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What DYOM needs changed?


galic0
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UGQAC1y.png

Hello everyone, as I stated in the MOTW #190 theme, DYOM, as a community, needs big changes. And I'm not talking about some rather visual changes, I'm talking about 90% of what can you see right now. So, today, i decieded to make a list of things that DYOM Community, adminstrators, moderators, etc. needs changing.

 

Before we start, I have to thank @Horus Publishing, as i took some of his statements from his post.

So, let us begin!

 

gjsa748.png

 

I have found several problems that DYOM Community is currently facing. I have not listed them by "seriousnes and importance", rather as i thought of them.

They are:

1.) Uninteresting site

2.) Lack of communication

3.) Unadequate choosing of moderators

4.) Lack of motivation

5.) Low effort trashposts

6.) Outdated mod

7.) Not enough input from mod creators

8.) Not enough colaborative projects

9.) Not enough "influencers"

10.) E.T.C 

Each of these problems will be explained in the seperate chapter. If you recognise any more problems, feel free to share them down bellow, thank you.

 

 

 

 

i0pkg1s.png

 

One thing i have realised from @Horus Publishing's post is that DYOM Missions get more attention on other sites than on main, DYOM site. Such examples are: GTAInside, Libertycity.ru/net, gamemodding, etc. Why is this happening?

The answer is rather simple: DYOM site is outdated, uninterseting, unupdated, everything! C'mon, just take a look at the sites welcome page: 

LrXRDBL.png

The latest news are from 6 months ago, and this is the 1st thing the newcommer sees. Hey, how would you feel as a newcommer? Yeah, you would be very unmotivated, because the 1st thing you see is how people are better than you! Why don't we get some other news, such as revolutionary addons, or MOTW, so we can get at least some more participants?

 

Also, just look at the site. It is old, and it hasn't gotten any updates for quite a long time, and the theme is just... dissapointing. 

The solution for this problem is very simple: Update the site modderators to some adequate people, make it active, redesign the WHOLE site, etc.

 

Another thing is pinned mission. Outdated. Old. Take a look at the pinned missions:

 

w45tOtx.png

( the red lines reperesnt the missions that are over 3 years old)

 

As you can see, 15 missions out of 24 are pinned. That is 66% of missions that are over 3 years old! Why can't we get some newer missionpacks pinned?!

The next thing is "non-english missions" marked as english. The high effort, good mission packs, storylines, and etc. get "killed" by low quality begginers missions.

Look, i don't have anything against people that are just beggining, but can you at least make the "begginers" mission tick?

 

SOLUTIONS:

1.) Update the site theme

2.) Update the pinned missions

3.) Update the "latest news"

4.) Bring some "adequate" moderators to the site

5.) Add "information" when publishing your mission*

(simular to GameBanana)

 

H9naFgj.png

 

This chapter is pretty self explanotry. There is a lack of communication between designers, moderators, and creator of the mod.

We need more communication. One good idea is adding "hotline" on DYOM site. There, DYOM Designers would be able to ask quick questions about designing missions, publishing them, etc.

I mean, this whole "crysis" with unactivity and simular that made me make this post is the reason of bad communication. Just... improve the communication, alright?

 

Bu00Mq5.png

 

Yes, unadequate choosing of moderatos. I might get yeeted from DYOM Community for this, but i don't care. At least we'll know the reason why the community is dying.

So, as you may know, DYOM Staff is currently choosing other staff by their ability to win DYOMAwards. Imagine how would that work in the real world:

Imagine a American painter, who has good paintings, but hates idk, Canadians (EXAMPLE, NOT BEING RACIST OK?). Now, because he has good paintings, he wins a contest, and now he's a president of US.

I know it's a dumb comparison, but it's a good example. IF someone makes good missions, it doesn't MEAN that he is a good moderator.

SOLUTION

Instead of getting moderators by DYOM Contest, there should be a "Moderator Contest". It would be a simple "fill in your information" file, that, if you want to apply for moderator position, you would have to fill in. Current moderators will choose several good looking aplications, and invite the possible future moderators to VC Meeting. After the meeting, the final moderators would be choosen.

 

2E46v6s.png

 

In the last 2 or 3 years, many good mission designers have abandoned  DYOM. The main reason is, of course, lack of motivation. We need something to motivate people to make missions, to make reviews, and to participate in MOTW. And I have found the solution again, in GameBanana: GameBanana Points!

