A Note/Update from Rockstar regarding the Trilogy Definitive Edition

[AIGAMER]

2 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

I'm not about to defend harassing developers. What I am going to do is politely remind everyone that this is a company that has been going around harassing people in the mod community, sending private investigators to their homes, and effectively doxxing them in court documents by revealing their identities. Them getting prissy over harassment is pretty f*cking hypocritical given their actions in recent years.

Absolutely agree with you but apparently within this community it's toxic to voice your opinion especially if it doesn't corelate with praising a game that in my opinion isn't up to par with its counter part original. just politely reminding everybody.  

[ShadowOfThePast]

I'm happy with the response but there is always however. So, first off all, this whole situation wouldn't taken place if they simply could hold their financial pecker in their panties and release it 6 months to 1 year down the line or just fully focus on the GTA 3 first then release the rest when it's ready, simple as that. I'm also very surprised in a negative way that it took them over a week to issue the said note, I guess better late than never, right ?

 

Second off all, I'm all for criticism but going out off one's way to threaten and send vile messages to developers is very disgusting and immature not including the legal side of things. Whatever the outcome of the release was remember that developers had no saying in the final decision on when to release the Trilogy and second of all, developers are overworked as it is and don't need additional stress that can have a negative effects on their mental health and well-being. If you take activity in such behaviour, you are total piece of sh*t and garbage human being, end of story here.

 

The last point I want to make is that at this point in time, I might pick it up but more down the line for like £10 - £15 depending if the Trilogy is properly ironed out and in acceptable state, if not I will just skip it alltogether. On the side note, can someone tell me if there was the same level of outrage when San Andreas remaster have came out on Xbox 360 ? I'm asking because I wasn't around the forum at that time and also I'm curious.

[MindCorrupt]

Unexpected technical issues, right.

 

Because its definitely believable that no one at R* had touched the game before it was green lit for release. Just add flat out lying to your customers in your apology note to the list of disgusting behavior as of late from this outfit. 

 

Its pretty obvious to anyone who has worked at a decently sized company what has likely happened here. People knew the release had issues at R* games and I have no doubt at the very least someone bought it up at some point, but those who had the power to decided that they would take the risk of shoveling sh*t at their loyal customers for 60 quid hoping that they wouldn't throw it back in their faces. And now were here...

 

 

[zanesix]

8 minutes ago, Havi said:

But it seems like everyone is avoiding that statement when I mention it.

Because handpicking one specific part of a community and acting like its everyone isn't really done in good faith, hence why people don't take it seriously. Yes those people are bad, but this is the internet and sh*t like that happens. Assholes will always exist, and that's not restricted to just this community. I believe that the majority of people know how to call out when people and companies do wrong without going overboard with it.

[Carbonox]

6 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

I'm not about to defend harassing developers. What I am going to do is politely remind everyone that this is a company that has been going around harassing people in the mod community, sending private investigators to their homes, and effectively doxxing them in court documents by revealing their identities. Them getting prissy over harassment is pretty f*cking hypocritical given their actions in recent years.

Not gonna lie, there's been a very interesting "rules for thee, but not for Strauss and his army of abusers" policy in place throughout this DMCA saga.

[Havi]

34 minutes ago, Need For Madness Auto said:

 

 

This doesn't mean anything. This screenshot was 4 days after the E&E announcement and it looked like this

 

It went back to 170~177 and now there is today's event and people see red and numbers going down and think it's a huge thing.
 

[Tez2]

Unexpected and a step in the right direction.

 

However, this is gonna be a Cyberpunk 2077 situation. First impressions are really important as always stated by game devs themselves. Rockstar screwed up at that part. Bug fixes alone wouldn't bring back the tons of players who were anticipating this. If Rockstar is aiming to put more resources into fixing this, may as well introduce improvements and quality of life changes.

 

Also, a surprise to see them mention the classic games and bringing them back. This, at least, raises the chances of the likelihood of Rockstar addressing the modding situation. No Mans Sky is an example of a game that had terrible launch, but eventually managed to restore its popularity. But, that took a lot more than fixing bugs. A strong commitment to address community concerns. If Rockstar is planning to proceed into a similar path, addressing the modding community would be one of the needed steps.

