Which of the 3D Era Games is the longest and shortest?

[Guest]

On 7/12/2021 at 6:00 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Just to check, the glitch that lets you get a Hunter in Karmageddeon won’t mess with progress or count as a cheat, right?

This debug feature is interesting. It apparently doesn't prevent 100% completion. I wouldn't count it as a cheat, the button combination instead is part of the Karmageddon mission script.

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/13/2021 at 12:36 PM, horsewithnoname said:

This debug feature is interesting. It apparently doesn't prevent 100% completion. I wouldn't count it as a cheat, the button combination instead is part of the Karmageddon mission script.

Yeah, guy I watched said it was a debug feature left in by mistake. (The Maverick in the mission after is more of a glitch). Neither of them mess with 100% completion though? That's good. I kinda want to snag the helicopters for obvious reasons

[Guest]

On 7/14/2021 at 6:27 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Yeah, guy I watched said it was a debug feature left in by mistake. (The Maverick in the mission after is more of a glitch). Neither of them mess with 100% completion though? That's good. I kinda want to snag the helicopters for obvious reasons

There are special vehicle collectors out there who have obtained the Hunter and reached 100%. Keep in mind that storing the helicopters in safehouse garages will probably take some effort.

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:31 AM, horsewithnoname said:

There are special vehicle collectors out there who have obtained the Hunter and reached 100%. Keep in mind that storing the helicopters in safehouse garages will probably take some effort.

I did it once. Took me some good hours.

[Anywhere USA]

I’m EXTREMLY shocked that every top 10 I’ve looked at puts GTA III ahead of GTA LCS, because LCS is 100% better on every way except MAYBE story, and that just comes down to personal preference since they both do a lot right and a lot wrong in different areas. (Literally nobody introduced in the first 40% of GTA 3 matters after leaving Portland except Catalina who only shows up in two cutscenes and Maria who shows up in one mission and shows up when you leave for Staunton. (GTA LCS can’t make up its f*cking mind on who the main villain is supposed to be)
 

GTA LCS looks better, controls better in cars, the guns actually f*cking aim properly, you have a camera that works how it should, there’s free aim, great side content, missions are more interesting and less crap, there are actually missions set inside of buildings(Closest GTA 3 got was a parking garage open to the air and that maze in Grand Theft Aero)

 

Hell, GTA 2 is better at being GTA 3 then it is. GTA 2 controls quite smoothly on car, and while the shooting isn’t great, it’s still better then GTA 3 because you can turn on a dime with no camera angle trouble. Not to mention GTA 2 has the respect system, and was responsible for most of the big improvements that helped the franchise going forward. I do factor in innovation when considering this, but GTA 3 didn’t honestly add that much, GTA 2 was the big improvement from 1, GTA was just GTA 2 in 3D with the mission tiering from GTA 1 brought back to replace the  respect system.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Anywhere USA

[Guest]

On 7/16/2021 at 8:10 AM, Anywhere USA said:

I’m EXTREMLY shocked that every top 10 I’ve looked at puts GTA III ahead of GTA LCS, because LCS is 100% better on every way except MAYBE story, and that just comes down to personal preference since they both do a lot right and a lot wrong in different areas.

Well, you need to take the release date of the games into consideration. GTA III in its full 3D glory was groundbreaking in 2001. Most of the strengths that you mentioned that LCS has in comparison to III are things it actually inherited from VC and (partly) SA. The main merit of LCS was that it was the first full 3D GTA title on a handheld console.

[CynicalMexican]

That, and the Stories games were Sony exclusives - also the step down from SA to the stories games.

 

Yee see, VCS feels weird in that area. It has so many improvements, yet it's all restricted to such a tiny map.

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:59 AM, horsewithnoname said:

Well, you need to take the release date of the games into consideration. GTA III in its full 3D glory was groundbreaking in 2001. Most of the strengths that you mentioned that LCS has in comparison to III are things it actually inherited from VC and (partly) SA. The main merit of LCS was that it was the first full 3D GTA title on a handheld console.

