GTA III Definitive Edition Complaints & Criticisms Topic

[oCrapaCreeper]

GTA III is not GTA III without you being shotgunned to death in Saint Mark's. Skill issue obviously.

[ZaxxerDog]

6 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

GTA III is not GTA III without you being shotgunned to death in Saint Mark's. Skill issue obviously.

I'm just baffled. You people can't read.

 

But hey then I guess having bs RNG during a race is just good game design:

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by ZaxxerDog

[RoughD]

1 hour ago, Punkd said:

i play gta 3 on series x atm and besides some minor glitches i didnt experience any major bug etc, only the rain at night is messy, oh and im havin fun so far (are we allowed to have fun with the trilogy?)

Btw, do you play with HDR?

[BananaSpud666]

8 minutes ago, ZaxxerDog said:

But hey then I guess having bs RNG during a race is just good game design:

Yup

[ZaxxerDog]

7 minutes ago, BananaSpud666 said:

Yup

Care to elaborate?

[BananaSpud666]

6 minutes ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Care to elaborate?

[ZaxxerDog]

3 minutes ago, BananaSpud666 said:

[Helegad]

1 hour ago, ZaxxerDog said:

I'm just baffled. You people can't read.

 

Bro sometimes in life you just lose, and not completing Paramedic and El Burro's missions before Sayonara Salvatore is one of those times. It's an easy fix though, you just pause the game, press "start new game", and enjoy it even more the second time around because now you know where you went wrong and what to do instead.

[ZaxxerDog]

7 minutes ago, Helegad said:

 

Bro sometimes in life you just lose

And if it's GSG then you just lose every single time, I get it... but it could have been so much better.

Edited November 17, 2021 by ZaxxerDog

[Helegad]

5 minutes ago, ZaxxerDog said:

And if it's GSG then you just lose every single time, I get it... but it could have been so much better.

 

No, that was Rockstar's decision, stop crying over GSG, it's pathetic man.

[ZaxxerDog]

23 minutes ago, Helegad said:

 

No, that was Rockstar's decision, stop crying over GSG, it's pathetic man.

Haha, okay but you're mistaking my complaining for crying and I'm doing my complaining in the "complaints / criticism" topic. It's not my fault that the thread for praising the game is yet to even reach one full page of comments...

[BananaSpud666]

23 minutes ago, ZaxxerDog said:

It's not my fault that the thread for praising the game

 

I'm praising the original, not the DE Remaster

[ZaxxerDog]

10 minutes ago, BananaSpud666 said:

I'm praising the original, not the DE Remaster

I meant this thread:

Btw. I can't believe my eyes but this is the most popular post on CrackWatch now (no, that's not the remaster):

It really shows how badly they messed up if the "Fitgirl Repack" of the old games is more sought after then the goddamn official remaster.

[lil vader]

9 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Okay, then imagine being a new player. You complete the main missions in Portland, don't even notice the El Burro stuff at first, only later and start doing them: right at Turismo you're f*cked. Sure, you can complete it but there is nothing to "git gud" about racing to checkpoints that include being in the middle of Saint Mark's. You have to get there and if there's a shotgunner, you're f*cked. You'll just retry until the RNG gods won't put shotgunners there. Big'n'Veiny will be even worse, your best chance will be taking a shortcut which is hard until you don't know where the magazines are so again: trial and error until you don't get shotgunners.

 

You're being misleading because you know just as well as I do that the way GTA 3 is structured means that players are likely to do El Burro's missions before Last Requests. A far better basis for your argument would have been pointing out that new players are at a disadvantage after "Trial by Fire". Regardless, if players choose not to do El Burro's missions before you're exiled from Portland that is their own fault, no? His missions aren't required for game completion and are still perfectly playable after the fact. GTA 3 is a hard game for a lot of people. I didn't say this myself but yeah, actually, players do need to learn to git gud.

