Claude isn’t evil

[iloveclaude]

Claude is generally considered the most evil gta protag (by people who know gta games besides V and online exist)
But that’s unfair. Many other protegs have done way worse than him. The characters from gta V are domestic terrorists (by force but still) and niko Bellic was a human trafficker. 
Claudes only motive was revenge. Revenge on his abusive ex girlfriend that abused him sexually,physically,emotionally and verbally (and possibly r*ped him as well) .she also shot left him and left him for dead. He was MORE than justified in getting revenge on her. 
Claude only goes after people that f*ck him over first. The only person he betrayed is kenji. But by this point he had been screwed over by Salvatore,King Courtney and his ex girlfriend. Kenji had expressed his anger with Claude very openly before this point (unless you got stuck on the mission grand theft auto…which I did) so it wasn’t ridiculous for Claude to assume the worst of him and retaliate first as his former bosses had betrayed him without warning. People have also said that Claude was manipulated by Donald love to kill him but I don’t think that’s it. Could be true tho
Money isn’t his motive. Money is almost useless in gta 3.
Claude isn’t cold blooded or personality-less either. He’s mute so he doesn’t get much character development. He’s just closed off and emotionaless from trauma (compare his body language in gta 3 to San Andreas). 
He just does whatever job will get him to the goal of getting revenge on Catalina. 
Claude is just a victim of abuse trying to get his revenge and having to do some unsavory things to get there. He isn’t evil.

[GTAFanLuca]

Claude doesn't necessarily seem evil. He just does what he is told and keeps quiet, hoping that one day he would finally succeed in his goal of revenge. On the other hand, there are plenty of other protagonists who could be described as "evil".

 

Trevor from GTA 5 is a fully-fledged psychopath (yes, someone here will argue that he truly is a "sociopath", but he's still a psychopath in my eyes). He kills just as he wishes. I hate the fact that some missions in GTA 5 involve him randomly killing people just because his last remaining neuron got twisted in some way. And it's utterly ridiculous how Rockstar tried to balance his insanity with his "extraordinary loyalty".

 

Niko Bellic does have some evil in him as well. "I killed people, I smuggled people, I sold people". But he seems to regret his past and tries to move on (although he still remains a hypocrite. He was scarred by the loss of his comrades, yet he feels nothing about getting rid of "someone else's" comrades).

 

Toni Cipriani is also undoubtedly evil. He chopped up Giovanni Casa and served his remnants to his own deli and he also blew up a whole neighbourhood, potentially killing hundreds of people, just because he would get some money from Donald Love, who accused Toni before of being his own downfall. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by GTAFanLuca
Misspelling

[CynicalMexican]

Are any protags good then?

 

The only protagonist who seems to do some genuine good is probably CJ, since he takes down a crack empire and gets rid of a corrupt police force.

[Oztazmasr]

On 7/11/2021 at 7:52 PM, CynicalMexican said:

Are any protags good then?

 

The only protagonist who seems to do some genuine good is probably CJ, since he takes down a crack empire and gets rid of a corrupt police force.

but he robbed stores with catalina and robbed some crates from some old man along with other crimes

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:32 PM, Oztazmasr said:

but he robbed stores with catalina and robbed some crates from some old man along with other crimes

Apparently that old man was the leader of a right-wing militia group who was up to god knows what, so basically robbing from a faction leader.

[GTAFanLuca]

On 7/11/2021 at 8:52 PM, CynicalMexican said:

Are any protags good then?

 

The only protagonist who seems to do some genuine good is probably CJ, since he takes down a crack empire and gets rid of a corrupt police force.

Yes, all of them are both good and bad. Good because while they ensure their own rise and survival, they take out petty hoodlums, gangsters and scumbags. Bad because they have lackluster morality.

[Sombra]

character can do whatever the f*ck they want because bad things happened to them cliche

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:40 AM, sombrA said:

character can do whatever the f*ck they want because bad things happened to them cliche

Claude was bullied as a child

[iloveclaude]

On 7/12/2021 at 6:40 AM, sombrA said:

character can do whatever the f*ck they want because bad things happened to them cliche

Didn’t Catalina abuse Claude 

[Sombra]

Ok, let's really look at this -  If we go for a full canonical view, Claude's first showing with Catalina is in San Andreas where they seem to get along quite well based on the phonecalls Catalina leaves CJ. He appears in two SA missions, Wu Zi Mu and Farewell, My Love. He is not involved in the first mission cutscene, however in the second cutscene Catalina says she has a new love, and then some spiel about hitting a man with a frying pan while he sleeps - while it's not clear if she means this about Claude, if it is indeed aimed at him then this is the only instance of "abuse" right up until the moment she shoots him.

