Take-Two changes the agreement, Modding Take Downs

[Jeansowaty]

So I suppose I should be taken down and annihialated by some lawyers because my profile picture is a custom GTA IV OC?

[_MK_]

Trevor has gone completely mad and infuriated by this once again

 

NSFW:

Spoiler

This was done with the use of OpenIV and a script, feel free to sue me.

 

[GhettoJesus]

This is low, real low. T2 and R* have been isolating themselves from the fan base more and more. The recent DMCA takedowns (such as the takedown of the reverse engineered GTAs) have caught my eye but I guess this is the final nail in the coffin. This is insane. Even vocal critics of R*, T2 and/or the direction the franchise took admitted that at least the franchise is mod friendly. Not anymore. They have now angered a huge modding community and I don't think there is going back now. It sounds like T2 has a good mind to enforce this policy even if R* or the media begged them not to.

 

If remakes and remasters aren't planned then honestly, what's there to gain? And most importantly, how does this even harm them? It's not like people were selling these mods.

 

An absolutely abhorrent move, just a lesson that every respected gaming company can go to sh*t (albeit R* has gone sh*t way before this). While I am not the type who is big on mods but this is still a pretty big loss. Let's just hope that people happen to have the original files laying around so they can be re-uploaded even if they are for brief periods.

Edited July 18, 2021 by GhettoJesus

[Zapper]

On 7/17/2021 at 10:08 PM, Kalvin said:

I don't know about Rockstar explicitly, but DMA actually released some of their tools for the 2D games for the community to toy with! Rockstar even messed around with modders own tools for GTA3 on things such as carcols, handling, etc during the development of Vice City, if I recall correctly.

Then it's 100% Hot Coffee that completely changed Rockstar's attitude towards PC modding. Sam Houser went on record saying how mentally and emotionally draining the trials were.

More recently Rockstar, possibly to stop RedM (Red Dead RP) from growing made it so CFX can’t host the files on it unlike with FiveM so they had to use peer to peer which resulted in very slow download speed for caches. That shows their stance towards modders.

[pinospin]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:42 PM, Jeansowaty said:

So I suppose I should be taken down and annihialated by some lawyers because my profile picture is a custom GTA IV OC?

Nope, not at all

[Olanov]

I can't believe we're right back to this bullsh*t.

[Ivan1997GTA]

We should send the T2 executives a package full of killer bees to get them to change their minds about the mods.

[Carbonox]

Literally nothing good comes out of T2, is that right?

[BS_BlackScout]

While I do not recall what was stated explicitly in the original "agreement", I do recall that new content, as well as any mods that did not involve Total Conversions, were deemed acceptable.
I am not sure if that included all cross-era conversions, if there were any supposed limitations, or anything else. I knew TCs were either gray area or not allowed at all because they involved porting content from other IPs into another title.

 

The lack of an archive of that original support article adds to the confusion, and I am a little annoyed about it. Rockstar may have a reason to blacklist or prevent the website from being archived. Perhaps they do not want accidental personal information to be archived because it is a support website. Perhaps the URL was removed on purpose by a request to archive.org. I am unable to comment on what occurred. There was also an archive on archive.is, but it has since been removed and I am not sure why. In any case, it makes the situation look even worse...

I find it difficult to judge this situation because I have no knowledge of the original text or what exactly happened back then because I simply do not remember, but I will do my best to express my feelings about this.

There are a few major issues that concern me. The first is that removing certain mods, such as GTA: Liberty City, is completely illogical. While Take-Two Interactive is legally entitled to do so, I fail to see why this would be harmful or detrimental to their businesses. Even if the rumored GTA Trilogy remaster becomes a reality.

In the case of other mods, such as State of Liberty and GTA Underground, it could be argued that the fact that they bring content from other GTAs into a single game may grant access to assets for which the game was not purchased.

Vice Cry is odd; it appears to be a mistake, but it is weird given it is a mod that improves Vice City and does not convert it to anywhere else. Do they not want people to improve the games? Why? Is it just that they are confirming the trilogy because Rockstar will do it and they do not want competition? A bit suspicious but well, what can we do?

VCS and LCS, yeah, that is a bit of a gray area. I am not sure if those mods require the player to own copies of the games (I believe VCS does not), so I can see why they were upset. However, if they have no plans to port those two games to new platforms, they are wasting their time and, in essence, pulling a Nintendo.

