The Red Dead Online B*tch & Moan Thread

[RyuNova]

1 hour ago, DentureDynamite said:

I just want to know: WHY on earth can't I discard bait (herbivore and predator) from my inventory?

 

 

Why can't we drop items on the ground for other players to collect? Don't give me that rubbish about t clogging up the game, just make them vanish after a minute. Its REALLY gonna break the game if I can give my friend some ammo or some cooked meat.

[DentureDynamite]

^^ Good point--and would be very easy to despawn after the player reaches a certain distance from the ammo.

 

R* already has to have some kind of system in place for despawning uncollected arrows, tomahawks, bolas, etc. shot/thrown by players.

 

It's a decent distance, but you can't go too far and expect what you lost to still be there...

Edited September 1, 2020 by DentureDynamite

[IzzyBlues]

5 hours ago, StyxTx said:

Hm. I've never noticed those messages. I guess if someone is looking for things like that they will, but it is a game. Do you go out in the real world on horseback and play cowboy? No, you turn on a machine. Therefore, it is nothing more than a game. These are not real animals. They are not real people. They are digitized creations.

This. I mean I ain't trying to incite an argument here, but if you really wanted to take the high/moral stance and be that literal with it, you'd be very uncomfortable playing as Arthur and rolling with the gang considering a lot of the messed up sh*t they do. There is a point with some of the messages and historical standpoints that Dan Houser has made in interviews but that was the singleplayer portion of the game.

 

The online portion of the game is different. You are free to set your own story with your online character, and that's kind of the point of it. Hunt or don't hunt. Sedate or don't sedate. At the end of the day you're doing all of this to buy clothes and guns and sh*t and watch your money counter go up. Wanna know why? Because it's just a game.

[netnow66]

8 minutes ago, IzzyBlues said:

...you'd be very uncomfortable playing as Arthur and rolling with the gang considering a lot of the messed up sh*t they do. There is a point with some of the messages and historical standpoints that Dan Houser has made in interviews but that was the singleplayer portion of the game.

 

The online portion of the game is different. You are free to set your own story with your online character, and that's kind of the point of it. Hunt or don't hunt. Sedate or don't sedate. At the end of the day you're doing all of this to buy clothes and guns and sh*t and watch your money counter go up. Wanna know why? Because it's just a game.

...and that is why the single player was of no use to me as a long time game player. I had done it before. But RDO can be played the way that I want it.

[RyuNova]

22 minutes ago, DentureDynamite said:

^^ Good point--and would be very easy to despawn after the player reaches a certain distance from the ammo.

 

 

My friend loves Rifles and rocks the Long Scope Bolt Action Rifle like a f*cking champ. We bounce off each other with him playing Sniper/Cover while I am closer with Pistols and Shotguns, we have done this since we started playing video games together, he loves nailing those perfect shots but sometimes he runs out of ammo or forgets to buy some before missions, I would love to be able to drop my ammo I don't use for him.

 

We can't sell cooked meats, ammo or tonics so why can't we give it away?

[Commander S]

16 hours ago, IzzyBlues said:

It's just a game my guy. Best not to think so deeply about these things.

 

See, while I get that you can just hand-wave anything in a game like this, I personally like to get into the spirit of things, and engage with the fiction rather than ignoring it. Yeah, I could just shrug off the fact that the animals in the game aren't real, and so there's no reason to feel anything about killing them, but I think it suits my character to only do things like helping with research, or freeing them from poachers, so I've sworn off ever doing anything for Gus, or killing legendary animals. Same as how I avoid killing bounties (and only take on folks like murderers - 'robbing Leviticus Cornwall' is a victimless crime, IMO! ), or why I don't do Trader/Moonshiner stuff: it doesn't fit my character, and I like that the game does let you do that (even though R* clearly thinks that players will do a bit of everything, regardless of how undefined/contradictory that might end up).

 

That said...

 

13 hours ago, Caffeination said:

If RDR2 was “just a game”, it wouldn’t be full of environmentalist and political messages, as well as commentary on the suffering human greed and self-importance causes.

 

Even the Moonshiner story takes a stance on something, and so does the naturalist role. Who is worse, a hunter that endangers species of animals that doesn’t deny what he’s doing is immoral, or a drug-addict who mixes opioids and forces animals to take them while deluding themselves they’re helping them? 
 