I said near the end of the post I did. I factor in new additions to a series.

LCS didn't add much new compared to SA and VC from what I've read (freeaim I think was the big new one), but it's overall the better experience. GTA III is a kinda crappy experience, and it didn't add much to the series compared to the game before.

[Guest]

On 7/17/2021 at 3:15 AM, Anywhere USA said:

LCS didn't add much new compared to SA and VC from what I've read (freeaim I think was the big new one), but it's overall the better experience. GTA III is a kinda crappy experience, and it didn't add much to the series compared to the game before.

Freeaim was actually added in SA (or mouse look in the PC versions of III and VC). Again, GTA III in full 3D was kind of a big deal in 2001, while players took for granted that with the advancements made in VC and SA, GTA experiences naturally would be improved by 2005/06 when LCS came out.

[CynicalMexican]

Kinda shows you the dissonance between players today and those who were there to experience this stuff. GTA, and hell, even games like DRIV3R and True Crime were a BIG deal back then.

 

It's like back then you had the older Mario/Sonic communities who hated the GTA community. Now you have the divide between older and younger fans of the games.

[Anywhere USA]

Not like I don't appreciate old stuff. I'm a hardcore Forum/Messageboard fan purest who doesn't want our neck of the internet to get snuffed out by discord. See here https://dan-vs.freeforums.net/

Just pointing out GTA III is an inferior experience to GTA LCS in almost everyway, and it didn't add that much new to the series all things considered. It was essentially "GTA 2 in 3D, but the controls are all worse since this is the first 3D game and the respect system was ditched for the GTA 1 mission structure". I prefer GTA 2 over it as well because it's so refined at what it does.

 

I value the overall experience in general though over what something added to a series in terms of ranking. I've seen several top 10s give GTA 3 the top spot for being the first 3D game in the series, and uh....yeah I don't play like that. What a game added is a useful tiebreaker if it's a close race, but it's not a big factor for me

 

Not sure what I'll end up thinking of Vice City. I know for fact it'll beat GTA 3, but GTA 2 and GTA LCS....eh...

Edited July 17, 2021 by Anywhere USA

[Anywhere USA]

Also, the wiki says that LCS takes place in Spring of 1998.....but the manual is dated to October 1998, and is clearly set BEFORE THE game since it's mentioned Callahan Bridge was delayed again, the Mayor is still alive, Donald Love has expressed intent of perhaps running, but hasn't done anything............

 

I know that one Rockstar radio site says 1998, but that was made years later by a couple of employees who probably googled it. Are we SURE GTA LCS wasn't intended to be set in 1999? That would make it two years before GTA 3, just like VCS is to VC. Also literally everyone in the game is talking about Y2K (which was a scare in 1999) and the game is parodying Trump's run in 1999 for the 2000 Election under the reform party....so also 1999. The ingame thing saying the bridge would be done in May 1998 is clearly untrue since it was still delayed and unfinished in October when the manual is set.......

[Guest]

On 7/18/2021 at 11:49 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Also, the wiki says that LCS takes place in Spring of 1998.....but the manual is dated to October 1998, and is clearly set BEFORE THE game since it's mentioned Callahan Bridge was delayed again, the Mayor is still alive, Donald Love has expressed intent of perhaps running, but hasn't done anything............

 

I know that one Rockstar radio site says 1998, but that was made years later by a couple of employees who probably googled it. Are we SURE GTA LCS wasn't intended to be set in 1999? That would make it two years before GTA 3, just like VCS is to VC. Also literally everyone in the game is talking about Y2K (which was a scare in 1999) and the game is parodying Trump's run in 1999 for the 2000 Election under the reform party....so also 1999. The ingame thing saying the bridge would be done in May 1998 is clearly untrue since it was still delayed and unfinished in October when the manual is set.......

