Take-Two vs The GTA Modding Community, 2021 E&E Edition

[Lock n' Stock]

Meanwhile...

 

https://kotaku.com/fallout-london-mod-4-skyrim-pc-hired-bethesda-fan-dev-1849136115

 

Honestly, could you ever see Rocksh*t and Take-Twat doing something like this?

Edited July 7, 2022 by Lock n' Stock

[Space Cowboy]

1 hour ago, Kimd41 said:

To me this is an indication that T2 wants to oficially support VR in the near future. 

They want to, with GTA SA VR, but no way in hell all of those projects are gonna receive VR functionality. Not that this takedown would be justified if they were receiving VR functionality, but it's just strange.

Last year they DMCA'd a bunch of projects related to games like Bully and Manhunt, and now we know those weren't even considered to be re-released/remastered.

[arisfelbonilla]

6 hours ago, Zello said:

Said this over on the trilogy thread. I'm not a modder this isn't my fight but there is something you guys can do. People can protest like actually go to their HQ and protest. Not an online protest those never go far and always fall on deaf ears. But physically that's what those people did in 2006 for Bully. Granted this would be different and an entirely different situation. But if angry modders could organize and show up to their doorstep they might take action.

 

Don't wanna do that? Buy up billboards next to their offices.

Now what do they gain from that for the police to come and arrest them? or that modders who live near the take two offices do it? really many will not care about that

[Zello]

9 minutes ago, arisfelbonilla said:

Now what do they gain from that for the police to come and arrest them? or that modders who live near the take two offices do it? really many will not care about that

Police won't arrest you if you aren't breaking the law. It brings the issue to Rockstar's doorstep because online petitions and complaining on forums never work. If modders were to organize together and plan a trip to Rockstar's HQ it could work.

[NightmanCometh96]

3 hours ago, Kimd41 said:

To me this is an indication that T2 wants to oficially support VR in the near future. 

Seems like they're using brute force to pave the way for SA VR, which, knowing how things have gone down over the past few years, will be based on the f*cking DE; or, god forbid, even the original mobile port...

 

Much like the DE, I'm also sure T2 realizes that, yet again, fans/modders have provided a much better experience than whatever SA VR turns out to be.

Edited July 7, 2022 by NightmanCometh96

[Ryo256]

1 hour ago, Zello said:

If modders were to organize together and plan a trip to Rockstar's HQ it could work.

But on what basis are modders supposed to do that? Legally speaking, Rockstar is backed up by copyright laws. Modders are always at the mercy of companies that either accept you toying with their IPs or not. You have companies like Nintendo which eats fanart for breakfast so in T2's eyes, they themselves are being...."generous."

[Adminsaredicks]

Maybe Im too cynical, but they dont want your mods. They dont care, they will not thank you, they will send you threats actually

 

 

Why are modders wasting time where they are not invited? Try other games, I read that Volition is OK with modding their games...

 

Stop giving them reasons to harrash you! Sadly they are in charge, because DMCA .

 

Dont give them munition, that are using against you!

[Kris194]

22 hours ago, Carbonox said:

Never stop the madness.

 

 

Next time this guy should just read EULA or at the very least this

 

https://support.rockstargames.com/articles/115009494848/PC-Single-Player-Mods

 

Quote

Answer: Rockstar Games believes in reasonable fan creativity, and, in particular, wants creators to showcase their passion for our games. After discussions with Take-Two, Take-Two has agreed that it generally will not take legal action against third-party projects involving Rockstar’s PC games that are single-player, non-commercial, and respect the intellectual property (IP) rights of third parties.

 

One must be crazy to think, that company which spent hundreds of millions of dollars to make and advertise the game will allow someone to make money on making some tools to it.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Kris194

[LarcenousUrsine]

1 hour ago, Kris194 said:

One must be crazy to think, that company which spent hundreds of millions of dollars to make and advertise the game will allow someone to make money on making some tools to it.

I must be tripping balls then, cause ZModeler 3 is still a thing I can pay 84 dollars for its two-year license. Either I pay up or use a cracked, outdated version. No other way to port cars to V for me so far.

