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Sean in RDO really screws up the time line.


Buddy Hightower
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On 7/21/2021 at 5:54 PM, CosmicBuffalo said:

Rockstar is not lazy...as far as I know, its very a detailed labor intensive process to change their maps.  In order to update the game past story mode, I am guessing that would require an entirely new game.  Fingers crossed they will do it, but they should have made the game past story mode to begin with.

 

The world remaining static is more of a symptom natural limits.  It would be awesome for instance that you could shoot a guy in strawberry and then come back the next day and his grave is in the graveyard.  Or have a genuinely evolving world sign me up.  Its seems that is not really possible to create with this level of detail.  It seems the technical limits to create a world that can bring the changes you are suggesting are not reality at this point.  I do not think the fact that the world is limited is a basis that time is not moving forward at a normal rate.

 

That is why I use my imagination! Suspension of disbelief is essential, if you're a role-player, and it's easy. I did it all the time when I was a kid. You just play pretend. To me, time is progressing, my character is evolving...hell I might just age him up one day, the "change appearance" feature only costs 400 in-game bucks. The game is imperfect, so what, I always do all I can to make it perfect, more immersive and more exciting with my imagination. I even limit myself where the game doesn't, do little things like wait till I get to town to re-equip my hat if I lose it.  The developers promised us an evolving game world, a world that changes dynamically...well, that hasn't happened; but at least in my mind time is moving forward.

 

Who knows, maybe they'll surprise us with a dlc that includes stuff from the early 1900s! Probably won't happen but one can hope, right? We can use more guns and stuff to buy.

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On 7/21/2021 at 5:16 PM, Assblaster said:

 

Suspension of disbelief is essential, if you're a role-player, and it's easy.

 

For some. My suspension skills are very poor. Always have been. Unfortunately it's not something that can be taught. I wish I had that ability. Can't tell you how many good looking games that I've steered away from just because of the premise.

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@CosmicBuffalo I'm not saying that they have to update anything large scale. You cannot say that because we bought a moonshine shack that must mean time I'd moving forward. The shack has been in that location since the game was released.

All I'm saying it makes more sense that the game is moving forward at a slower pace than years. 

 

Let's say you are right and that because of daily challenges, Christmas, and Halloween we are on year 3?* Of online. If the game is still around in 20 years IRL and we go thru 20 more holidays does that mean RDO will take place in 1919? Of course not that would be silly. I think we are honestly overthinking this whole issue. The game should have taken place either way before story, or right after so we wouldn't even think of this problem. 

 

 

Also sidenote. I think the world will eventually evolve into the story map of the epilogue. That's the only reason I could see why those houses for sale were built. For homeless characters of course!

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On 7/21/2021 at 8:20 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

Do you really consider Gus a change to the world? He is just an NPC in the world. 

 

Was he in the game 2 years ago?

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On 7/21/2021 at 6:12 PM, AmyStone said:

 

Was he in the game 2 years ago?

Jake wasn't in the game 2 years ago either. 

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On 7/21/2021 at 9:11 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

More than one cut scène  - you can do contact missions for him from and to the trailer.

and that is still supposed to be in 2012

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/21/2021 at 6:16 PM, StyxTx said:

Apparently the cost for putting out quality content is also too high to be worth it.

I would imagine the cost to add content to RDO is much higher than GTAO.  I would love know to the cost of blood money v tuners update.

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/21/2021 at 6:43 PM, MrHarlow said:

Let's say you are right and that because of daily challenges, Christmas, and Halloween we are on year 3?* Of online. If the game is still around in 20 years IRL and we go thru 20 more holidays does that mean RDO will take place in 1919? Of course not that would be silly. I think we are honestly overthinking this whole issue. The game should have taken place either way before story, or right after so we wouldn't even think of this problem. 

From a technical perspective it would be very difficult to take a game like Red Dead and program it to progress in the natural way.  So, I view the fact that map is not progressing as a techincal problem rather than proof that time is going slowly.  Just think about it this way, as more time goes on the RDO would also have to continuously slow down at a faster rate or flat out pause so that we never make it 1899. R* choose to drop us into 1898.  It has been two years since beta ended.  So therefore, we are within the story mode time.  In a year, we will have past the story...and the map will still be the same.  The game will never progresses further than the limits implemented.  However, time wise, we are moving forward each update they release will keep the journey going.   The game ends when R* stops making updates.  However, time will continue on in the game.  Until R* ends support which they just did with GTAO on PS3.

