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Why does the Trilogy Remaster use Unreal and not RAGE?


Smash Bandicoot
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Smash Bandicoot

I mean, it seems odd that rockstar would port the games to a 3rd party engine when they've been working on their own engine they've worked with for about a decade and a half, but maybe that's just me, lemme know whatcha think.

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A third party is doing this remaster 
Plus, likely easier to do multiplat this way
This thing is coming out on pretty much every possible platform

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13 minutes ago, StarJet905 said:

Since when did UE4 stop people from modding?

Gonna assume he meant that the devs will have locked the engine and prevented the game from being modded, and not that UE itself is incapable of being modded. It's entirely possible to do that, games like Dead by Daylight, Bioshock Infinite, XCom all use Unreal Engine but as far as I'm concerned those game either aren't moddable or have extremely limited modding capabilities for whatever reason. Anyhow, I doubt R* will allow this trilogy to be moddable the same way RAGE has been the past 10 or so years.

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beatlemnkyhuman

The game will be completely moddable I'd guess. I don't see a reason why rockstar would change its stance on modding. GTA v was and is modable and the trilogy was modable. They only starting suing because they were releasing this trilogy...once they make their money they may allow the mods and maybe even put the originals for sale again. It's just a business move, clearly. 

 

As to why they changed it to unreal instead of their own engine - the word on the internet is they just took the old PS2 assets and dumped all in unreal. Unreal took those assets and made them available for modern programming...they then went and fixed all the assets. 

 

To put it in layman's:

 

If they used rage they'd have to make whole game over again.

 

Using unreal allowed them to just throw a tree or scene in the engine, then fix it up using the engine.

 

It was more convenient. 

 

There's probably another team working on GTA 6 and this was done by its own team.

 

There I did my nerd part now let's wait for the cool trailer showing off how you can play pool or arcades or go to the gym or the clubs or whatever in these games.

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They chose UE4 because its easier to port and they can make the games available on more platforms (phones and tablets).

 

As far as mods are concerned, what engine the game is running on is completely irrelevant in terms of moddablity. Encryption and how much the community wants to mod this game will determine if its moddable. Rockstar did not give us tools for RAGE and they won't be giving us any tools for these remasters. That means all modding tools will have to be community created from scratch via reverse engineering which takes time.

 

Given recent events where T2 has attacked the modding community, there may not be sufficient interest from key members of the community to create tools for these games. Keep your expectations low and don't expect anything major like model export/import within the first year.

Edited by K0ol-G-R4P
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CynicalMexican

To add on to this, I think Unreal Engine is probably easier to use in terms of art direction.

 

Not to mention, HD Universe games exclusively use RAGE. Maybe that was a factor.

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15 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

I mean, it seems odd that rockstar would port the games to a 3rd party engine when they've been working on their own engine they've worked with for about a decade and a half, but maybe that's just me, lemme know whatcha think.

Because this project is lead by Grove Street Games (formerly War Drum Studios) and Rockstar Dundee (formerly Ruffian Games) and both have experience in working with UNREAL over RAGE. Simple.

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My point was that, because all of the games have a totally different coding basis now, none of the mods that have been made for them up to this point will work, and with the old games being pulled down from the market, people won't be able to buy the old ones just for the modding aspect.

 

Do you see a pattern emerging here, man?

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I'm not overly optimistic, but I really hope they make these editions easy to mod. Unreal Engine definitely has a lot of ready tools to use and it'd be crappy if they all went to waste.

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Easier to hire people with UE4 experience and get them up to speed much faster, easier to port the games to many platforms, support from Epic, etc etc. Overall its about making things more streamlined and get these remasters out the door asap.

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On 10/24/2021 at 1:38 PM, StarJet905 said:

Since when did UE4 stop people from modding?

Name one easily moddable modern unreal engine game that does NOT have its SDK released.

 

There's your answer. DE will likely be restricted to hex swaps meaning nothing more than simple texture replacements, and it will probably be like this for a very long time seeing as all of the actually talented people got scared off by lawsuits.

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6 minutes ago, zanesix said:

Name one easily moddable modern unreal engine game that does NOT have its SDK released.

 

There's your answer. DE will likely be restricted to hex swaps meaning nothing more than simple texture replacements, and it will probably be like this for a very long time seeing as all of the actually talented people got scared off by lawsuits.

Does Kingdom Hearts 3 count?

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Unreal Engine is much more easier to use and develop on, its easier to port games to all platforms, and you need to spend much much less time on optimization.

 

As for modding, it is possible, and judging by how big GTA modding community is, someone will make all the tools needed for easy modding.