 

And what's this "non-commercial projects" bull? NVE and Quant are making just as much money as these VR mods, if not more, and they're still up and running.

Edited July 7, 2022 by LarcenousUrsine

[Lock n' Stock]

At this point, can we safely say that T2 are the worst of the big AAA publishers? I thought the likes of EA, Konami e.g. were bad, but this unprovoked act of war that T2 is waging on its modding communities has put them in a category far sh*ttier than the rest of them imo, especially when there’s NOTHING to be gained from it (other than some kind of perverse gratification). The usual monetization garbage they push is just icing on the cake.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Lock n' Stock

[NightmanCometh96]

5 hours ago, Lock n' Stock said:

At this point, can we safely say that T2 are the worst of the big AAA publishers? I thought the likes of EA, Konami e.g. were bad, but this unprovoked act of war that T2 is waging on its modding communities has put them in a category far sh*ttier than the rest of them imo, especially when there’s NOTHING to be gained from it (if not some kind of perverse gratification). The usual monetization garbage is they push is just icing on the cake.

Sadly, I imagine it's because T2 doesn't really have much to lose, either. At the end of the day, R* and GTA have no "real" competition on the market (and likely never will, for better or worse); they know people will buy their products no matter what. And for every potential customer lost from sh*t like this insulting anti-modding stance, well, luckily for R*/T2, shark card sales will more than make up for that lost revenue.

 

The small, but vocal minority that happily goes to bat for R*/T2 every time they do something controversial (the DE, mod takedowns, E&E, etc.) only further exacerbates their seeming "invincibility", IMO; you know, the handwaving statements such as "I forgive R* because they made RDR2", "poorly-made remasters don't count as a blunder because R* didn't make them in house", "R* haven't disappointed me yet, therefore they can never do any wrong", or my personal favorite:

 

Spoiler

"Actions have consequences". 

 

To be fair, I know this last one was retracted and clarified upon shortly after, but it's not the type of thing that should have been said in that situation in the first place. It was essentially kicking the GTA modding community (and the general fanbase) when they were down and at their lowest point.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by NightmanCometh96

[Ryo256]

16 hours ago, NightmanCometh96 said:

Sadly, I imagine it's because T2 doesn't really have much to lose, either. At the end of the day, R* and GTA have no "real" competition on the market (and likely never will, for better or worse); they know people will buy their products no matter what. And for every potential customer lost from sh*t like this insulting anti-modding stance, well, luckily for R*/T2, shark card sales will more than make up for that lost revenue.

 

The small, but vocal minority that happily goes to bat for R*/T2 every time they do something controversial (the DE, mod takedowns, E&E, etc.) only further exacerbates their seeming "invincibility", IMO; you know, the handwaving statements such as "I forgive R* because they made RDR2", "poorly-made remasters don't count as a blunder because R* didn't make them in house", "R* haven't disappointed me yet, therefore they can never do any wrong", or my personal favorite:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

"Actions have consequences". 

 

To be fair, I know this last one was retracted and clarified upon shortly after, but it's not the type of thing that should have been said in that situation in the first place. It was essentially kicking the GTA modding community (and the general fanbase) when they were down and at their lowest point.

 

I wouldn't say that it's small/vocal minority since from my experience, the average customer of Rockstar doesn't even accept there is a competitor for GTA series. Sure people might think of Saints Row (which they will dismiss as a GTA clone) but I bet no one even knows Volition's name. "Watch_Dogs? Hah! This ain't Ubisoft's domain!" They will say (in a similar way no one will mention Rockstar in the Assassin's Creed fanbase because it ain't their place in the market).

Even though I would say, something controversial, that these competitors and others which I haven't mentioned, do offer some level of substitute to GTA series but the issue is they are dismissed before they can even make an argument. Because the average joe doesn't want to deal with a choice dilemna, Rockstar is number 1, "always" is, "always" will be, it's just easier to go with that than to be critical.

