How do I keep getting one-shot while defensive? redux

[KiloZulu]

My understanding is that defensive mode is supposed to reduce damage and accuracy to discourage/thwart griefing?  I've been repeatedly killed by other players that headshot me without provocation or warning.  Such players have most often used everyone's favorite, the carcano rifle, but I have also been killed by a revolver.  I am on PC.

 

Since Uncle Sikee Atric locked the previous post for lack of detail, I'm on PC, with a character level over 220+, and am religiously in defensive mode.  I routinely check my forum posts for legitimate answers to this question, and try to clarify when questions are asked.  I also like pina coladas and long walks in the rain.  If anyone needs further details regarding such a simple question, I appreciate that they ask for them rather than, I don't know, lock the forum post.  Thank you.

 

Also, please refrain from having minor disagreements about common phrases, as that is considered a flame war, apparently. 

[Direwrath]

I've had the same and it has been a thing since defensive mode came about. Have no idea how players do it really, but it's probably a mixture of things like the right card deck, manipulating the scripts in the game, etc. With you being on PC there are even more variables that can come into play, hackers love messing with the game on the PC.

 

When I talk to new players I make certain to warn them that defensive mode is not there to protect you from anything. I think of it as a blanket way of simply telling other players that you do not intend on interacting with them in a PVP sort of situation, kind of like how we used to carry our lanterns in the early days to make it known that we weren't intending any harm. I also warn them that trying to defend yourself while in defensive can be hard, as it really inhibits you as well.

The mode has it's faults and could be enhanced to actually give some protection without allowing a player to use it to god-mode others, but whether R* wants to do that is on them. 

 

It's probably best just to be wary of all other players even in defensive. I wished there was a better answer, really I do.

 

 

[CosmicBuffalo]

What ability cards do you use?

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

7 hours ago, KiloZulu said:

My understanding is that defensive mode is supposed to reduce damage and accuracy to discourage/thwart griefing?  I've been repeatedly killed by other players that headshot me without provocation or warning.  Such players have most often used everyone's favorite, the carcano rifle, but I have also been killed by a revolver.  I am on PC.

 

Since Uncle Sikee Atric locked the previous post for lack of detail, I'm on PC, with a character level over 220+, and am religiously in defensive mode.  I routinely check my forum posts for legitimate answers to this question, and try to clarify when questions are asked.  I also like pina coladas and long walks in the rain.  If anyone needs further details regarding such a simple question, I appreciate that they ask for them rather than, I don't know, lock the forum post.  Thank you.

 

Also, please refrain from having minor disagreements about common phrases, as that is considered a flame war, apparently. 

 

You could have stopped at 'I'm on PC, with a character level over 220+, and am religiously in defensive mode.'  The rest of the comment was a little unnecessary....

 

What you cannot see is the 'disagreement,' that erupted between the penultimate post, and the one which I used to lock the original post, because I hid all of it.  There's a further dozen posts that are hidden, to cover a three-way slanging-match that erupted on the thread, partly because of the lack of detail, but also because the three involved are attacking each other all the time and chose to do so because of the lack of detail, and it's happened several times on different threads.  You didn't need to see it and it so derailed the discussion I had to lock it to separate the participants.

 

I didn't lock it because of you, I locked it to protect the discussion and allow a restart, hopefully with less grief and need for toxicity as that wasn't a welcome addition.  Just be aware there's content you cannot see, or need to see.

[RyuNova]

As people have said; it could be a combination of high level cards, powerful weapons and possibly combined with explosive rounds.

[Lonely-Martin]

I feel you got your answers in the previous thread, and along with that you're on PC and there's plenty of issues with cheaters etc on the platform and R* don't do enough in general with balancing let alone help with a notoriously plagued platform like that, it's just poorly made/maintained. But @Direwrath's post above clarified everything well enough too.

 

Plus as the other 2 posters said, it could be the top trump cards you're using that helps others attack with such ease so give them a good check through.

