Booke Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 I don't know why people like him and love him like he was a super hero or something. This man was clearly a bad guy. He killed many many people, he robbed banks and trains, beat up a sick man to death and even threatened his family, he corrupted people, and there's so many other things he did. Arthur Morgan shouldn't be a likeable protagonist and he should be hated for what he did. This man was a criminal and he deserved to die. Rajder, zBiglucky, MrBreak16 and 23 others 3 1 3 15 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter De Blanc Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 He seems to think so too Copcaller, Kerminator369, MrBreak16 and 8 others 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiejoearmstrong8 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) That's kind of the point....even though Arthur starts to change his ways and make amends it doesn't take away all the bad things he's done and ultimately he only achieves redemption by dying, having become a better person first. You also have to take into account he was born into a hard criminal life and raised in the gang by Dutch who was basically a cult leader. He recognised he was a bad person (even with Dutch's brainwashing about how noble their lifestyle was) but continued due to deeply ingrained loyalty to the gang and believing he wasn't good for anything else. Eventually realising different and trying to do better. He isn't a hero but nor is he 100% a villain. Like Francis McReary said, "You know there's no good, and no evil... just shades of f*cking grey". Edited June 14, 2021 by billiejoearmstrong8 E•MO•TION, EM_JAY_86, Jisoo and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tracker Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) According to this dude a likeable character and a criminal are oppossite terms. By this retarded logic we can say no other Rockstar protagonist (And many other AAA games's) is likeable, because they've killed far too people as well. Edited June 14, 2021 by The Tracker MrBreak16, Ondr4H, Kerminator369 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man With No Name Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) I agree. I like Arthur and others. But being gooder than guys like micah, doesn't makes you a good guy. He beaten up a sick man front of his family because of his debt. even continued to disrespect his family and threatened his son after his death. We can say same things about John Marston Edited June 14, 2021 by GroveStGTAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guns a-Blazin Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Why is Arthur getting singled out for killing people/committing crimes? I mean, he's a R* protagonist. What do you expect? Yes, ok, Arthur did some bad things like beating up a weak Thomas Downes for money and needlessly gun-butting those innocent passengers on the train but all the other things like robbing the riverboat and killing the antagonists are for the benefit of the gang. Besides, Arthur's character evolves throughout the story. He doesn't stay evil or careless like OP is suggesting. The Tracker, jaljax and NightmanCometh96 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiejoearmstrong8 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 4 hours ago, GroveStGTAV said: I agree. I like Arthur and others. But being gooder than guys like micah, doesn't makes you a good guy. He beaten up a sick man front of his family because of his debt. even continued to disrespect his family and threatened his son after his death. We can say same things about John Marston That's the stuff that happens at the beginning though. The point of his story is he changes and starts to be less bad and tries to make amends for bad things he did (eg helping that sick guy's family). It's true he isn't a "good guy", but I don't think he was ever supposed to be viewed as one anyway. He isn't portrayed as a hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tracker Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, FortifiedGooner86 said: Arthur's character evolves throughout the story. He doesn't stay evil or careless like OP is suggesting. He wasn't even "evil" in the first place, careless? Maybe, but not without reason, Arthur's character is way more complex than just a "bad guy turns good guy archetype" as OP probably like to think he is. Arthur is the depiction of a potentially good person, that turns out to be even less than the shadow of who he really could be, he is a product of a toxic environment, that sadly, is way more common in real life than anyone could think. Edited June 14, 2021 by The Tracker StyxTx, billiejoearmstrong8, Guns a-Blazin and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man With No Name Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 even mary-beth is evil too. She stolen lots of jewelry and moneys from innocent people. Only good guy in this gang is Reverend Swanson. He only did bad things to himself by using morphine/drinking a lot etc. Also he saved Dutch's life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangsparkinglot Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 He knew he wasn't a good guy till the end. Some of the redemption was to get John out. Pretty clear story trajectory billiejoearmstrong8 and Copcaller 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiejoearmstrong8 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 5 hours ago, GroveStGTAV said: even mary-beth is evil too. She stolen lots of jewelry and moneys from innocent people. Only good guy in this gang is Reverend Swanson. He only did bad things to himself by using morphine/drinking a lot etc. Also he saved Dutch's life Don't forget good old Pearson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeination Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 Likable and “good” aren’t synonymous. Besides, Arthur robs because Dutch robs, he’s following his father figure’s example since Dutch and Hosea are the only ones who bothered picking him up from his difficult youth. If you play as an honorable Arthur, you’ll see that he can be good natured, and even though he’s still struggling with his inner demons and the self-hatred from the horrible acts he has to commit for his gang, since fighting and loyalty is all he knows, he eventually realizes what truly matters and what he should’ve done, even if it was too late. 19 hours ago, The Tracker said: … he is a product of a toxic environment. Exactly. Most of the strangers that Arthur is on good terms with are writers, artists, and other creatives. With his skill in writing and talent for drawing, I can easily see Arthur as a writer, had he been born in a better place during a better time. Staff Edit: don't double post, merged NightmanCometh96, The Tracker, StyxTx and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hightower Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 20 hours ago, GroveStGTAV said: even mary-beth is evil too. She stolen lots of jewelry and