 

It is a simple method: You make Missions, Storylines, Reviews, you get points. With those points, you can upgrade your profile, or exchange lots of points for games. The more points you have, the better games you can get. Also, i was thinking about adding "mod hub", where designers can request some mods for their projects.

 

This would motivate the designers a lot, as it gives them a reason to make good reviews, projects, and etc.

 

PyFtjFq.png

 

I am just going to quote Horus here:

 

  

On 7/3/2021 at 9:31 PM, Horus Publishing said:

? No downloads for good missions, some international turkish or hungarian people making missions in their own language (which btw. they check when they upload that mission is English so idk why) - for me trailers are bugged (checked it). It's sad to see that ex. Seygull entry for MOTW #190 has only 3 downloads and it's been 24 hours and nobody is interested, because site is full of (and i'm not racist here) Arabs, Turkish people and kids that have broken grammar to that point, that u don't even understand the mission plot.

 

He explained the problem pretty good. The site is full of toxic, Arabs, Turks, Hungarian, and Balkan kids that have broken grammar. They even don't know how to type in their own laungage: (ex. Typing "Sweet" as "Svit" because their favorite YouTuber that sold himself types like that).

Simple solution for this problem: Encourage people to report these kind of missions to be put under new category: Low Effort, Begginer missions.

Don't get me wrong here, we don't need OMG 1000/10 MISSION POG BEST STUFF EVER to be for every mission pack. We need people to laugh.

There should be "Fun" category as well, for people to make fun missions. There will probably be people who will diss other people but: The person who got "attacked" would have two choices: 1. - Make a mission/mission pack dissing the guy who dissed him, or 2. - Remove the mission.

 

DQc6CXN.png

 

Self explanetory. Mod is outdated. Even IF the developers gave up, the community COULD still carry on. But no, no! Let's kill something with good foundation for futute!

As stated in one of the posts from one person I have seen here ( but i can't find it now idk y prob deleted), Creators of DYOM have forbiden editing the actual mod. Addons are allowed. 

We all know official DYOM 8.2, or DYOM 9 isn't comming, so, Patrick and Dutchy, if you are reading this: allow us to edit the mod. If we make it perfect, more people will come, and bigger and better projects will be made.

 

pM7pBZl.png

 

The best thing ever are colaborative projects. I think it's the most fun thing to work with someone on a project. So, we should encourage colaborative projects in DYOM! And we should do that, by making STUDIOS (Copying GameBanana again)

Studios would be a "group" of designers that would make different projects. It's very simple. Studio leader would be able to assign the studios name, picture, role of studio members, and etc. It would be fun as heck.

Making studio projects would give members of studio more points, fame, etc. Hey, I'm hyped for this! Imagine the possibilites of this! Working on story, object placement, skins, etc... Just sayin', i'm hyped, and i know this probably won't happen. ;( 

 

eK05Z9P.png

 

YouTubers are our only hope for survival. Just look at this graph:

R0puyKJ.png

As you can see, each time some big yotuber made a video, DYOM's popularity SKYROCKETED! Thus, we need some big creators, maybe even our own social media pages.

I would suggest something like LambdaGeneration Youtube Channel. For example: On DYOM YouTube Channel, we would post different trailers, tutorials, and community news. Then, we could maybe make some interviews with different people from community. 

Maybe, we could get some big YouTuber to make some videos on DYOM, it would help a lot...

 

Another thing is, we have only like 3 or 4 active DYOM Youtubers: AznKei, Hours (Recently) Sonny, and DYOM Corner guy. If we could pump up those numbers, mod would be alive for much more time...

 

vnl3H45.png

 

So, this is the end. If you have any more ideas, or thoughts on this, leave them down below, I will be glad to answer them all.

TL;DR: you have to read it.

Edited by Galeb
Gramatical Errors
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Horus Publishing

Here's some pictures i want to talk about. Download and views comparision from Aymunz's: "Drunken Fool Saves The Day" from DYOM and GTAinside, and Oski's Volkssturm

GTAinside:

896j3Kf.png

DYOM:

xGaDmf5.png

 

Views from GTAinside:

 

LaY8Pmp.png

 

In the first month, Aymunz mission on GTAinside got over 1,181 views and in one month 323 downloads. That's an outstanding performance on a first day.

