NPCs using Savages' and Valkyries' explosive cannons

[A6pukoc]

GTA Wikia says that bots controlling these helicopters can use explosive cannons since Doomsday Heist update. Why do you think such a decision was made?

[Spectre "2K"]

my guess is it was for very specific instances, like stealing the Khanjali from the scrapyard or the Avenger from the hangar. R* being R* though, somehow f*cked that up and now you have explosive cannon savages on a Pacific Standard setup mission and certain CEO crate missions that are very inconvenient and impossible to recover from if a valkyrie gets the drop on you. Also one of the bunker resupply missions, iirc. Their fix wasn't to fix the cannon usage outside of missions, but rather to just start giving NPCs the "no cannon" version, but also without retconning it into past content. Because of course they wouldn't...

[Nutduster]

Don't know why they did it, but I wish they would have been smart enough to crank down the aim accuracy of those guys. If they're going to use explosive cannons on you, the shots should miss like 75% of the time, or it's just cheap as all hell.

[Hécate-II]

52 minutes ago, Spectre "2K" said:

my guess is it was for very specific instances, like stealing the Khanjali from the scrapyard or the Avenger from the hangar. R* being R* though, somehow f*cked that up and now you have explosive cannon savages on a Pacific Standard setup mission and certain CEO crate missions that are very inconvenient and impossible to recover from if a valkyrie gets the drop on you. Also one of the bunker resupply missions, iirc. Their fix wasn't to fix the cannon usage outside of missions, but rather to just start giving NPCs the "no cannon" version, but also without retconning it into past content. Because of course they wouldn't...

 

Also Mobile Operations: "Half-Track Bully", its Valkyrie spamfeast. 

[Black-Dragon96]

Same goes for the valk in the merryweather prep for the cayo perico heist.

If you get to the location before the valk and start clapping guards the heli will melt you as soon as you are in range.

[Somnus Waltz]

NPCs can use the same weapons that you do in a videogame... It baffles me!!!

[Super Grunt 281]

Just now, Somnus Waltz said:

NPCs can use the same weapons that you do in a videogame... It baffles me!!!

NPC magic make all the difference.

[Hécate-II]

24 minutes ago, Somnus Waltz said:

NPCs can use the same weapons that you do in a videogame... It baffles me!!!

 

I like NPC choppers using all their weapons, problem is that R* compensates the AI's defects by giving NPC choppers stupidly unrealistic shooting angles, I mean it looks bad, really bad. Add to this instaspawn in front of players(~ less than 20 meters). 

 

[ambi3nt]

I think this changed later than Doomsday. It was somewhere around After Hours DLC or so. Funny part is not only that they aimbot with those cannons pretty well, but they can i.e. shoot 90 degrees up from vehicle like APC during bunker resupply mission.

[Mdc]

43 minutes ago, Hécate-II said:

 

I like NPC choppers using all their weapons, problem is that R* compensates the AI's defects by giving NPC choppers stupidly unrealistic shooting angles, I mean it looks bad, really bad. Add to this instaspawn in front of players(~ less than 20 meters). 

 

Yeah you are right on that. Amount of times a goddamn savage has obliterated me on convoy because some fool jumps out my car and decides to try and snipe it down... I usually take the route of going past the convoy, up the hill behind the savage, use the cars missiles then have the convoy chase me to the drop off. It pretty risk free with a team willing to hold off of the 'steal the truck' objective. But when some moron jumps out the car and snipes at the savage instantly even though its 50 feet below me and facing the opposite direction you get sprayed with that cannon! So unrealistic.

[lnterloper]

I don't mind the change, you just have to adapt, I remember doing the Convoy mission for the Pacific Standard, and after this change I would always bring a blast resistant vehicle instead, for the Bunker missions I simply never let this murder machines get near me after 1200 bunker missions. Now comes the fun story, I never knew how strong these things are because I never let these anywhere near me, one day I spawn in the middle of the road after a Doomsday Heist Setup and immediately start exploding, since I play on the PC, me and my friends thought that we where being attacked by a cheater putting explosions underneath our feet, but no, it was a Valkyrie of some dude selling CEO crates in a Titan, and we where stuck in a death loop just like how it happens with cheaters, and to add to the weirdness, the chopper would not appear in the radar! So after some seconds I realise what was happening and me and my friends where laughing at the "cheater Valkyrie".

[Gridl0k]

What's really gonna bake your noodle is why rockstar put a Merryweather guy in a Maverick above the MOC in the superdollar job. No passengers so he just sort of hovers aggressively.

