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San Andreas Definitive Edition Analysis & Comparisons Topic


Spider-Vice
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21 minutes ago, Lucas wester said:

first thing im doing is getting CJ really fat 

CJ isn't fat ,he just big boned

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41 minutes ago, Anda7x1 said:

CJ isn't fat ,he just big boned

 

CJ isn't big boned just better visible from far distance 

  • KEKW 2
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Hmmm, i wonder if they've still kept that heat haze effect in SA.

Edited by DEADWOODZ
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MrGTAmodsgerman

Here is the list of the huge artistic fails which disappointed me once i saw the footage the first time. Rockstar Games is known for higher quality standards. That is shamefull if they keep it for November release.

But how about looking at it yourself?

 

South California plants in iconic South Florida areas:

Spoiler

7vJUJKU.png

Ocean Drive main character is dominated by coconut palm trees. The most known tropical palm tree when you think about a tropical area. Instead of remakeing the coconuts, they decided to use a edited version from they GTA V and RDR2 assets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_Grove

For GTA San Andreas setting, its todally fine, but what makes a different area different? Right, the environment. A tropical one. Think about RDR 2 map with they different areas and different plants. It attacks the vibe. I hope they fix it for the release (Which is very close)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut

 

0E1Tr1J.png

Plants at this area except the already mentioned one, seems to be right. Inconsistant art.

Model problems

Spoiler

The following issues shows problems with the shadeing of the models. This extreemly look like normal issues might caused by some unwelded vertices which only takes about 5 minutes to fix by welding the vertices or in other problem case, adding support loops to the polygon mesh.

Explaination:

Spoiler

Polygon meshes work in they way that any flat surface will be rendered as smooth surface. Once a hard edge appears (like a cut for ex.) the light gets cut and tells the shader to render it like that. Hard edges can be defined by smoothing groups which are basicly a surface smoothness scala you can set on any polygon. It technically changes each normals orientation. Normals are like arrows that tells the rendering engine in which direction the current rendering surface is faceing to (the angle). If some of the vertices are not connected to each other, the game starts to think that its an hard edge and a dark shadow appears (which you can see down here).

But this problem can also appear if you connect one edge too close to the other one. So both edges get rendered as one edge. Which creates a liniar shadow from one edge to the other (normals issue). This can be fixed by adding support loops which are basicly one more polygon which devides these two edges from the other one. So the devideing edge is the middle of the surface. In other words: More polygons needed for better lightning.

 

i1XMlRf.png

lfrJBZT.png

sE0Huj4.png

Another normals problem highlighted by the lightning.

4UMp5PL.png

This could be some UV map issue or unwelded vertices. Very simple things. We talking about a port here were models got remade at some point.

lnlSHma.png

Real time light rendering doesn't like low poly models. It needs support loops or some topology adjustments to get rid of it. Not fancy problems. There are 3ds Max scripts which can fix these with just one button.

hG6pThM.png

Here you can even see it if you don't know about modeling. Once you saw it, you can't unsee it.

Looks like vertices that needs to get welded.

 

waeIU2m.png

 

Ok where to start? UV problems obviously on the lamppost, but look at the Savanna livery. Its distorted where the normals issue is. Welding the vertices could fix both at once. But they don't seem to feel ashamed to show this so much.

 

GmgUo7G.png

The back wall shows a dirt decal (cool attempt btw) which is todally out of place. Should be right placed down to CJ feets wall corner covering the edge between wall and ground like in modern RAGE engine based assets (take a look at GTA V buildings for ex.)

Shoulder looks a bit distorted. Problem with the morph system or more intentional?

I hope we won't see any of these issues on release date. It currently looks really like an beta stage map mod for GTA SA and Vice City.

GTA 3 so far came out best due to its limited amount of screenshots and gameplay scenes.

But showing all this after the E&E disaster is really really bothering me. These are old games, i know, but they have touched the models so they can fix it. Or more likely must fix it. As modern lighting makes all the low polygons look real ugly. I don't understand why we see some very hard orginal edgy corners on the terrain/roads and at some places, smoothed roads and terrain. I want consitant art. The same goes to the plants. Tropical plants please so we get the flavour of South Florida. Otherwise i can stick with old map mods they decided to ban, because modders would even able to fix these issues. Come on guys. Don't take my last hope. I am a long time supporter/fan for Rockstar Games. And if they really had DMA heads in this project, i expect the same amount of research and love, they gived the games in the first place back when they was new.