A similar case is with GTA2 as well. The official site says it's set "three weeks into the future", the game's art style/GTA2: The Movie says it's set in 2013 and a radio DJ says "the millennium is coming". Glad they fixed it in GTA3 and kept a cohesive timeline setting.

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:54 PM, H-G said:

A similar case is with GTA2 as well. The official site says it's set "three weeks into the future", the game's art style/GTA2: The Movie says it's set in 2013 and a radio DJ says "the millennium is coming". Glad they fixed it in GTA3 and kept a cohesive timeline setting.

You didn’t answer my question really. Is the 1998 thing true canon, or did someone just glance at the manual and date on the bridge without close examination and we’ve all just been following along in a circle jerk since. I don’t trust the wikis much after the “Love Hurts” thing……and the San Andreas TTDISA thing………and the Witness Protection thing.

 

Because literally all the evidence says it has to take place some time after the date in the manual, October 30th 1998, as Hole is still alive and well then. It’s definitely not Spring 1998, the bridge thing seems to convey it having been delayed, even the manual mentions this, and the game shows the strikers. 
 

Earliest technically possible is October 31st 1998, and I’d have to listen to the radio again to make sure I didn’t miss anything, but tbh e weather tells me it’s probably summer time in 1999.

 

This kinda reminds me of how FNAF 1 has to be set in 1992 due to the days of the week, but Matpat made a theory saying “Anywhere from 1991-1996.” because on pay alone that was the case…….except he focused on 1993 because he was comparing it to an IRL murder at the time, and everyone started running with 1993 until no one remembered the source 

[Anywhere USA]

Anyway, the Hunter is looking to be more trouble then it's worth. I'd need to keep it around til Shoreside Vale unlocks, and it's apparently super difficult to get it both into and out of the garage there to the point you have to glitch it out.

 

Is the Maverick in the mission after easier to work with? I'd like something that can get in and out of a garage without much trouble.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Anywhere USA

[CynicalMexican]

From what I understand, the "May 1998" completion date is a bit of a joke towards the real life delays surrounding Wembley Stadium in the mid 2000s.

 

Also I see you are a Dan Vs fan. I love that show.

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/22/2021 at 5:39 PM, CynicalMexican said:

From what I understand, the "May 1998" completion date is a bit of a joke towards the real life delays surrounding Wembley Stadium in the mid 2000s.

 

Also I see you are a Dan Vs fan. I love that show.

Just further pushes me to think 1999 might have been the intent

Edited July 23, 2021 by Anywhere USA

[jaljax]

On 7/9/2021 at 2:11 PM, CynicalMexican said:

GTA LCS is slept on. Good story, unique side quests, solid soundtrack too.

The only downfall I find with LCS is the terrible antagonist you don’t even see until the last mission . Would’ve been a lot better if we had one like the other ones in the series that will either betray you or are the antagonists from the beginning & knowing who they actually are instead of taking out someone for your boss like LCS did. 

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/22/2021 at 9:37 PM, jaljax said:

The only downfall I find with LCS is the terrible antagonist you don’t even see until the last mission . Would’ve been a lot better if we had one like the other ones in the series that will either betray you or are the antagonists from the beginning & knowing who they actually are instead of taking out someone for your boss like LCS did. 

I'm not gonna deny they didn't do very good on the villains, none of them are really fleshed out well (Vincenzo is an asshole, betrays you, and then 10 missions later betrays you again, Paulie gets mentioned alot and then you just murder him, Massimo shows up once early on and then at the very end), but alot of the GTA villains aren't the most recurring.

 

I mean, Catalina shows up once in a cutscene at the very start of III, once in a cutscene that has zero relevance outside the mission and she doesn't interact with Claude, and finally in Grand Theft Aero she becomes a recurring threat....for about 5 missions, then the game is over. (She tries to kill you in Kingdom Come, you f*ck her stuff up in Espresso 2 Go and SAM, and you kill her in Exchange)

 

Heck, Dimitri from GTA 4 basically disappears after Russian Revolution until the end of the game. We HEAR from him when he kidnaps Roman and sends a hit squad after Bernie, but that's it.