 

Hell, even Frostbite engine got modding tools, and that engine is private to EA, and Unreal Engine is available to public, and there are some ways to mod the games, its just that none of the games that are using it arent that much popular when it comes to modding, and also games using it usually look great graphically, so not much to fix either way.

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It's probably the better engine for the project.

 

Evern wondered why it takes to R* all these years to make a game?

 

Maybe RAGE is nicer but harder to use and with an external company working on the remakes they picked the engine they were already experienced with.

 

Forgot to mention the most important thing: Unreal Engine supports all the platforms out of the box, there are no mobile, switch and next-gen games released with RAGE (yet)

Edited by lefantome
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the Unreal Engine is moddable. Won't be as moddable as the other GTA games. Not without an actual SDK. The most I guess we'll see are custom models and sounds.

 

Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order is on the unreal engine has a bunch mods, but a majority of them are models.

Edited by Tuskin38
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On 10/25/2021 at 12:53 AM, FWhyKay said:

Gonna assume he meant that the devs will have locked the engine and prevented the game from being modded, and not that UE itself is incapable of being modded. It's entirely possible to do that, games like Dead by Daylight, Bioshock Infinite, XCom all use Unreal Engine but as far as I'm concerned those game either aren't moddable or have extremely limited modding capabilities for whatever reason. Anyhow, I doubt R* will allow this trilogy to be moddable the same way RAGE has been the past 10 or so years.

Unreal is pretty much moddable. I've seen plenty of workshop mods for Hatred, a game running on Unreal Engine 4.

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1 hour ago, Panzermann11 said:

Unreal is pretty much moddable. I've seen plenty of workshop mods for Hatred, a game running on Unreal Engine 4.

But a Dev can lock the files, put in measures to make the files difficult to access, etc. With the stance Take-Two have took the past year you can pretty much guarantee this will be locked up tight.

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Also, Hatred has a full SDK released for it and their devs actively encourage modding. It even has Steam Workshop support! Totally different ballpark.

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On 10/24/2021 at 8:22 PM, beatlemnkyhuman said:

The game will be completely moddable I'd guess. I don't see a reason why rockstar would change its stance on modding. GTA v was and is modable and the trilogy was modable. They only starting suing because they were releasing this trilogy...once they make their money they may allow the mods and maybe even put the originals for sale again. It's just a business move, clearly.

You must not have been paying attention to the modding community over the last 7 years or so...

 

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/gta-v-fivem-modder-received-private-investigators-forcing-him-to-shut-down-his-project/

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/gta-modding-tool-openiv-shuts-down-claiming-cease-and-desist-from-take-two/

 

https://torrentfreak.com/take-two-files-copyright-suit-to-kill-red-dead-redemption-damned-enhancement-project-191228/

 

Three separate examples are listed above.

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beatlemnkyhuman
3 hours ago, Wakka387 said:

 

 

Literally all of those would stop rockstar from making money.

 

Taketwo is the bad cop to rockstar good cop but it's obvious.

 

All those cease and desist came from GTA online and the third is a f*cking rediculous mod that would let you play a game on PC that wasn't on PC.

 

They don't want mods on GTA online because they charge money for shark cards.

 

They don't want a free game on PC bc they want to charge money for the PC.

 

Stop being a baby.

 

Grow up.

 

I get beans I make food. I have no beans I have no food. Man or woman with most beans is leader.

 

So it has been so it will always be.

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3 minutes ago, beatlemnkyhuman said:

I get beans I make food. I have no beans I have no food. Man or woman with most beans is leader.

 

So it has been so it will always be.

take your meds

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21 minutes ago, beatlemnkyhuman said:

 

Stop being a baby.

 

Grow up.

It's a shame consumer rights laws think a little differently to corporation fanboyism.

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beatlemnkyhuman
1 hour ago, zanesix said:

take your meds

I have and that's a logical fallacy and illogical because you're attacking me as a person and not my argument.

 

42 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

It's a shame consumer rights laws think a little differently to corporation fanboyism.

 

Good luck suing rockstar. The only argument that can ever be made is mental anguish from trolls online but that's probably dealt with in the online documents you accept before playing.

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14 minutes ago, beatlemnkyhuman said:

Good luck suing rockstar. The only argument that can ever be made is mental anguish from trolls online but that's probably dealt with in the online documents you accept before playing.

No need to sue Rockstar, they're suing us! 😂

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beatlemnkyhuman
10 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

No need to sue Rockstar, they're suing us! 😂

 

 

If you make money off their property then yeah, I mean it makes sense

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1 minute ago, beatlemnkyhuman said:

 

 

If you make money off their property then yeah, I mean it makes sense

No one was making money off their property though?

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