 

9 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Now that's not good gameplay, in fact that's terrible f*cking gameplay. Is there anything wrong with shotgunners being in Saint Mark's? Not really, if you're not on a mission you can avoid them and you killed their boss so of course they're hunting you but it really f*cks with mission difficulty if you don't know how the game works. Big'n'Veiny shouldn't suddenly become the hardest mission in the game just because you did the missions in the "wrong" order in a game that's supposed to be abour freedom. If you can't see that then I don't think we have anything else to talk about.

 

In a game about freedom, there should be consequences for making the wrong choices. That's precisely what freedoms all about. Otherwise there are plenty of other casual games out there, two of which are included in the same game collection. I'm sorry that at some point you chose to do El Burro's missions after Salvatore's missions but the actual volume of players that would experience this is probably quite minute. I'd rather keep the integrity of the game intact rather than unnecessarily water it down to appeal to new players. There are plenty of other variables that will prevent the player from completing 100%, it's odd you would choose this hill to die on.

 

9 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

And seriously if you're an experienced player who deliberately completes El Burro's missions after Sayonara Salvatore for that "real challenge" then please put your hand up so that I could see what a huge idiot you are. Like that scenario doesn't exist, nobody does that.

 

You're right, no one does this. Why bring it up?

[DJ-Jelly-Doughnut]

So I haven't complained about anything too major yet. But I'm starting to see more and more of the bad placement. Like floating leaves and floating trees. It's very obvious when doing the 'Gripped!'mission in Shoreside Vale. Did they not test that level? Or did they see everything floating and just think it was fine? I didn't get a screenshot. I should have. But there are probably 10+ floating trees in those hills. 

 

Another spot that gets me every time is the spot near Ammunation in Staunton Island. If you head East on that road toward Portland and drop down off the road to the docks you'll see floating leaves there as well.

[ZaxxerDog]

2 hours ago, lil vader said:

 

You're being misleading because you know just as well as I do that the way GTA 3 is structured means that players are likely to do El Burro's missions before Last Requests.

When I was a kid I couldn't complete Turismo for the life of me and in fact in order to do Turismo you kinda need some "tools" since Portland doesn't have high performing cars except for the one Banshee. You need that Banshee (or you can just trial and error it with a Mafia Sentiel because the AI will mess up eventually anyway and you can win with a bad time but again: new players) and it takes some time to find it while the rest of the missions are straight forward. For that and Big'n'Veiny's difficulty I think that it's very much a given that most new players would find the El Burro missions rather soon but they wouldn't be able to complete them for quite a while. Those are the hardest missions in Portland, as a kid Big'n'Veiny was the last mission I completed in the whole game because the difficulty delayed me (and yes I did it with shotgunners).

 

*Just a sidenote but Last Requests does nothing in terms of your reputation with the mafia, you the get aggro and the shotgunners only after Sayonara Salvatore.

 

2 hours ago, lil vader said:

I'd rather keep the integrity of the game intact rather than unnecessarily water it down to appeal to new players.

That's exactly what autosaving and a ton of other sh*t already does though? Death has no consequence and I'd say that's quite the biggie compared to disabling the shotgunners for two f*cking missions. Autosaving makes having safehouses f*cking pointless apart from passing the time, the world map and the GPS eliminates the need to learn the city layout plus there are a number of other small changes that affect the "integrity" of the game already (for example pointing a gun at a cop now gives you a wanted level, that's actually a change that makes sense), the new aiming system makes combat way too easy etc. GTA 3's original game loop is absolutely about you going from mission to mission while regularly revisiting the safe houses because that's how the game makes you learn the city layout, that doesn't exist anymore, surely that matters more than 2 missions not spawning shotgunners. Hell in Mike Lips' Last Launch you no longer need to park the car properly, the whole trilogy is based on a mobile mess and you want to make an argument on how GSG preserved the intergrity of the game? The most nonsensical thing I've read this week.

 

The funny thing about auto saving though is that because of the game design geniuses over at GSG you only get one slot and it saves at the start and at the end of every mission. People used to modern games rely on the autosave if it exists and don't give a crap about saving manually so for example if you don't do Kenji's stuff and unlock Donald Love's missions then you might end up finding out that you've just offed Kenji and now you're locked out of all of Kenji's missions because your one slot is already overwritten.  Same goes for the various mafia missions, if you just happen to start Last Requests before it's time then your autosave is already messed up so autosaving will actually f*ck the game up for a whole bunch of people.