 

So a circlejerk has been created which some of us have been pointing out especially since Cyberpunk 2077 which is an example of a game that (ignoring its strength for the sake of this argument) was a huge blunder. But there is a big fanbase that just tolerates CDPR. I mean if Ubisoft or EA did a blunder like this, the players would crucify them but people are bias towards CDPR. Similarly we pointed out that Rockstar's fanbase is similar, that right now their select quality products hides this but in a situation where they make the worst GTA product and at the same time, their competitors may make the best GTA alternative, people will still flock to Rockstar in that scenario. Because of the fanboy culture, the competition has been rejected beforehand, even before it has a reason to make an effort.

It's not unique to Rockstar, it's just how gaming communities are now. It's just how the silent majority works. What will happen is that big companies which has fanboy culture will make huge blunders until a huge circlejerk will be created that will sweep away the relatively smaller fanboy cultures and boom! AAA industry as a whole will not be trusted to make anything good but that's in the far future. Whether that is for the better or for worse, I'm not sure but what it does mean that we are gonna have to bear Rockstar's "invincibility" status for a loooooong time. Because they got the majority's vote, it ain't a minority IMO.

[Americana]

I remember when people made fun of Watch Dogs, but in my opinion it's 100% more interesting and immersive than Grand Theft Auto V.

[Donald Lov]

3 hours ago, Americana said:

I remember when people made fun of Watch Dogs, but in my opinion it's 100% more interesting and immersive than Grand Theft Auto V.

Based on what I've read from you on here, everything is more immersive and interesting for you as long as it's a moody  city with a bunch of skyscrapers

[Americana]

True. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Americana

[arisfelbonilla]

On 7/7/2022 at 10:47 AM, Ryo256 said:

But on what basis are modders supposed to do that? Legally speaking, Rockstar is backed up by copyright laws. Modders are always at the mercy of companies that either accept you toying with their IPs or not. You have companies like Nintendo which eats fanart for breakfast so in T2's eyes, they themselves are being...."generous."

you're right
 your ips your rules
many will say that this is not fair, that bethesda hires modders blah blah blah and all that but
companies don't think alike
for bethesda the mods are good, for rockstar or take two
No
Because if one day someone steals your IP from a game, would you stay with your arms crossed? of course not a copyright lawsuit and it's over people don't understand
What's more, they were carrying the red dead 1 pc and it is more than clear that take two was not happy

Edited July 8, 2022 by arisfelbonilla

[Ryo256]

On 7/8/2022 at 12:13 AM, Lock n' Stock said:

At this point, can we safely say that T2 are the worst of the big AAA publishers?

I think they do kinda compete with Nintendo in terms of such fan-content takedowns. Also had that wierd online subscription nonsense or shutting down their online store for previous consoles so you can kiss your previous digital purchases good bye. But then again, Nintendo at least releases some good games on regular basis unlike T2/R* milking their products so I don't know who's worse.

 

17 hours ago, Americana said:

I remember when people made fun of Watch Dogs, but in my opinion it's 100% more interesting and immersive than Grand Theft Auto V.

I wouldn't compare it to GTA V since W_D was a response to GTA IV. In which case I think it does lack a bit in the city interaction and supporting cast department. Still a good game.

 

12 hours ago, arisfelbonilla said:

you're right
 your ips your rules

I think it's more complicated than that. T2/R* can takedown fan-content but at the same time, they don't do anything for singleplayer games, they remove music content, they release buggy patches, they release pretty bad remasters (with high prices too), they do microtransactions. I think the fanbase just feels suffocated at this point.
 

 

12 hours ago, arisfelbonilla said:

for bethesda the mods are good, for rockstar or take two
No

This is why I always have a soft spot for Bethesda. They have their screwups yes but they do have a place in their hearts for the community when they not only accepted mods but even released the modding tools for their games. Their games just became immortal because of this move.

 

12 hours ago, arisfelbonilla said:

Because if one day someone steals your IP from a game, would you stay with your arms crossed? of course not a copyright lawsuit and it's over people don't understand

I guess if someone was profiting off your IP, it's understandable to stop them but I think the issue is that T2 starts to look down on the majority in the end. They will hesitate to release PC ports and they will start taking down modders in bulks rather than stealing-individuals so it hurts community as a whole. Not to mention there is the issue that they milk their IPs a lot so if they lose a bit of money, it shouldn't be that big of a deal, not saying that don't have the right but there is this perception in the mind of frustrated customers that if T2/R* weren't squeezing every penny out of their fanbase, then may be them worrying about IP-stealers would be more reasonable but right now, they only come off as greedy.
 