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I don't think it only comes down to what's a technically practical way to make a game. It's also about what's a practical way to play a game. The fact that some things don't change means we get to do things over and over. If things truly behaved exactly as in the real world then certain things would be impossible. You'd only be able to play through the story missions once and even more crazy would be the fact that they could only be played once by one set of players. If you ever got killed in the game you would have to create a new character and restart. So the whole thread is a kind of pointless discussion to have. Time passes or it would be impossible for anything to move but some things don't change or they reset. That's it.

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On 7/22/2021 at 3:46 AM, AmyStone said:

If things truly behaved exactly as in the real world then certain things would be impossible. You'd only be able to play through the story missions once and even more crazy would be the fact that they could only be played once by one set of players. If you ever got killed in the game you would have to create a new character and restart.

I'm all for that. Doing the same stuff over and over is boring to me. Autodeath makes it a lot more challenging. Sure wouldn't be as many Rambos out there. Plus, as it is now, you reach a point where your character may as well be dead since the only way to have any incentive to play is to create a new character and do everything all over again.

 

I'm for anything that makes the game more challenging.

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Buddy Hightower
On 7/21/2021 at 4:54 PM, CosmicBuffalo said:

In order to update the game past story mode,

That's just it though, it wouldn't be past story mode, there are changes during story mode that we are not seeing. So therefore, time has not moved, yet.

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Buddy Hightower
On 7/21/2021 at 6:12 PM, AmyStone said:

 

Was he in the game 2 years ago?

Sure, do you think he was just born?

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/22/2021 at 9:47 AM, Buddy Hightower said:

That's just it though, it wouldn't be past story mode, there are changes during story mode that we are not seeing. So therefore, time has not moved, yet.

No, as explained, your lack of change on the map is not proof your theory is correct.  There are other more reasonable explanations on why the map is not changing.  There are multiple things disproving your theory.  So, your theory fails.  Its a wild theory based on GTAO not being consistent with GTAV which has been proven wrong.  Explicitly by R*.  

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Buddy Hightower
On 7/22/2021 at 8:54 AM, CosmicBuffalo said:

No, as explained, your lack of change on the map is not proof your theory is correct.  There are other more reasonable explanations on why the map is not changing.  There are multiple things disproving your theory.  So, your theory fails.  Its a wild theory based on GTAO not being consistent with GTAV which has been proven wrong.  Explicitly by R*.  

So you think it's 1903 in game?

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/22/2021 at 10:49 AM, Buddy Hightower said:

So you think it's 1903 in game?

Its 1890.  I am using the start date as the end of beta.  If you use beta as the start date, its about to be 1891.

 

Excuse me 1900 and 1901.

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Buddy Hightower
On 7/22/2021 at 10:24 AM, CosmicBuffalo said:

Its 1890.  I am using the start date as the end of beta.  If you use beta as the start date, its about to be 1891.

lol, you're lost - have a good one.

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On 7/22/2021 at 11:24 AM, CosmicBuffalo said:

Its 1890.  I am using the start date as the end of beta.  If you use beta as the start date, its about to be 1891.

Can't be...There is a grave stone in Emerald Ranch with a death date of August 1898

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/22/2021 at 11:31 AM, 4eyedcoupe said:

Can't be...There is a grave stone in Emerald Ranch with a death date of August 1898

Right math error, this what happens when you post while driving..lol

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Buddy Hightower
On 7/22/2021 at 10:24 AM, CosmicBuffalo said:

Its 1890.  I am using the start date as the end of beta.  If you use beta as the start date, its about to be 1891.

 

Excuse me 1900 and 1901.

Can't be, Sean would be dead.

It's 1898 just like it was on Day 1 of the beta.

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/22/2021 at 1:31 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

Can't be, Sean would be dead.

It's 1898 just like it was on Day 1 of the beta.

It can be...around December, the games paths will have completely separated as GTAO paths did in 2014.

 

Spoiler

 

 

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Buddy Hightower
On 7/22/2021 at 1:08 PM, CosmicBuffalo said:

It can be...around December, the games paths will have completely separated as GTAO paths did in 2014.

 

I'm going to go ahead and save this post. I'll reply to it again when the blackwater heist comes out and the game moves to 1899.

C-ya then.

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On 7/22/2021 at 4:19 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

I'm going to go ahead and save this post. I'll reply to it again when the blackwater heist comes out and the game moves to 1899.

C-ya then.

If time is moving along, as some claim, it is still screwed up. Considering in game 48 real life minutes equals a day, that means time advances about 30 in game days in one real life day which boils down to about 30 game years in 3 real time years since the game was released.

 

So, in 30 game years nothing has really changed. Still living in camp with a character that has not progressed at all, still slaving for others. Still no horse fences. None of the buildings from the epilogue. Armadillo is still a garbage pit. The people from the story should be a lot older by now, if not dead.

 

Some people see that as advancement, others don't.