 

Also, please accept my apologies for my part in the previous thread getting locked. I shouldn't have reacted so poorly and will be mindful not to in future.

[AmyStone]

14 hours ago, KiloZulu said:

My understanding is that defensive mode is supposed to reduce damage and accuracy to discourage/thwart griefing?  I've been repeatedly killed by other players that headshot me without provocation or warning.  Such players have most often used everyone's favorite, the carcano rifle, but I have also been killed by a revolver.  I am on PC.

 

Since Uncle Sikee Atric locked the previous post for lack of detail, I'm on PC, with a character level over 220+, and am religiously in defensive mode.  I routinely check my forum posts for legitimate answers to this question, and try to clarify when questions are asked.  I also like pina coladas and long walks in the rain.  If anyone needs further details regarding such a simple question, I appreciate that they ask for them rather than, I don't know, lock the forum post.  Thank you.

 

Also, please refrain from having minor disagreements about common phrases, as that is considered a flame war, apparently. 

 

Not trying to create an argument here but you haven't really asked a question apart from if defensive mode is supposed to discourage/thwart griefing. So I still don't think you have given enough detail in this second post. The answer to your only question is yes, but you probably knew that anyway.

 

I'm guessing what you really want to know is how to stop it. I don't think there are any guarantees. If someone wants to kill/grief you they will find a way. If it's not from a single shot it will be some other way. If you want to try to prevent single shot kills specifically then you should go for all defensive cards. Never Without One should stop a lot of headshot. Iron Lung is also a card that causes you to take less damage but won't defend against a good/lucky shot to the head.

[KiloZulu]

7 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

You could have stopped at 'I'm on PC, with a character level over 220+, and am religiously in defensive mode.'  The rest of the comment was a little unnecessary....

 

What you cannot see is the 'disagreement,' that erupted between the penultimate post, and the one which I used to lock the original post, because I hid all of it.  There's a further dozen posts that are hidden, to cover a three-way slanging-match that erupted on the thread, partly because of the lack of detail, but also because the three involved are attacking each other all the time and chose to do so because of the lack of detail, and it's happened several times on different threads.  You didn't need to see it and it so derailed the discussion I had to lock it to separate the participants.

 

I didn't lock it because of you, I locked it to protect the discussion and allow a restart, hopefully with less grief and need for toxicity as that wasn't a welcome addition.  Just be aware there's content you cannot see, or need to see.

Thank you for the additional context Uncle Sikee Atric.  In light of the additional information, I apologize for the snark in this post.

[KiloZulu]

So, does defensive mode work as planned?  Up until I started getting headshot so regularly, I had assumed that PVP players were given a large dispersion radius when they shot at defensive mode players.  I took a long break from the game out of frustration with the use of hacks by others, and only returned this summer.  I recall that my avatar would flinch away from shots fired in my direction back in the day, and it usually took several shots to kill me.  While it didn't stop someone who was intent on attacking a PVE player, it at least gave the defensive player an opportunity to seek cover, or the PVP player an opportunity to realize that their target wasn't hostile.  Have I just misunderstood what defensive mode does, or is it not living up to its intent?  Thanks again.

[AmyStone]

It's possible it has been tweaked. Recently I've noticed that SB seems to be more powerful that it was a while back. Who knows what they are fiddling with. What you should probably do is get a friend to try to headshot you with the Carcano while having the marksman card equipped and maybe explosive ammo. If they are unable to kill you then you have to assume it's a PC mod they are using. When you're playing on PC then pretty much anything is possible and also almost impossible to prevent it.

[CosmicBuffalo]

@KiloZulu as time goes on for PC, more and more mod menus find work arounds.  Any menus takendown will resurface via other names and other entities.  Basically, the protection that comes with every actual update begins to wane. 