 

2 hours ago, lil vader said:

You're right, no one does this. Why bring it up?

Because it shows that the thing you want to preserve is actually non-existent gameplay. Nobody plays Turismo after offing Salvatore apart from me when I do a dumb video on how bad it is.  So according to you it would mess with the game's integrity if content that no second time player participates in got changed and according to the other guy I need to "git gud" in order to get through some random RNG that I will never experience again.

Edited November 18, 2021 by ZaxxerDog

[BananaSpud666]

27 minutes ago, DJ-Jelly-Doughnut said:

But I'm starting to see more and more of the bad placement. Like floating leaves and floating trees. It's very obvious when doing the 'Gripped!'mission in Shoreside Vale. Did they not test that level? Or did they see everything floating and just think it was fine? I didn't get a screenshot. I should have. But there are probably 10+ floating trees in those hills.

I seen people assume that it was in the original, but no, it wasn't

[lil vader]

Spoiler

3 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

When I was a kid I couldn't complete Turismo for the life of me and in fact in order to do Turismo you kinda need some "tools" since Portland doesn't have high performing cars except for the one Banshee. You need that Banshee (or you can just trial and error it with a Mafia Sentiel because the AI will mess up eventually anyway and you can win with a bad time but again: new players) and it takes some time to find it while the rest of the missions are straight forward. For that and Big'n'Veiny's difficulty I think that it's very much a given that most new players would find the El Burro missions rather soon but they wouldn't be able to complete them for quite a while. Those are the hardest missions in Portland, as a kid Big'n'Veiny was the last mission I completed in the whole game because the difficulty delayed me (and yes I did it with shotgunners).

 

I honestly have no idea what you're on about. Turismo and Big'n'Veiny are super easy. Most people know of the Banshee too, as circumstantial as that statement is.

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

That's exactly what autosaving and a ton of other sh*t already does though? Death has no consequence and I'd say that's quite the biggie compared to disabling the shotgunners for two f*cking missions. Autosaving makes having safehouses f*cking pointless apart from passing the time, the world map and the GPS eliminates the need to learn the city layout plus there are a number of other small changes that affect the "integrity" of the game already (for example pointing a gun at a cop now gives you a wanted level, that's actually a change that makes sense), the new aiming system makes combat way too easy etc. GTA 3's original game loop is absolutely about you going from mission to mission while regularly revisiting the safe houses because that's how the game makes you learn the city layout, that doesn't exist anymore, surely that matters more than 2 missions not spawning shotgunners. Hell in Mike Lips' Last Launch you no longer need to park the car properly, the whole trilogy is based on a mobile mess and you want to make an argument on how GSG preserved the intergrity of the game? The most nonsensical thing I've read this week.

 

The funny thing about auto saving though is that because of the game design geniuses over at GSG you only get one slot and it saves at the start and at the end of every mission. People used to modern games rely on the autosave if it exists and don't give a crap about saving manually so for example if you don't do Kenji's stuff and unlock Donald Love's missions then you might end up finding out that you've just offed Kenji and now you're locked out of all of Kenji's missions because your one slot is already overwritten.  Same goes for the various mafia missions, if you just happen to start Last Requests before it's time then your autosave is already messed up so autosaving will actually f*ck the game up for a whole bunch of people.

 

Chill out brah. The changes that GSG made are nonsensical and DUMB. But you prove my point in your own post.. death is merely an inconvenience. AFAIK you don't even lose your weapons when you die so what are you complaining about new players getting killed by the shotgunners. At worst they'll have to restart the mission. If anything it takes away a lot of the challenge of the original. FYI I didn't say that GSG preserved the integrity of the game, I said that it should be preserved. In all regards. To your second point, again I have no idea what you're talking about. I just checked and there are actually multiple save slots and the auto-save. If players aren't manually saving their game, especially on a game that is generally considered buggy, once again it's their own fault.

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Because it shows that the thing you want to preserve is actually non-existent gameplay. Nobody plays Turismo after offing Salvatore apart from me when I do a dumb video on how bad it is.

