The real mistake of GTA: The Trilogy - The Definitive Edition

[DarkLink1308]

GTA: The Trilogy - The Definitive Edition was made using as base the PC port of the original GTA: The Trilogy. The PC port of these games is very buggy and capped having many inferior things compared to the PS2 version of GTA: The Trilogy. This is not the first time this has happened, unfortunately every port of GTA: The Trilogy uses the PC port as a base and all these ports inherit the same bugs and downgrades from the PC port. Rarely are any of these bugs and downgrades fixed. With GTA: The Trilogy - The Definitive Edition was no different.... In the trailer for GTA: The Trilogy - The Definitive Edition you can notice bugs and downgrades inherited from the PC port of the original GTA: The Trilogy that have not been fixed. For example, in the first scene of the trailer for GTA: The Trilogy - The Definitive Edition which shows a scene from GTA San Andreas, if you compare the scene from the remastered version with the scene from the PS2 version you will see that the PS2 version contains more grass in the scene . In the PS2 version of GTA III the trains contained a graffiti texture that disappeared from the PC port and in the scene showing the GTA III remastered train in the GTA: The Trilogy - The Definitive Edition trailer you can see that the graffiti texture has not been restored or recreated .

For more details on all bugs and downgrades of the original GTA: The Trilogy PC ports see on youtube the comparison videos between the PS2 version and the PC version of GTA III, GTA VC and GTA SA on Vadim M or Streetskulls channel. 

 

The original GTA: The Trilogy PC port is very similar to Silent Hill HD Collection, it's a good way to summarize it. If you know about Silent Hill HD Collection you know that this is not a good thing. If you don't know about it, Silent Hill HD Collection games are inferior compared to the original PS2 games because the basis for this remaster was beta builds of the original games because Konami (the company that owns the rights to Silent Hill franchise) lost the source code for the final build of the original games. This resulted in a lot of bugs and downgrades compared to the original games. Also, many textures were changed and despite having higher resolution they are not faithful to the atmosphere of the game.

Of course the PC ports of the original GTA: The Trilogy were made using the original game's final build source code, but the rest of the story is the same as the Silent Hill HD Collection story.

 

For a remaster that calls itself "The Definitive Edition", it is not acceptable to have inferior things compared to the PS2 version of the original games.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be a hater, I just wish the best for these games I love so much and it's hard to accept that 21-year-old hardware version of these games can be better than current versions using current technology . This is a downgrade and I believe you agree with me that no one likes downgrades.

Edited November 8, 2021 by DarkLink1308

[Havi]

You are right about one and only one thing, and that is that they used the PC port as a base. This was with all the ports that become available during the 10th anniversary. You cannot compare this with the upcoming Definitive Edition. That was one of the most laziest and cheapest 10th anniversary they did.

 

The three games have pretty much been reworked TO SOME EXTEND running on a completely different engine with modern improvements. With this version of the three gems, you can clearly tell that they put effort into touching up these beloved games. You are missing a lot of facts and I feel like you are stuck from what is currently available and what has been shown. You're looking at grass and graffiti.

 

I'm not so sure if you are familiar with game development but if you do, please clarify to me how you think a game that was made in the early 2000's can suddenly smoothly run on a brand new engine which these games never have been introduced to before with new character models, new systems without any bugs. It's a literal snowball effect. You change up the entire model and things tend to break. They are not gonna cherry pick each individual issue and spend hours and hours fixing them.

 

And the fact that you created your forum account and had to mention that "I don't want to be a hater" says enough. You didn't had to state that if you were fact checking and speaking the truth.

 

Conclusion. The upcoming Definitive Edition is going to disappoint a lot of people who are saying "The game doesn't feel like the original anymore." yet they request new features such as swimming in GTA 3. I still can't wrap my head around that one. These 3 games are dramatically changed but still remain the original concept of the game but it looks like some people can't understand that.

 

Just a little tired of people coming in and hopping onto the Anti Rockstar Games bandwagon. 

 

All I can say is, wait till Thursday, watch the upcoming videos on GTA Series Videos channel and then come back and share your feedback and thoughts about it.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Havi

[S1aveUnit]

I think the game will turn out well. PC-based or not. I'm playing this. After that mess that was Cyberpunk 2077, I'm going back to San Andreas when I can't even play the original PC version on Steam. It crashes my PC. And I'm not buying an old console just to play old GTA.

[CynicalMexican]

1 hour ago, Havi said:

You are right about one and only one thing, and that is that they used the PC port as a base. This was with all the ports that become available during the 10th anniversary. You cannot compare this with the upcoming Definitive Edition. That was one of the most laziest and cheapest 10th anniversary they did.

