The different universe stuff is stupid IMO

[J LaFleur]

Just IMO. I know it's real but I think they shoulda just kept the characters and stories from the PS2 games and just changed the cities. Didn't have to wipe all those characters from existence IMO.

 

Kinda hope GTA 6 has its own universe where everything from the other ones happened and all the characters exist.

Edited February 13 by J LaFleur

[Americana]

I give absolutely zero f*cks about characters from 3D Grand Theft Auto games.

[Badman_]

19 minutes ago, Americana said:

I give absolutely zero f*cks about characters from 3D Grand Theft Auto games.

 

I have to agree with you on this one. It happened, it was good, but it doesn't have to keep going forever. Detachment is important sometimes.

[GhettoJesus]

The problem with changing cities is how to explain the changes? Los Santos and Liberty City look remarkably different in the two different universes. You can't just say "oh we moved this airport to a completely different island now"

[MrBreak16]

7 hours ago, GhettoJesus said:

The problem with changing cities is how to explain the changes? Los Santos and Liberty City look remarkably different in the two different universes. You can't just say "oh we moved this airport to a completely different island now"

That's why it blows my mind when I see people trying to argue that all games take place in the same universe. Like how can you explain the completely different geography and history of these cities in the different games? Saying that GTA SA Los Santos and GTA V Los Santos are the same just because "Grove Street is in GTA V" is dumb as f*ck

[potramen]

gta6 will be set in a completely new universe bc its a reboot

[The Notorious MOB]

I wish they would just give us a definitive explanation and tell us who actually exists across universes and in what form. Radio stations and brands obviously cross over but locations and characters are still really in that grey area. More so now than they've ever been in fact. Plus we've now got Online adding more Red Dead stuff into the mix. Like what exactly are simple Easter Eggs and what are the actual commonalities and crossovers? 

 

Right now it's like a layers thing where RDR is the most "real" in many ways, yet they juxtapose real life locations with in game locales which are more of a mash up than anything GTA has ever really done. Then we have the HD universe in which everything is fictionalised but they still make references to real life locations quite a bit. 

 

I'm actually not aware of any other series that does this stuff. Everything sort of has that through line even across remakes and generations. The only other thing that really comes to mind is Mafia where II and DE kind of retcon some of the vehicles. Even with things like movies - the actors and characterisations may be different but they all still take place in the same Gotham City etc.

Edited February 20 by The Notorious MOB

[The Artist]

13 hours ago, J LaFleur said:

Just IMO. I know it's real but I think they shoulda just kept the characters and stories from the PS2 games and just changed the cities. Didn't have to wipe all those characters from existence IMO.

 

Kinda hope GTA 6 has its own universe where everything from the other ones happened and all the characters exist.

They could have had the ps2 characters appear once in a while. Shame we'll never see them again  . Rockstar wanted a fresh start with IV. The graffiti in the apartment shows they were serious about that.

[GhettoJesus]

1 hour ago, The Notorious MOB said:

I wish they would just give us a definitive explanation and tell us who actually exists across universes and in what form. Radio stations and brands obviously cross over but locations and characters are still really in that grey area. More so now than they've ever been in fact. Plus we've now got Online adding more Red Dead stuff into the mix. Like what exactly are simple Easter Eggs and what are the actual commonalities and crossovers? 

People are allowed to exist in different universes but only if they do not physically appear in the game. Lazlow is a great example. He cannot appear in the next universe, but he could appear in the HD universe as he never appeared physically in the 3D universe. The problem though, as you said, it's kind of a grey area. A Love Fist member appears in GTA V even though he made an appearance in Vice City. I think even Rockstar can't be arsed to keep these (otherwise simple) rules so they think that if a character is unimportant enough then they can cross universes.

[Tycek]

In GTA V only one member of Love Fist is shown and that is Willy (first from the left on the Love Fist poster). He was the only one member of the band that wasn't physically present in Vice City. Jezz Torrent was at Cortez's party and Dick and Percy were in the recording studio, but Willy was nowhere to be seen, thus R* didn't make a mistake there. 

[Claude4Catalina]

it starts to create such a headache sometimes that I just consider the entirety of the series from VCS backwards to be scrubbed and any reference to similar events ('92 being heavy for gang violence in LS, Lazlow's background, anything really) to be more nods from Rockstar to the community and accepting that in broad strokes, some events from the 3D Era could've happened in the HD Era if it suits Rockstar.  for example if we see another game set in Vice City and Rockstar decide to throw in a mention to Liberty City mobsters having interests down in Vice, or a pair of Dominican brothers once maintaining a criminal empire, then it is more to build a believable backstory with some roots in real life than to say "yup Tommy Vercetti and Lance and Victor Vance exist in the HD Era now".  it would be extremely on the nose but at the same time I feel like that kind of fan service wouldn't exactly be unfeasible.

