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A remastered Rise FM


RVDG
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Considering that for the 10th anniversary edition Rise was the only radio not to get a remaster, do you think that after 20 years we will finally see a proper remaster of the original GTA III Rise FM radio?

As an owner of all the vinyls from the Generation Records label, I'd love to hear a proper digital quality mix of Rise.

 

What do you think?

Edited by RVDG
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Just some I hope they add (Oops misread the title game FM)

 

Slam - Onyx

No Fear O.G.C.

We in there - Boogie down productions

Blow your mind - Redman

Craig mack - flava in ya ear

DWYCK - Gang Starr

Edited by super_slav
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would love to see a remastered rise fm in audio quality at least (best station in gta3), maybe even add the rest of the generation records songs that didnt make it on rise...

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They didn’t bother improving the audio quality for Rise FM.

 

….so they changed it to Rise AM. 😂

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On 10/26/2021 at 12:51 PM, RVDG said:

Considering that for the 10th anniversary edition Rise was the only radio not to get a remaster, do you think that after 20 years we will finally see a proper remaster of the original GTA III Rise FM radio?

As an owner of all the vinyls from the Generation Records label, I'd love to hear a proper digital quality mix of Rise.

 

What do you think?

 

I was looking forward to higher quality audio as well. Got my hopes up when I saw the space requirements for DE leaked. Considering Lazlow still owns the master tapes I'm not sure why he didn't send some copies over. Although he doesn't work with Rockstar anymore. That would be the main reason.

 

How much did you pay for Generation disco? I'm aware those records shot up in value after RISE and are quite rare now.

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On 10/26/2021 at 7:51 PM, RVDG said:

Considering that for the 10th anniversary edition Rise was the only radio not to get a remaster,

I'm not quite sure but I think GTA 3 radios never got remastered. You think that the 10th anniversary edition radios were any different from the PC version ones? No, even worse, they were converted to 128kbps mp3s

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From what I heard (on headphones), all of the DE versions have remastered audio including radio stations. They're not strictly speaking CD quality (maybe also due to the way they were originally mixed in studio) but they sound like 44.1K files, apparently encoded in OGG format at an unknown bitrate.

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2 hours ago, DEALUX said:

From what I heard (on headphones), all of the DE versions have remastered audio including radio stations. They're not strictly speaking CD quality (maybe also due to the way they were originally mixed in studio) but they sound like 44.1K files, apparently encoded in OGG format at an unknown bitrate.

This is a chunk of MSX FM exported by me - not even close :D Still the very same quality
msx.png

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2 hours ago, DEALUX said:

From what I heard (on headphones), all of the DE versions have remastered audio including radio stations. They're not strictly speaking CD quality (maybe also due to the way they were originally mixed in studio) but they sound like 44.1K files, apparently encoded in OGG format at an unknown bitrate.

Only Vice City and San Andreas got new radio transfers, GTA3 was stuck with PC Audio converted again.

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8 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

Only Vice City and San Andreas got new radio transfers, GTA3 was stuck with PC Audio converted again.

Eactly. And the screenshot I posted above proves it

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My ears deceive me. I think they might have remixed the radio stations or something. They sound less offensive (i.e. compressed) to me.

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2 hours ago, DEALUX said:

My ears deceive me. I think they might have remixed the radio stations or something. They sound less offensive (i.e. compressed) to me.

Maybe it has something to do with the new audio driver

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/26/2021 at 7:51 PM, RVDG said:

Considering that for the 10th anniversary edition Rise was the only radio not to get a remaster, do you think that after 20 years we will finally see a proper remaster of the original GTA III Rise FM radio?

As an owner of all the vinyls from the Generation Records label, I'd love to hear a proper digital quality mix of Rise.

 

What do you think?

Yeah, I was hoping the same thing but no miracles happened, sadly...so I just took the original .wav file (PC version owner here) and attempted to make a "remaster" on my own in FL Studio. It sounds a light-year better than the original :kekw:

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CynicalMexican

I've attempted to create an extended RISE FM on GTA 3: Definitive Edition but with limited success. I've already posted about my attempts on the modding megathread, lol. GSG really screwed up the way the radios work internally. They are spliced into six parts now and are read by a central file. I haven't cracked the process entirely.

 

Ah, I miss the days of one giant ass MP3 file...

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20 hours ago, CynicalMexican said:

I've attempted to create an extended RISE FM on GTA 3: Definitive Edition but with limited success. I've already posted about my attempts on the modding megathread, lol. GSG really screwed up the way the radios work internally. They are spliced into six parts now and are read by a central file. I haven't cracked the process entirely.