 

The three games have pretty much been reworked TO SOME EXTEND running on a completely different engine with modern improvements. With this version of the three gems, you can clearly tell that they put effort into touching up these beloved games. You are missing a lot of facts and I feel like you are stuck from what is currently available and what has been shown. You're looking at grass and graffiti.

 

I'm not so sure if you are familiar with game development but if you do, please clarify to me how you think a game that was made in the early 2000's can suddenly smoothly run on a brand new engine which these games never have been introduced to before with new character models, new systems without any bugs. It's a literal snowball effect. You change up the entire model and things tend to break. They are not gonna cherry pick each individual issue and spend hours and hours fixing them.

 

And the fact that you created your forum account and had to mention that "I don't want to be a hater" says enough. You didn't had to state that if you were fact checking and speaking the truth.

 

Conclusion. The upcoming Definitive Edition is going to disappoint a lot of people who are saying "The game doesn't feel like the original anymore." yet they request new features such as swimming in GTA 3. I still can't wrap my head around that one. These 3 games are dramatically changed but still remain the original concept of the game but it looks like some people can't understand that.

 

Just a little tired of people coming in and hopping onto the Anti Rockstar Games bandwagon. 

 

All I can say is, wait till Thursday, watch the upcoming videos on GTA Series Videos channel and then come back and share your feedback and thoughts about it.

 

Granted, I think the anti-Rockstar Games sentiment isn't entirely unjustified with how strained the relationship with the community has been (modding takedowns, GTA V E&E, lack of any meaningful single player content, etc.) and the lack of communication from their part, but we definitely have to separate some of those things from the remasters (like E&E, which is irrelevant in this case).

 

But that's kind of the way it is; we have a crowd of people who are determined to hate the product unto death. Even explaining things from a developer perspective gets the retort of "well they're still lazy and this is just a cashgrab!". I'm not going to defend Rockstar's intentions, but as you point out, these games are effectively being redone on a much newer engine. You can't magically convert the game and it's done.

 

A great example of this in the modding community is IV:SA RAGE - the process to make that mod was an utter sh*tshow to just convert the map with nothing else to GTA IV, it was a very difficult task for a small non-professional team, Grove Street Games have to do three entire games on an even newer engine.

[UncleRico69]

2 hours ago, Havi said:

...All I can say is, wait till Thursday, watch the upcoming videos on GTA Series Videos channel and then come back and share your feedback and thoughts about it.

 

44 minutes ago, CynicalMexican said:

....A great example of this in the modding community is IV:SA RAGE - the process to make that mod was an utter sh*tshow to just convert the map with nothing else to GTA IV, it was a very difficult task for a small non-professional team, Grove Street Games have to do three entire games on an even newer engine.

 

Hi guys. I don't believe the OP is trying to flame or hate on Rockstar Games OR the upcoming trilogy. I believe his post is focusing on the differences that exist between PS2 and PC versions of San Andreas. It is a fact that the versions differ in some some aspects. I commend the OP to bringing this to light and starting a thread so we can discuss this more.

 

Instead of criticizing the author of the post lets criticize his argument. Is is true that the PS2 and PC versions differ? If it is true that the remaster is based on the PC port, do you agree with the differences he has mentioned? Lets do some research on the two versions and search for the facts and then analyze the trailer for clues here. Then we may discuss what possible impacts this all will have on the definitive edition.

 

I like to think that, outside of obvious trolls, we're all just a bunch of gamers intrigued about this definitive edition. So much intrigued that we're willing to shoot the breeze on a forum in a way to pass the time until Thursday. 

[DarkLink1308]

5 hours ago, Havi said:

I'm not so sure if you are familiar with game development but if you do, please clarify to me how you think a game that was made in the early 2000's can suddenly smoothly run on a brand new engine which these games never have been introduced to before with new character models, new systems without any bugs. It's a literal snowball effect. You change up the entire model and things tend to break. They are not gonna cherry pick each individual issue and spend hours and hours fixing them.

You're right, this definitely happens when upgrading an old game. But these issues were introduced since the original Xbox port and became worse on the PC port. These ports were released since 2005, they haven't made any major upgrades on these ports compared to the PS2 version. The reason they used the PC port as the basis for The Definitive Edition is certainly the laziness and cheapness because it must surely be easier to port a game developed for PC to current platforms compared to a game developed for a sixth generation console at the time that video games had their architecture less similar to the architecture of PCs. The example of a good remaster is Resident Evil 4 which uses the gamecube version as a base and adds the exclusive contents of the PS2 version. Imagine if they had used the old PC version from 2007 as the basis for this remaster to facilitate development and make production cheaper, the result would have been bad, and that's what Rockstar has been doing since forever with the GTA franchise.