[Ash_735]

At this point with how much GTAO messes up things they might as well rename GTAO to "GTAO and the Multiverse of Madness" and just go all in and have CJ, old maps, etc, appear.

[H-G]

IMO R* has simply created multiple canons\realities for the franchise that are alternative options to each other and it's up to the fans' choice and interpretation to believe them or not.

 

On a theoretical basis, we could say the 2D universe exists as the true reality of GTA by itself, but the universe appears as a computer game in GTA3, which is set in the 3D universe. And that means the GTA1 and GTA2 gameplay screenshots we see on the PCs at the internet cafe on Staunton Island are of the 2D universe, which ends up existing as video games in the 3D universe.

 

Going with the same logic, in IV (which is set in the HD universe) we can see bits of gameplay footage from SA on the in-game TVs (and maybe on the in-game internet in screenshot form too), which are supposed to be movies and TV shows of some sort. Not to mention the infamous Fruntalot billboard in the game depicts a model that looks a lot like CJ. This means the 3D universe exists as movies\TV shows in the HD universe, the 2D universe exists as video games in the 3D universe and the HD universe exists as video games in our real life.

 

It's all up to how a fan sees and believes the universes, I can just simply say the 3D-era universe is canon and the 2D and HD ones never even existed to begin with. The events of VCS, VC, The Introduction movie, SA, LCS, Advance, GTA3, Manhunt and Manhunt 2 are what goes truly canon in here, and that's IMHO.

Edited February 15 by H-G

[billiejoearmstrong8]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:54 PM, Americana said:

I give absolutely zero f*cks about characters from 3D Grand Theft Auto games.

 

Agreed.

 

Also them making another universe with new characters doesn't mean the old ones don't exist. They still exist in their universes. Hell, different universes doesn't even mean everything in them has to be separate. Many things exist in both GTA universes, including some events and characters. Both universes exist equally alongside each other and in some ways as part of each other.

 

I think getting hung up on the idea that everything has to strictly be seen as either totally the same universe or totally separate is stupid. That's not what it's about. Them creating a new universe, giving themselves a fresh start with more room to be creative in their writing instead of being bogged down and limited by years worth of existing story and character continuity, isn't stupid. It just allows for more artistic freedom and growth and keeps the games fresh.

Edited February 15 by billiejoearmstrong8

[H-G]

9 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

Agreed.

 

Also them making another universe with new characters doesn't mean the old ones don't exist. They still exist in their universes. Hell, different universes doesn't even mean everything in them has to be separate. Many things exist in both GTA universes, including some events and characters. Both universes exist equally alongside each other and in some ways as part of each other.

 

I think getting hung up on the idea that everything has to strictly be seen as either totally the same universe or totally separate is stupid. That's not what it's about. Them creating a new universe, giving themselves a fresh start with more room to be creative in their writing instead of being bogged down and limited by years worth of existing story and character continuity, isn't stupid. It just allows for more artistic freedom and growth and keeps the games fresh.

Exactly, the best part of the 3D universe was that it was a one and done piece of it's own kind. Rebooting the franchise with GTA3 and a brand-new 3D universe was great, but carrying that canon on for decades and constantly building onto like crazy would've turned it into what GTAO is today, a literal f*ckfest. Just see how f*cked up it's timeline is; aliens, flying bikes that can fire rockets, futuristic Fortnite-level crap... Hell, it's so bad it might as well warrant it's own GTAO universe!

 

I think it was kinda best for the past universes to cease developing onto their canon, otherwise R* certainly would've f*cked them up by now in their attempt to please the younger audience if they were still being continued.

 

Not to mention, the discontinuation of previous universes helped them write a more diverse and down-to-earth storyline like IV's on a clean slate without any conflicts with and from the previous universes.

[J LaFleur]

8 hours ago, H-G said:

IMO R* has simply created multiple canons\realities for the franchise that are alternative options to each other and it's up to the fans' choice and interpretation to believe them or not.

 

On a theoretical basis, we could say the 2D universe exists as the true reality of GTA by itself, but the universe appears as a computer game in GTA3, which is set in the 3D universe. And that means the GTA1 and GTA2 gameplay screenshots we see on the PCs at the internet cafe on Staunton Island are of the 2D universe, which ends up existing as video games in the 3D universe.

 

Going with the same logic, in IV (which is set in the HD universe) we can see bits of gameplay footage from SA on the in-game TVs (and maybe on the in-game internet in screenshot form too), which are supposed to be movies and TV shows of some sort. Not to mention the infamous Fruntalot billboard in the game depicts a model that looks a lot like CJ. This means the 3D universe exists as movies\TV shows in the HD universe, the 2D universe exists as video games in the 3D universe and the HD universe exists as video games in our real life.