 

Is there any evidence of her abusing him " sexually,physically,emotionally and verbally (and possibly r*ped him as well)" - The Liberty Tree website had an article for Catalina which states she was involved in "a number of bank robberies in the southwest over the past three years." and that "The FBI have been after this woman for several years now, following a string of robberies in Texas and New Mexico, and now believe she may have relocated to Liberty City, possibly with an accomplice.". So it's evident that from 92-2001 they were committing robberies together - there is absolutely no indication of abuse until she betrays him.

 

Which then begs the question of does being betrayed by a criminal (and potentially hit with a frying pan) justify Claude's actions? Does that excuse him betraying Kenji? Let's talk side missions -  Rumpo Rampage, where Claude destroys the Hoods Gang Cars despite him being an associate of the Hoods. What about Marty Chonks missions? a bank manager, two thieves, Marty's wife and her lover, who have done absolutely nothing to Claude and are only murdered for monetary gain?

[AkshayKumar]

Claude roasts about a dozen Triads in a payphone mission, to me someone who is willing to put so many people through such horrible deaths is like a monster or heartless at the very least. The triads may have been thugs but in the mission they weren't even fighting back iirc just fleeing and yet they got chased and burnt down. Though this may have been done to make the mission easier 

 

Ultimately to me Claude may be cold hearted but its a crime fantasy game so it sort of comes with it I guess, wanting more noble heroes gets you Niko in GTA IV who is a great character but also frequently gets complaints of dissonance between his character and the game. 

[iloveclaude]

On 7/12/2021 at 12:50 PM, sombrA said:

Ok, let's really look at this -  If we go for a full canonical view, Claude's first showing with Catalina is in San Andreas where they seem to get along quite well based on the phonecalls Catalina leaves CJ. He appears in two SA missions, Wu Zi Mu and Farewell, My Love. He is not involved in the first mission cutscene, however in the second cutscene Catalina says she has a new love, and then some spiel about hitting a man with a frying pan while he sleeps - while it's not clear if she means this about Claude, if it is indeed aimed at him then this is the only instance of "abuse" right up until the moment she shoots him.

 

Is there any evidence of her abusing him " sexually,physically,emotionally and verbally (and possibly r*ped him as well)" - The Liberty Tree website had an article for Catalina which states she was involved in "a number of bank robberies in the southwest over the past three years." and that "The FBI have been after this woman for several years now, following a string of robberies in Texas and New Mexico, and now believe she may have relocated to Liberty City, possibly with an accomplice.". So it's evident that from 92-2001 they were committing robberies together - there is absolutely no indication of abuse until she betrays him.

 

Which then begs the question of does being betrayed by a criminal (and potentially hit with a frying pan) justify Claude's actions? Does that excuse him betraying Kenji? Let's talk side missions -  Rumpo Rampage, where Claude destroys the Hoods Gang Cars despite him being an associate of the Hoods. What about Marty Chonks missions? a bank manager, two thieves, Marty's wife and her lover, who have done absolutely nothing to Claude and are only murdered for monetary gain?

What 

[ThatBenGuy1998]

I both agree and disagree with the OP. I also think the OP brought up some good points. Claude is without a doubt a great GTA protagonist IMO. Do I think his wickedness is exaggerated? Yes. However, do I still think he’s evil? The short answer is yes. He still committed crimes alongside Catalina across various states. Knowing Catalina, there’s an 85% chance you’re probably right that she was very abusive towards him from AT LEAST 1993 until she shot him in 2001. However, that still doesn’t excuse his actions. It also happens all the time IRL where people who have been bullied, abused, or the like will become bad guys as a result of their past bad experience. If Claude were not truly evil, he would simply drop his life of crime. However, it wouldn’t make for a very good GTA game, now would it?

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/12/2021 at 7:59 AM, RenegadeAngel said:

Tony Cipriani blew up a neighborhood, dismembered a butcher and sold his remains to his own butcher shop. 

Vic Vance crippled Vice City with cocaine.