Edited by MrGTAmodsgerman
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Are we really going to dive into pre-release issues? It's not even out yet. Give it until the release date. For all we know (which has been proven) that some shots in the trailer most likely come from older builds of the game.

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MrGTAmodsgerman
2 minutes ago, VideoTech said:

Are we really going to dive into pre-release issues? It's not even out yet. Give it until the release date. For all we know (which has been proven) that some shots in the trailer most likely come from older builds of the game.

Who have proven what? The trailer and screenshots are old?

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1 minute ago, MrGTAmodsgerman said:

Who have proven what? The trailer and screenshots are old?

Yes. Apparently some grass was visible in one of the trailer shots and Tommy is kind of fixed in a screenshot on the Rockstar website. 

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MrGTAmodsgerman
7 minutes ago, VideoTech said:

Yes. Apparently some grass was visible in one of the trailer shots and Tommy is kind of fixed in a screenshot on the Rockstar website. 

Who said that? And how old? Link?

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Just now, MrGTAmodsgerman said:

Who said that? And how old? Link?

Only one shot has visible grass.

 

oCByAOD.png

 

Then here we have Tommy's shirt now fixed.

 

3426d99a9ce4a3c66c5f.jpg

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5cc492af48e9cd99e6e598951c4ef032829e74fe

 

nHHrGEp.jpg

 

tried again with another screenshot with modded timecyc, without fog

 

failed so hard to recreate the colors but no one's perfect right

 

at least it's in 4k (tm)

 

technical details - they likely using 70 fov, that's I used with aap's debug camera and it's a pretty good match

 

also the sunrise position has been changed to the right a bit

Edited by El Dorado
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MrGTAmodsgerman
5 minutes ago, VideoTech said:

Only one shot has visible grass.

 

oCByAOD.png

 

Then here we have Tommy's shirt now fixed.

 

3426d99a9ce4a3c66c5f.jpg

I was meaning, who said its old. WHO. Not WHAT exactly.

Like if you say that the footage we saw is not what we get with the release (which is very close), how old is the footage and who is saying that is old. I want the link to the source where you got it from.

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21 minutes ago, El Dorado said:

5cc492af48e9cd99e6e598951c4ef032829e74fe

 

nHHrGEp.jpg

 

tried again with another screenshot with modded timecyc, without fog

 

failed so hard to recreate the colors but no one's perfect right

 

at least it's in 4k (tm)

 

technical details - they likely using 70 fov, that's I used with aap's debug camera and it's a pretty good match

 

also the sunrise position has been changed to the right a bit

Rockstar did a good job with the lighting. You tried well but couldn't really do it without shaders, I guess.

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Chocola Minaduki
48 minutes ago, VideoTech said:

Are we really going to dive into pre-release issues? It's not even out yet. Give it until the release date. For all we know (which has been proven) that some shots in the trailer most likely come from older builds of the game.

TBH Rockstar was trying to capture the original vibe in a modern way, which they did wonderfully. the original games didn't have all these things with modern GTA titles, to add all this instanced grass, completely remodeled terrain, etc, that some select people want would be unrealistic for the vibe and art style of the original game, the original game were always cartoony, never hyper realistic. 

It pisses me off when people say R* is sh*t cause they didn't make it the way they wanted it. reminds me of a line in Chatterbox FM in GTA "Kids these day are all about me, me, me"

People who are stating modders could make the game look better, well sure on PC maybe, but what about the causal gamers on Switch, PlayStation, and Xbox, pretty sure they can't run ENB on those, sure they can run re3, reVC, but again we are talking about causal gamers, unless they are in the modding scene they likely wouldn't even know how to do this (I'm pretty sure you need a hacked switch to even install this)

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MrGTAmodsgerman
4 minutes ago, Carl Johnson (JAL) said:

TBH Rockstar was trying to capture the original vibe in a modern way, which they did wonderfully. the original games didn't have all these things with modern GTA titles, to add all this instanced grass, completely remodeled terrain, etc, that some select people want would be unrealistic for the vibe and art style of the original game, the original game were always cartoony, never hyper realistic. 

It pisses me off when people say R* is sh*t cause they didn't make it the way they wanted it. reminds me of a line in Chatterbox FM in GTA "Kids these day are all about me, me, me"

People who are stating modders could make the game look better, well sure on PC maybe, but what about the causal gamers on Switch, PlayStation, and Xbox, pretty sure they can't run ENB on those, sure they can run re3, reVC, but again we are talking about causal gamers, unless they are in the modding scene they likely wouldn't even know how to do this (I'm pretty sure you need a hacked switch to even install this)

All they have to do is makeing a Rockstar Games stylized and quality product the fans of these old games are used to it. But if they don't deliver it, then it have nothing to do with "hyper realistic" expectations. My post above is pointed against the game because they made issues that they haven't done with the originals.