 

Second: Oski's Volkssturm pt.2

DYOM:

kvBJXYz.png

GTAinside

JO4pn9l.png

GTAinside stats for Volkssturm

VBDewxn.png

 

Also - at the first month of the release: 1,154 views and 327 downloads (good record)

 

Althrough, nicely made DYOM missions that were made in this year had decent views, it's nowhere near GTAinside views especially on the first month. Maybe there's more commenters on DYOM and maybe more "raters" but i would rather upload on GTAinside and get more "honest" reviews than kids rating good missions with 2, 3 stars just because they're too "hard" or "they can't one headshot guy" LOL

 

Idk if changes will be made, we can wish but yeah, just showing how much difference it is. I'm only showing pictures, so i'm not forcing you to do changes, but this is only for examination.

 

Adding on - the most highest viewed and downloaded on the GTAinside was Parasite by Zeko. Outsanding 2,107 views and over 514 downloads in the first month, and in the next months there were downloads ranging from: 300-100 per month. And BTW this is a mission from 2020 and in the previous months (June 2021) IT STILL GOT DOWNLOADS and views. Outstanding, how people somehow comeback to those missions if they're high rated

 

BG0XifH.png

 

And look at the spikes, jeez.

 

Google Trends results for DYOM:

 

2cLGuM0.png

 

Numbers:

IIWQdAx.png

 

Keep in mind, that these are impressions from 27th June - 3th July (only 30 impressions in Google serach engine in the whole world) :(

 

Next: In which country DYOM is now popular (also i didn't change presets so it was set to search impressions from every single country of the world):

wBOHk79.png

 

Indonesia? LOL. That's a nice DYOM interest right there. I'm hoping to find YouTube trending something stuff  like this so maybe we'll also compare ratings of DYOM trends on YouTube (if i'll find something)

Edited by Horus Publishing
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Horus Publishing

@Galeb LOL that idea about making "Dissing missions" haha lol it could be a thing - i bet there would be alot of them 😅

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It's very commendable that you made an effort to list these problems, but unfortunately, no matter how many cosmetic and non-cosmetic changes you make, DYOM, or rather the core of the community which is this sub-forum, will never regain half the relevance and popularity it had during the early 2010s. Even if there were means to implement all of the potential solutions you listed in your post, who's to say it will last for longer than a year tops?

 

The sad truth is that DYOM has already hit its dead end sometime around late 2010s. I know I sound pessimistic with this, but you guys are quite literally beating a dead horse. The mod will never be officially updated, and even if someone had the means to contact Patrick and/or Dutchy, I highly doubt there's any chance they let anyone modify their creation, seeing how overprotective they were over the years shutting down any unofficial updates.

 

Now let's go point by point:

 

1. I wholly agree that the website is absolute sh*t and needs to be remade from scratch.

2. This ties in with the issue I explained above - no one knows how and where to contact Dutchy or Patrick, so that's pointless. But don't you guys have the discord server? I say that's the best way of communication by far. Adding something on the website sounds like a decent idea, but will it even be used properly? And will the moderators have time to answer all the questions?

3. I do agree that the current roster of moderators could be updated, seeing as General Scrotum aka Secronom President has been completely inactive for the last few years, while Jimmy_Leppard and Rytuklis only occasionally pop in. But rather than making a form for everyone to use and abuse, why not make a nomination thread instead where you can vouch for someone who you believe would make a good moderator? This, however, is kinda pointless until the website is remade and moderators can actually be useful there.

4. These bogus points systems are useless IMO. I still frequent a Russian website where people can like and dislike mods, DYOM projects included, and while it did work when the community was still active back in the day, now it's a barren wasteland just like here, with projects barely getting any interactions (although the same can be said about the other mods hosted there so maybe the website itself is the problem). It may help short-term, sure, but then again the star ratings ARE currently present on the website - do they work? And that's without even mentioning the fact that awards aren't the only thing that influence motivation.

5. You will never be able to fully get rid of 'low quality trashposts' because the website represents the international DYOM community, and trolls/children/illiterate people can't just be purged with a single click of a button. And again, this ties in with the moderation problem, which itself depends on the website problem.

6. Already talked about it above.

7. Same here.

8. See, the thing about collaborative projects is that, sure, they are fun to host once in a while, but do you know how they usually ended? Many people who signed up initially either left the projects leaving no explanation, or half-assedly did their job just so the story could go on. And to add insult to injury, the skills of individual designers differ drastically from one another, so you could have a very good mission and an bad low-effort mission being back-to-back. The 'Studios' thing you propose would've sounded great on paper if we were back in 2010; seeing the current state of the community, I struggle to imagine even one project being made this way, let alone multiple from multiple such studios.