[ChiroVette]

14 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

I'm not about to defend harassing developers. What I am going to do is politely remind everyone that this is a company that has been going around harassing people in the mod community, sending private investigators to their homes, and effectively doxxing them in court documents by revealing their identities. Them getting prissy over harassment is pretty f*cking hypocritical given their actions in recent years.

 

This is a great point I hadn't even considered.

[MeatSafeMurderer]

2 minutes ago, Tez2 said:

Unexpected and a step in the right direction.

 

However, this is gonna be a Cyberpunk 2077 situation. First impressions are really important as always stated by game devs themselves. Rockstar screwed up at that part. Bug fixes alone wouldn't bring back the tons of players who were anticipating this. If Rockstar is aiming to put more resources into fixing this, may as well introduce improvements and quality of life changes.

 

Also, a surprise to see them mention the classic games and bringing them back. This, at least, raises the chances of the likelihood of Rockstar addressing the modding situation. No Mans Sky is an example of a game that had terrible launch, but eventually managed to restore its popularity. But, that took a lot more than fixing bugs. A strong commitment to address community concerns. If Rockstar is planning to proceed into a similar path, addressing the modding community would be one of the needed steps.

They won't. I'm probably one of the more staunchly opposed to them and to get me to even consider (i.e, not even a guarantee) financially supporting them again they'd have to drop the re3 lawsuit and un-DMCA all those mods...and that 65% savefile I guess (not that I actually care about the savefile, it's the principle)...and that's just never going to happen.

[ShadowOfThePast]

5 minutes ago, Havi said:

 

This doesn't mean anything. This screenshot was 4 days after the E&E announcement and it looked like this

 

It went back to 170~177 and now there is today's event and people see red and numbers going down and think it's a huge thing.
 

The thing is, this is how stock works, it goes down then out of sudden up. Outrage had nothing to do with it. Just look at the Activision Blizzard stock now, it will definitely go up soon too, be it this week or a couple next months.

[IzzyBlues]

25 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

I'm not about to defend harassing developers. What I am going to do is politely remind everyone that this is a company that has been going around harassing people in the mod community, sending private investigators to their homes, and effectively doxxing them in court documents by revealing their identities. Them getting prissy over harassment is pretty f*cking hypocritical given their actions in recent years.

Grove Street Games (who are the ones that are actually getting harassed here) have absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

 

Also, Rockstar developers don't go around siccing PI's on modders. That's Take 2...

Edited November 19, 2021 by IzzyBlues

[MiloARG]

I hope they polish the DX12 support (or even add Vulkan), which is literally the only way to play these games with a decent performance. Using the -dx12 parament brings crashes and bugs, but stable FPS.
I think that's the biggest problem currently.

 

They also need to take care of the god awful characters (from the main ones all the way to Old Reece or Denise).

 

And of course the multiple glitches, bugs (some carried from the old versions which is unacceptable), and map errors (I've seen quite a few in Red County).

Edited November 19, 2021 by MiloARG

[Comrade-1981]

I'm inclined to believe their definition of "level of quality" isn't in the ballpark of what this statement would lead fans to conceptualize. Not even trying to be the cliché armchair forum guy here but I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm eventually proven wrong. This reeks of PR all over though, the situation was abysmally handled and the gist is: 'We played fast and loose but we played ourselves and the general public is now unfortunately aware of that'. 

[Need For Madness Auto]

 

[Pete4000uk]

I would love to hear the communications between R*, T2 and GSG over the past week! 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Just now, IzzyBlues said:

Grove Street Games has absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Rockstar are the ones who made the post, not GSG.
 

1 minute ago, IzzyBlues said:

Also, Rockstar developers don't go around siccing PI's on modders. That's Take 2...

...and who you think has the power to stop them?
It's been said before but I'll just remind you; Rockstar and Take-Two are more like a partnership than a normal publisher-developer relationship. Rockstar have shown in the past (such as during the OpenIV debacle) that they have some sway over Take-Two to prevent, or even reverse, actions like these.

If Rockstar have the power to stop it but don't it means they're complicit.