moneys from innocent people. Only good guy in this gang is Reverend Swanson. He only did bad things to himself by using morphine/drinking a lot etc. Also he saved Dutch's life Um Rev Swanson stole a pocket watch from the guys he was playing poker with. He's also a freeloader. Funny thing about Swanson is that he was one of the best characters in chapter 1 and then he falls completely on his face in chapter 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygrowls Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 On 6/14/2021 at 3:10 AM, Booke said: This man was a criminal and he deserved to die. Copcaller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copcaller Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Yeah he did all that and more but that's what made it compelling as he realized dutch wasn't leading them anywhere and he sought to redeem himself by saving John and his family. wangsparkinglot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddenedGhost Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Likable characters and criminals aren't opposing terms, plus in my walkthroughs I played as honorable as possible, so besides the mandatory mischievous activities, Arthur was not as bad as you are describing him to be. Those debt missions seemed forced on him, they made me dislike Strauss more, up until I learned that he never talked even under torture. This game's characters are a bit more complicated than that. Besides Micah... dude was trash from the beginning and I hated him the moment I saw him in Colter. Taterman and billiejoearmstrong8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADropInTheOcean Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Dizzyo and The Tracker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Spaz Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Its better when you play with low honor. Doesn't make you feel as bad for his death. Still pretty sad though when he gets diagnosed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tracker Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 On 7/3/2021 at 1:30 AM, Johnny Spaz said: Its better when you play with low honor. Doesn't make you feel as bad for his death. Still pretty sad though when he gets diagnosed. I personally see Low-Honor as way sadder, as he dies having wasted his life, taking it down to the wrong path without making up for it, while in High-Honor, Arthur at least has a purpose to accomplish before his death, he had a mission to do, and accomplished it to some extent. Liberty-TG, Caffeination and billiejoearmstrong8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter De Blanc Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Low honor = I'm taking as many motherf*ckers out with me as I can before I die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLand Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Arthur Morgan deserved to die and Micah deserved to live. Micah was the only realist in this game and he played his cards the best way he possibly could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiejoearmstrong8 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Uncle was the true realist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo256 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 11:49 PM, billiejoearmstrong8 said: Uncle was the true realist Uncle is too lazy to be anything. Charles is more of a realist I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiejoearmstrong8 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 7:51 PM, Ryo256 said: Uncle is too lazy to be anything. Charles is more of a realist I think. Charles is a realist for sure. Uncle isn't lazy, he just doesn't like working, there's a difference! But he was also a real one The Tracker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLand Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Micah is the real realist because he knew the "Outlaw life" was coming to it's end and civilization with it's rules and laws was coming to the west to stay forever. That's why he made a deal with the Pinkertons. His life and freedom in exchange for Dutch Van der Linde and his gang. The Tracker and billiejoearmstrong8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badman_ Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) On 6/13/2021 at 11:10 PM, Booke said: I don't know why people like him and love him like he was a super hero or something. This man was clearly a bad guy. He killed many many people, he robbed banks and trains, beat up a sick man to death and even threatened his family, he corrupted people, and there's so many other things he did. Arthur Morgan shouldn't be a likeable protagonist and he should be hated for what he did. This man was a criminal and he deserved to die. You are partially right. Arthur isn't a good man or a hero and he had it coming. His death was a consequence of his own terrible actions. But a character doesn't need to be "good" or a hero to be likeable. Arthur is praised as a protagonist because he is compelling. He is a man who reached the realization that he spent most of his life in vain, not just hurting other people (killing, robbing, lying) but also himself. You never see Arthur asking for forgiveness or trying to justify his previous mistakes. Even Arthur knows that he isn't a good guy. At the end of the game he is just genuily acknowledging the wrongdoings of his past and trying to compensate somehow (he's also hellbent on preventing others he cares about from following the same path as he did). This is redemption, dude. It's the entire premise of the story. It's not supposed to be lightful and colorful, and you might not like it, but you have to admit that it's engaging. Edited July 6, 2021 by Wolfman_ billiejoearmstrong8, The Tracker and Taterman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man With No Name Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 I forgot to mention: Arthur and Javier killed an entire family even with woman. Just for their money stash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tracker Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/7/2021 at 3:47 AM, GroveStGTAV said: I forgot to mention: Arthur and Javier killed an entire family even with woman. Just for their money stash Well, that was a family of outlaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hightower Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 On 7/7/2021 at 5:30 AM, The Tracker said: Well, that was a family of outlaws. They murdered them before they even confirmed that there was a stash at all. They were no good mother-f*ckers and they knew it too. Every one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tracker Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) On 7/20/2021 at 10:07 PM, Buddy Hightower said: They murdered them before they even confirmed that there was a stash at all. That doesn't make that family any less criminal or "bad" Edited July 21, 2021 by The Tracker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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