 

You should never be one shot with a revolver or pistol even with explosive rounds.  Defensive mode is supposed to prevent instant headshots and it does on console.  There are a few setups with a shotgun that may kill you in one shot.  Also the dynamite bow should be a kill.  The chances that an actual headshot is occuring on a moving player in defensive is also very low.  Defensive players are pure free aim targets...meaning no aim assist.  Long story short, its mod menus.  Mod menus can give players instant head shots and one shot kills every time.

[UnexpectedParole]

It was/is my understading that Defensive mode only prevents others from locking on you, and you them.   If players are good enough to free aim the headshot , then they can do that without mods as well ?

 

This is similar to being in camp with the flag up.  That is supposed to prevent you from being attacked. But apparently if the player moves so they can't see the camp, just you. The can shoot you at will.

 

All of this talk about PC mods has me curious with a relevant question. Are the servers cross platform?  IE if op moved to a console, would that separate them from pc players ?

 

Never Without One is pretty much the anti headshot answer if that is your biggest problem .   I almost always run it ouside of Call of Arms or anti-griefing calls.  Taking that sniper shot to the head and losing my hat buys me time to scramble to my horse, put on another one and go. <sometimes>

 

The next answer is find some friends to call in when some-one does that.  Many snipers who prey on defensive mode players don't like having to deal with a sudden posse dropping in on them.

 

[CosmicBuffalo]

1 hour ago, UnexpectedParole said:

It was/is my understading that Defensive mode only prevents others from locking on you, and you them.   If players are good enough to free aim the headshot , then they can do that without mods as well ?

 

This is similar to being in camp with the flag up.  That is supposed to prevent you from being attacked. But apparently if the player moves so they can't see the camp, just you. The can shoot you at will.

 

All of this talk about PC mods has me curious with a relevant question. Are the servers cross platform?  IE if op moved to a console, would that separate them from pc players ?

 

Never Without One is pretty much the anti headshot answer if that is your biggest problem .   I almost always run it ouside of Call of Arms or anti-griefing calls.  Taking that sniper shot to the head and losing my hat buys me time to scramble to my horse, put on another one and go. <sometimes>

 

The next answer is find some friends to call in when some-one does that.  Many snipers who prey on defensive mode players don't like having to deal with a sudden posse dropping in on them.

 

There is no cross play in RDO and never will be between PC and consoles.  PC was described as a completely new game on its launch.  Defensive mode has head shot protection similar to slow and steady.  Head shots do more damage but they do not outright kill you on a perfect first shot.  Defensive also requires attacking players to use pure free aim...no aim assist.  Which is different than auto aim.  Aim assist helps with snipers or when you are using a scope.  Auto aim allows target locking by normally pressing in the left trigger.

Edited October 20, 2021 by CosmicBuffalo

[UnexpectedParole]

1 minute ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

There is no cross play in RDO and never will be between PC and consoles.  PC was described as a completely new game on its launch.  Defensive mode has head shot protection similar to slow and steady.  Head shots do more damage but they do not outright kill you on a perfect shot.  Defensive also requires attacking players to use pure free aim...no aim assist.  Which is different than auto aim.  Aim assist helps with snipers or when you are using a scope.  Auto aim allows target locking by normally pressing in the left trigger.

 

Thank you. That was very helpful. Now i am off to wonder why people are screaming about people modding the game in the lobbies I am in while playing ps4.....

[CosmicBuffalo]

5 minutes ago, UnexpectedParole said:

 

Thank you. That was very helpful. Now i am off to wonder why people are screaming about people modding the game in the lobbies I am in while playing ps4.....

Ps4 is still modder free as far as I know.

Edited October 20, 2021 by CosmicBuffalo

[CosmicBuffalo]

The second half of the video explains defensive perfectly

[KiloZulu]

Thanks for the responses.  I don't necessarily believe that all of the players that headshot me were using mods, but then I'm used to a lack of subtlety from hackers in the game.  Usually I just blow up or get attacked by a pride of lions.  Still, I've never used auto-aim personally, which makes me question the likelihood that someone could repeatedly one-shot a moving target at distance.  I can understand the first shot, when I'm just minding my own business and not even aware that someone is aiming at me.  Shooting me as soon as I respawn, and seeking cover, raises some suspicions. 