The game is bluntly asking us that question. 

 

 

...I think that's a stretch, personally - if anything, the whole Naturalist framing leans more towards Harriet rather than Gus. Researching animals is more involved and fleshed-out than hunting/selling them, the only side activities are dealing with poachers (and the game frames killing poachers as being just as acceptable as killing bandits - to the point where random poacher camps are literally handled as a variation of bandit hideouts), and things like reviving animals and using mercy kills (an ability you only unlock as a Naturalist, by doing stuff for Harriet) are registered as "honorable" by the game's morality system.

 

But then, Harriet isn't a "drug-addict" - not according to anything the game actually says, so that's just you putting a negative spin on things. And Gus isn't just some candid truth-teller who has no illusions about what he does, either. It's not some deep, morally-grey commentary on human selfishness, here - it's just a straightforward, well-worn 'slightly kooky do-gooder on one side, rich swaggering asshole on the other'. If this were a movie, it'd either end with Gus getting booted in the ass by a bison, or turning over a new leaf and helping Harriet study animals - it ain't that deep, and again, where the game does regard something as honorable, it's for doing things Harriet's way.

[Direwrath]

On 8/31/2020 at 2:32 PM, Caffeination said:

I can easily live without those skills, and Harriet’s methods of dosing animals with narcotics are inhumane, better to shoot them in the head than subjugate them to suffering and f*ck up with the food chain that seriously harms the predators bound to eat the drugged animal. We constantly see that happen in real life.

I have to agree with the posts above, this is just a game, and as much as I have a hard time shooting a beaver just to get a pelt for a vest, the animal is not real. 

 

If this is to be looked at a bit more realistically.

It seems that the sedative that Harriet uses is probably going to be a natural blend of earth based ingredients, not processed with actual chemicals. Which means that the tonic will be easily absorbed into the animal and thus will be removed from it's system far easier and quicker than if they were using the chem based tranquilizers we have available now. As such, I doubt that there will be any dangerous effects for any of the predators that may decide to catch and feed on that animal later. It isn't like feeding chemical poison to rats and having a hawk die from ingesting that poison when it feeds on it's prey. The only real issue with it is the amount given, some animals are overly sensitive so sedation like the gators, and too much can stop their hearts. I think the amount we are forced to use is overkill, seriously.

 

The suffering the sedated animals would feel is also minimal and forgettable, you do realize that they are faced with life and death situations on a constant basis?

Our characters tranquilizing a deer will have little effect on how it survives into the next week, they move on from close call incidents like champions. it's how you can see a doe wandering about without a care even when she bears the usually horrendous scars from a pack of wolves she was able to escape. Give the animals credit, they are survivors, it's all they got.

 

But if we shoot that doe in the head, how are we to know that we won't be making a fawn an orphan? Same for the cougar, how are we to know that it may not have cubs hiding out in a nearby cave? Just killing the animal so we do not render it any unnecessary "fear" might do more harm than good in the big picture.

This is if we are actually looking at this in a more realistic light. 

What Harriet is doing, besides annoying us and spraying us in the face because we had to defend our lives, is honestly an honorable thing. She is passionately trying to understand these animals at a time when they were mere commodities to the general public.

 

@Caffeination I'm not trying to seem mean, and I prefer to watch these animals from afar as well, but I don't think there is an agenda in this. To me the Naturalist role is just something that fits in the scheme of the game and gives more peaceful players a reason to interact with the wildlife that doesn't involve getting chewed on by nasty, big, teeth. This is just an observation from a longtime animal lover. Don't take my reply in a bad way.

 

14 hours ago, StyxTx said:

Do you go out in the real world on horseback and play cowboy?

Lol, I am embarrassed to say that if I had the chance, I probably would. I always wanted to work at places like Tombstone or Branson, get all dressed up and play the part. 

[STNeish]

I have to say, I'm growing weary of these missions to go tag legendary animals for crazy lady.  Go into the mission, tag an elk.  It's up at Colter.  I follow the herd, spot the elk, and start tagging it... but there's a dozen poachers all shooting at me.  If I don't stop to deal with them, they kill me.  If I DO stop to kill them, the elk gets away and the mission ends.  Really starting to piss me off.