 

12 hours ago, arisfelbonilla said:

What's more, they were carrying the red dead 1 pc 

Flat2VR had a fan-made PC port of RDR1? 
 

Spoiler

Dang, where can I get it? 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Ryo256

[Americana]

8 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

I wouldn't compare it to GTA V since W_D was a response to GTA IV. In which case I think it does lack a bit in the city interaction and supporting cast department.

 

Maybe, but people made fun of the game because it wasn't as advanced as Ubisoft claimed it to be - and they compared it to Grand Theft Auto V which in my opinion is lesser of a game.

[Ryo256]

Just now, Americana said:

 

Maybe, but people made fun of the game because it wasn't as advanced as Ubisoft claimed it to be - and they compared it to Grand Theft Auto V which in my opinion is lesser of a game.

Being a competitor to GTA IV already made Ubisoft ship W_D with depth. However, W_D can feel lacking on the surface (GTA V was just more polished and had huge map with pretty graphics) so people were quick to tell you that Ubisoft was out of their league especially since it was their first attempt at the genre and also because Rockstar has a circlejerk as I said. Plus Ubisoft did downgrade it in terms of graphics so there was some bad rep going on (not that GTA V didn't also have content cuts and a gameplay video not hinting FIB garbage at all but that bad rep catched on much later, by then the damage on W_D was already done). W_D release needed to be flawless to beat any GTA title which it wasn't unfortunately. I guess what I'm saying that W_D in its core was a better game than V as you said but it had some stuff that GTA V did better (more so on surface level) so the community reaction went as expected since they had enough ammo to shoot down this game that waas challenging their favorite franchise.

Now W_D2 is interesting because I think it did fix what W_D was lacking. Yes, it had a narrative that wasn't most people's flavor with some issues like Marcus gunning people but in terms of a lighthearted GTA-like experience (that GTA V was supposed to be), W_D2 was definitely a step up to GTA V. It still felt a bit lacking in polish but it closed the gap quite a bit IMO.

[DodgeSomrs]

Hey guys, I haven't posted anything here for a long time. Maybe all of you here really wanna see this.

 

I was wandering around the "GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted" topic, and then, some user named Wakka387 posted something, something that puzzled me. I know some of you guys might've seen it or heard jack about it, but I gotta share it here so I could spread his word.

 

After all those months why Take-Two is killing mods (that we mostly loved, including GTA UG) without any further reason (due to Zelnick giving "plausible" explanation why), it turns out that we got a culprit here which sparked the fire.

 

Topic: GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted (by Eckh)

Post by: Wakka387

Posted Thursday, July 28, 2022, at 6:33 P.M.

 

actually it was something else... Raydica distributed the full game files (which is illegal) along with his mod.

 

For whatever reason, Russians were not happy and started mass reporting to rockstars legal team, which led to the massive DMCA strikes against the community as a whole including the unrelated "RE:3/RE:VC" mods

 

 

(end of original post)

 

I don't know if this is legit, but the way I see it, this is new and something that people in this topic should know. I also don't know how to quote posts from different topics, so I copy/pasted it instead.

Edited July 31, 2022 by DodgeSomrs
Don't know

[Ehrmantraut]

"Muh gamer rights".

[Ivan1997GTA]

I don't know who's to blame, Ryadica or Maxim, because I think both of them are at fault for what happened last year.

 

On one hand, it was a stupid idea to distribute the full game files alongside the Re:LCS mod (and locked behind a paywall, no less), but on the other hand, calling Ryadica a "hacker, cheater and pirate" is quite hypocritical, given that a lot of games (and software) are pirated in Russia.

 

Those mass reports were very uncalled for, though.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Ivan1997GTA

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DodgeSomrs said:

Hey guys, I haven't posted anything here for a long time. Maybe all of you here really wanna see this.