 

Only mildly related: I had a new griefing experience earlier today.  I recognized a PvP player was eyeing me up in Valentine, but I ducked into the stables before they could do anything.  When I left on my new horse a few minutes later, I found the player standing in front of the entrance.  I suspect that they were going to try to pull me from my horse, something new I discovered that PvP player can do to defensive players recently, so I kicked my horse into a gallup and rode off.  The player chased me, and I was surprised that she was able to get on a horse and keep me in view.  I did a juke that sent her over a small cliff, which was fun, but she managed to catch up again.  By this time, we were nearing Heartland Overflow when she got up beside me and threw dynamite at our feet.  Killed us both.  When I respawned, I found that my hostility level had increased, I had been turned offensive...and then I was dead from a Carcano rifle shot.  Since I was no longer defensive, I could not report the crime, so I just logged off.

[CosmicBuffalo]

2 minutes ago, KiloZulu said:

Thanks for the responses.  I don't necessarily believe that all of the players that headshot me were using mods, but then I'm used to a lack of subtlety from hackers in the game.  Usually I just blow up or get attacked by a pride of lions.  Still, I've never used auto-aim personally, which makes me question the likelihood that someone could repeatedly one-shot a moving target at distance.  I can understand the first shot, when I'm just minding my own business and not even aware that someone is aiming at me.  Shooting me as soon as I respawn, and seeking cover, raises some suspicions. 

 

Only mildly related: I had a new griefing experience earlier today.  I recognized a PvP player was eyeing me up in Valentine, but I ducked into the stables before they could do anything.  When I left on my new horse a few minutes later, I found the player standing in front of the entrance.  I suspect that they were going to try to pull me from my horse, something new I discovered that PvP player can do to defensive players recently, so I kicked my horse into a gallup and rode off.  The player chased me, and I was surprised that she was able to get on a horse and keep me in view.  I did a juke that sent her over a small cliff, which was fun, but she managed to catch up again.  By this time, we were nearing Heartland Overflow when she got up beside me and threw dynamite at our feet.  Killed us both.  When I respawned, I found that my hostility level had increased, I had been turned offensive...and then I was dead from a Carcano rifle shot.  Since I was no longer defensive, I could not report the crime, so I just logged off.

 One common tactic to force someone out of defensive on console is simply run into a defensive player with their horse.  Defensive mode is very over powered compared to other tactics against players.  You can easily kill 5 players by yourself.  So griefers will try to kick you out by running into you with their horses.  If the example you described had a horse collison involved, this may have been the cause.  The fact that they actually chased you is also some proof they may just be a normal griefer rather than a mod menu user.

[KiloZulu]

23 minutes ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

The second half of the video explains defensive perfectly

Thanks for that CosmicBuffalo.  I've always like PVPCat's videos, but I don't recall having seen that one.  What he shows hasn't been my experience, though.  I'm definitely getting killed with a single shot.  The primary culprit has been a Carcano, and I see that he only tested with a Springfield.  I don't know the difference in damage values off hand, but it still seems unlikely that the Carcano could do in one hit what the Springfield needs three to accomplish.  I always wear a cowboy hat, too, btw.

[UnexpectedParole]

1 hour ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

 One common tactic to force someone out of defensive on console is simply run into a defensive player with their horse.  Defensive mode is very over powered compared to other tactics against players.  You can easily kill 5 players by yourself.  So griefers will try to kick you out by running into you with their horses.  If the example you described had a horse collison involved, this may have been the cause.  The fact that they actually chased you is also some proof they may just be a normal griefer rather than a mod menu user.

