GTA VI B*tch & Moan Thread

[Donald Lov]

You know, the more I use the internet these days, the more it seems to me that the dead internet conspiracy theory is true It's always the same, bland ideas and views that are expressed today from seemingly everybody. It's almost as if a Western man has lost the capacity(and the desire) to think for himself. The whole deal going on here, with both the attack and the defense, I think I've seen dozens of times played out before, but each time in a different context

[Jason]

1 minute ago, GrandTheftAutoVI said:

your talking about things that have changed over decades yet VI will be more censored than any other GTA before it. 

 

Source on VI being more censored than any other GTA before it?

 

R* supposedly not punching down is not anywhere near enough evidence of that to make that claim. If they suddenly stop satirising the goverments, the corporations, the celebrities, US gun laws, US healthcare, general US culture and a billion more things then I'll agree with you.

 

4 minutes ago, GrandTheftAutoVI said:

why can't you accept humor and satire is subjective?

 

Humour and satire is subjectively funny, but "humour" and "satire" still have a definition.

 

Satire has a point to the ridicule and humour, for lack of a better way of putting it, has a punchline. In years gone by we'd punch down at minorities and ridicule them for what they are in a "oh aren't they so weird/unusual/embarrassing/pathetic?" kind of way, it was people laughing at other peoples misery more than it was humour. This used to be accepted but over the decades became less and less.

1 minute ago, Donald Lov said:

 It's almost as if a Western man has lost the capacity(and the desire) to think for himself. 

 

Which, ironically, is something almost ways said by people who do nothing but parrot what they've been told.

[GrandTheftAutoVI]

Just now, Jason said:

 

Source on VI being more censored than any other GTA before it?

 

R* supposedly not punching down is not anywhere near enough evidence of that to make that claim. If they suddenly stop satirising the goverments, the corporations, the celebrities, US gun laws, US healthcare, general US culture and a billion more things then I'll agree with you.

 

 

Humour and satire is subjectively funny, but "humour" and "satire" still have a definition.

 

Satire has a point to the ridicule and humour, for lack of a better way of putting it, has a punchline. In years gone by we'd punch down at minorities and ridicule them for what they are in a "oh aren't they so weird/unusual/embarrassing/pathetic?" kind of way, it was people laughing at other peoples misery more than it was humour. This used to be accepted but over the decades became less and less.

 

That is still your opinion and not fact.

 

Would a brand like GTA launch today? No chance.

 

...and that is the point isn't it?

 

 

 

[Jason]

7 minutes ago, GrandTheftAutoVI said:

Would a brand like GTA launch today? No chance.

 

Well I mean that's your opinion, and not fact, but given that we're here talking about the upcoming sixth mainline installment in said franchise I think the actual answer is "yes, it would".

 

I mean Cyberpunk 2077 came out in 2020 and got criticism for how it portrayed various modern topics, and honestly dealt with certain themes in far more detail than GTA ever has, especially things like sex and nudity. There was also a side story where you bloody crucified someone lol.

[suicidehummer]

Man, some people revolve their whole personality around thinking being offensive is a virtue. And then turn around and call anyone who disagrees with them a "virtue signaler"...

 

"I'm not so easily offended like you snowflakes. Nothing offends me. "

 

"DID YOU JUST CRITICIZE A COMEDIAN?!?!?! "

[suicidehummer]

13 hours ago, Jason said:

Which, ironically, is something almost ways said by people who do nothing but parrot what they've been told.

 

Wake up, sheeple! Rupert Murdoch told me not to trust the mainstream media that he doesn't own!

[A Good Man]

On 8/1/2022 at 1:42 AM, Komosexual said:

A lot of people are really hung up on the "woke" or "culturally sensitive" comments, when in reality, Rockstar has always been pretty "woke" and "culturally sensitive."

I'd have to say I disagree with this statement. The way I see it, they are were quite centrist, sometimes mocking liberals more than conservatives with the radio, internet and TV shows. Besides, the comedy shows in GTA IV are some of the most politically incorrect things I've ever seen on a video game, poking fun at overweight and trans people. 

Spoiler

Anyways, I do hope Rockstar has become ''woke'' and culturally sensitive because they weren't really that much if you ask me.

