PM, Aquamaniac said:

So we will see what is left of the active (more or less trained and experienced) Russian army at the end of this war. 

Zero. No one will fight for Poopin for free, this is not 2014 when you could fool everyone. Therefore, these ridiculous attempts to hire at least old farts.

[sivispacem]

11 hours ago, Darth Absentis said:

Said it before, said it again(not sure if here or elsewhere)just a handful of Pzh 2000's for an area as big as Ukraine's current battle front is kinda sad. 

I wouldn't get to hung up on the PzH2000s, Poland has supplied 12 Krabs and will be supplying 60 more. The PzH2000 is a nice to have but there's plenty of other artillery supply coming from elsewhere. 

[Darth Absentis]

5 hours ago, sivispacem said:

I wouldn't get to hung up on the PzH2000s, Poland has supplied 12 Krabs and will be supplying 60 more. The PzH2000 is a nice to have but there's plenty of other artillery supply coming from elsewhere. 

Both compare, true, but you'd expect NATO european countries to go trowing some of their best weapons into Ukraine though, not the USA. It is kinda a sad state of affairs if a country like Poland is doing more in some regards then France, Germany and the Uk combined.

 

Besides that it is fun to criticize USA for spending so much on defence and having no base healthcare, yet still being so happy to see them whenever Europe is becoming a war front.

It is almost like being trampled in 2 world wars did not learn us spending money on military can be useful, instead it is often seen as barbaric somehow. 

Really not pulling your leg or something, but what happened with the old idea of Si vis pacem para bellum ? 

Or maybe that is just my idea after looking how funny Belgian defence tends to go and elsewhere in Europe they do a better job ?

[Plage]

We don't have enough equipment ourself. Thanks to the miserable political leadership in the last 30 years who only thought about the "peace dividend" and transformed the Bundeswehr into an "out off area" military with not much for actual territory defence left over. Germany and the Netherlands are planning to deliver 12 PzH 2000 in total (7+5). From what I know we only have about 108 of these howitzers. This is not enough to even reach the envisioned numbers for ourself in the future force setup. The 7 pieces we're going to deliver already make out about 6,5% of our complete stock.

Additionally how easy do you think it'd be to train let's say 50 crews for the PzH? The capacities for something like that don't exist and it's generally much more easy to supply the Ukrainians with equipment they already know to operate. That's why we're having all these "ring-exchanges" replacing Russian equipment in Western/NATO militaries with Western equipment in exchange for what goes to the Ukraine.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Plage

[Darth Absentis]

To be fair i do get why we are not having the military equipment as back during the cold war, since it does cost money to maintain those things, but indeed the military budget seems quite mediocre. You'd at least expect joint ventures in the EU to still try and be top dog on military equipment and standardize certain things more.

Certain base platforms to have howitzers and AA put on them would be nice, along with more aircraft carriers and destroyers.