[universetwisters]

Of course Claude is evil, he committed himself to a life of crime when he could be getting ahead with a minimum wage job and making his parent proud 

[iloveclaude]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:55 PM, universetwisters said:

Of course Claude is evil, he committed himself to a life of crime when he could be getting ahead with a minimum wage job and making his parent proud 

I’m assuming that parent would be his mom consedring dads of gta protags just seem to either die or go out for milk

[universetwisters]

On 7/12/2021 at 7:30 PM, iloveclaude said:

...or go out for milk

 

Only when it's raining

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/12/2021 at 4:30 PM, iloveclaude said:

I’m assuming that parent would be his mom consedring dads of gta protags just seem to either die or go out for milk

Toni's dad was probably there for him, but died due to the mafioso lifestyle 

[GTAFanLuca]

On 7/13/2021 at 2:31 AM, universetwisters said:

 

Only when it's raining

So Claude is related to Konstantinos Smith.

[Sombra]

On 7/12/2021 at 6:38 PM, iloveclaude said:

What 

 

What do you mean, what? You claim Claude was "abused" and potentially raped by Catalina with absolutely no context or evidence. I provide the history of Claude and Catalina's relationship which doesn't lead anywhere near abuse, along with Claude's actions that are unrelated to his revenge. Again, does having one singular injustice done to Claude justify his entire actions throughout the game? In my opinion, no f*cking way.

[Jeansowaty]

I'm seriously chuckling. He's an evil pos with no soul, straight up. He'd sell out his own mother for a few bucks. There is one thing in particular that makes him pure evil imo - he literally doesn't even bother looking at Asuka's body even though she helped him so much through the story. He just runs past her, bah, I wonder why R* didn't make him spit on her  

Edited July 14, 2021 by Jeansowaty

[Evil empire]

Claude is a fictional character, he does what is written in the scripts.

 

From an immersion-friendly point of view Claude has all the characteristics of a psychopath.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Evil empire

[CynicalMexican]

Claude Speed is the son of Holden Caulfield, obviously. 

[ThatBenGuy1998]

On 7/14/2021 at 11:05 AM, Jeansowaty said:

I'm seriously chuckling. He's an evil pos with no soul, straight up. He'd sell out his own mother for a few bucks. There is one thing in particular that makes him pure evil imo - he literally doesn't even bother looking at Asuka's body even though she helped him so much through the story. He just runs past her, bah, I wonder why R* didn't make him spit on her  

Not only that but he actually agreed to kill Kenji Kasen on Donald Love’s orders despite the former being more helpful to him than the latter.

[DeltaV20]

Claude is a bot

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/17/2021 at 7:05 AM, ThatBenGuy said:

Not only that but he actually agreed to kill Kenji Kasen on Donald Love’s orders despite the former being more helpful to him than the latter.

And if I recall correctly, it was to instigate a gang war to drive down property prices.

[ThatBenGuy1998]

On 7/19/2021 at 9:28 PM, CynicalMexican said:

And if I recall correctly, it was to instigate a gang war to drive down property prices.

Yeah. I bet he also took pleasure in it, especially because he potentially pissed Catalina off by killing a couple Colombian cartel members and stealing one of their cars in order to kill Kenji.

Edited August 2, 2021 by ThatBenGuy

[Xeyza]

I always tought that Claude's actions weren't just for revenge. Of course, he wanted kill Catalina. But if we remember, he lived nine years with her. Claude knew her violent, dangerous and vinductive attitude. He may have his freedom after the bomb, but he knew he would never be calm: she would hunt him down.

If she was already dangerous in SA, now with Colombian Cartel she was worse.

So, under a survival instinct, he did whatever it takes to find her.

"If I don't kill her first, she will kill me"

[_ys]

Of course Claude is evil. I think he's one of the most evil protagonists in GTA. He was dating with Catalina for 8 years, meaning that he was under her influence and she basically spoiled him. I kinda like to think that in GTA SA he was just a petty thug. But after that he became absolutely cold blooded and heartless. And I love him for that, he's mysterious and dangerous, he also never shows his emotions

Edited July 12 by yungsufoto

[Anywhere USA]

Claude Speed from GTA 2 is probably the evilest of the bunch.

 

Literally all 9 people he works with, he betrays. Every organization. Yakuza, Loonies, Red Necks, Russians, Hir Krishna, Eugenicists, Zaibatsu. Betrayed. 
 

Who has more missions targeting civilians then anyone else, including Trevor and ole GTA 1 mustard shirt? Claude Speed. Who actively murdered gang members just as leverage for more betrayal? Claude Speed?

 

Who kidnapped several bus loads of civilians and painfully turned them into hot dogs? Claude Speed.

 

Trevor and Toni atleast have loyalty, and atleast Toni had standards. Claude Speed is a monster.

Thankfully he’s one of the three protagonists to be confirmed dead. Zaibatsu hitman eventually got him as seen in GTA 2, the movie, but still.