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/woke-gta-6-can-still-be-great

 

Edited August 3 by A Good Man

[DarkDayz]

20 hours ago, GrandTheftAutoVI said:

do you agree? if so why. why can't you accept humor and satire is subjective?

 

Humour and satire is subjective.

 

Subjectiveness is your own personal opinion on something outside of facts.

 

Do you know something else about it? You are not the only one with a subjective opinion on something. Other people have their own opinions, other people are also writing the game, not you. So, deal with it?

 

You can argue that a comedian is entitled to say an offensive joke if you found it funny. You cannot argue that a comedian is wrong or bad for not using an offensive joke. It is completely and utterly nonsensical.

 

Edited August 3 by DarkDayz

[GrandTheftAutoVI]

1 hour ago, DarkDayz said:

 

Humour and satire is subjective.

 

Subjectiveness is your own personal opinion on something outside of facts.

 

Do you know something else about it? You are not the only one with a subjective opinion on something. Other people have their own opinions, other people are also writing the game, not you. So, deal with it?

 

You can argue that a comedian is entitled to say an offensive joke if you found it funny. You cannot argue that a comedian is wrong or bad for not using an offensive joke. It is completely and utterly nonsensical.

 

 

when others have a different opinion than me i chose to debate or simply move on.

 

thanks for arguing my point for me though

[Thomas Cavendish]

Imagine a massive masterpiece like RDR2, and people complaining it doesn't make jokes about gays.
Basically if gta does not please you, it has been censored.

[Jakub1904]

2 hours ago, Thomas Cavendish said:

Imagine a massive masterpiece like RDR2, and people complaining it doesn't make jokes about gays.
Basically if gta does not please you, it has been censored.

In regard to jokes/satire, what is the point of comparing a serious game with almost no satire like RDR2 to a game like GTA, which basically is a satire of the US? I'm also not sure that you understand what censorship means, so here you go.

[Unspoken OH]

The game hasn't even been officially announced and we moaning already? God I love this community. Well I just hope the game will be at least as good as RDR2 then I'll be satisfied.

[Thomas Cavendish]

3 hours ago, Jakub1904 said:

In regard to jokes/satire, what is the point of comparing a serious game with almost no satire like RDR2 to a game like GTA, which basically is a satire of the US? I'm also not sure that you understand what censorship means, so here you go.

If YOU decide not to express, it is not censorship. it is just YOUR decision.
Censorship is when someone else does not allow you to express something.

it is clear in the definition you just have posted.

[suicidehummer]

10 hours ago, DarkDayz said:

 

Humour and satire is subjective.

 

Subjectiveness is your own personal opinion on something outside of facts.

 

Do you know something else about it? You are not the only one with a subjective opinion on something. Other people have their own opinions, other people are also writing the game, not you. So, deal with it?

 

You can argue that a comedian is entitled to say an offensive joke if you found it funny. You cannot argue that a comedian is wrong or bad for not using an offensive joke. It is completely and utterly nonsensical.

 

 

I think it's clear from that person's posts that they are literally impervious to reason or any amount of nuance whatsoever.

 

They're one of the people who loves being offended at other people being offended.

Edited August 3 by suicidehummer

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Unspoken OH said:

The game hasn't even been officially announced and we moaning already? God I love this community. Well I just hope the game will be at least as good as RDR2 then I'll be satisfied.

 

What else are people going to do with their valuable free time if not spending it moaning about something that currently has no impact on their life?

[Jakub1904]

8 hours ago, Thomas Cavendish said:

If YOU decide not to express, it is not censorship. it is just YOUR decision.
Censorship is when someone else does not allow you to express something.

it is clear in the definition you just have posted.

Yeah, that's right. How is it relevant in this case, though? Do you think Rockstar's writers can just decide on their own what can or cannot be included in the game without consulting anyone higher up?