 

What i would be happy with...

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Chocola Minaduki
9 minutes ago, MrGTAmodsgerman said:

All they have to do is makeing a Rockstar Games stylized and quality product the fans of these old games are used to it. But if they don't deliver it, then it have nothing to do with "hyper realistic" expectations. My post above is pointed against the game because they made issues that they haven't done with the originals.

 

What i would be happy with...

Tho they did fix the controls, mission issues, we all want certain things, and that is what modding is for, to make it your own

Edited by Carl Johnson (JAL)
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BS_BlackScout

I think they still have time to fix the normals issue. Perhaps even the trees in Vice City but that requires a bit of an extra attention.
I've seen plenty of coconut trees irl myself (green coconut) ones and it is indeed weird to see LS/Cali type palms in VC/Miami.

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MrGTAmodsgerman
1 minute ago, Carl Johnson (JAL) said:

Tho they did fix the controls, mission issues, we all want certain things, and that is what modding is for, to make it your own

They hate modding. And then why should i buy it when i directly need to mod it to get my nostaglia trip? That doesn't sound logic to me. I mod games that i love. Not to make them to love.

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Chocola Minaduki
13 minutes ago, MrGTAmodsgerman said:

They hate modding. And then why should i buy it when i directly need to mod it to get my nostaglia trip? That doesn't sound logic to me. I mod games that i love. Not to make them to love.

The video you sent is too movie like anyway, it doesn't fit the vibe of the original, tho I completely fine how they did, it

Edited by Carl Johnson (JAL)
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MrGTAmodsgerman
11 minutes ago, Carl Johnson (JAL) said:

The video you sent is too movie like anyway, it doesn't fit the vibe of the original, tho I completely fine how they did, it

I was not meaning to make all of it like that fan made thing (impossible anyway) just the general idea of keeping the original classic vibe/look.

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BS_BlackScout
11 minutes ago, arisfelbonilla said:

go for every little thing they complain my God ._.

Who specifically? I'm just pointing out that it's likely there will be TAA. 

 

In fact, DLSS requires TAA since it uses temporal data to improve image quality. 

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BS_BlackScout
2 minutes ago, grandtheftauto1233 said:

Noticed an increase of polygons on the vehicles. Looks like maybe double count based on the wheel well and the edge of the light. 

https://imgur.com/a/PHrfdWY

 

I found this to be barely changed, if changed at all. The Sanchez in SA, VC and the lowrider screen have much better wheels. 

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On 10/22/2021 at 10:02 AM, kasa said:

It would be great if they added more gang members. Also for the families. I want to be able to recruit more then 3

????? You can recruit a total of 8 by the time you finish the game, you just can't drive them all, and they won't follow you in cars.

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BS_BlackScout
37 minutes ago, thalilmythos said:

????? You can recruit a total of 8 by the time you finish the game, you just can't drive them all, and they won't follow you in cars.

I guess they forgot to increase their Respect stat :kekw:

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DavidReyes2250
3 hours ago, MrGTAmodsgerman said:

Here is the list of the huge artistic fails which disappointed me once i saw the footage the first time. Rockstar Games is known for higher quality standards. That is shamefull if they keep it for November release.

But how about looking at it yourself?

 

South California plants in iconic South Florida areas:

  Hide contents

7vJUJKU.png

Ocean Drive main character is dominated by coconut palm trees. The most known tropical palm tree when you think about a tropical area. Instead of remakeing the coconuts, they decided to use a edited version from they GTA V and RDR2 assets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_Grove

For GTA San Andreas setting, its todally fine, but what makes a different area different? Right, the environment. A tropical one. Think about RDR 2 map with they different areas and different plants. It attacks the vibe. I hope they fix it for the release (Which is very close)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut

 

0E1Tr1J.png

Plants at this area except the already mentioned one, seems to be right. Inconsistant art.

Model problems

  Hide contents

The following issues shows problems with the shadeing of the models. This extreemly look like normal issues might caused by some unwelded vertices which only takes about 5 minutes to fix by welding the vertices or in other problem case, adding support loops to the polygon mesh.