 

PS there are numerous NPCs who will use eg the Valkyrie gun for you against the enemy, FWIW. Stanley and Anna spring to mind.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Gridl0k

[MayoChiki]

it's the same with the stupid bunker resupply mission. if you were dumb enough to do the moc mission with the apc your reward is the convoy resupply mission replacing the target insurgent with an apc. r*ckstar of course managed to f*ck this up by giving the apc the same accuracy, which makes it an insta-death machine that can and will spawn kill you and won't have any opening unless you're right in front of it. add the explosive chopper that will be with the convoy and the ambush part is impossible

 

the question is, how? how come missions don't have fixed spawns or they just didn't add a new enemy variant with the explosive cannons? how did they manage to retroactively f*ck what was already there

[ambi3nt]

1 hour ago, MayoChiki said:

it's the same with the stupid bunker resupply mission. if you were dumb enough to do the moc mission with the apc your reward is the convoy resupply mission replacing the target insurgent with an apc. r*ckstar of course managed to f*ck this up by giving the apc the same accuracy, which makes it an insta-death machine that can and will spawn kill you and won't have any opening unless you're right in front of it. add the explosive chopper that will be with the convoy and the ambush part is impossible

 

the question is, how? how come missions don't have fixed spawns or they just didn't add a new enemy variant with the explosive cannons? how did they manage to retroactively f*ck what was already there

You just take out valkyrie from distance before you trigger convoy  to move. Then you use cover and minigun to off APC driver. It's slightly troublesome if mission  happens in the area of Chaparral, but MOC shots are quite dodgeable by stranding behind electricity pole and such.

[lnterloper]

5 hours ago, Gridl0k said:

What's really gonna bake your noodle is why rockstar put a Merryweather guy in a Maverick above the MOC in the superdollar job. No passengers so he just sort of hovers aggressively.

 

 

According to KDJ and Sessanta that Maverick is a TV crew recording the armed conflict on the motorway, the pilot being a guy from Merryweather is just the guy that coded the mission being lazy. Jesus I just realize that I am talking about about KDJ mission lore urrrgghh.

[Gridl0k]

Would have been nice if you could headshot him without the chopper exploding but rockstar moves in mysterious ways umm wait no they just hate fun.

[Somnus Waltz]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:42 AM, Hécate-II said:

 

I like NPC choppers using all their weapons, problem is that R* compensates the AI's defects by giving NPC choppers stupidly unrealistic shooting angles, I mean it looks bad, really bad. Add to this instaspawn in front of players(~ less than 20 meters). 

 

 

I mean we're talking about you being unable to handle Rockstar's enemy AI............ Such a dumb company and game, right? And you can't fend off their computer enemies in GTA online? 

[Hécate-II]

1 hour ago, Somnus Waltz said:

 

And you can't fend off their computer enemies in GTA online? 

 

I do and well, in free aim and without MK2, I'm pretty good at the game in general, I play the worst missions full of aimbots for fun. So? Are you really going to defend this design choice according which NPC Buzzards are shooting at 90° and appearing in front of you? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rez090]

On 8/14/2021 at 5:53 AM, MayoChiki said:

it's the same with the stupid bunker resupply mission. if you were dumb enough to do the moc mission with the apc your reward is the convoy resupply mission replacing the target insurgent with an apc.

What do you mean when you say MOC mission with the APC? Are you referring to a bunker resupply or a Gunrunning mission? On the bunker resupply, the target has not always been an Insurgent, it switches between the Insurgent or an APC. It's been like that since day one.

 

On 8/14/2021 at 5:53 AM, MayoChiki said:

and the ambush part is impossible

Don't see how. Two of the locations can be blockaded with your MOC and the third has a construction vehicle that can be moved. Just destroy the Valkyrie before it gets anywhere near the ambush point.

[Hécate-II]

The Hunter in Cashing Out is able to launch missiles at 80-90° from below(when you fly above it), the session was laggy, I was trying to shoot the NPC Hunter so that random host wouldn't die a second time(sitting below the Hunter after dying because guy doesn't understand the meaning of "keep your distance"), I messed a little and got hit which killed my rotors. 

 

I played it like 5 times this day, and here the lag caused the NPC vehicles to appear on the radar several minutes after their effective spawn. Not a big deal but its really dumb as well, they could just put a couple more of Hunters that spawn higher and destroy you with their autocannon instead having missiles launched at stupid angles. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Hécate-II

[lnterloper]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:08 AM, Somnus Waltz said:

I mean we're talking about you being unable to handle Rockstar's enemy AI............ Such a dumb company and game, right? And you can't fend off their computer enemies in GTA online? 