 

5 hours ago, Havi said:

And the fact that you created your forum account and had to mention that "I don't want to be a hater" says enough. You didn't had to state that if you were fact checking and speaking the truth.

If I didn't write this yet probably you would still call me anti-Rockstar, at least I tried.

 

5 hours ago, Havi said:

Conclusion. The upcoming Definitive Edition is going to disappoint a lot of people who are saying "The game doesn't feel like the original anymore." yet they request new features such as swimming in GTA 3. I still can't wrap my head around that one. These 3 games are dramatically changed but still remain the original concept of the game but it looks like some people can't understand that.

Wait, is it wrong to reject downgrades and demand improvements to the "definitive version" for this $60 game pack?

 

5 hours ago, Havi said:

Just a little tired of people coming in and hopping onto the Anti Rockstar Games bandwagon. 

 

All I can say is, wait till Thursday, watch the upcoming videos on GTA Series Videos channel and then come back and share your feedback and thoughts about it.

As I said, I love Rockstar games but it is a fact that Rockstar always manages to make their games worse in newer versions. When it comes to developing new versions of their old games, their quality standards drop a lot. It would be nice if they kept the same quality standard they had to develop the first version of their games. Even in more current versions of their games like GTA V for PS4, XONE and PC it is possible to notice that the explosions have suffered downgrades compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions and some objects that were previously breakable on PS3 and Xbox 360 are no longer breakable on PS4, XONE and PC. With the trailer for the PS5 version of GTA V it is possible to notice more new bugs introduced to the game like Lester's double chair and it is also possible to notice the removal of objects in the room where Lester is compared to current and old versions of GTA V.

 

GTA IV is also a game that on PC has numerous bugs and downgrades. If one day this game is getting remastered I'm sure they will use the PC version as a base without fixing these existing bugs and downgrades. That's what they've been doing forever.

 

The best way to play Rockstar games is to play the first version of the games, and that is very wrong. The most current version should improve the first versions and not get worse.

Edited November 9, 2021 by DarkLink1308

[zanesix]

honestly all I care about are the extra SA venturas props and countryside vehicle spawns from the PS2 map. If they ported those over into DE I will know they at least put in some attention to versions other than PC.

[Valiant ENT CEO]

Without knowing anything about Unreal Engine and coupled with the fact we've basically seen jack sh*t.... I'm going to say the biggest mistake is not using Rage mechanics. Whatever they used to make GTAIV with. I just have this feeling the game is going to be super "clunky" 

 

That being said I'll just pretend for the mean time no mistakes have been made. Like a kid who acted bad all year but still gets a Christmas gift. Ya know yah done f*cked up Rockstar! LoL

[The Artist]

11 minutes ago, Valiant ENT CEO said:

Without knowing anything about Unreal Engine and coupled with the fact we've basically seen jack sh*t.... I'm going to say the biggest mistake is not using Rage mechanics. Whatever they used to make GTAIV with. I just have this feeling the game is going to be super "clunky" 

 

That being said I'll just pretend for the mean time no mistakes have been made. Like a kid who acted bad all year but still gets a Christmas gift. Ya know yah done f*cked up Rockstar! LoL

They are using Unreal Engine because it's easier to make a mobile version out of it....while RAGE can't be ported to mobile easily.

[DODI3OG]

6 minutes ago, StuntMaster100 said:

They are using Unreal Engine because it's easier to make a mobile version out of it....while RAGE can't be ported to mobile easily.

So, that's why we haven't got a mobile port for GTA IV yet.

[LotusRIP]

Well that's just like your opinion dude

[JumpingKentFlash]

Didn’t Wardrum Studios also do the previous upscaled remasters?

[Gravarty]

Yes, you're right. GTA SA on PC in particular is a mess. It lost so many great details and features. Since i'm not going to list every single detail changed in this version, you can watch this video instead:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Gravarty

[cuban gang member]

3 hours ago, StuntMaster100 said:

They are using Unreal Engine because it's easier to make a mobile version out of it....while RAGE can't be ported to mobile easily.

Switch too

 

One of the reasons for not making the game with rage is that they want to release more games for switch and rage is not compatible yet.