[Kirsty]

21 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

I'm not about to defend harassing developers. What I am going to do is politely remind everyone that this is a company that has been going around harassing people in the mod community, sending private investigators to their homes, and effectively doxxing them in court documents by revealing their identities. Them getting prissy over harassment is pretty f*cking hypocritical given their actions in recent years.

 

I dunno. Have you not seen the recent industry events to do with sexual harassment? ActiBlizz is falling apart because devs were harassed by superiors, with multiple leads now removed and calls for the CEO to be removed because he knew about it and didn't take any action to prevent it from happening again. Individual devs are just doing their jobs, they aren't responsible for management or legal decisions.

[zanesix]

I'm tired of people shifting the blame from Rockstar. Is it really not obvious by now? "Bu-but GSG made the remaster!!!!" "b-b-but take 2 sued all those modders!!" Yeak ok, but who do you think has been pulling the strings this whole time? Who was the one who looked at this product and thought "yeah sure whatever ship it, people will buy it anyways". Like come on.

 

I'm sorry to break it to you, but Rockstar is capable of making bad decisions. They are not the heroes of the gaming industry you once looked up to them as.

Edited November 19, 2021 by zanesix

[Carbonox]

1 minute ago, Kirsty said:

 

I dunno. Have you not seen the recent industry events to do with sexual harassment? ActiBlizz is falling apart because devs were harassed by superiors, with multiple leads now removed and calls for the CEO to be removed because he knew about it and didn't take any action to prevent it from happening again. Individual devs are just doing their jobs, they aren't responsible for management or legal decisions.

The point he was making had nothing to do with developers deserving it, but the hypocricy of the company to now get pissy over internet comments while condoning much worse real life harassment from their own thugs.

[IzzyBlues]

10 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

Rockstar are the ones who made the post, not GSG.

And? That doesn't change the fact that GSG devs are the ones getting harassed here.

 

10 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

...and who you think has the power to stop them?

Are you implying that the Rockstar devs themselves have the power to stop/halt Take 2's actions?

 

10 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

It's been said before but I'll just remind you; Rockstar and Take-Two are more like a partnership than a normal publisher-developer relationship. Rockstar have shown in the past (such as during the OpenIV debacle) that they have some sway over Take-Two to prevent, or even reverse, actions like these.

'The Rockstar Games label was founded in 1998 to create the most innovative and progressive interactive entertainment. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.'

 

https://www.rockstargames.com/corpinfo

 

 

9 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

Individual devs are just doing their jobs, they aren't responsible for management or legal decisions.

This.

Edited November 19, 2021 by IzzyBlues

[BS_BlackScout]

10 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

Individual devs are just doing their jobs, they aren't responsible for management or legal decisions.

I wish more people realized THIS. I am not saying that it is OK to harass management, but devs??
Man, whatever it is the job that they are doing, good or bad, there is someone overseeing their work and letting it pass. Those are to blame. (NOT TO BE HARASSED!)

There's an entire hierarchy system on most companies and eventually, who does this get to?

I mean, we know T2 has Rockstar by the nuts... To what extent were each responsible? We can't know for sure. But how come didn't T2 look at it and expect all the damage?

Same goes for Rockstar.

Did they legitimately not know how bad it was, did they brush it off? I personally think they did know, considering how they marketed things and kept some stuff such as gameplay footage a secret.

 

Now, GSG.

The artists and coders and everyone else, they all did their job. Badly or not.

Still, someone up in the hierarchy there looked at it and said "Hmm, I guess we can release that" or maybe they didn't think it was on a good state?

 

In any case, think of it this way:
GSG saw the game at a specific state. Sent it to Rockstar. Rockstar saw it at that state. T2 (hopefully) saw it at that same state.
Someone, somewhere decided it was good for November 11 and that's what we got.

 

Now what really happened?

• Rockstar pressured GSG because T2 pressured them?
• GSG lied to Rockstar saying it was all good and that they could do it in time and Rockstar blindly believed it?
• T2 blindly believed Rockstar and is now seeking for damage control?

 

Honestly, so many permutations I can't even begin to imagine what happened exactly.

 

Nonetheless, it's not dev's fault in any way. It's on the people who approved or potentially rushed things.
BUT ONCE AGAIN, this does not excuse harassment. I am just not understanding well why people target the devs when it isn't their fault.