 

I was wandering around the "GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted" topic, and then, some user named Wakka387 posted something, something that puzzled me. I know some of you guys might've seen it or heard jack about it, but I gotta share it here so I could spread his word.

 

After all those months why Take-Two is killing mods (that we mostly loved, including GTA UG) without any further reason (due to Zelnick giving "plausible" explanation why), it turns out that we got a culprit here which sparked the fire.

 

Topic: GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted (by Eckh)

Post by: Wakka387

Posted Thursday, July 28, 2022, at 6:33 P.M.

 

actually it was something else... Raydica distributed the full game files (which is illegal) along with his mod.

 

For whatever reason, Russians were not happy and started mass reporting to rockstars legal team, which led to the massive DMCA strikes against the community as a whole including the unrelated "RE:3/RE:VC" mods

 

 

(end of original post)

 

I don't know if this is legit, but the way I see it, this is new and something that people in this topic should know. I also don't know how to quote posts from different topics, so I copy/pasted it instead.

O_O

 

Holy sh*t, I can't believe this crap... Is Ryadica aware of all this? Where is he now? What happened to him?

[Carbonox]

8 hours ago, DodgeSomrs said:

Hey guys, I haven't posted anything here for a long time. Maybe all of you here really wanna see this.

 

I was wandering around the "GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted" topic, and then, some user named Wakka387 posted something, something that puzzled me. I know some of you guys might've seen it or heard jack about it, but I gotta share it here so I could spread his word.

 

After all those months why Take-Two is killing mods (that we mostly loved, including GTA UG) without any further reason (due to Zelnick giving "plausible" explanation why), it turns out that we got a culprit here which sparked the fire.

 

Topic: GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted (by Eckh)

Post by: Wakka387

Posted Thursday, July 28, 2022, at 6:33 P.M.

 

actually it was something else... Raydica distributed the full game files (which is illegal) along with his mod.

 

For whatever reason, Russians were not happy and started mass reporting to rockstars legal team, which led to the massive DMCA strikes against the community as a whole including the unrelated "RE:3/RE:VC" mods

 

 

(end of original post)

 

I don't know if this is legit, but the way I see it, this is new and something that people in this topic should know. I also don't know how to quote posts from different topics, so I copy/pasted it instead.

So what does this boil down to, a bunch of nerds still waiting for their draft letters thinking "I'm doing my part for the war effort!"?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Carbonox said:

So what does this boil down to, a bunch of nerds still waiting for their draft letters thinking "I'm doing my part for the war effort!"?

It doesn't seem like a moral ground-based act at all. It feels like they did this on purpose and out of hatred\enmity against Ryadica.

 

Maybe those baby zoomer kiddos wanted to buy the latest in-development build (BETA 6.0 to be precise) of Re: LCS through early access on Patreon but their mommies didn't allow them their credit cards.

 

Interesting how T2 were too dumb to notice re3 and reVC existed until they were pointed out. 

[DodgeSomrs]

6 hours ago, H-G said:

O_O

 

Holy sh*t, I can't believe this crap... Is Ryadica aware of all this? Where is he now? What happened to him?

I guess he went silent when Take-Two gone nuketown on mods. And for the Russians who did this, I guess they're "self-righteous" people who did this out of jealousy.

12 hours ago, Ivan1997GTA said:

it was a stupid idea to distribute the full game files alongside the Re:LCS mod (and locked behind a paywall, no less)

I guess, because it's actually piracy since Ryadica distributed the game (which includes files that he didn't own) by hiding the latest versions on a paywall. Recently, Paramount just took down a fan-made Spongebob game. Even though the fan-made game is non-profit, they took it down anyways.

Edited July 31, 2022 by DodgeSomrs

[Spider-Vice]

This seems like a bunch of people trying to troll Ryadica due to his Patreon stuff more than the cause of the other mods being taken down. T2 saw those mods by themselves right before the Definitive Editions released I'm sure. Ryadica asked staff to remove the Re:LCS topic in fear that the same could happen to his mod.