 

Where do you keep pulling this stuff out of? When did I say I want to "preserve non-existant gameplay"? You're the one saying that people play El Burro's missions after Sayonara Salvatore for a "challenge" and I'm telling you no one does that unless it's literally their first time playing and they have no idea what's going on. 

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

So according to you it would mess with the game's integrity if content that no second time player participates in got changed and according to the other guy I need to "git gud" in order to get through some random RNG that I will never experience again.

 

Can you please clarify what you're trying to say because either I'm misunderstanding you or you're failing to actually be coherent. I'm saying that any changes the game concerning it's difficulty are changes to the games integrity. Like at all.

Edited November 18, 2021 by lil vader

[ZaxxerDog]

16 minutes ago, lil vader said:

The changes that GSG made are nonsensical and DUMB.

No they're not, they actually smooth out the experience for new players quite a bit, apart from the need of multiple auto save slots (no, I wasn't talking about the number of manual save slots) they actually did a good job in that regard... which is why the shotgunners during those two missions are dumb.

16 minutes ago, lil vader said:

You're the one saying that people play El Burro's missions after Sayonara Salvatore for a "challenge" and I'm telling you no one does that unless it's literally their first time playing and they have no idea what's going on. 

Which is the exact demographic that I was talking about. Compared to the size of GTA's current audience barely anyone has played GTA 3 before.

 

16 minutes ago, lil vader said:

I'm misunderstanding you

Your first valid point.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by ZaxxerDog

[lil vader]

Spoiler

3 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

No they're not, they actually smooth out the experience for new players quite a bit, apart from the need of multiple auto save slots (no, I wasn't talking about the number of manual save slots) they actually did a good job in that regard... which is why the shotgunners during those two missions are dumb.

 

Why do you insist on GSG needing to dumb this game down for new players?

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Which is the exact demographic that I was talking about. Compared to the size of GTA's current audience barely anyone has played GTA 3 before.

 

Can you actually start providing some numbers? Some actual evidence that this game has so many new players they need to up-end the original game design just to make it easier? You're insisting on a point that is entirely anecdotal. This isn't 2001 anymore either, everyone has access to hundreds of thousands of guides, walk-throughs, tutorials and other such tools. I would venture to guess that 0.01% of players are both new and willing to play this game completely blind.

 

Spoiler

3 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Your first valid point.

 

It wasn't actually a point, and maybe you would like to respond to the question I was asking rather than trying to get in a dig.

Edited November 18, 2021 by lil vader

[ZaxxerDog]

23 minutes ago, lil vader said:

Why do you insist on GSG needing to dumb this game down for new players?

Adding quality of life features is not dumbing it down, they just repackaged it a bit for a modern audience. The best solution would be making all that stuff into toggle options of course but frankly I don't care much because the original games will always exist and those will always be my go to options. And even if the DE magically improves to a state I'd consider playable I already know where everything is, I already know the solution to everything so a bunch of QoL stuff doesn't affect my experience at all.

 

23 minutes ago, lil vader said:

I would venture to guess that 0.01% of players are both new and willing to play this game completely blind.

Do you have any idea how many copies GTA 5 has sold? Do you have any idea of the sizes of the GTA Online and FiveM audiences? Insane stuff:

https://www.gamesradar.com/gta-series-sales-top-355-million-as-gta-3-hits-its-20th-anniversary/

This is the target demographic for the remasters. Compared to this GTA 3's lifetime sales are around 15 million which is amazing of course but it's nothing compared to how the sequels performed.

 

23 minutes ago, lil vader said:

It wasn't actually a point, and maybe you would like to respond to the question I was asking rather than trying to get in a dig.

I clearly explained what I meant: you don't play Turismo / Big'n'Veiny after finishing off the Portland main missions ---> me neither ---> nobody else does apart from new players ---> so why insist on keeping in content that nobody will ever play and it only messes with new players? Turismo is a replayable mission that nobody is replaying because the point of replaying it is to improve your time but you can't improve your time because of the shotgunners... great, let's keep that how it is.