 

Ah, I miss the days of one giant ass MP3 file...

Some time ago I re-created the MSX FM mix with the original tunes and I can do the same with Rise FM since I got my hands on very good vinyl rips thanks to a fellow member her

 

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6 hours ago, stef_92 said:

Some time ago I re-created the MSX FM mix with the original tunes and I can do the same with Rise FM since I got my hands on very good vinyl rips thanks to a fellow member her

 

I remember, YEARS AGO you being annoyed at some songs on MSX because bars not matching or being off-beat or something, I didn't quite understand what you meant back then, and now I'm a musician too (different genre), so I'm curious what it was, but I don't quite remember exactly what annoyed you. Could you elaborate?

Edited by lol232
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15 hours ago, lol232 said:

I remember, YEARS AGO you being annoyed at some songs on MSX because bars not matching or being off-beat or something, I didn't quite understand what you meant back then, and now I'm a musician too (different genre), so I'm curious what it was, but I don't quite remember exactly what annoyed you. Could you elaborate?

I'm surprised someone actually remembers it :D But no, it was about Rise FM (and I'm still mad about it). The tracks are really not mixed properly, like I explained, almost all transitions are a few bars off. MSX FM was mixed right and I managed to pull off almost the same mix with the same transitions and edits.

Edited by stef_92
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4 hours ago, stef_92 said:

I'm surprised someone actually remembers it :D But no, it was about Rise FM (and I'm still mad about it). The tracks are really not mixed properly, like I explained, almost all transitions are a few bars off. MSX FM was mixed right and I managed to pull off almost the same mix with the same transitions and edits.

Now I hear and I can't unhear it anymore. God damn it man. When you remix Rise FM fix the transitions, please.

 

Also, if I went to a DNB rave and someone just played the entire MSX FM set I'd be freaking the f*ck out.

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On 11/30/2021 at 3:29 PM, stef_92 said:

Some time ago I re-created the MSX FM mix with the original tunes and I can do the same with Rise FM since I got my hands on very good vinyl rips thanks to a fellow member her

 

this is great. If someone can download this and mod it in the DE that would be awesome, MC is so annoying

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On 12/1/2021 at 1:25 PM, stef_92 said:

The tracks are really not mixed properly, like I explained, almost all transitions are a few bars off.

I noticed this when I did a RISE FM remaster myself. I was using software and I had to disable snapping, manually mix in all the mistakes by ear. I basically had to take a copy of RISE and compare every millisecond on loop to re-create it how it was originally mixed. Also my software couldn't do the brake at the end so I let the last track just run out. I did the mix in 2013 and just never posted it anywhere until recently because I noticed someone else did the same thing, the same month, and published it before me and also did a way better job so I guess I felt kinda overshadowed.

The credits booklet says RISE was mixed by Terry Donovan, who was a skilled and established DJ already by the point the mix would have been recorded, unless this is a lie or the actual DJ was miscredited. My theory is he might have done the mix without headphones, or also possibly drunk.

To be honest I don't think RISE sounds that bad, it's burned into memory as it is and I'm fine with that. They're definitely using the crowd effects and voiceovers to hide the crimes however.

 

If you wanna hear what I did here it is

 

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Help, someone enlighten me :)))

What do y'all mean the mix for rise fm is wrongly done? I've been constantly listening to that mix for more than 10 years now and unfortunately, my ears can't tell me if something's wrong. It's as if the sound is engraved in my mind. Strangely enough, I mix trance, techno and house almost every week and still haven't noticed anything wrong with the mix on rise fm...So can anyone tell me word for word what's wrong? I'd appreciate that a lot!

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4 hours ago, EvilShadow said:

Help, someone enlighten me :)))

What do y'all mean the mix for rise fm is wrongly done? I've been constantly listening to that mix for more than 10 years now and unfortunately, my ears can't tell me if something's wrong. It's as if the sound is engraved in my mind. Strangely enough, I mix trance, techno and house almost every week and still haven't noticed anything wrong with the mix on rise fm...So can anyone tell me word for word what's wrong? I'd appreciate that a lot!

If you listen to the mix I recreated above there's some uniqueness with the transitions. I mirror copied the original mix. As you may already know all club music is 4/4 meaning four beats for every measure (also called a bar.) Clap your hands four times, 1-2-3-4, that's four beats, and that's end of the bar. Typically in trance music, you'll get a cymbal crash every 8 or 16 bars, sometimes even 32 bars. It very rarely deviates from this pattern since all club music originates from drum machines that could only do 4/4 time signatures, and that's what makes it easy to mix. Every beat always has a bass kick. 1-2-3-4. Your next 1 is your downbeat. Every 4 or 8 measures is a major downbeat. The mix starts there. Cymbals are usually used between bars to steady the tempo, and claps on even bars to stylize the groove.