 

That explains what happened to me the other day then.  I had fat travelled back to camp which was at the Overflow and there was a level 400 something just sitting on their horse in my camp with a gun out.  I was in defensive, so I wasn't too worried. Especially as there were like 4 deer to the east they might have been sizing up to take out. I just started to wander to the west and they followed.  I turned around and went back to camp, to consider my options and they followed.  I figured I was pretty much done for the day anyway, just needed a few samples.  Was able to sedate two oppossum from camp and walk out two them.  Not even part way through the first attempt at collecting the sample I had been run into by the horse 3 times..got the notice that I left defensive so I tried to grab for an area effect weapon (fire bottle) to try and catch them, but they got the headshot from the horse with a shotgun and near point blank range. Apparently just outside my camp.  None of my usual anti greifer friends online at that moment, so I just went ahead and logged off.   how sad does your life have to be at level 400 to spend it sitting in some-one's camp waiting for a level 298 to come back and grief them while they leave you alone?

 

@kiloZulu  if you were ps4 I would tell you to send me a friend invite on ps4 and I will introduce you to some folks that will have no issues helping you out. same id there as here. But i don't know anyone on pc. <yet>

Edited October 21, 2021 by UnexpectedParole
fixed spelling

[Direwrath]

12 hours ago, AmyStone said:

I'm guessing what you really want to know is how to stop it. I don't think there are any guarantees. If someone wants to kill/grief you they will find a way. If it's not from a single shot it will be some other way.

This sums it up best, if they really want to grief you they are going to find a way to do it. 

You just gotta be wary of other players, keep your tonics handy, equip some strong defensive cards, and hope for a good carefree game.

 

 

[kcole4001]

12 hours ago, UnexpectedParole said:

 

That explains what happened to me the other day then.  I had fat travelled back to camp which was at the Overflow and there was a level 400 something just sitting on their horse in my camp with a gun out.  I was in defensive, so I wasn't too worried. Especially as there were like 4 deer to the east they might have been sizing up to take out. I just started to wander to the west and they followed.  I turned around and went back to camp, to consider my options and they followed.  I figured I was pretty much done for the day anyway, just needed a few samples.  Was able to sedate two oppossum from camp and walk out two them.  Not even part way through the first attempt at collecting the sample I had been run into by the horse 3 times..got the notice that I left defensive so I tried to grab for an area effect weapon (fire bottle) to try and catch them, but they got the headshot from the horse with a shotgun and near point blank range. Apparently just outside my camp.  None of my usual anti greifer friends online at that moment, so I just went ahead and logged off.   how sad does your life have to be at level 400 to spend it sitting in some-one's camp waiting for a level 298 to come back and grief them while they leave you alone?

 

@kiloZulu  if you were ps4 I would tell you to send me a friend invite on ps4 and I will introduce you to some folks that will have no issues helping you out. same id there as here. But i don't know anyone on pc. <yet>

If you see an 'offensive' player inside your camp again this might be good for a laugh:

 

Wait until they're pretty close to Cripps and he has good line of sight to them, then slap the backside of their horse.

This will cause their horse to rear and throw them off and at the same time cause them to become 'hostile', so Cripps will earn his keep by very quickly killing the other player.

It will also force you into offensive mode and lower your camp flag, so you should probably switch sessions or if you're pretty much done for the day just close the game.

 

I had a goof throwing fire bottles around in my camp (which do nothing against defensive players) trying to goad me into attacking and becoming offensive so he could do whatever he planned, but when he got thrown Cripps wasted him almost instantly.

I switched sessions because this usually irritates those trying to force you into playing their idea of the game.

[Buddy Hightower]

There is absolutely no reason to ever be in defensive mode.

All is does is gimp you.

If you don't want to engage in PvP, then don't engage in PvP.

Simply parley and go on about your business.

If you are on PC, buy a console.

/end thread 

[CosmicBuffalo]

1 hour ago, Buddy Hightower said:

There is absolutely no reason to ever be in defensive mode.

All is does is gimp you.

If you don't want to engage in PvP, then don't engage in PvP.

Simply parley and go on about your business.

If you are on PC, buy a console.

/end thread 

No, it only gimps autoaimers that cannot use free aim. 