 

It's all up to how a fan sees and believes the universes, I can just simply say the 3D-era universe is canon and the 2D and HD ones never even existed to begin with. The events of VCS, VC, The Introduction movie, SA, LCS, Advance, GTA3, Manhunt and Manhunt 2 are what goes truly canon in here, and that's IMHO.

I like the idea, the Billboard could be the actor who played CJ lol. 2D games can also be games in the HD U. The Red Dead book in GTA 5 could mean it's a book series too. 

Edited February 15 by J LaFleur

[D9fred95]

I'm pretty sure the whole "multiple universes" thing was just from the fact Rockstar wanted to remake the cities of the 3D era without having to explain how the entire infrastructure and geography of a city can change in less than ten years. As good as Liberty City in GTA 3 was, it wasn't a proper recreation of New York which was what Rockstar was going for when they decided on GTA IV's design.

[H-G]

22 hours ago, J LaFleur said:

I like the idea, the Billboard could be the actor who played CJ lol. 2D games can also be games in the HD U. The Red Dead book in GTA 5 could mean it's a book series too. 

2D universe can't be video games in the HD universe because the difference between their visual quality is as just as huge as the distance between the ground and the sky, I'd say the 3D universe exists as games too (and not just movies\TV shows) because they're much closer in terms of visual quality, or in 3D at the very least.

 

And yeah, RDR storylines fit well as books\fictional literature in the HD universe.

Edited February 16 by H-G

[Lock n' Stock]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:42 PM, H-G said:

Exactly, the best part of the 3D universe was that it was a one and done piece of it's own kind. Rebooting the franchise with GTA3 and a brand-new 3D universe was great, but carrying that canon on for decades and constantly building onto like crazy would've turned it into what GTAO is today, a literal f*ckfest. Just see how f*cked up it's timeline is; aliens, flying bikes that can fire rockets, futuristic Fortnite-level crap... Hell, it's so bad it might as well warrant it's own GTAO universe!

It makes me sick that GTAO is meant to be the same universe as GTA IV. I don't even consider that garbage canon.

[H-G]

1 hour ago, Lock n' Stock said:

It makes me sick that GTAO is meant to be the same universe as GTA IV. I don't even consider that garbage canon.

Yeah, that crap is better off as either non-canon or in it's own GTAO universe.

[The Notorious MOB]

2 hours ago, H-G said:

Yeah, that crap is better off as either non-canon or in it's own GTAO universe.

I wonder will the next game set in that universe have any single player content. What do you guys think? 

[H-G]

1 minute ago, The Notorious MOB said:

I wonder will the next game set in that universe have any single player content. What do you guys think? 

I'll start trolling both the dumbass puppets at R* and that prick Strauss Zelnick if that happened. I swear.

Edited February 17 by H-G

[ManuelOmega14]

I agree with that

[AmigaMix]

Schrödinger's canon: Each GTA's events were drug induced hallucinations, while being historical accounts at the same time.

[HOW'S ANNIE?]

My personal head-canon is that events and versions of characters from the 3D universe exist in the HD Universe. Franklin's dialogue in GTA V sort of support this.

 

For example: In the HD universe there was a member of the Grove Street Families (who may or may not have been named CJ) who conquered all of South LS in the early 90's, only to later abandoned it all for the "Vinewood Life" as Mad Dogs manager.

Or that in 2001 there was a silent and crazed west-coast criminal looking for blood after his girlfriend betrayed him.

 

Not only that, but another good example is the existence of Avery Duggan, who intentionally invokes parallels to Avery Carrington.

 

I'm sure if GTA VI is set in Vice City, we'll have an 80s drug lord living out his twilight years who strikingly reminds us of Tommy Vercetti, and he'll be our HD Universe Tommy.

[J LaFleur]

12 hours ago, HOW'S ANNIE? said:

My personal head-canon is that events and versions of characters from the 3D universe exist in the HD Universe. Franklin's dialogue in GTA V sort of support this.

 

For example: In the HD universe there was a member of the Grove Street Families (who may or may not have been named CJ) who conquered all of South LS in the early 90's, only to later abandoned it all for the "Vinewood Life" as Mad Dogs manager.

Or that in 2001 there was a silent and crazed west-coast criminal looking for blood after his girlfriend betrayed him.

 

Not only that, but another good example is the existence of Avery Duggan, who intentionally invokes parallels to Avery Carrington.

 

I'm sure if GTA VI is set in Vice City, we'll have an 80s drug lord living out his twilight years who strikingly reminds us of Tommy Vercetti, and he'll be our HD Universe Tommy.

Who are the Leones? Maybe the Ancelottis lol.