Explaination:

  Reveal hidden contents

Polygon meshes work in they way that any flat surface will be rendered as smooth surface. Once a hard edge appears (like a cut for ex.) the light gets cut and tells the shader to render it like that. Hard edges can be defined by smoothing groups which are basicly a surface smoothness scala you can set on any polygon. It technically changes each normals orientation. Normals are like arrows that tells the rendering engine in which direction the current rendering surface is faceing to (the angle). If some of the vertices are not connected to each other, the game starts to think that its an hard edge and a dark shadow appears (which you can see down here).

But this problem can also appear if you connect one edge too close to the other one. So both edges get rendered as one edge. Which creates a liniar shadow from one edge to the other (normals issue). This can be fixed by adding support loops which are basicly one more polygon which devides these two edges from the other one. So the devideing edge is the middle of the surface. In other words: More polygons needed for better lightning.

 

i1XMlRf.png

lfrJBZT.png

sE0Huj4.png

Another normals problem highlighted by the lightning.

4UMp5PL.png

This could be some UV map issue or unwelded vertices. Very simple things. We talking about a port here were models got remade at some point.

lnlSHma.png

Real time light rendering doesn't like low poly models. It needs support loops or some topology adjustments to get rid of it. Not fancy problems. There are 3ds Max scripts which can fix these with just one button.

hG6pThM.png

Here you can even see it if you don't know about modeling. Once you saw it, you can't unsee it.

Looks like vertices that needs to get welded.

 

waeIU2m.png

 

Ok where to start? UV problems obviously on the lamppost, but look at the Savanna livery. Its distorted where the normals issue is. Welding the vertices could fix both at once. But they don't seem to feel ashamed to show this so much.

 

GmgUo7G.png

The back wall shows a dirt decal (cool attempt btw) which is todally out of place. Should be right placed down to CJ feets wall corner covering the edge between wall and ground like in modern RAGE engine based assets (take a look at GTA V buildings for ex.)

Shoulder looks a bit distorted. Problem with the morph system or more intentional?

I hope we won't see any of these issues on release date. It currently looks really like an beta stage map mod for GTA SA and Vice City.

GTA 3 so far came out best due to its limited amount of screenshots and gameplay scenes.

But showing all this after the E&E disaster is really really bothering me. These are old games, i know, but they have touched the models so they can fix it. Or more likely must fix it. As modern lighting makes all the low polygons look real ugly. I don't understand why we see some very hard orginal edgy corners on the terrain/roads and at some places, smoothed roads and terrain. I want consitant art. The same goes to the plants. Tropical plants please so we get the flavour of South Florida. Otherwise i can stick with old map mods they decided to ban, because modders would even able to fix these issues. Come on guys. Don't take my last hope. I am a long time supporter/fan for Rockstar Games. And if they really had DMA heads in this project, i expect the same amount of research and love, they gived the games in the first place back when they was new.

Yes you are good at finding errors in such small things xD
Seriously speaking, remember that nothing is perfect. So if you even get disappointed with a badly placed polygon, made, textured or whatever, the truth is that you are exaggerating.

  • Bruh 1
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MrGTAmodsgerman
22 minutes ago, DavidReyes2250 said:

Yes you are good at finding errors in such small things xD
Seriously speaking, remember that nothing is perfect. So if you even get disappointed with a badly placed polygon, made, textured or whatever, the truth is that you are exaggerating.

No, the truth is that Rockstar Games is a serious company and not a bunch of hobby modders trying to import models in Unreal Engine and keep it bugged because no experience in modeling. Its f*cking Rockstar Games and not Ubisoft. Go play Ubisoft games. But i am here with R* standards and R* expectations! I would be exaggerating, when i would complain about that is not looking like GTA 5 or something. I expect a polished game if this one here isn't supposed to be outsourced garbage. This can be fixed in just a few minutes. And if they keep it to release, then its okey? No. Because that would be lazyness and another sign of "we trying to milk any penny from just any piece of garbage" attetude. Which i don't want to see here.

Edited by MrGTAmodsgerman
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DavidReyes2250

I guess you're right. When they are released we will see how well they turned out, so in the meantime, good hopes. After all, hope is the last thing to be lost.


PS: it's not Ubisoft, it's Bugisoft xD

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On 10/22/2021 at 6:53 PM, BS_BlackScout said:

6PJGa6T.png

 

xhVEOvx.png

Added dishes, bottles, ashtrays. 3D Cabinet door handles. PBR materials for the stove on the left. No baked shadows. Unglued hands, remade characters.

CJ's shadow is bugged btw. Look closely.

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