[CynicalMexican]

6 hours ago, Gravarty said:

Yes, you're right. GTA SA on PC in particular is a mess. It lost so many great details and features. Since i'm not going to list every single detail changed in this version, you can watch this video instead:

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, I'm hoping they've added more props from scratch so the maps feel more "alive"

[DarkLink1308]

10 hours ago, Gravarty said:

Yes, you're right. GTA SA on PC in particular is a mess. It lost so many great details and features. Since i'm not going to list every single detail changed in this version, you can watch this video instead:

 

 

 

 

These videos show a few more things that the Vadim M channel videos don't. It's a shame that all these bugs and downgrades will be inherited to The Definitive Edition.

[DarkLink1308]

I was wrong, they use the mobile port as a base LMAO

The same bugs and downgrades of the mobile port are back in The Definitive Edition

Edited November 10, 2021 by DarkLink1308

[zanesix]

In hindsight this thread is truly prophetical. Deserves a hall of fame award.

[lol232]

I disagree. I think that the base version for GTA III and Vice City should have been the original XBOX versions. These two, even had ironically, more realistic character models than the definitive edition. But they had a lot more assets in comparison to the PS2 version and the city already felt more detailed, and since they're already remastering it might as well start with the most superior version for that.

 

As for GTA SA, it's a mixed bag because the textures, sunlight and foliage on the map would globally change anyway so it doesn't matter, GTA SA on XBOX actually had some things that PS2 had that PC didn't have, it didn't have as much missing assets. Though, it did miss a few ones that PS2 had, but then again it also had some that PS2 didn't have. PS2 would ultimately be a bit better base to work on, just also add some extra details XBOX had.

Edited November 11, 2021 by lol232

[KB24]

Rockstar devs are a bunch of greedy nerds. Dudes rake in so much money but won't put in max effort for this trilogy. Nobody wanted a trash ass remaster or butchered radio stations. And we're getting gta 5 again! oh man such great fan service.

[A8ul99]

I don't know what to say, really. I'm utterly speechless with the bugs and glitches that riddles the whole trilogy. What is amazing is that casuals would actually prefer this buggy-a** version over the original trilogy because muh graphics and v-style gameplay, of course. The crashes in the new trilogy are plain unavoidable and it's just ridiculous.

R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S

Edited November 11, 2021 by A8ul99

[MrBreak16]

Can someone help me to emulate original versions on my laptop 

[Jabalous]

The real mistake is making a DeFiNiTiVe EdItIoN in the first place. As per Zelnick, it's purely a business decision (as it should be), but for me as a player, the original games are the definitive editions. Part of the magic of the original games was that they were designed around a limited hardware. For example, the limited draw distance in SA is part of the magic and the new version has removed that and it looks weird now.

[Donald Lov]

5 hours ago, KB24 said:

Rockstar devs are a bunch of greedy nerds. Dudes rake in so much money but won't put in max effort for this trilogy. Nobody wanted a trash ass remaster or butchered radio stations. And we're getting gta 5 again! oh man such great fan service.

They couldn't give a rat's ass about it. Rockstar needed something to keep shareholders and consumers relatively happy as the complaints and outrage regarding GTA VI development time had  spread all over. I don't think they will stop with this. Remasters of RDR and, perhaps, GTA IV may very well have already been conceived. Not sure about the latter as Rockstar shows little to no interest in supporting IV, but RDR seems very plausible. Maybe with Dundee on board, the games would be redone in a respectful, professional way. After all, why otherwise bother acquiring an entire studio specializing in Remastering?

[lefantome]

The real mistake was picking GSG as main developers.

Edited November 11, 2021 by lefantome

[El Dorado]

it's not even based on the pc port, it's based on the mobile one

 

so it's all pc issues + the new ones mobile introduced

[lol232]

57 minutes ago, El Dorado said:

it's not even based on the pc port, it's based on the mobile one

 

so it's all pc issues + the new ones mobile introduced

It's based on a sh*tty port which by itself was based on a sh*tty port.

Edited November 11, 2021 by lol232

[VCPR]

4 hours ago, lefantome said:

The real mistake was picking GSG as main developers.

 

1 hour ago, El Dorado said:

it's not even based on the pc port, it's based on the mobile one

 

so it's all pc issues + the new ones mobile introduced

and that's R* fault; they made their bed, now they gonna lay in it

[Mister Pink]

Maybe Rockstar/GSG can take a leaf out of Bethesda's book and hire some GTA modders, people passionate about improving the game in the best way possible, instead of criminalising them. 

[lefantome]

25 minutes ago, VCPR Official said:

 

and that's R* fault; they made their bed, now they gonna lay in it

their bed mattress is made out of banknotes and we are going to have to play a sh*tty game