[Badman_]

On 2/17/2022 at 11:06 AM, Lock n' Stock said:

It makes me sick that GTAO is meant to be the same universe as GTA IV. I don't even consider that garbage canon.

 

The remaster of The Trilogy plus the recent Online DLC where Franklin makes a very clear reference to GTA SA makes me think R* is planning to mix everything the same way Marvel did with Spider-Man in No Way Home. The next GTA Online is going to include Claude, Tommy, CJ, Niko, jetpacks, flying cars, space rockets, aliens... The GTA multiverse guys. Hooray!

Edited February 19 by Wolfman_

[Jeansowaty]

10 hours ago, J LaFleur said:

Who are the Leones? Maybe the Ancelottis lol.

I'd say they could be the Lupisellas, as both of them start with L and both don't appear to be big players anymore.

[Zello]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:20 PM, J LaFleur said:

I like the idea, the Billboard could be the actor who played CJ lol. 2D games can also be games in the HD U. The Red Dead book in GTA 5 could mean it's a book series too. 

That's one of my theories. I like to think that the 3D universe exists as movies in the HD universe and all the protagonists were played by famous actors in the HD universe. They missed a huge opportunity in V to really make Vinewood and Vinewood stars Vice city in the HD universe could have been this big huge influential 80's movie that people remember. Tommy Vercetti could have been this huge influential fictional figure where people have posters of him on their wall and he's mentioned in rap lyrics like Tony Montana is. They could have gone with the Vinewood stuff and had created a character who was the actor who played Tommy Vercetti and is now broke since his recent films have been flops, has had trouble getting work, and has developed a bad drug addiction. Michael knows this and is able to hire him cheap to star in Meltdown and uses the movie studio to help him make his comeback with Meltdown going on to win the GTA version of an Oscar. Would have made the movie studio missions in V a bit better.

 

Also going with the movie stuff they said that in V Michael was a big Vinewood movie buff and I remember reading articles that said that the heists would be inspired by the movies he watched but that never happened. Would have been cool if he took out one of his old VHS tapes of classic Vinewood movies and watches the Caligula's casino heist from SA and gets inspired to rob the casino.

 

Imagine turning on the in Game TV and you see Claude's actor on a late night talk show giving an interview

Edited February 19 by Zello

[ChiroVette]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:28 PM, J LaFleur said:

Just IMO. I know it's real but I think they shoulda just kept the characters and stories from the PS2 games and just changed the cities. Didn't have to wipe all those characters from existence IMO.

 

 

I absolutely agree. It was one of the things I really hated about GTA IV. I get that a lot of people love the idea of changing universes and sort of rebooting everything. It's certainly a valid storytelling mode. Look at all the Spider-Man iterations, starting with the universe of the comics, then multiverse stuff, then three completely different and rebooted movie franchises. So I can't say that Rockstar was objectively wrong for this. I also think that the paradigm of GTA essentially shifted from the 3D Era to the HD Era, and that because the tech had grown so much between 2001 and 2008/2013, that Rockstar probably felt that the reboot was completely necessary, as even storytelling in videogames had come so incredibly far from the very early PS2/XBox gen to the mid to late PS3/360 gen. The entire storytelling machine underwent such a huge, fundamental evolution forward, so that entire huge staffs were subsequently hired to make stuff that at least marginally simulates Hollywood quality productions in their stories. I think maybe Rockstar felt that the story-lines and characters in the original Trilogy games didn't have enough meat on their bones, and were not fleshed out enough to be transposed to the future gen of consoles and PCs. I think if Dan Houser were on this forum, he might say something like this. They didn't have the budget, the manpower, the juggernaut storytelling team, and the technology to do with the Trilogy story and characters what they could do with IV, V, and now VI in a few years. I bet Mr Houser would probably say that creating a whole new universe would be a better idea and a more rational undertaking. Imagine trying to continue with Trilogy characters and continuing their stories, and trying to get actors like Ray Liotta, Michael Madsen, Burt Reynolds, and all the other myriad if famous talent. They tried it in LCS, with a different actress playing Maria, and even though I loved the game, that was a real buzz kill for me every time she had a speaking part in the game. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the whole new universe thing may have been the most logical course.  

 

But I won't lie. I did become emotionally invested in the 3D characters, much, much more than the ones in either IV or V. If I were king of the world, or I ran Rockstar games, I would have NOT rebooted. I would have found a way to continue the universe we already had, and just fattened up the backstories and fleshed out the story a lot more of characters like CJ, Tommy, Fido, Maria, Catalina, Ray, 8-Ball, Joey, Luigi, Tony, Kent, and on and on and on. But that's me. Because forget about Niko, Michael, Trevor, and all them for a second. They are all fine videogame characters in their own right; but, I would kill to have been able to usher the 3D Era characters into the HD Era, by whatever means necessary.