 

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/22/2021 at 5:19 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

I'm going to go ahead and save this post. I'll reply to it again when the blackwater heist comes out and the game moves to 1899.

C-ya then.

Save it.

 

On 7/22/2021 at 5:52 PM, StyxTx said:

If time is moving along, as some claim, it is still screwed up. Considering in game 48 real life minutes equals a day, that means time advances about 30 in game days in one real life day which boils down to about 30 game years in 3 real time years since the game was released.

 

So, in 30 game years nothing has really changed. Still living in camp with a character that has not progressed at all, still slaving for others. Still no horse fences. None of the buildings from the epilogue. Armadillo is still a garbage pit. The people from the story should be a lot older by now, if not dead.

 

Some people see that as advancement, others don't.

 

Its not a claim that time is moving forward.  It the logical assumption that time is moving forward in real terms.  A theory that this is not the default needs to be supported by proof.  Which those making that claim have very little more than their feelings.  The essentially static map is not proof of lack of time progression.  The 48 mintue long day is a mechanic to ensure that a player can experience all the in game variety of night and day within a reasonable amount of time.  Not everyone want to log on twice in a day to experinence night and day.  There are animals that spawn strictly at night and birds rarely spawn at night besides owls.  The in game time has nothing to do with progression but if it did, it would prove time is moving forward...not repeating and certainly not paused or going slow. 

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On 7/22/2021 at 2:52 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

Sure, do you think he was just born?

 

Where on the map was he 2 years ago?

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On 7/22/2021 at 6:42 PM, AmyStone said:

 

Where on the map was he 2 years ago?

If time is moving forward like you claim, Sean should already be dead. So how does he have new missions in year 1901? 

 

Why would R* add missions to dead characters if time is that quickly? Wouldn't it make more sense to add the missions to new or alive characters to continue the story? 

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Time moves forward a little bit with every update. The updates are probably supposed to be like a month apart. Just like any game, you can roam around and do what you want but time doesnt progress unless you do the missions. So until we get new missions, we are probably a couple months into 1898.

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/22/2021 at 9:44 PM, MrHarlow said:

If time is moving forward like you claim, Sean should already be dead. So how does he have new missions in year 1901? 

 

Why would R* add missions to dead characters if time is that quickly? Wouldn't it make more sense to add the missions to new or alive characters to continue the story? 

R* has precedent for not updating its online map with GTAO to jive with story mode changes.  Is the FIB building blown up in GTAO? No, its in perfect shape.   Is the trailer that you ram into the river with Trevor still there? Yes.  I actually downloaded the update and logged into check this stuff....lol.   Also, R* adding a dead character in the casino update, Chen or something.  If claiming that the RDO map has not changed is proof of no time progression, well, again the map has been changed.  Do not try to move the goal post as hightower did when it was pointed out.  Oh thats just an npc" What a joke...Harriet is permanent location on the map that has no story mode equivalent.  These are two permanent physical locations added on the map.  The map has clearly changed with Harriet and Gus.  Gus has taken over for the trapper.  Are we meant to believe the trapper bought his outposts from Gus a mere 6 months later or something?  Or that Harriet simply moved out a year later and nothing is known of her in story mode?  The point is that online and story mode does not have to make sense or be consistent.  R* uses story mode assets to save on costs because creating these games are very expensive and labor intensive.  Sean was used because he was a likable character.  Jake was used because not really sure, they probably did not want to pay Sadie more money or something.  

 

0_0.jpg?downsize=888:*&output-quality=80

 

I forgot out this but did a little research.  It seems that the GTAO timeline moved past story mode even with its many flaws and conflicts when Benny's motorworks was added.  Which similar to Harriet, added a noticeable addition to the map that was not included in story mode.

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On 7/22/2021 at 9:56 PM, CosmicBuffalo said:

R* has precedent for not updating its online map with GTAO to jive with story mode changes.  Is the FIB building blown up in GTAO? No, its in perfect shape.   Is the trailer that you ram into the river with Trevor still there? Yes.  I actually downloaded the update and logged into check this stuff....lol.   Also, R* adding a dead character in the casino update, Chen or something.  If claiming that the RDO map has not changed is proof of no time progression, well, again the map has been changed.  Do not try to move the goal post as hightower did when it was pointed out.  Oh thats just an npc" What a joke...Harriet is permanent location on the map that has no story mode equivalent.  These are two permanent physical locations added on the map.  The map has clearly changed with Harriet and Gus.  Gus has taken over for the trapper.  Are we meant to believe the trapper bought his outposts from Gus a mere 6 months later or something?  Or that Harriet simply moved out a year later and nothing is known of her in story mode?  The point is that online and story mode does not have to make sense or be consistent.  R* uses story mode assets to save on costs because creating these games are very expensive and labor intensive.  Sean was used because he was a likable character.  Jake was used because not really sure, they probably did not want to pay Sadie more money or something.  