[Caffeination]

Here we go.

 

 

[Patrickadizzle]

The AFK farming that is happening in PvP modes is utter bullsh*t. Hardcore mode, races, takedown, it doesn't matter. Sometimes 3/4 of the server is just sitting in spawn and doing whatever little movements they have been scripted to do to avoid the AFK timer to farm gold.

 

Not my video, but this is exactly what I am seeing every time I try PvP. On both sides. It seriously does not get more pathetic than this.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Patrickadizzle

[Lonely-Martin]

5 minutes ago, Patrickadizzle said:

The AFK farming that is happening in PvP modes is utter bullsh*t. Hardcore mode, races, takedown, it doesn't matter. Sometimes 3/4 of the server is just sitting in spawn and doing whatever little movements they have been scripted to do to avoid the AFK timer to farm gold.

 

Not my video, but this is exactly what I am seeing every time I try PvP. On both sides. It seriously does not get more pathetic than this.

 

 

It'll happen regardless of course, as GTA shows too often especially during 2x/3x weeks. But I feel it's added to here as players can't choose the game they want and think they might as well do nothing on the one's they dislike and await landing in the map they wanted to play.

 

We need more freedom to choose and the ability to host and kick the lazy gits that take up space in a game and ruin it by doing nothing. 

[RyuNova]

13 minutes ago, Patrickadizzle said:

The AFK farming that is happening in PvP modes is utter bullsh*t.

 

I loved it when the Lester/Hanger glitch happened in GTAO. Just Lobbies of people walking in circles ripe for the killing.

[Nerfgoth]

Effing bulls*it that predators in the game not attacking the npc! Dragged a Sun Gator to the saloon in St Denis and it did not attack the guests!

[yeezy203]

40 minutes ago, Nerfgoth said:

Effing bulls*it that predators in the game not attacking the npc! Dragged a Sun Gator to the saloon in St Denis and it did not attack the guests!

Yup. Found this out on a poacher mission trying to drag a pack of wolves chasing me into the poacher camp and the wolves continued to focus on me!! Very disappointing and unrealistic. Also, if a bear is chasing me in free roam it will stop and back off if an NPC is coming toward us

[DentureDynamite]

10 hours ago, STNeish said:

I have to say, I'm growing weary of these missions to go tag legendary animals for crazy lady.  Go into the mission, tag an elk.  It's up at Colter.  I follow the herd, spot the elk, and start tagging it... but there's a dozen poachers all shooting at me.  If I don't stop to deal with them, they kill me.  If I DO stop to kill them, the elk gets away and the mission ends.  Really starting to piss me off.

Yeah--similar reason why my first Bounty hunter mission was my last.

 

R* builds amazing worlds, but really doesn't have a clue when it comes to creating good game play.

Edited September 2, 2020 by DentureDynamite

[DentureDynamite]

2 hours ago, Nerfgoth said:

Effing bulls*it that predators in the game not attacking the npc! Dragged a Sun Gator to the saloon in St Denis and it did not attack the guests!

Ugh; I know what you mean--even in their own turf, it takes a fair amount of effort (and time/risk) to get alligators to chomp on an NPC, rather than you, the player (don't ask me how I know that lol).

 

Even then, alligators only take one fast, limited bite and trot off (like they've done their duty)--as opposed to when they attack you: more than one bite and kind of 'flinging' you around in their mouth.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by DentureDynamite

[Commander S]

12 hours ago, Direwrath said:

 

@Caffeination I'm not trying to seem mean, and I prefer to watch these animals from afar as well, but I don't think there is an agenda in this. To me the Naturalist role is just something that fits in the scheme of the game and gives more peaceful players a reason to interact with the wildlife that doesn't involve getting chewed on by nasty, big, teeth. This is just an observation from a longtime animal lover. Don't take my reply in a bad way.

 

 

...thanks for putting into words something that I like about the Naturalist activities, but couldn't quite put my finger on: it's basically a non-lethal alternative to hunting, for those who want to interact with the wildlife in the game, without having to kill/skin it. In the early days, the best I could do with, say, having to kill a wolf in self-defence would be to sell it at the butcher (at least it's not wasteful, if it'll feed some folks!) - but now, there's something cool about being able to sight/track something, tag it, and then let it go.

