GTA VI B*tch & Moan Thread

[Tezdefanta]

8 hours ago, Kris194 said:

 

It's interesting, that such thing was first achieved by small dev rather than huge company like for example R*.

 

They've already done that before, I know they were interested in the movies... luckily they got hired employees form Naughty Dog, Rockstar and Insomniac Games to work on their game Hogwarts Legacy, check on Linkedin... game started in 2018!!

[SoldierBoy]

I feel like i’m gonna puke of overdose from GTA Online

 

 

[Rockstarter]

56 minutes ago, Short Dawg said:

I’ve read several times on here that might be the case to avoid crunch which is what people wanted right? There was so-called “outrage” about it before the launch of RDR 2 

 

ok you got me on "crunch" 

 

here we go. 

 

For a Developer, or any other employee for that matter,  i would imagine working for Rockstar Games would be a dream, close to the pinnacle of where you can be. 

 

Top of the game, making legendary games, literally the best out there . 

 

If you're working on a project like Red Dead Redemption 2, and it's getting close to release date, you better bet your arse you're going to be busy. 

 

It should be expected, it should compensated for monetarily at least. 

 

This idea that you can release a massive product and not work extra-hard , or put in overtime hours, right before release, to me is leaning towards unrealistic to put it nicely. 

 

Do you think the engineers at Space X making the Starship rocket are asking if they can work from home 2 days a week because they want to and they want a good work life balance? 

 

Of course there is a limit and employees should not be treated unfairly or poorly but I perhaps doubt that is what was happening at Rockstar during RDR2 development. 

 

Now I know that what Dev's say about that is contrary, but also, as an IT Manager at a Software Company myself, I see Developers having in my opinion unrealistic ideas about what their work life should be. 

 

Today we had a meeting and, amidst already discussed economic upset, and the company battening down the hatches and saying beware the sh*tstorm ahead, all the Dev's wanted to ask for was more money and working from home, less hours in the office. 

 

Sadly I think the industry has and will pander to a weak mindset and mentality of less work and more pay, and I also think it will inevitably delay the release of the next GTA, by at least 6 months. 

 

Perhaps that's all I'd like to say about that for now. 

 

 

Edited February 15 by Rockstarter

[Leonida Man]

16 minutes ago, Rockstarter said:

 

ok you got me on "crunch" 

 

here we go. 

 

For a Developer, or any other employee for that matter,  i would imagine working for Rockstar Games would be a dream, close to the pinnacle of where you can be. 

 

Top of the game, making legendary games, literally the best out there . 

 

If you're working on a project like Red Dead Redemption 2, and it's getting close to release date, you better bet your arse you're going to be busy. 

 

It should be expected, it should compensated for monetarily at least. 

 

This idea that you can release a massive product and not work extra-hard , or put in overtime hours, right before release, to me is leaning towards unrealistic to put it nicely. 

 

Do you think the engineers at Space X making the Starship rocket are asking if they can work from home 2 days a week because they want to and they want a good work life balance? 

 

Of course there is a limit and employees should not be treated unfairly or poorly but I perhaps doubt that is what was happening at Rockstar during RDR2 development. 

 

Now I know that what Dev's say about that is contrary, but also, as an IT Manager at a Software Company myself, I see Developers having in my opinion unrealistic ideas about what their work life should be. 

 

Today we had a meeting and, amidst already discussed economic upset, and the company battening down the hatches and saying beware the sh*tstorm ahead, all the Dev's wanted to ask for was more money and working from home, less hours in the office. 

 

Sadly I think the industry has and will pander to a weak mindset and mentality of less work and more pay, and I also think it will inevitably delay the release of the next GTA, by at least 6 months. 

 

Perhaps that's all I'd like to say about that for now. 

 

 

 Are you mad????
They were working 100+ hours weeks! This was said by Dan Houser as something good. People had to stay at the office at night and had their personal and family lives wrecked by the schedule. If they didn't do this (by passive-aggresive coercion) Rockstar wouldn't credit them in the game. Weak mindset???