9. DYOM, and GTA San Andreas at large, aren't trendy enough to carry a YouTube channel, unless you make SAMP content, and even then, the profits are minuscule compared to other games. Let's say, hypothetically, you get someone like Pewdiepie to play some DYOM missions so he promotes the mod - how long do you think the effects of this will last? How many of his viewers would not just try the mod, but become an active part of the community? And where's the guarantee that they won't just litter the website with the aforementioned 'low effort trashposts'? Considering that a large part of the general YouTube demographic are children and teens, I say there's a pretty big chance this could backfire.

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Horus Publishing
On 7/7/2021 at 9:19 PM, Satourn said:

It's very commendable that you made an effort to list these problems, but unfortunately, no matter how many cosmetic and non-cosmetic changes you make, DYOM, or rather the core of the community which is this sub-forum, will never regain half the relevance and popularity it had during the early 2010s. Even if there were means to implement all of the potential solutions you listed in your post, who's to say it will last for longer than a year tops?

 

The sad truth is that DYOM has already hit its dead end sometime around late 2010s. I know I sound pessimistic with this, but you guys are quite literally beating a dead horse. The mod will never be officially updated, and even if someone had the means to contact Patrick and/or Dutchy, I highly doubt there's any chance they let anyone modify their creation, seeing how overprotective they were over the years shutting down any unofficial updates.

 

Now let's go point by point:

 

1. I wholly agree that the website is absolute sh*t and needs to be remade from scratch.

2. This ties in with the issue I explained above - no one knows how and where to contact Dutchy or Patrick, so that's pointless. But don't you guys have the discord server? I say that's the best way of communication by far. Adding something on the website sounds like a decent idea, but will it even be used properly? And will the moderators have time to answer all the questions?

3. I do agree that the current roster of moderators could be updated, seeing as General Scrotum aka Secronom President has been completely inactive for the last few years, while Jimmy_Leppard and Rytuklis only occasionally pop in. But rather than making a form for everyone to use and abuse, why not make a nomination thread instead where you can vouch for someone who you believe would make a good moderator? This, however, is kinda pointless until the website is remade and moderators can actually be useful there.

4. These bogus points systems are useless IMO. I still frequent a Russian website where people can like and dislike mods, DYOM projects included, and while it did work when the community was still active back in the day, now it's a barren wasteland just like here, with projects barely getting any interactions (although the same can be said about the other mods hosted there so maybe the website itself is the problem). It may help short-term, sure, but then again the star ratings ARE currently present on the website - do they work? And that's without even mentioning the fact that awards aren't the only thing that influence motivation.

5. You will never be able to fully get rid of 'low quality trashposts' because the website represents the international DYOM community, and trolls/children/illiterate people can't just be purged with a single click of a button. And again, this ties in with the moderation problem, which itself depends on the website problem.

6. Already talked about it above.

7. Same here.

8. See, the thing about collaborative projects is that, sure, they are fun to host once in a while, but do you know how they usually ended? Many people who signed up initially either left the projects leaving no explanation, or half-assedly did their job just so the story could go on. And to add insult to injury, the skills of individual designers differ drastically from one another, so you could have a very good mission and an bad low-effort mission being back-to-back. The 'Studios' thing you propose would've sounded great on paper if we were back in 2010; seeing the current state of the community, I struggle to imagine even one project being made this way, let alone multiple from multiple such studios.

9. DYOM, and GTA San Andreas at large, aren't trendy enough to carry a YouTube channel, unless you make SAMP content, and even then, the profits are minuscule compared to other games. Let's say, hypothetically, you get someone like Pewdiepie to play some DYOM missions so he promotes the mod - how long do you think the effects of this will last? How many of his viewers would not just try the mod, but become an active part of the community? And where's the guarantee that they won't just litter the website with the aforementioned 'low effort trashposts'? Considering that a large part of the general YouTube demographic are children and teens, I say there's a pretty big chance this could backfire.

 

True. It's sad truth

Edited by Horus Publishing
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On 7/8/2021 at 2:19 AM, Satourn said:

It's very commendable that you made an effort to list these problems, but unfortunately, no matter how many cosmetic and non-cosmetic changes you make, DYOM, or rather the core of the community which is this sub-forum, will never regain half the relevance and popularity it had during the early 2010s. Even if there were means to implement all of the potential solutions you listed in your post, who's to say it will last for longer than a year tops?

 

The sad truth is that DYOM has already hit its dead end sometime around late 2010s. I know I sound pessimistic with this, but you guys are quite literally beating a dead horse. The mod will never be officially updated, and even if someone had the means to contact Patrick and/or Dutchy, I highly doubt there's any chance they let anyone modify their creation, seeing how overprotective they were over the years shutting down any unofficial updates.