Edited November 18, 2021 by ZaxxerDog

[lil vader]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Adding quality of life features is not dumbing it down, they just repackaged it a bit for a modern audience. The best solution would be making all that stuff into toggle options of course but frankly I don't care much because the original games will always exist and those will always be my go to options. And even if the DE magically improves to a state I'd consider playable I already know where everything is, I already know the solution to everything so a bunch of QoL stuff doesn't affect my experience at all.

 

I hate to be the one to tell you mate but it is dumbing it down mechanically. Saying they "repackaged it for modern audiences" is just another way of phrasing it.

 

As for your comments about the originals always being there I don't know if you're aware but they actually took down the original Steam releases. It is now effectively impossible to by a first-hand brand new copy of the game as it's no longer in circulation. This won't affect you but it will affect people who go looking that will need to hunt for a physical copy on eBay or through a third-party retailer.

 

A bunch of QoL stuff might not affect your experience but not everything is custom tailored for you, there at the very least could have been an option to toggle the old difficulty settings like in the Mafia remake.

 

Spoiler

2 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Do you have any idea how many copies GTA 5 has sold? Do you have any idea of the sizes of the GTA Online and FiveM audiences? Insane stuff:

https://www.gamesradar.com/gta-series-sales-top-355-million-as-gta-3-hits-its-20th-anniversary/

This is the target demographic for the remasters. Compared to this GTA 3's lifetime sales are around 15 million which is amazing of course but it's nothing compared to how the sequels performed.

 

Unless we see some numbers for how the DE is doing this is completely irrelevant. Not every person who bought a copy of V, or plays GTA Online or FiveM is going to pick up a copy of the DE.

 

Spoiler

2 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

I clearly explained what I meant

 

Evidently not.

 

Spoiler

2 hours ago, ZaxxerDog said:

you don't play Turismo / Big'n'Veiny after finishing off the Portland main missions ---> me neither ---> nobody else does apart from new players ---> so why insist on keeping in content that nobody will ever play and it only messes with new players?

 

Once again can you supply any evidence whatsoever that this is such a plight on new players it NEEDED to be fixed. You keep saying it affects new players yet I've never seen this complaint. And once again, if a new player does that, they'll learn from their mistake in the future. Not ever video game in existence needs to hold your hand and treat you like an idiot. Now you're going on about replaying Turismo. That is such a non-issue, it's not necessary to fix, what's not to understand? Just get good brah.

Edited November 18, 2021 by lil vader

[ZaxxerDog]

4 minutes ago, lil vader said:

I hate to be the one to tell you mate but it is dumbing it down mechanically. Saying they "repackaged it for modern audiences" is just another way of phrasing it.

You're free to have that opinion, I think it's basement dweller nerd thinking.

 

5 minutes ago, lil vader said:

I don't know if you're aware but they actually took down the original Steam releases.

No longer being able to buy the original games sucks (though I'm pretty sure that grey market sites will have a few remaining Steam keys at incredibly overpriced rates for a while) but at the end of the day it only sucks for Take Two. In the long run this means that the original PC ports are abandonware now so pirated copies are free to sail the high seas ---> no more messing around with downgrading the sh*tty Steam versions just because you want your basic fix packs to work, no more music restore patches necessary because there WON'T be more music removed etc.

 

14 minutes ago, lil vader said:

Unless we see some numbers for how the DE is doing this is completely irrelevant.

You think it's doing bad though? GTA doing bad?  It could be literally Sam Houser's sh*t in the box and people would still buy it, GTA Online is one of the worst online games I've ever played and it's still going strong etc.

16 minutes ago, lil vader said:

Evidently not.

Your problem is not my problem if you know what I mean. I won't explain it for the 5th time.

 

17 minutes ago, lil vader said:

Once again can you supply any evidence whatsoever that this is such a plight on new players it NEEDED to be fixed.

Pay attention to the community and you will find your evidence, it's certainly not my job to "prove" a commonly known thing. Saint Mark's complaints was a recurring thing whenever remaster "wishlists" came up, you can even find some arguments among the more popular GTA youtubers (and those people mostly have GTA Online shill channels so you know, that's a far reaching problem then :D):

 

 

[lil vader]

16 minutes ago, ZaxxerDog said:

You're free to have that opinion, I think it's basement dweller nerd thinking.