You have to be trolling to say all that stupid sh*t
 

[Rockstarter]

2 minutes ago, Leonida Man said:

 Are you mad????
They were working 100+ hours weeks! This was said by Dan Houser as something good. People had to stay at the office at night and had their personal and family lives wrecked by the schedule. If they didn't do this (by passive-aggresive coercion) Rockstar wouldn't credit them in the game. Weak mindset???

You have to be trolling to say all that stupid sh*t
 

 

nobody is trolling and I take umbrage at you describing my opinion as "stupid sh*t" 

 

they had their personal and family lives wrecked? 

 

that's a very extreme and dramatic take. 

 

I really don't want to go on about this, im just saying that "crunch" , within reason, should be expected when you work for a company like Rockstar Games making such worldwide renowned, and profitable, products. 

[BTubbs200]

31 minutes ago, Rockstarter said:

ok you got me on "crunch" 

 

here we go. 

 

For a Developer, or any other employee for that matter,  i would imagine working for Rockstar Games would be a dream, close to the pinnacle of where you can be. 

 

Top of the game, making legendary games, literally the best out there . 

 

If you're working on a project like Red Dead Redemption 2, and it's getting close to release date, you better bet your arse you're going to be busy. 

 

It should be expected, it should compensated for monetarily at least. 

 

This idea that you can release a massive product and not work extra-hard , or put in overtime hours, right before release, to me is leaning towards unrealistic to put it nicely. 

 

Do you think the engineers at Space X making the Starship rocket are asking if they can work from home 2 days a week because they want to and they want a good work life balance? 

 

Of course there is a limit and employees should not be treated unfairly or poorly but I perhaps doubt that is what was happening at Rockstar during RDR2 development. 

 

Now I know that what Dev's say about that is contrary, but also, as an IT Manager at a Software Company myself, I see Developers having in my opinion unrealistic ideas about what their work life should be. 

 

Today we had a meeting and, amidst already discussed economic upset, and the company battening down the hatches and saying beware the sh*tstorm ahead, all the Dev's wanted to ask for was more money and working from home, less hours in the office. 

 

Sadly I think the industry has and will pander to a weak mindset and mentality of less work and more pay, and I also think it will inevitably delay the release of the next GTA, by at least 6 months. 

 

Perhaps that's all I'd like to say about that for now. 

Outside of violating the law, companies have the freedom to establish the culture they see fit to get their vision accomplished. The reality of the situation is that being an employee is voluntary, and everybody has the chance to observe the culture of their workplace before accepting the position. There are some businesses that simply believe in getting sh*t done and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that if there’s a mutual agreement between all employees. IMO

Edited February 15 by BTubbs200

[Leonida Man]

5 minutes ago, Rockstarter said:

 

nobody is trolling and I take umbrage at you describing my opinion as "stupid sh*t" 

 

they had their personal and family lives wrecked? 

 

that's a very extreme and dramatic take. 

 

I really don't want to go on about this, im just saying that "crunch" , within reason, should be expected when you work for a company like Rockstar Games making such worldwide renowned, and profitable, products. 

I get that you're the guy that gets paid double to tell other guys to work double

This was documented by journalism, I don't have to prove it to you. 

 

your opinion was stupid, dude

Edited February 15 by Leonida Man

[Rockstarter]

43 minutes ago, Leonida Man said:

I get that you're the guy that gets paid double to tell other guys to work double

This was documented by journalism, I don't have to prove it to you. 

 

your opinion was stupid, dude

you are entitled to yours

[TracksuitTommy]

1 hour ago, Rockstarter said:

 

ok you got me on "crunch" 

 

here we go. 

 

For a Developer, or any other employee for that matter,  i would imagine working for Rockstar Games would be a dream, close to the pinnacle of where you can be. 

 

Top of the game, making legendary games, literally the best out there . 

 

If you're working on a project like Red Dead Redemption 2, and it's getting close to release date, you better bet your arse you're going to be busy. 

 

It should be expected, it should compensated for monetarily at least. 

 

This idea that you can release a massive product and not work extra-hard , or put in overtime hours, right before release, to me is leaning towards unrealistic to put it nicely. 

 

Do you think the engineers at Space X making the Starship rocket are asking if they can work from home 2 days a week because they want to and they want a good work life balance? 

 

Of course there is a limit and employees should not be treated unfairly or poorly but I perhaps doubt that is what was happening at Rockstar during RDR2 development. 