 

In a basic DJ mix the bars and measures should always match. You want to match the major downbeats of the track leading-out with the track leading-in. You also want to make sure your cymbal crashes are lining up, since that's always the end of an even measure, 8/16/32. This is called measure-matching. There is also beat-matching where you make sure the beats are perfectly aligned. If you get two 'oomf's from a bass kick perfectly lined up they pretty much cancel each other out in the amplifier, if they're not perfectly aligned, you get 'ba/dum-ba/dum' kinds of sounds which is called trotting.

 

RISE FM is competent at neither of these principles.

 

Check out the video I embedded in my last post above and start from 19:14. Listen for the downbeat, you'll hear a cymbal crash and that's your 1 downbeat. Tap your finger on the table while counting out loud a continuous "1-2-3-4" to the bass beat. Keep counting and you'll notice a crash always lands on your 1. In this transition between Slyder's "Score" and "Neo (The One)" the cymbal for Neo leading-in always lands on the 4. This sounds awkward since typical club goers and electronic music enthusiasts always know where the cymbal should land, even without counting, because this is how club music is designed. This is also awkward since effects that land 2 & 4 and continuously land on 2 & 4 throughout the track are now instead mixing with 1 & 3 on the track leading-out. A great DJ mix will not allow you to realize where the transitions are starting and ending, the DJ has to hide these transitions and protect the flow of the vibe as much as possible. Being able to do this and make the crowd not notice, but rather enjoy the fact that the track has changed is a crucial skill level difference between beginners and professionals.

 

No comment on the rest of the transitions since I'm not a DJ and I don't really care to nitpick it; it's a decent mix. Sounds a bit awkward but it's charming. Still my personal favorite trance music mix. Let's not call it bad nor incompetent or amateur, let it just be simply 'creative differences.' I think for a lot of kids growing up this was their first exposure to club music period let alone trance music and I really respect these stations for giving that sort of influence and exposure to these types of music that were a lot less commonly popular in the west until after this game's release.

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17 hours ago, EvilShadow said:

Help, someone enlighten me :)))

What do y'all mean the mix for rise fm is wrongly done? I've been constantly listening to that mix for more than 10 years now and unfortunately, my ears can't tell me if something's wrong. It's as if the sound is engraved in my mind. Strangely enough, I mix trance, techno and house almost every week and still haven't noticed anything wrong with the mix on rise fm...So can anyone tell me word for word what's wrong? I'd appreciate that a lot!

I don't want to be harsh but how can you be DJing yourself and not notice these mistakes? It's just obvious how some of the transitions start a few bars (sometimes half bar) off. They are beatmatched, mixed in beat but not in phrase. Trance tracks usually have 8 or 16 bar phrases. So I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that, like @loseruser and @lol232 . Just like the last one said - once you hear it, you can never un-hear it :D

On 12/2/2021 at 3:11 AM, boomboom5950 said:

this is great. If someone can download this and mod it in the DE that would be awesome, MC is so annoying

I think there's a link in the description (if I didn't forget to add it) but you don't need it for that purpose - you can just get the original Moving Shadow 01.1 compilation and cut the 3 parts that were used in MSC FM.

@loseruser I don't know what you used for the mix but if you do a DJ mix with timecode vinyl, CDJs or even controller you can use the pitch control (in+/- 100% mode) to slow down the tempo until the track stops

Edited by stef_92
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17 hours ago, loseruser said:

If you listen to the mix I recreated above there's some uniqueness with the transitions. I mirror copied the original mix. As you may already know all club music is 4/4 meaning four beats for every measure (also called a bar.) Clap your hands four times, 1-2-3-4, that's four beats, and that's end of the bar. Typically in trance music, you'll get a cymbal crash every 8 or 16 bars, sometimes even 32 bars. It very rarely deviates from this pattern since all club music originates from drum machines that could only do 4/4 time signatures, and that's what makes it easy to mix. Every beat always has a bass kick. 1-2-3-4. Your next 1 is your downbeat. Every 4 or 8 measures is a major downbeat. The mix starts there. Cymbals are usually used between bars to steady the tempo, and claps on even bars to stylize the groove.

 

In a basic DJ mix the bars and measures should always match. You want to match the major downbeats of the track leading-out with the track leading-in. You also want to make sure your cymbal crashes are lining up, since that's always the end of an even measure, 8/16/32. This is called measure-matching. There is also beat-matching where you make sure the beats are perfectly aligned. If you get two 'oomf's from a bass kick perfectly lined up they pretty much cancel each other out in the amplifier, if they're not perfectly aligned, you get 'ba/dum-ba/dum' kinds of sounds which is called trotting.