 

< realises this is too much positivity for the B&M thread >

 

It's also a way of adding 'peaceful' shooting to a R* game, where all gameplay has to fit into three simple activities: 1) travel around the map (by horse, car, etc.), 2) shoot stuff, and 3) press a single button to interact with a thing. So Naturalist is basically exactly the same as regular hunting, except it's 'consequence-free' hunting - and instead of holding down the button to skin an animal (and selling animal parts), you hold down a button to sample an animal (and sell the samples). Genius!

 

(and you see those same limitations come up again in the poacher missions, where the only way to deal with them isn't to hogtie them, or scare them off - just murder the lot of them, because the main way of interacting with people in a R*-style open-world game is by firing guns at them...)

[kcole4001]

4 hours ago, Caffeination said:

Here we go.

 

 

That one is because your character is drunk.

[kcole4001]

24 minutes ago, Commander S said:

 

 

...

 

It's also a way of adding 'peaceful' shooting to a R* game, where all gameplay has to fit into three simple activities: 1) travel around the map (by horse, car, etc.), 2) shoot stuff, and 3) press a single button to interact with a thing. So Naturalist is basically exactly the same as regular hunting, except it's 'consequence-free' hunting - .....

It can also be extremely inefficient hunting.

This is where we see the biggest difference between controller and mouse/keyboard implementation.

Try sedating a pronghorn anywhere near a hill of any kind in New Austin without assisted aim of a controller.

 

Manual aiming while chasing a rocket powered pronghorn over and around rocks while your own mount is doing it's best to frustrate your aim is quite infuriating.

The deer runs full speed around all obstacles while the horse will usually just stop and fidget at the first low flat rock it encounters.

The bushes and rocks will often block shots even while using deadeye, as well as the deadeye shots seeming to be much less effective at sedating the animal than manually aimed shots (which are all but impossible through rocky terrain).

Trying to catch them in more open areas is the solution, but even the cacti can block you there.

I gave up after getting 2 of each and never went after them again, it's just not worth the time.

And that basically sums up what I got from Harriet's role, it's just not worth the trouble.

I was hoping for much better perks, for instance I hate bounty hunting, but improved eagle eye made it worth doing, the Naturalist role lacks something that counterbalances the hassle.

 

Another example of deadeye sedative shots being less effective is when encountering the Florida Panther during a moonshine or hideout mission in Lakay.

Twice in the same morning I encountered the panther, first was a poison the still mission, second was during a hideout almost immediately after the still mission, both times in Lakay.

 

Both times I deadeyed the panther and got 5-6 shots into it, it latched on to me and got shook off, I peppered it with 5-6 more shots and was killed during the second mauling and the panther disappeared.

The sedative rounds didn't seem to have any effect on it, usually with a cougar after half a dozen shots they will slink off and you can pursue, but even 10-12 didn't deter the panther at all.

 

Anyway, just griping on what feels poorly implemented.

 

===========================================

 

Regarding the question of the morality of hunting, the 'poachers' aren't really poachers, just contract hunters.

Their hunting is no different than what players do to fill their camps.

They're not bandits, or LeMoyne Raiders, they're just hunters.

Making them out to be inherently bad is...strange.

The game justifying wholesale killing of them is really strange when taken out of context of Harriet's mission.

They're given dialog that makes it sound like they enjoy it just for the sake of shooting animals, which i agree is not the most savoury of motives, but they're not just leaving the carcasses to rot, so for the game to characterize them as possibly 'evil' is quite a stretch.

 

It doesn't feel fully thought through.

Edited September 2, 2020 by kcole4001
details

[Commander S]

17 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

It can also be extremely inefficient hunting.

This is where we see the biggest difference between controller and mouse/keyboard implementation.

Try sedating a pronghorn anywhere near a hill of any kind in New Austin without assisted aim of a controller.

 

Manual aiming while chasing a rocket powered pronghorn over and around rocks while your own mount is doing it's best to frustrate your aim is quite infuriating.

The deer runs full speed around all obstacles while the horse will usually just stop and fidget at the first low flat rock it encounters.