 

Pretty sh*tty that people would consider mass-reporting his mod to T2 just because it's behind a Patreon paywall. It is sketchy, especially if he did/does distribute an entire game installation which *would* be considered piracy, but they're basically becoming the very thing they swore to destroy.

[Jinx.]

On 7/31/2022 at 6:06 AM, DodgeSomrs said:

Hey guys, I haven't posted anything here for a long time. Maybe all of you here really wanna see this.

 

I was wandering around the "GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted" topic, and then, some user named Wakka387 posted something, something that puzzled me. I know some of you guys might've seen it or heard jack about it, but I gotta share it here so I could spread his word.

 

After all those months why Take-Two is killing mods (that we mostly loved, including GTA UG) without any further reason (due to Zelnick giving "plausible" explanation why), it turns out that we got a culprit here which sparked the fire.

 

Topic: GTA Re Liberty City Stories all official site missing or deleted (by Eckh)

Post by: Wakka387

Posted Thursday, July 28, 2022, at 6:33 P.M.

 

actually it was something else... Raydica distributed the full game files (which is illegal) along with his mod.

 

For whatever reason, Russians were not happy and started mass reporting to rockstars legal team, which led to the massive DMCA strikes against the community as a whole including the unrelated "RE:3/RE:VC" mods

 

 

(end of original post)

 

I don't know if this is legit, but the way I see it, this is new and something that people in this topic should know. I also don't know how to quote posts from different topics, so I copy/pasted it instead.

The re3 original DMCA happened almost a month before this (in February 2021). And as far as we're concerned, Ryadica wasn't targeted. Unrelated event, to re3 atleast. As for this being the cause for the other mods being taken down, I don't know either, Trilogy was around the door at the time, so they could've just "gotten rid of the competition".

Edited August 5, 2022 by Jinx.

[D T]

I feel zero remorse for anybody leeching cash from this community, especially when older modding projects with just as much effort have been distributed for free over the years. It's a huge slap in the face to the very people who tirelessly built the foundation for such things to exist. The OpenIV team, VCS:PC team, and IV:SA team could've made thousands back in the day for their efforts, but instead they chose to let people enjoy their work for free. The more rampant these Patreon gougers become, the more likely it is the modding scene will stay in the crosshairs. Instead of improving the shortcomings of these games, gen-z modders have weaponized these flaws out of greed. You even got people selling reshade presets now. Over the coming years, I very much doubt publishers are going to sit back and watch Patreon syphon revenue from potential remasters, especially with Take-Two now having set a precedent. A decade from now NaturalVision Evolved and FiveM will be looked back on as the worst things to happen to this series. Quote me on that dudes. At this point, I can't wait for GTA VI to come out and put these Patreon Andys out of commission.

[Jinx.]

12 hours ago, D T said:

I feel zero remorse for anybody leeching cash from this community, especially when older modding projects with just as much effort have been distributed for free over the years. It's a huge slap in the face to the very people who tirelessly built the foundation for such things to exist. The OpenIV team, VCS:PC team, and IV:SA team could've made thousands back in the day for their efforts, but instead they chose to let people enjoy their work for free. The more rampant these Patreon gougers become, the more likely it is the modding scene will stay in the crosshairs. Instead of improving the shortcomings of these games, gen-z modders have weaponized these flaws out of greed. You even got people selling reshade presets now. Over the coming years, I very much doubt publishers are going to sit back and watch Patreon syphon revenue from potential remasters, especially with Take-Two now having set a precedent. A decade from now NaturalVision Evolved and FiveM will be looked back on as the worst things to happen to this series. Quote me on that dudes. At this point, I can't wait for GTA VI to come out and put these Patreon Andys out of commission.

Too bad OpenIV went that way nowadays, not to mention they're one of the reason IV modding is dead in the water these days. And sadly the 3D Era modding started to get the Patreon plague too, slowly but surely. There are already certain modders in that scene that feel like modding is a waste of time if they don't milk users dry of money. Granted there's a difference between a donation and asking for money to continue modding.

 

Modding's a passion, not a job. Get a real job like dkluin did.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Jinx.