Spoiler

Defensive mode can be used against auto aimers in an offensive manner.  It prevents PIB abuse by posses.  You can easily take on 5 people solo.  Even an experienced player will be killed by a posse with 3 low level players when they have autoaim and PIB.   Defensive is great for solo players period.  Its not really that great on pc, but it still prevents one shot kill unless the grifer is using a menu. I have seen it exploited once or twice on XB. This was my fear of defensive, but its been great...one of the few bright spots design wise for RDO.

  These types of thread are based on the complete and stunning surprise that R* lets players mod their online game with impunity.  Unless you played GTAO or researched extensively, how would a player ever know?

[AmyStone]

15 minutes ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

No, it only gimps autoaimers that cannot use free aim. 

 

Only if you're making the assumption that it's mostly free aim players who use defensive - which it's not. Most players who are defensive go into that mode because they are not into pvp and want to be left alone. Against a greifer they are more likely to be worse off in defensive mode. The only real benefit you get in defensive against a full on griefer is that your dot is harder to spot on the map. But he's right that all that needs to happen is you die once then you parley.

[CosmicBuffalo]

7 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

 

Only if you're making the assumption that it's mostly free aim players who use defensive - which it's not. Most players who are defensive go into that mode because they are not into pvp and want to be left alone. Against a greifer they are more likely to be worse off in defensive mode. The only real benefit you get in defensive against a full on griefer is that your dot is harder to spot on the map. But he's right that all that needs to happen is you die once then you parley.

I didnt make that assumption.  I actually made it clear that it makes it harder for hard autoaimers only.  If you want dont want 3 noobs spamming PIB with autoaim, and can mildly free aim its awesome which I would wager is what most people are in defensive. Just to be clear,  I assume that almost all defensive players are using auto aim on npcs.  Defensive mode has a health boost as well.  It also prevents one shot kills which is what this thread is about.  

[AmyStone]

23 minutes ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

It also prevents one shot kills which is what this thread is about.  

 

Apart from dynamite.

 

One thing I'm curious about defensive. I realise that the person in defensive can take more damage but does the person the defensive player is shooting at get the same health boost? Or does the defensive player get more of a boost?

[CosmicBuffalo]

27 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

 

Apart from dynamite.

 

One thing I'm curious about defensive. I realise that the person in defensive can take more damage but does the person the defensive player is shooting at get the same health boost? Or does the defensive player get more of a boost?

I called it a health boost....but I think it actually reduces the damage another player can inflict per shot.  It makes more sense as a health boost to me.  The damage done by a player in Defensive is the same as if they are in Offensive.  So, in a way, its a damage boost as well.  But not really, it feels that way though.  If a defensive player lands head shot, it an instant kill like normal.

[RyuNova]

20 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

There is absolutely no reason to ever be in defensive mode.

All is does is gimp you.

If you don't want to engage in PvP, then don't engage in PvP.

Simply parley and go on about your business.

If you are on PC, buy a console.

/end thread 

 

Defensive Mode gimps you in no way. As someone said, it gimps people who use auto aim or long range rifles and removes a person's ability to one sh*t you.

 

For people that have no intrest in PvP they should always be in it. Seeing some little sh*t nugget icon immediately going into Dead Eye and then stamping his feet and throwing a tantrum when Paint It Black does not work amuses me very much. Even better us when they charge towards you with their lasso or knife and do that little hand movement and then just stand their trying to work out why it didn't work. 

[Direwrath]

13 hours ago, RyuNova said:

Even better us when they charge towards you with their lasso or knife and do that little hand movement and then just stand their trying to work out why it didn't work. 

Bolas are great to use in defensive, even if a player uses auto aim. All one has to do is aim at the body of the other player and throw 'em. I use them often when I have players like this and I am in defensive, they can throw that lasso or try to stab me all that they want. I just entangle them, hogtie them and leave them there wriggling as I ride away.

It's a polite but entertaining way for me to let them know that I am not interested in their games.