The bushes and rocks will often block shots even while using deadeye, as well as the deadeye shots seeming to be much less effective at sedating the animal than manually aimed shots (which are all but impossible through rocky terrain).

Trying to catch them in more open areas is the solution, but even the cacti can block you there.

 

 

I'm now having flashbacks to the time I found a legendary elk near Manzanita Post - and even with console/controller aim-assist, it was a real slog catching up to it, as it weaved through trees in a way my horse simply couldn't...

 

...aaand then I got attacked by some wolves, and by the time I'd dealt with them, the elk had escaped. At this point, unless it's in an open area, and it's something straightforward like a fox or something, I'm not bothering outside of Harriet missions.

 

Also on the 'did no-one think this through?' list: alligators that run into the water when sedated, or goddamn water snakes - and while you can technically go in and nudge them to sure, that's just inviting all the other alligators in town to turn you into lunch...

[CosmicBuffalo]

They add free aim and no cards, but equip everyone with a pump action shot gun that can hit from repeater distance.  So stupid, what a trash mode.

 

[kcole4001]

Just now, Commander S said:

 

 

I'm now having flashbacks to the time I found a legendary elk near Manzanita Post - and even with console/controller aim-assist, it was a real slog catching up to it, as it weaved through trees in a way my horse simply couldn't...

 

...aaand then I got attacked by some wolves, and by the time I'd dealt with them, the elk had escaped. At this point, unless it's in an open area, and it's something straightforward like a fox or something, I'm not bothering outside of Harriet missions.

 

Also on the 'did no-one think this through?' list: alligators that run into the water when sedated, or goddamn water snakes - and while you can technically go in and nudge them to sure, that's just inviting all the other alligators in town to turn you into lunch...

Include beavers on that list, you'll never find them far from some fairly deep water.

It's just stupid.

 

Snakes can be dealt with if you find them in the shallow pond north of StDenis to the west of the tracks, the water's shallow enough you just walk over and sample them, no wrangling required.

 

For gators I will always start shooting them in muddy areas away from water, and if they head toward the water get between them, and the gator will change course to avoid you.

 

It's potentially possible to herd the beavers this way, but very difficult to arrange and execute.

 

Again, the reward just nowhere near justifies the hassle or time.

[Caffeination]

1 hour ago, kcole4001 said:

That one is because your character is drunk.

I mean, that explains it, at least. But I only drink one cup of the moonshine before sale, and I always follow it up with a cup of coffee.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Caffeination

[RyuNova]

You know what does f*cking grind my gears? Why are I getting locked in the surprised animation set? Walking like I have sh*t myself/have stomach ache and cannot crouch. 

[kcole4001]

1 hour ago, Caffeination said:

I mean, that explains it, at least. But I only drink one cup of the moonshine before sale, and I always follow it up with a cup of coffee.

Usually it takes 3 or 4 to get to the stumbling while running state....

[No Homing]

When you're maxed out on all the samples from sighting missions, you can't see when the missions reset. That's horrible UI design...

[Direwrath]

13 hours ago, Caffeination said:

Here we go.

That is unreal.  

 

My complaint is why don't the animals start slowing down once they have a few rounds of sedative in them? You can fire six rounds straight into the side of a normal antelope and the darn thing takes off like a bullet and is hard to track?

And don't get me started on those gators! I will not leave an animal, even a digital one, to possibly drown in the water (shhh) so I have to go out after them and try to lasso them back onto land. Usually it hurts.

Why do these animals get that energy?

[kcole4001]

Checked it again today, 3 drinks of strong shine will make you stumble when trying to run, 4 will make you stagger.

It also effects your wagon driving, so be advised anyone who didn't know, you will crash your shine easier when drunk.

 

2 splashes in the wash barrel returns you to normal.

[Talisman_83]

48 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

Checked it again today, 3 drinks of strong shine will make you stumble when trying to run, 4 will make you stagger.

It also effects your wagon driving, so be advised anyone who didn't know, you will crash your shine easier when drunk.

 

2 splashes in the wash barrel returns you to normal.

One of these times I'm going to drive a full moonshine sale off a cliff drunk because f*ck it, it'd be way more fun than the perpetual grind

[Shadowfennekin]

Hey look, 1 out of 20 legendary pheromones actually f*cking worked!