However, there is one reason why I am upset about the entire situation. Why take down mods that are, in the end, essentially harmless? Why would anyone go to the trouble of installing a mod that has the potential to be less polished or stable than a dedicated Rockstar Games (proper) remaster? (rethorical)

I mean, a lot of people would, but I believe most of their customers prefer an easy solution that is just a few clicks away.

 

So, why are they upset with those mods? I just don’t get it.

Edited July 17, 2021 by BlackScout
btw I don't agree with this at all

[const96b]

On 7/17/2021 at 7:45 PM, Zapper said:

Then it's 100% Hot Coffee that completely changed Rockstar's attitude towards PC modding. Sam Houser went on record saying how mentally and emotionally draining the trials were.

More recently Rockstar, possibly to stop RedM (Red Dead RP) from growing made it so CFX can’t host the files on it unlike with FiveM so they had to use peer to peer which resulted in very slow download speed for caches. That shows their stance towards modders.

I could think of plenty of ways to prevent mods like that from being released. With official mod support we could have had a healthy modding experiency, tools to build mods on day 1, easier installation and uninstallation methods and overall a whole different experience (both in SP and MP).

[DeltaV20]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:33 PM, Zapper said:

I don't know about how Rockstar were before the Hot-Coffee mod fiasco but it very much makes they became hostile towards modders after it.

hot-coffee mod drastically decreased San andreas sales but still it sold more than 25M copies  , SA got rated adult only , copies got removed from more than 80% retailers etc etc this pretty much proves R* & T2 hella hates modding community (probably north too or maybe not), i will say the sh*t is coming from R NYC and T2 since they make most of all decisions 

[BS_BlackScout]

I forgot to add...
_

The change about new content being "prohibited" is a bit scary. This I can 100% remember was not in the original text.
In fact, I remember quite the opposite. I remember seeing that it would be fine if you made new, original content and that they wouldn’t be opposed to it.
So, what does that mean now? Should gta5-mods, gtagarage, etc bring itself down for the sake of following their DMCA guidelines? What is right and what is wrong? That’s kind of f*cked…

Edited July 17, 2021 by BlackScout

[gts.]

Biggest sh*t move ever done by Take-Two and Rockstar Games against old GTA titles and the modding scene. Sad and dark day today. And I'm sure it will get worse with the hours passing out.

[DeltaV20]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:42 PM, Jeansowaty said:

So I suppose I should be taken down and annihialated by some lawyers because my profile picture is a custom GTA IV OC?

maybe , T2 is very very serious towards there trademarks, game footage and most of every stuff  for e.g gorillaz music video , F1 using gta boxart style , R* intel case etc etc 

*2017 drama flashbacks*

[Grichka Bogdanoff]

Great to see GTA Series make a post about it.

 

 

I linked this thread + other posts to some famous websites. Hope they pick this story ASAP.

[Jinx.]

Don't let them know Rockstar posted videos of conversions on their site before. They will get DMCA'd by Take 2 2!

 

https://www.rockstargames.com/newswire/article/9k124883893o15/original-gta-map-imported-into-gtaiv-found-on-youtube

 

GTA 1 map port to IV, also mentions GTA 3 map port to IV

 

https://www.rockstargames.com/newswire/article/4k412883829854/zombie-invasion-mod-for-gtaiv-pc.html

 

Zombie Invasion mod

 

https://www.rockstargames.com/newswire/article/89k8a554571344/found-on-youtube-la-noire-c64-breakdancing-niko-more.html

 

Video of GTA IV with mods

 

They also showcased IV:SA, IIRC, but I can't find the article.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Jinx.

[Tez2]

On 7/17/2021 at 7:50 PM, BlackScout said:

I find it difficult to judge this situation because I have no knowledge of the original text or what exactly happened back then because I simply do not remember, but I will do my best to express my feelings about this.

This is the original text from this article

Spoiler

Rockstar Games believes in reasonable fan creativity, and, in particular, wants creators to showcase their passion for our games. After discussions with Take-Two, Take-Two has agreed that it generally will not take legal action against third-party projects involving Rockstar’s PC games that are single-player, non-commercial, and respect the intellectual property (IP) rights of third parties. This does not apply to (i) multiplayer or online services; (ii) tools, files, libraries, or functions that could be used to impact multiplayer or online services, or (iii) use or importation of other IP (including other Rockstar IP) in the project. This is not a license, and it does not constitute endorsement, approval, or authorization of any third-party project. Take-Two reserves the right to object to any third-party project, or to revise, revoke and/or withdraw this statement at any time in their own discretion. This statement does not constitute a waiver of any rights that Take-Two may have with respect to third-party projects.