 

0_0.jpg?downsize=888:*&output-quality=80

 

I forgot out this but did a little research.  It seems that the GTAO timeline moved past story mode even with its many flaws and conflicts when Benny's motorworks was added.  Which similar to Harriet, added a noticeable addition to the map that was not included in story mode.

I'm not moving goal posts at all. I think that the game is moving forward but there's just not enough proof that the game has moved years besides Christmas events and daily challenges. 

 

What proof would you need that we are still in 1898? If we get a mission added and someone says that date does that contradict anything you say? If Thomas Downs starts giving us rancher missions does that mean anything? I fully understand that if the game DOES evolve Sean will still be a mission giver so new players can experience those missions. You cannot compare a game from 10 years ago using an older engine from 2 console generations to determine what R* can achieve. As a company they have the funds and the know how to make the map consistent with progression or they are lazy/incompetent. 

 

Unless R* releases hard evidence like they have with GTA V saying that a year or so has passed then we can say that both theories hold water. Like high tower said, if they release a black water incident of 1899 then what? 

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CosmicBuffalo
On 7/22/2021 at 11:18 PM, MrHarlow said:

I'm not moving goal posts at all. I think that the game is moving forward but there's just not enough proof that the game has moved years besides Christmas events and daily challenges. 

 

What proof would you need that we are still in 1898? If we get a mission added and someone says that date does that contradict anything you say? If Thomas Downs starts giving us rancher missions does that mean anything? I fully understand that if the game DOES evolve Sean will still be a mission giver so new players can experience those missions. You cannot compare a game from 10 years ago using an older engine from 2 console generations to determine what R* can achieve. As a company they have the funds and the know how to make the map consistent with progression or they are lazy/incompetent. 

 

Unless R* releases hard evidence like they have with GTA V saying that a year or so has passed then we can say that both theories hold water. Like high tower said, if they release a black water incident of 1899 then what? 

I would need something similar an to actual acknowledgment of the year as the 1898 award makes clear or Agent 14 says explicitly says in GTAO.  Otherwise we are moving forward in normal time just like GTAO and is clear as day to me with other awards...I mean I have done 5 resets on the weekly daily challenges award.  That's 100 weeks.  I am sorry unless you can offer a counter to this...the time has moved forward in a normal rate.  I think that GTAO is the only comparable game to give us insight.  And as much as I despise GTAO at this point, it is still being updated and is clearly getting more time from R* and stronger content than RDO and R* did they exact same thing with the online setting.  They set online prior to story mode.   And just for a quick laugh, I went to the FIB and the guy's trailer in my 100% story mode game.  The FIB building is being repaired there are boards and scaffolding on the windows that blow up.  Sadly, the guys trailer is there looking brand new.

 

Regarding a blackwater robbery, I would think unless story mode characters are invloved.  That it happens between the epilogue of after story mode.

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On 7/22/2021 at 10:32 PM, CosmicBuffalo said:

I would need something similar an to actual acknowledgment of the year as the 1898 award makes clear or Agent 14 says explicitly says in GTAO.  Otherwise we are moving forward in normal time just like GTAO and is clear as day to me with other awards...I mean I have done 5 resets on the weekly daily challenges award.  That's 100 weeks.  I am sorry unless you can offer a counter to this...the time has moved forward in a normal rate.  I think that GTAO is the only comparable game to give us insight.  And as much as I despise GTAO at this point, it is still being updated and is clearly getting more time from R* and stronger content than RDO and R* did they exact same thing with the online setting.  They set online prior to story mode.   And just for a quick laugh, I went to the FIB and the guy's trailer in my 100% story mode game.  The FIB building is being repaired there are boards and scaffolding on the windows that blow up.  Sadly, the guys trailer is there looking brand new.

See awards and daily challenges are only there to keep you playing the game. They are just a means for gold. If that was the case a some people would be in a whole different year than you based solely on dailies. 

 

Also, Harriot cannot be hard proof as there are multiple npcs in the game who we do not see in single player. I understand that GTA v online has moved forward and I'm agreeing with you that rdro is moving forward! I just want them to update the game world to show that. Just like many online games do. Just look at games like World of Warcraft. The game is constantly evolving as time goes on. Or even elder scrolls online. 

 

Either we are still in 1898 or R* is just wants to minimally update RDO in the smallest way possible. If R* releases an update and it lines up with your theory I will eat my words and I will tell you that you were correct. Honestly I want you to be right but I just want the Gameworld to reflect it somehow. I cannot just roleplay in my head that we are in 1900 I want to see that.

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