 

Now I know that what Dev's say about that is contrary, but also, as an IT Manager at a Software Company myself, I see Developers having in my opinion unrealistic ideas about what their work life should be. 

 

Today we had a meeting and, amidst already discussed economic upset, and the company battening down the hatches and saying beware the sh*tstorm ahead, all the Dev's wanted to ask for was more money and working from home, less hours in the office. 

 

Sadly I think the industry has and will pander to a weak mindset and mentality of less work and more pay, and I also think it will inevitably delay the release of the next GTA, by at least 6 months. 

 

Perhaps that's all I'd like to say about that for now. 

 

 

Rockstarter, I honestly think this is the most realistic and grounded take I've seen on this thread. Props to you for pointing it out. Working at a software company myself, I definitely see people wanting more money to work less and avoid hard work when there's big projects coming up. People can disagree with my opinion but I think people throw their logic out the window when it comes to things like big projects and deadlines and get too emotional.

Hard work and big pushes to create great and record breaking projects has always been rewarded and acknowledged. Mediocrity and minimum effort rarely get recognised. I'm not saying that people who want to live an average life aren't achieving and doing great things, just pointing out that the 'cutting out crunch' agenda shouldn't be blanketed across all developers.

It should be a choice. If certain ambitious and hardworking individuals want to push the boundaries and deliver an industry breaking game, let them work 100+ hours. Good on them.

Great things require great effort. - Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Edited February 15 by TracksuitTommy
Formatting

[Leonida Man]

 @Rockstarter

Rockstar's opinion seems to be a mixture of your opinion and mine, to be honest.

They crunched their employees until they damaged both their personal and work lives, and the managers have this "the employee should be thankful of being abused by us" thing like this and opposing to basic accommodations just for control's sake(like how the pandemic proved working from home improved productivity). They outsource work to save money even though they make billions and didn't pay corporate taxes between 2009 and 2018. That's your opinion's side.

They seem to think this two last things are awful sh*t since Michael, Trevor and Franklin accuse Devin Weston of being what's wrong with America for doing that just before they kill him. When the crunch thing got exposed they backpedaled and bettered work conditions, so they also seem to think it was bad sh*t. This is my opinion side.

Also, things documented in press aren't opinion issues, they're facts. People talking about how is natural to overwork yourself to get out a great product are rarely the ones doing the heavy work. 

in before Spider comes to stop this offtopic arguing

Edited February 15 by Leonida Man

[Zapper]

9 minutes ago, TracksuitTommy said:

It should be a choice. If certain ambitious and hardworking individuals want to push the boundaries and deliver an industry breaking game, let them work 100+ hours. Good on them.

 

It never is a choice. If some people in a department are doing it, others are in a way expected to walk down the same road. Most managers might not say that out loud, but people can certainly read between the lines. There is a lot more to it than just some arbitrary choice.

 

6 minutes ago, Leonida Man said:

When the crunch thing got exposed they backpedaled and bettered work conditions,

 

Crunch-related reports are nothing new for R*. Take a look at some of the similar reports about RDR1 or IV's development. Their working conditions were significantly worse back in the 2000s than they were for RDR2. They took steps only after 2018, because I guess they thought they could afford to take their time this time around.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if similar reports came out again close to VI's release.

[Rockstarter]

9 minutes ago, Zapper said:

Their working conditions were significantly worse back in the 2000s than they were for RDR2

 

"working conditions" 

 

let's get some perspective on what a Rockstar Developers working conditions are like on a world scale. I would suggest they are in at least the top 5%. 

Edited February 15 by Rockstarter

[Leonida Man]

24 minutes ago, Rockstarter said:

this is incoherent rubbish and a great example of why the internet is flawed by giving everyone a platform. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Rockstarter said:

 

let's get some perspective on what a Rockstar Developers working conditions are like on a world scale. I would suggest they are in at least the top 5%. 