The new addition is this

Quote

(iv) making new games, stories, missions, or maps.

 

[Kirsty]

We're keeping an eye on the situation; I really feel for the modding community and the work they have put into their projects, but with it being a weekend it seems too early to tell if this is a full policy change like GSV mention, or to protect IP due to an upcoming announcement.  So far it seems that DMCA has only impacted GTA5Mods and ModDB. There's been no C&D to authors, and downloads are still accessible here and elsewhere. 

[_MK_]

Oh they "showcased" a few mods years ago on their newswire wow, that means so much I'm actually dropping tears here omg rockstar i love for being so modding friendly by showing us a few mods on your site really means a lot thnx now don't forget to ban every mod out there and send your PI's all the way to the door step of every modder.

 

[DeltaV20]

IV:SA , VC RAGE also removed from moddb 

[Herbanov]

Just when I thought they couldn't get any worse, they come up with this. Screw that vile company and screw Strauss sh*tneck.

[Zeneric]

RIP.

[_MK_]

Lets be honest here, what exactly do you expect from these two? Rockstar themself without no modders or mods involved, made a SP DLC and told their fans about it publicly and what happened later on? they saw their own single player DLC as a threat to GTAO and ended up with them chopping up their own DLC for GTAO just so instead of playing SP you play Online and ya'll surprised they doing this to mods?

[DuPz0r]

R* & T2: Dont port old content, dont import new content.

 

DuPz0r: Builds RDR2 maps using only RDR2 content.

 

It's a shame it's come to this. R* know that half the fanbase that buy PC versions of the games later want it for the mods. If they started making real content for their games again, and not drip feed this online crap to us, maybe we wouldnt need to mod the game for them. 

 

It's clear that they dont care for their fans anymore, it's all about money. No wonder all the head developers left.

#hotcoffee

[HackMan128]

And sooner or later a new game will appear, and people will buy, play it and adore. Feed the TakeTroll.

[RooST4R]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:38 PM, HackMan128 said:

And sooner or later a new game will appear, and people will buy, play it and adore. Feed the TakeTroll.

Man, what a surprise that would be if a new game appeared

[HackMan128]

It is so sad anyway. Curious what triggered them so bad again?.

[Rhoda]

The question has to be asked, would a new game ease the pain that modders are no doubt feeling? I'm somehow doubtful, even if it would be lapped up by fans and critics. This recent move is a heartbreaking swipe to everybody involved in the scene, and it's a further stifling towards the creativity and expression of those who have spent the best part of two decades working on something they love for a franchise that up until fairly recently supported and encouraged these efforts. It's a great shame.

[NightmanCometh96]

Honestly, even to this day, I think the OpenIV fiasco in 2017 has left me too jaded to truly be infuriated with R*/TakeTwo's increasingly blatant anti-modding stance. It's a disappointing and scummy thing to do (regardless of their legal right to "protect" their IPs to this extent), but not at all surprising anymore. I don't even think review bombing every R* game on Steam like what happened to V in 2017 will change anything. Sad as it is, I don't blame anyone for choosing to leave the modding community after this.

 

As someone who doesn't believe the Trilogy remake rumours, I think TT's only motive here is to have as many people as possible think to themselves "I can't download x mod for GTA x anymore? That sucks! Guess I'll just play GTAO and buy a shark card instead". And (more than) a few people will probably be gullible enough fall for it, too. As much as its success led to R* being able to take their time with RDR2 (and likely every game they release going forward), things like this are why I really wish Online didn't take off the way it did. And as someone who absolutely adores RDR2 to the point of it being one of my favorite games of all time, that says a lot.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by NightmanCometh96

[wwwwandrarijaz]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:46 PM, Afowlia said:

If the GTA Trilogy theory is true, then I can imagine that sacrificing some of the biggest GTA mods is worth it for some shoddy and lazily made remakes/remasters.

They rather facking be working on remasters/new game

Edited July 17, 2021 by LolPacino
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