[Paper Mario]

50 minutes ago, Jakub1904 said:

Yeah, that's right. How is it relevant in this case, though? Do you think Rockstar's writers can just decide on their own what can or cannot be included in the game without consulting anyone higher up?

nah bro, they always call me first, and if i don't think a particular joke is funny, imma make em scrap dat sh*t. i got high standards and they know dis

[Superdays]

1 hour ago, Paper Mario said:

nah bro, they always call me first, and if i don't think a particular joke is funny, imma make em scrap dat sh*t. i got high standards and they know dis

LIES, THEY CONTACT ME AND ME ONLY FOR HUMOR

 

PROOF: IDK

[GrandTheftAutoVI]

On 8/3/2022 at 10:44 PM, Unspoken OH said:

The game hasn't even been officially announced and we moaning already? God I love this community. Well I just hope the game will be at least as good as RDR2 then I'll be satisfied.

 

It will far eclipse that game or any other released so far

 

Spoiler

on a technical level sure. best open world yet? probably.

 

[Ondr4H]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:42 AM, Komosexual said:

A lot of people are really hung up on the "woke" or "culturally sensitive" comments, when in reality, Rockstar has always been pretty "woke" and "culturally sensitive."

 

GTA as a series has consistently provided social commentary by parodying and adressing:
 

• the glaringly obvious wealth-disparity issues in the US (as well as the flaws of a hyper-capitalist society)
   
• the ease of access to firearms (AmmuNation in and of itself is a parody / commentary of the US' gun-obsession)
   
• racism and homophobia (TBoGT, anyone?)
   
• the US' lack of accessible and affordable healthcare.
   
• sexism (i.e, characters who beat, degrade or act like total slobs around women are often villains)
   
• the over-militarization and over-steppings of authority by police.
   
• the rampancy of religious fanaticism in the US.
   
• the war on drugs.
   

Putting on display and laughing at the US' blatant societal problems and injustices has literally been a core theme of the franchise since the beginning.

 

Despite what some may think, Grand Theft Auto is not an 'edgy' franchise. They provide quite well thought-out social commentary on relevant issues, with a left-leaning bias, and always have. The extent of this 'wokeness' will likely just be commentary by the female protagonist on her struggles with being respected in a male-dominated criminal underworld, which is entirely valid and realistic. That, and less "transvestite" jokes.

 

I understand a lot of people here are relatively young and may not remember the controversy on this very forum when San Andreas was announced, all because it starred a black protagonist. Yet, despite all the doom and gloom posting about the series "losing its way," San Andreas became arguably the most fondly remembered and loved entry in the franchise. The whining and moaning I'm seeing today is very reminiscent of that.

 

So like, I dunno. Maybe chill out, or something.

We are not scared of this. We actually love this and this series is no scared of making fun of any group very obvious.

 

 

We are scared that some modern ideologies will be shoehorned in everything very blatantly and some groups made superior over anything made them perfect just by their breathing. Like almost every modern hollywoke movie...

 

For example horendous Take 2  E3 video conference two years ago, when exactly their only care about money from every groups, even these that dont play games.

 

Just give me some jokes about groups that I dislike and also give them jokes about groups Im in it. But if there will be possible jokes only about Christianity and not about L G B T it will bad approach...

 

[Scott Ransom]

The revelation of a Vice City setting has pretty much killed my excitement if I'm honest. 

[Ondr4H]

1 hour ago, Scott Ransom said:

The revelation of a Vice City setting has pretty much killed my excitement if I'm honest. 

Why every weird sh*t happen in Florida, they had superhero "Florida Man" and they are based state.

 

They have their own Sasquatch called Skunk Ape, aligators and pure  A grade colombian my friend. And bridges are constantly closed due to severe weather warnings.

Edited August 16 by Ondr4H

[Mexicola9302]

I just stumbled on this thread by accident, why the hell there is a Bitch & Moan Thread already, for a game that isn't released yet? How does that make any sense?

[GrandTheftAutoVI]

[Spider-Vice]

21 hours ago, Mexicola9302 said:

I just stumbled on this thread by accident, why the hell there is a Bitch & Moan Thread already, for a game that isn't released yet? How does that make any sense?

Because the Internet will always find something to bitch about even when we have zero info about it, might as well contain it and have a thread like the other sections lmao, wasn't a bad idea to make one right on "teaser" day. GTA V had so much random senseless whining in other random topics that someone birthed the original B&M topic not long before its release (though it was days before).

[EliteWaiter69]

My only complaint is the waiting we're doing right now - come on Rockstar!