 

I'd say 5 did well here, but it's got too many cooks. (Devin, Steve, Cheng, Stretch, Rocco, Madrazo, Elwood Oneil) I've heard Steve was supposed to be the main villain and they switched it to Devin partway through development....it shows. (Devin is akwardly shoved into the torture mission for no good reason and it has no relevance to the plot, then he comes back 20 missions later and rips them all off of their pay for the car theft....I mean, that's villain material, especially since he went after Micheals family....but Steve had a significantly bigger role in the plot, had a history with Dave and knowledge of what went down in North Yankton, seemed to fit with the whole 'government is corrupt and criminals just like the rest of us theme"...Steve really should have been the main villain and Devin a secondary problem killed before the end of the game

Edited July 24, 2021 by Anywhere USA

[gtafaninwest]

It would have to be a tie between VCS and LCS. The shortest would have to be III.

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/23/2021 at 10:03 PM, Anywhere USA said:

I'm not gonna deny they didn't do very good on the villains, none of them are really fleshed out well (Vincenzo is an asshole, betrays you, and then 10 missions later betrays you again, Paulie gets mentioned alot and then you just murder him, Massimo shows up once early on and then at the very end), but alot of the GTA villains aren't the most recurring.

 

I mean, Catalina shows up once in a cutscene at the very start of III, once in a cutscene that has zero relevance outside the mission and she doesn't interact with Claude, and finally in Grand Theft Aero she becomes a recurring threat....for about 5 missions, then the game is over. (She tries to kill you in Kingdom Come, you f*ck her stuff up in Espresso 2 Go and SAM, and you kill her in Exchange)

 

Heck, Dimitri from GTA 4 basically disappears after Russian Revolution until the end of the game. We HEAR from him when he kidnaps Roman and sends a hit squad after Bernie, but that's it.

 

I'd say 5 did well here, but it's got too many cooks. (Devin, Steve, Cheng, Stretch, Rocco, Madrazo, Elwood Oneil) I've heard Steve was supposed to be the main villain and they switched it to Devin partway through development....it shows. (Devin is akwardly shoved into the torture mission for no good reason and it has no relevance to the plot, then he comes back 20 missions later and rips them all off of their pay for the car theft....I mean, that's villain material, especially since he went after Micheals family....but Steve had a significantly bigger role in the plot, had a history with Dave and knowledge of what went down in North Yankton, seemed to fit with the whole 'government is corrupt and criminals just like the rest of us theme"...Steve really should have been the main villain and Devin a secondary problem killed before the end of the game

Spot on. GTA V feels like it should be 200 or so missions long especially with the huge cast.

 

With GTA LCS the villains may not have been great, but at least it was consistent and we got an explanation to the events leading up to 2001, such as:

- The Diablos become more powerful because they have the backing of the Sicilian Mob who are trying to keep the Leones in check.

- The Triads for the same reason, and we get insight into the tension between the Leones and Triads

- The Leones are so powerful because they were able to manipulate the mayor who got kidnapped by the Sicilians, and being able to wage war on the other Mafia.

- We know part of the reason why the Yakuza and Leones are at war is over the events of 1998.

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:06 PM, CynicalMexican said:

Spot on. GTA V feels like it should be 200 or so missions long especially with the huge cast.

 

With GTA LCS the villains may not have been great, but at least it was consistent and we got an explanation to the events leading up to 2001, such as:

- The Diablos become more powerful because they have the backing of the Sicilian Mob who are trying to keep the Leones in check.

- The Triads for the same reason, and we get insight into the tension between the Leones and Triads

- The Leones are so powerful because they were able to manipulate the mayor who got kidnapped by the Sicilians, and being able to wage war on the other Mafia.

- We know part of the reason why the Yakuza and Leones are at war is over the events of 1998.