 

Now let's go point by point:

 

1. I wholly agree that the website is absolute sh*t and needs to be remade from scratch.

2. This ties in with the issue I explained above - no one knows how and where to contact Dutchy or Patrick, so that's pointless. But don't you guys have the discord server? I say that's the best way of communication by far. Adding something on the website sounds like a decent idea, but will it even be used properly? And will the moderators have time to answer all the questions?

3. I do agree that the current roster of moderators could be updated, seeing as General Scrotum aka Secronom President has been completely inactive for the last few years, while Jimmy_Leppard and Rytuklis only occasionally pop in. But rather than making a form for everyone to use and abuse, why not make a nomination thread instead where you can vouch for someone who you believe would make a good moderator? This, however, is kinda pointless until the website is remade and moderators can actually be useful there.

4. These bogus points systems are useless IMO. I still frequent a Russian website where people can like and dislike mods, DYOM projects included, and while it did work when the community was still active back in the day, now it's a barren wasteland just like here, with projects barely getting any interactions (although the same can be said about the other mods hosted there so maybe the website itself is the problem). It may help short-term, sure, but then again the star ratings ARE currently present on the website - do they work? And that's without even mentioning the fact that awards aren't the only thing that influence motivation.

5. You will never be able to fully get rid of 'low quality trashposts' because the website represents the international DYOM community, and trolls/children/illiterate people can't just be purged with a single click of a button. And again, this ties in with the moderation problem, which itself depends on the website problem.

6. Already talked about it above.

7. Same here.

8. See, the thing about collaborative projects is that, sure, they are fun to host once in a while, but do you know how they usually ended? Many people who signed up initially either left the projects leaving no explanation, or half-assedly did their job just so the story could go on. And to add insult to injury, the skills of individual designers differ drastically from one another, so you could have a very good mission and an bad low-effort mission being back-to-back. The 'Studios' thing you propose would've sounded great on paper if we were back in 2010; seeing the current state of the community, I struggle to imagine even one project being made this way, let alone multiple from multiple such studios.

9. DYOM, and GTA San Andreas at large, aren't trendy enough to carry a YouTube channel, unless you make SAMP content, and even then, the profits are minuscule compared to other games. Let's say, hypothetically, you get someone like Pewdiepie to play some DYOM missions so he promotes the mod - how long do you think the effects of this will last? How many of his viewers would not just try the mod, but become an active part of the community? And where's the guarantee that they won't just litter the website with the aforementioned 'low effort trashposts'? Considering that a large part of the general YouTube demographic are children and teens, I say there's a pretty big chance this could backfire.

Haha I love you and your rants!

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Leon Luther

We can't really do sh*t beside changing moderators, or picking new ones.

 

I don't think there is a good way to make DYOM more active. And contests and awards I would say don't really do that much. Sure, we may see old members commenting and all of that, but are they gonna stay after that?

 

And DYOM is a little bit dead at this point. It wasn't like this 1 year ago. Just look at MOTW for instance, you used to see up to 4 participations! Now, you barely even see 1 or two participations.

 

 

With that being said, sh*t's never gonna change, or at least for a long while that is.

Edited by Leon Luther
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tbh it's quite sad seeing the dyom community dying 

people move on eventually and we can't stop that

Quote

Indonesia? LOL. That's a nice DYOM interest right there. I'm hoping to find YouTube trending something stuff  like this so maybe we'll also compare ratings of DYOM trends on YouTube (if i'll find something)

Well, it's the Indonesian youtubers that put a bunch of mods (like animals and mythical creatures) that helped popularize DYOM. Hell, the Indonesian GTA modding site (https://www.gtaind.com) is full with DYOM missions. Indonesians in general just love their DYOM missions.

Edited by shinka
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The John David

On the bright side! Aznkei1 is the only guy who record and plays any DYOM Missions everyday at noon?

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  • 4 months later...
RedBaronFromTheUG
On 7/20/2021 at 1:34 AM, The John David said:

On the bright side! Aznkei1 is the only guy who record and plays any DYOM Missions everyday at noon?

Yeah but he sometimes forgets the SD and it is widely known that his installation is kind of broken, so if you want someone to include sd with a chance of 100% you can either ask horus or the others on the list.

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  • 1 month later...

Holy sh*t this topic is golden, I can only dream that the problems that you said are getting solved, i've always like and interested in DYOM and make a DYOM mission as a hobby

  • Realistic Steak! 1
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