If you're going to defend this things al least put a little effort, you are reasoning like a toddler
(but make a new topic)

Edited February 15 by Leonida Man
suggestion of taking the offtopic elsewhere kek

[PolandMountain]

1 minute ago, Leonida Man said:

 

If you're going to defend this things al least put a little effort, you are reasoning like a toddler

Prepare for Essay now

[Spider-Vice]

I hope a some of you never manage any teams ever (nevermind there's that one guy here who I hope his team turns on him and quits over him being completely out of touch). Despicable bullsh*t I'm reading here, there is zero, zero justification for crunch of any kind at any studio (or any workplace really). Production on a game needs to accelerate especially post-feature lock, for polishing and whatever, or when going into full prod - but crunch is never a necessity and we seem to have some "hardcore" arm-chair managers over here channeling their inner Elon Musk.

 

Some studios have proven very well that crunch isn't actually necessary - yes it does still happen in places, and sometimes it's the employee themselves who decides to stay later and gets (good) managers to tell them to get the f*ck home, but it's not necessary ever. "Final" development sprints may mean busier days, but not necessarily months of overtime. Things can be delayed to accomodate for that, and gamers will have to cope with delays that are done to help with the project's health AND the employees' health.

 

If you're a manager who thinks remote working affects productivity, only thinks about deliverables being done ASAP, and doesn't give a sh*t about your employees' health whatsoever like that one guy up there, I really hope the people you manage who probably already dislike you get better opportunities. Also, an alleged manager who uses words like "weak mindset", I REALLY hope people start quitting because you really seem to be one of THOSE managers. Is Activision your role model by any chance? /s

Edited February 15 by Spider-Vice

[Jason]

Crunch is a big reason why the video game industry has historically lost loads of talent to other industries. They start in the games industry when they're young cause it's their passion, and then they grow up, start a family, general life stuff, and realise that crunching 5-7 days a week for pay they could easily better elsewhere while working less hours is sh*t, so they quit and leave the industry and live quite literally happily ever after.

 

Lose of experienced talent isn't a good thing for the industry.

 

That's just the tip of the iceberg of why crunch is a horrible practice as well.

 

 

[FamousActor_]

5 hours ago, Rockstarter said:

 

ok you got me on "crunch" 

 

here we go. 

 

For a Developer, or any other employee for that matter,  i would imagine working for Rockstar Games would be a dream, close to the pinnacle of where you can be. 

 

Top of the game, making legendary games, literally the best out there . 

 

If you're working on a project like Red Dead Redemption 2, and it's getting close to release date, you better bet your arse you're going to be busy. 

 

It should be expected, it should compensated for monetarily at least. 

 

This idea that you can release a massive product and not work extra-hard , or put in overtime hours, right before release, to me is leaning towards unrealistic to put it nicely. 

 

Do you think the engineers at Space X making the Starship rocket are asking if they can work from home 2 days a week because they want to and they want a good work life balance? 

 

Of course there is a limit and employees should not be treated unfairly or poorly but I perhaps doubt that is what was happening at Rockstar during RDR2 development. 

 

Now I know that what Dev's say about that is contrary, but also, as an IT Manager at a Software Company myself, I see Developers having in my opinion unrealistic ideas about what their work life should be. 

 

Today we had a meeting and, amidst already discussed economic upset, and the company battening down the hatches and saying beware the sh*tstorm ahead, all the Dev's wanted to ask for was more money and working from home, less hours in the office. 

 

Sadly I think the industry has and will pander to a weak mindset and mentality of less work and more pay, and I also think it will inevitably delay the release of the next GTA, by at least 6 months. 

 

Perhaps that's all I'd like to say about that for now. 

 

 

 

Just making a few observations here.

 

First, most of the times (if not all times) developers aren't properly compensated ($) for their overtime work. Not to mention the legal limit of extra hours that is most likely disrespected. That's why it's called "crunch", and that's why it's an abusive practice.

 

Second, you mentioned Space X. They're not exactly the best example of a healthy employer-employee relationship: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/18/business/spacex-nlrb-employee-complaint-scn/index.html

Edited February 15 by FamousActor_

[Space Cowboy]

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/aonuma-says-staff-comes-first-in-regards-to-nintendo-work-culture/

This is just one studio at Nintendo, and they definitely have some problems as a whole, but this is a good reminder that great games can absolutely be produced without crunch. It's no way a prerequisite for making a great game, just because other developers who also made highly acclaimed titles (Naughty Dog, Rockstar etc.) were/are infamous for it. Crunch is a result of a bad management, and doesn't really produce anything good in the long term.