[Mister Pink]

I'm going to chime in a little bit on humour and satire. Growing up, there was also a healthy dose of satirical comedy on our TV at home. And although very young, I was exposed to some of the best satire at the time. I think this why the humour in GTA clicked with me immediately. 

 

I going to use a specific joke from one Britains best known satirical comedy shows from a legend of comedy and filmmaker of award winning comedy shows and award winning satirical film 'Four Lions' which satirizes bumbling British would-be ISIS-terrorists - Chris Morris. The sketch piece below has actually inspired a GTA reference/easter egg. The reason I post this is there is comedy and the subject of AIDS is controversial. Where I sympathise with those that are afraid GTA's humour is getting curbbed and sanatized is because there is a vocal minority of people rallying against comedy and just being perpetually offended. It's like outrage culture has become a pastime. 

 

Lets look at this piece of satire from the 90's "Good AIDS vs Bad AIDs." I use this as an example because this is the exact type of thing that would be labled "homophobic" or biggoted against the gay community. And I see criticisms like this against comedy bits where all context was removed. The satire in this bit isn't mocking gay men or people with AIDs. It's a satire on knee-jerk, sensationalist, tabloid TV debate shows of Britian in the 90's. More specifically, it's a satire on Day To Day AKA Kilroy who often made quite bigoted and racist remarks.  But today, this joke could easily criticized by the outrage mob for being homophobic, completely missing the point of satire to begin with. Because, in my experience, today's outrage mob conviently remove intent and context. 

 

Written by and starring Chris Morris

 

A lot of the satire in GTA was inspired by Brass Eye, and The Day Today or lets just say Chris Morris. Take Nathan Barley written by Charlie Brooker (Black Mirror) and Chris Morris an example. It's about a "media guru" working for a hipster magazing which satirizes Dazed & Confused and Vice magazine back in midd 00's. This video shows an article "Rise of The Idiots" written by one of the characters which basically could be translated as "Rise of the Hipster." This is back in 2005 when 'hipster' wasn't in the modern lexicon and if you watch the video it really rings true. It's complete satire on those hipster magazines like Vice, now Vice media long ago.  From Wiki: "the series is lauded today for predicting a future of memes, vloggers and hipsters, and the global influence of social media"

 

The point is, that is my view of satire. It's usually a contemporary comedic look at what's in popular and mainstream culture at the time and pokes fun at it by delivering the comedy in an almost real way but it subverts the subject with humour. Trans poeple happend to be in GTA V. I think it's perfectly fine. I have comic friends, have attended many comedy shows and engross myself in the culture through podcasts and live shows. I don't think there is punching up or punching down. It's nonsense. There are just jokes. There are no protected classes. And the sooner one can accept their group or their identity can be joked about, the sooner they can be accepted, IMO. The removal of the confederate flag was ridiculous. That was some kind of developer not being able to remain objective and leave it there for the humour. Obviously guys like Phil Cassidy exist. He's the gun-mad southern type. He's a satire of that type of guy. 

 

As a huge fan of pushing boundaries, comedy and free speech, I'm not advocating for less self-censorship because I get some amusement out of a GTA character calling someone "gay." But if the guy calling someone gay is a satire on some kind of homophobe or it's dipiction of the sign of the times, then I think it has artistic merit.  I defend the artistic licence for a homophobic character to exist in a game if the story calls for it. Because it's a reflection of real life. Just playing Mafia II the other day and my associate in the game were shooting some enemies and he called the other guys "faggots." The game isn't promoting homophobia or the word. You and I know that. Whats happening is a game is being realistic and true to the type of mean gangster types of the time. I fight to defend writers being able to write mean and realistic characters.

 

I don't want writers to feel chastised for fear of offending some outrage mob.

 

 

 

 

[Dimitry Rascalov]

GTA 4 was perfect. That's exactly how the next game should be.

[Speeder752]

Imo if R* was going to censor VI as much as some people said they would, they would've removed far more content from V in E&E than two very small things that nobody noticed was removed until news articles were written about it. I swear people here love making up scenarios based on a very vague statement just to get mad about something haha. 

[sabitsuki]

GTA's satire and sexual innuendos were never really all that funny tbh, there's only so many times you can make a 69 or penis joke before someone in the writing department goes postal. my concern is that they'll somehow make them even unfunnier

Edited September 2 by sabitsuki