 

RISE FM is competent at neither of these principles.

 

Check out the video I embedded in my last post above and start from 19:14. Listen for the downbeat, you'll hear a cymbal crash and that's your 1 downbeat. Tap your finger on the table while counting out loud a continuous "1-2-3-4" to the bass beat. Keep counting and you'll notice a crash always lands on your 1. In this transition between Slyder's "Score" and "Neo (The One)" the cymbal for Neo leading-in always lands on the 4. This sounds awkward since typical club goers and electronic music enthusiasts always know where the cymbal should land, even without counting, because this is how club music is designed. This is also awkward since effects that land 2 & 4 and continuously land on 2 & 4 throughout the track are now instead mixing with 1 & 3 on the track leading-out. A great DJ mix will not allow you to realize where the transitions are starting and ending, the DJ has to hide these transitions and protect the flow of the vibe as much as possible. Being able to do this and make the crowd not notice, but rather enjoy the fact that the track has changed is a crucial skill level difference between beginners and professionals.

 

No comment on the rest of the transitions since I'm not a DJ and I don't really care to nitpick it; it's a decent mix. Sounds a bit awkward but it's charming. Still my personal favorite trance music mix. Let's not call it bad nor incompetent or amateur, let it just be simply 'creative differences.' I think for a lot of kids growing up this was their first exposure to club music period let alone trance music and I really respect these stations for giving that sort of influence and exposure to these types of music that were a lot less commonly popular in the west until after this game's release.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write all this, I really appreciate that kind of effort, man.

What happens is that when I first listened to GTA 3's Rise FM mix again after years of having a break from gaming (which was super long ago), I was only 12 and knew absolutely nothing in detail about music, mixes and such. I was really happy and amazed to hear trance & techno again and naturally, I didn't really care about the way the mix was made. And I fell in love with that set. A couple of years after that, I started listening to electronic music radios in my country that would play DJ mixes (mainly deep house, tech and indie dance) and that's what actually got me into mixing and producing. The mixes I listened to were very methodical, very well organized, the 4-to-the-floor was obviously respected with each transition.

Then I started asking myself some questions about the mix on Rise FM, but the whole mix was already engraved in my mind (yeah, that's kinda hard to put into words), I had previously used to listen to it every single night for about a year or two (don't judge :kekw:). I noticed that crash in Slyder's "Neo" was strange but I was like "yeah, well maybe they wanted to be a bit different with this mix" so I just took it as a mix that stands out between the others. "Creative differences" is a great way to refer to that mix, you said it right.

Another thing; it could be an expalation to why the mix is like that: on Rise FM's page on GTA Wiki (in Spanish), it says the DJ on Rise FM, Andre the Accelerator, is dubbed "the accelerator" because of the way he mixes the songs, so when I read that, I thought that would be a reason why the trasitions are a few bars off, to maybe give the impression the mix is accelerated or something like that. In-game, he actually speeds up 3 songs to around 140 bpm, I guess that's why he's known as "the accelerator". Only Terry Donovan knows why the mix is like that, since he was the one to make it

 

5 hours ago, stef_92 said:

I don't want to be harsh but how can you be DJing yourself and not notice these mistakes? It's just obvious how some of the transitions start a few bars (sometimes half bar) off. They are beatmatched, mixed in beat but not in phrase. Trance tracks usually have 8 or 16 bar phrases. So I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that, like @loseruser and @lol232 . Just like the last one said - once you hear it, you can never un-hear it :D

Strange, I know...like I said above, the mix has been engraved in my mind for years now and when I heard it for the first time again many years ago (before I began mixing and stuff), I thought the transitions were like that for a reason and that was pretty much it. Back then, to my 12-year-old self, it was enough the mix was beatmatched. Part of the blame might be the fact that I was absolutely in love with this particular mix (again, hard to describe the way I loved it) for a very long time and that prevented me from realizing this mix is not perfect when it comes to the way it was made

Edited by EvilShadow
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What kind of ticks me off is that people say Rise is solely Trance. Imho Shake and Deep Time are not Trance... maybe Minimal Techno at best.

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18 minutes ago, Jeansowaty said:

What kind of ticks me off is that people say Rise is solely Trance. Imho Shake and Deep Time are not Trance... maybe Minimal Techno at best.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally!!! Thank you! 

"Shake" (original bpm Revolt Remix) is progressive house, while "Deep Time" (original bpm) is techno (maybe, maybe tech-trance) imo
 

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