I’ve always wanted to do a video that’s essentially a timeline of gang control in Liberty City across all the years we know about. Direct control, partial control, protectorate gangs, allies and enemies, ongoing wars. Mainly between LCS and 3, but I assume the previous games atleast hint at what the situation was before that.

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/26/2021 at 3:23 PM, Anywhere USA said:

I’ve always wanted to do a video that’s essentially a timeline of gang control in Liberty City across all the years we know about. Direct control, partial control, protectorate gangs, allies and enemies, ongoing wars. Mainly between LCS and 3, but I assume the previous games atleast hint at what the situation was before that.

 

Yeah that's something that's kinda underrated about the 3D Universe, you get to see how the diplomacy things of side play out, such as:

 

- The Ballas and The Vagos having an alliance, both being supplied by an unnamed Bratva organization. 

- The Diablos effectively being a sort of satellite gang of the Sicilian Mob.

- The Cubans relationship with the Vercetti and Vance families; you also see how they "weaseled out" the Trailer Park mob out of Little Havana via their alliance with Vic.

 

GTA 5 felt weak in this regard in comparison. GTA 4 did a good job with this though.

Edited July 27, 2021 by CynicalMexican

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:27 PM, CynicalMexican said:

 

Yeah that's something that's kinda underrated about the 3D Universe, you get to see how the diplomacy things of side play out, such as:

 

- The Ballas and The Vagos having an alliance, both being supplied by an unnamed Brava organization. 

- The Diablos effectively being a sort of satellite gang of the Sicilian Mob.

- The Cubans relationship with the Vercetti and Vance families; you also see how they "weaseled out" the Trailer Park mob out of Little Havana via their alliance with Vic.

 

GTA 5 felt weak in this regard in comparison. GTA 4 did a good job with this though.

Hence, a borderline mapping video could be really fun. Liberty City definitely feels like the best one though to do it, most info, longest timespan, plus it has a nice open ending for speculation on what would happen after the killing of Catalina and Asuka and Claude's disappearence.

 

Biggest problem would be gathering data and accounting for the fact the game designers aren't perfect. (For example, the Yardies are allied to the Leone family in 1998/1999 according to the lore, despite this they start attacking you in LCS right after the mission where you help them. GTA 3's triad war aftermath isn't really represented in game, despite the fact it's heavily implied that Toni and Claude took significant gains from them after killing the 3 leaders and blowing up the factory. Also, in GTA LCS the triads don't even spawn in Chinatown til later so). I also haven't played the games prior, which almost certainely have more info on the pre-1998/1999 situation. (I know for a fact that the Forelli's used to run the majority of the city and Tommy f*cked that up)

 

Also I assume you meant Bratva?

Edited July 26, 2021 by Anywhere USA

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:00 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Hence, a borderline mapping video could be really fun. Liberty City definitely feels like the best one though to do it, most info, longest timespan, plus it has a nice open ending for speculation on what would happen after the killing of Catalina and Asuka and Claude's disappearence.

 

Biggest problem would be gathering data and accounting for the fact the game designers aren't perfect. (For example, the Yardies are allied to the Leone family in 1998/1999 according to the lore, despite this they start attacking you in LCS right after the mission where you help them. GTA 3's triad war aftermath isn't really represented in game, despite the fact it's heavily implied that Toni and Claude took significant gains from them after killing the 3 leaders and blowing up the factory. Also, in GTA LCS the triads don't even spawn in Chinatown til later so). I also haven't played the games prior, which almost certainely have more info on the pre-1998/1999 situation. (I know for a fact that the Forelli's used to run the majority of the city and Tommy f*cked that up)

 

Also I assume you meant Bratva?

Correct, I meant Bratva.

 

Los Santos would be a fun one to do as well since the gangs are relatively fleshed out in the story. However, the pre and post story events aren't particularly clear, but I imagine it goes a bit like this:

- The Ballas may have developed out of a Families set with a different set of ideals, sort of like how some Bloods gangs were born out of different Crips sets

- This likely makes more sense with the Aztecas/Vagos, since there's so much distance between them yet they have a huge rivalry.