 

The complains that he is talking about are common complains from the community, no need to shame the guy for voicing his opinion, and yes, Rockstar made the most profitable product of entertainment in history, made all the games that we love spanning decades and all, but this means that they are free from critics? There is "nothing I can't handle" in this game, but for example having the "rapid fire glitch" insta killing my teammates or the 100% accuracy while in cover NPCs didn't made all my Criminal Masterminds II, III and IV more "fun".

 

There are examples in the game industry of more natural AI, and game Devs striving for a better AI, for example in Valve games; the Bots are programed to have a "virtual mousepad" so if you move a lot they have to "lift the virtual mouse" from time to time, and have tracking problems like a real human would have. Payday 2 cops will spray you, try to shoot you even when you are in cover to suppress you, they have low accuracy in movement and even have a code for "fear" and 'hesitation" based on how many of them they have being seen killed in action in a certain time window, and basically fighting them feels "normal", this is the same game where you have muzzle flash tips for guns that lowers your accuracy and stability but make your gun more scary because there is a stat called "threatening", if it goes too high there is even a chance of cops throwing themselves in fear on the floor with special panic animations.

 

Put anything on a pedestal, being a game company or person and they will never improve. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by lnterloper

[lnterloper]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:32 AM, Hécate-II said:

The Hunter in Cashing Out is able to launch missiles at 80-90° from below(when you fly above it), the session was laggy, I was trying to shoot the NPC Hunter so that random host wouldn't die a second time(sitting below the Hunter after dying because guy doesn't understand the meaning of "keep your distance"), I messed a little and got hit which killed my rotors. 

 

I played it like 5 times this day, and here the lag caused the NPC vehicles to appear on the radar several minutes after their effective spawn. Not a big deal but its really dumb as well, they could just put a couple more of Hunters that spawn higher and destroy you with their autocannon instead having missiles launched at stupid angles. 

 

You can do that too with the explosive cannons of the Hunter and Valkyrie (not the rockets), basically if you spam get in and get out of the turret you will see your "drive by" crosshair reticule for like 2 to 5 seconds and you are able to shot in impossible angles such as though your main rotor if you hold your trigger, the more you do this, the longer you will be able to abuse this.

[Hécate-II]

1 hour ago, lnterloper said:

 

the longer you will be able to abuse this.

 

Like if it was the ultimate skill to abuse something that is physically impossible. Thanks but no, and I already knew about this crap. I'm not reporting stupid NPC ability to shoot their missiles through their own rotors to do the same after against players. 

[lnterloper]

1 minute ago, Hécate-II said:

 

Like if it was the ultimate skill to abuse something that is physically impossible. Thanks but no, and I already knew about this crap. I'm not reporting stupid NPC ability to shoot their missiles through their own rotors to do the same after against players. 

 

I know, I know what you mean, but information is information, you use it like you see fit, for example this is helpful if you are doing the Human Labs finale with a potato pilot, like there is a Buzzard over your head, just kill it with this trick, would be nice if nobody could shoot though rotors? Yes, being players or NPCs alike, but some things are broken, and in the same fashion they can annoy you, you can take advantage of them.

[Hécate-II]

17 minutes ago, lnterloper said:

 

I know, I know what you mean, but information is information, you use it like you see fit, for example this is helpful if you are doing the Human Labs finale with a potato pilot, like there is a Buzzard over your head, just kill it with this trick

 

Well...if I play HL casually I'm the pilot most of the times so we don't need to rely to something like this, I know exactly when buzzards spawn and where, if I can't be the Valk pilot in a team of randoms I just leave now . 

[Gridl0k]

I gave Lil' Dee the 40mm launcher on the back of my Barrage but he's a f*cking pussy.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:09 AM, Somnus Waltz said:

NPCs can use the same weapons that you do in a videogame... It baffles me!!!

Can we use said weapons with the same degree of unnatural accuracy as NPCs though? That's what's really baffling here.

 

On 8/15/2021 at 5:08 AM, Somnus Waltz said:

 

I mean we're talking about you being unable to handle Rockstar's enemy AI............ Such a dumb company and game, right? And you can't fend off their computer enemies in GTA online? 

I didn't knew that you needed to be able to beat overpowered AI with broken autoaim in order to criticize it.

 

Lmao imagine trying to defend Rockstar and their terrible AI, couldn't be me.

[lnterloper]

1 hour ago, Gridl0k said:

I gave Lil' Dee the 40mm launcher on the back of my Barrage but he's a f*cking pussy.

 

I know what you are talking about, in the other hand if you give a turret to ULP, he goes APE.

 

The Virgin Lil' Dee vs The Chad ULP

 

Spoiler

 

[Hécate-II]

2 hours ago, Yellow Dog with Cone said:

 

I didn't knew that you needed to be able to beat overpowered AI with broken autoaim in order to criticize it.