Edited November 19, 2021 by BS_BlackScout

[MeatSafeMurderer]

2 minutes ago, IzzyBlues said:

And? That doesn't change the fact that GSG devs are the ones getting harassed here.

Yes, and if GSG had made the post complaining about harassment I wouldn't have said anything, but Rockstar did that instead.
 

3 minutes ago, IzzyBlues said:

'The Rockstar Games label was founded in 1998 to create the most innovative and progressive interactive entertainment. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.'

Irrelevent, as I have already stated Rockstar have already demonstrated the sway they hold over Take-Two, it was Rockstar's intervention after widespread outcry that resulted in the Cease and Desist filed against OpenIV by Take-Two that ultimately got the CnD dropped and OpenIV reinstated (with a couple of concessions). Take-Two may own Rockstar but it doesn't mean Rockstar has no control.

[Havi]

I think some people have lost the definition of Publisher.

 

Rockstar Games lead the development of Grand Theft Auto The Definitive Edition
 

Grove Street Games is a company that got hired to develop on these titles under the vision of Rockstar Games. So that means any decision that was made in the Definitive Edition is done by Rockstar Games with a mixture of proposals from Grove Street Games developers themselves.
 

Take-Two gave the final greenlight to publish this title.

So if you wanna play the blame game, it's Take-Two. They approved it.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Havi

[IzzyBlues]

8 minutes ago, Carbonox said:

the hypocricy of the company to now get pissy over internet comments

"We would kindly ask our community to please maintain a respectful and civil discourse around this release as we work through these issues."

That constitutes as "pissy"?

[Need For Madness Auto]

 

[aFIockOfSeagulls]

49 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

I'll reserve judgement on this apology until I see actual ACTIONS R*. We'll see what happens.

 

This, action speak louder than words.

[Kirsty]

6 minutes ago, zanesix said:

I'm tired of people shifting the blame from Rockstar. Is it really not obvious by now? "Bu-but GSG made the remaster!!!!" "b-b-but take 2 sued all those modders!!" Yeak ok, but who do you think has been pulling the strings this whole time? Who was the one who looked at this product and thought "yeah sure whatever ship it, people will buy it anyways". Like come on.

 

I'm sorry to break it to you, but Rockstar is capable of making bad decisions. They are not the heroes of the gaming industry you once looked up to them as.

 

I pretty much agree with you that if it's a Rockstar game, then Rockstar should be the ones to answer. Regardless of this, there is still seperation from where these decisions come from; most devs started in modding, I'm sure they don't agree with the takedowns either, but they still can't do much to challenge what happens in the legal department.

 

5 minutes ago, Carbonox said:

The point he was making had nothing to do with developers deserving it, but the hypocricy of the company to now get pissy over internet comments while condoning much worse real life harassment from their own thugs.

 

Fair, the lawsuit actions can't be defended, but devs do deserve the shout-out that Rockstar have given them in the apology, they have received hate (at their personal accounts) for far too long, and it is Rockstar's responsibility to take care of their employees in this way. 

[LeimBR]

Game is already updating apparently.

 

[IzzyBlues]

9 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

Yes, and if GSG had made the post complaining about harassment I wouldn't have said anything, but Rockstar did that instead.

I would harbor that article and the request for harassment to stop is Rockstar speaking on behalf of Grove Street Games.

 

9 minutes ago, MeatSafeMurderer said:

Irrelevent, as I have already stated Rockstar have already demonstrated the sway they hold over Take-Two, it was Rockstar's intervention after widespread outcry that resulted in the Cease and Desist filed against OpenIV by Take-Two that ultimately got the CnD dropped and OpenIV reinstated (with a couple of concessions). Take-Two may own Rockstar but it doesn't mean Rockstar has no control.

Mate, you've completely missed the point of what I'm trying to say, which is evident because you've just foregone the other part of my post about how the f*ck could a developer  have any sway or influence over a decision that Take 2 makes.

Edited November 19, 2021 by IzzyBlues

[sutalu]

4 hours ago, Rm93 said:

 "unexpected technical issues " 

 

Something like this

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by sutalu