Also it's really funny that once we hear reports of a better working culture at Rockstar, for some people it means the employees are now slacking off and collecting paycheck without doing anything just because they haven't officially revealed the next GTA yet.

[JohnCGaming]

Edit: Removing the post, the argument is over lol

Edited February 15 by JohnCGaming

[Tommy "Nightmare" Smith]

Onestly I think that most of the people who are pro-crunch have never worked a day in their life. 

 

A person can work in a profitable and sustainable way for a limited amount of time before starting to lose focus and making mistakes. 

If you need your staff to work unbelievable hours every day, for 6 or 7 days a week, it just means there's a need to increase the number of people working in that place. 

[Acetaminophen]

it still hasn't been announced. 

 

trash game

[YNNEL]

They probably going to put the VI trailer behind GTA+ at this point

[Kid Named Finger]

6 minutes ago, jonnhy_xv said:

imagine hidding under cars by crawling like Last of us part 2 

This community is going to be so disappointed when Gta VI turns out to be just GTA V with rdr2's game engine and not the best thing since sliced bread

Edited February 18 by Kid Named Finger

[MaddenedGhost]

1 hour ago, Kid Named Finger said:

This community is going to be so disappointed when Gta VI turns out to be just GTA V with rdr2's game engine and not the best thing since sliced bread

The leaks are clearly suggesting otherwise though but even if it was, I'll take that, that would be very good to me.

[TheCommodore]

1 hour ago, Kid Named Finger said:

This community is going to be so disappointed when Gta VI turns out to be just GTA V with rdr2's game engine and not the best thing since sliced bread

I get that your reply was for people who are the classic case of gamers that don't understand the concept of "Scope creep". But all most people want is another GTA that isn't severely held back by machines with 256 MB of RAM.

 

Having played GTA 4 again I can't help but say something similar to you, GTA 5 just seems like GTA 4 with more cars and more guns. But I don't think GTA 6 is going to be a disappointment if all it's going to be is RDR2 with cars, planes, and automatic weapons. It's a good thing.

 

GTA 5 was built for consoles with less power than smartphones of the time... now GTA has "skipped" an entire generation and will only be held back by machines that are as powerful as the average PC most people have right now, with 60x more memory than what GTA 5 was built with. Of course it's easy to see how people get so hyped they start wishing for mechanics that will cause the game to be finished by 2040.

[safde]

1 hour ago, Kid Named Finger said:

This community is going to be so disappointed when Gta VI turns out to be just GTA V with rdr2's game engine and not the best thing since sliced bread

It might just that, and just slap in ray tracing, better AI, and female protagonist.. But no worries for rockstar, though. Going by how successful GTA Online is and still is growing, the general consumers will eat it up. Similar to the current state of the Main Series Pokémon games

Edited February 18 by safde

[Short Dawg]

3 minutes ago, safde said:

It might just that, and just slap in ray tracing, better AI, and female protagonist.. But no worries for rockstar, though. Going by how successful GTA Online is and still is growing, the general consumers will eat it up. Similar to the current state of the Main Series Pokémon games

You took that bait so effortlessly  

[Kid Named Finger]

30 minutes ago, MaddenedGhost said:

The leaks are clearly suggesting otherwise though but even if it was, I'll take that, that would be very good to me.

The only out of the ordinary things I've seen in the leaks are mentions of GPS jammers, lockpicks and slightly different police AI. 

[Leonida Man]

6 minutes ago, Kid Named Finger said:

The only out of the ordinary things I've seen in the leaks are mentions of GPS jammers, lockpicks and slightly different police AI. 

We've been just talking about crawling! Leaks show the option to rob indivuals when doing a stick up, and people carrying bodies is shown in another. The eagle eye for valuables, all the bag inventory options and animations of grabbing things. It seems they are going to improve on things they implemented in RDR2.

[jonnhy_xv]

The leaks had a lot of stuff GTAV didn't 

for example : Ability to shoot out of the passenger seats with an Assault rifle, shooting while swimming also there was multiple things in the leaks confirming GYM is coming back from S.A and thats just scratching the surface .

Edited February 18 by jonnhy_xv