- I always imagined the gangs signed a treaty especially since the Ballas and Vagos are effectively capitulated, and taking over territories isn't required for 100%, which tells me that a truce is more likely to be canon.

 

But you're right, the gang lore isn't too fleshed out outside the main game stories and there are plot holes, but it is fun to speculate. 

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/26/2021 at 6:27 PM, CynicalMexican said:

Correct, I meant Bratva.

 

Los Santos would be a fun one to do as well since the gangs are relatively fleshed out in the story. However, the pre and post story events aren't particularly clear, but I imagine it goes a bit like this:

- The Ballas may have developed out of a Families set with a different set of ideals, sort of like how some Bloods gangs were born out of different Crips sets

- This likely makes more sense with the Aztecas/Vagos, since there's so much distance between them yet they have a huge rivalry.

- I always imagined the gangs signed a treaty especially since the Ballas and Vagos are effectively capitulated, and taking over territories isn't required for 100%, which tells me that a truce is more likely to be canon.

 

But you're right, the gang lore isn't too fleshed out outside the main game stories and there are plot holes, but it is fun to speculate. 

Hence I said Liberty City.

LCS is a good place to start, 3 is mostly simple, not much territory changes other then the Yakuza pushing the line in Staunton slightly north after Grand Theft Aero and the civil war between the Red Jacks and Purple Nines ending in a united Hoods under the RJs. (Although 'Triads and Tribulations' REALLY implies sweeping Leone gains in Chinatown that are never shown on the map so....eh judgement comes when we get there)

 

I know the earliest missions in GTA LCS seem to imply the spike in Sindacco activity is quite recent. I believe they came out ahead of the other two in San Andreas? Their the guys that basically have all of Las Venturas under their thumb, right? Never played SA so going off hearsay. I don't think Massimo is involved at all until a little later so we can ignore that for now.

 

Also I'm not just referring to where people overtly spawn in the overworld, that's just the most blatant. You gotta also consider where they extract protection money from, what the dialogue says.

[Anywhere USA]

As far as I'm concerned, the Staunton View Picnic Area in Cedar Grove (where Gripped! starts and Rumble takes place) was used to be a Ferry Terminal that lead to Shoreside Vale. I know it's not in the game, but the spot makes so much sense.

 

[CynicalMexican]

On 7/30/2021 at 2:25 PM, Anywhere USA said:

As far as I'm concerned, the Staunton View Picnic Area in Cedar Grove (where Gripped! starts and Rumble takes place) was used to be a Ferry Terminal that lead to Shoreside Vale. I know it's not in the game, but the spot makes so much sense.

 

 

I feel like the Cochrane Dam area could have houses a ferry terminal too.

[Anywhere USA]

Also, while walking on Cedar Ridge, I noticed that GTA 3 and GTA LCS have very different Upstate concepts.

 

Most notably, GTA 3 has a huge strip of narrow unsolid land that goes as far east as Lighthouse island on Portland, implying upstate is North of the entire city and Shoreside is simply the only connection point. GTA 3 also has the radar easter egg, which gives a rough outline of such an upstate area, with the two tunnels seemingly heading north along each side and possibly becoming roads.

 

GTA LCS has no land East of Liberty Coliseum. The area where in GTA 3 you'd have an invisible wall blocking you is instead a drop off into the ocean. There is still a rock ridge blocking you from the unsolid and untextured north, but Upstate seems to extend basically straight north of Shoreside. There is nothing, but water North of Portland and most of Staunton in the lore of LCS. There is no radar easter egg this time, but the tunnel we can see is obviously different, just a single tunnel heading dead north to a obviously much skinnier upstate.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Anywhere USA

[CynicalMexican]

If there's any game that would benefit with countryside it would be GTA 3. Upstate NY/New England has beautiful scenery.