 

LMAO stopped reading here. It's clear you're not going to listen to reason and resort to petty insults. Sorry you got absolutely lit up in this thread because you couldn't articulate your points very well. In the complaints and criticisms topic you sure are defending this game instead of actually bringing something to the table. GTA 3 was and still is a great game that holds up today, that believe it or not anyone could realistically pick up and play. GSG really didn't have the right to tinker with its difficulty nor it's original design philosophy without at least offering a compromise for older players in the form of a difficulty toggle or something. Their job was to update the graphics of the game, update the controls and fix the issues, bugs and glitches that have plagued the game since 2001. But they didn't, and despite what you think, "muh mafia shotgunners" and "muh el burro missions" should have been pretty low on the list of priorities. Get over your little ego problem and actually contribute something real to the thread instead of fishing for replies for the last three pages.

Edited November 18, 2021 by lil vader

[ZaxxerDog]

30 minutes ago, lil vader said:

It's clear you're not going to listen to reason and resort to petty insults.

Where did I insult you? You have backwards thinking when it comes to QoL changes that are literally the only thing about this release that people generally seem to be happy with. I didn't say that you're dumb or stupid, it's just that people who think like you are usually those "old school" gatekeepers of gaming communities who are out of touch with more modern expectations. For example this:

30 minutes ago, lil vader said:

GTA 3 was and still is a great game that holds up today

The f*ck it does, mechanically even San Andreas crushes and rapes GTA 3 (and even when it came out Mafia 1 on the PC already destroyed it in visuals and mission design but that's a whole other story). GTA 3 is my favourite out of the old trilogy and even I can admit that, it's horribly dated and janky and that's how I like it. To people who started with GTA 5 the third game will feel like a horrible jank fest so if any developer can ease up on that barrier and let those people experience the 3D era games then cool, go for it. The 3D games have a much better developed world than what 4, 5 and Online managed to build and I'd love to see more people experience them. So the QoL stuff is great in my book, what's not great is... well, everything else.

 

You know which 3D era GTA holds up well to this day btw? VCS, that game's an excellent culmination of everything that's great about the 3D era games and absolutely has the best writing out of all 5 too.

 

30 minutes ago, lil vader said:

Get over your little ego problem and actually contribute something real to the thread instead of fishing for replies for the last three pages.

Hey, I thought I'm the one insulting you.

Edited November 18, 2021 by ZaxxerDog

[BananaSpud666]

10 minutes ago, ZaxxerDog said:

Hey, I thought I'm the one insulting you.

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, lil vader said:

Their job was to update the graphics of the game, update the controls and fix the issues, bugs and glitches that have plagued the game since 2001.

There are even more bugs that weren't even in the originals, because of Wardrum's lazy efforts (I know it's Grove Street Games, but im still going to refer to them by their original names)

[ZaxxerDog]

23 minutes ago, BananaSpud666 said:

There are even more bugs that weren't even in the originals, because of Wardrum's lazy efforts (I know it's Grove Street Games, but im still going to refer to them by their original names)

That doesn't matter at all though, their old bugs they can fix. The truly bad part is how they didn't even implement the fixes of the SilentPatch and how they essentially released a game with 60 fps support while it's almost as broken on 60 fps as the originals were. Framerate Vigilante does a better job at running the original game at 60 fps than the official remasters that officially support 60 fps do, let that sink in.

[Helegad]

@ZaxxerDog You just keep getting BTFO again and again, might be time to put the Doritos and Dew back in the fridge and go to bed. How tf is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you keep saying "shills" and posting Youtube poopies like anybody is gonna actually watch that garbage? I've played GTA III DE to 100% and enjoyed it thoroughly, how much have you actually played?

[Americana]

To be honest, I love this game for the atmosphere and the realistic settings - but I hate how outdated it is nowadays.

[Punkd]

16 hours ago, RoughD said:

Btw, do you play with HDR?