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How did the Lost MC become so b*tched over the years?


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almightyvasi
Posted (edited)

The Lost MC had a nice time in TLAD, they had somewhat of a good image of a biker club with values and story that wouldn't disappoint any quality TV series if they would've made one, but in GTA V they seemed to completely ridicule their MC. 

To start off with the obvious, Johnny. Although I would've understood if the MC went for an all-out retaliation in the process of the game eventually coming after Trevor in later missions, but the thing is, it only took 3 missions to almost completely wipe them out with no continuation whatsoever as they were some pathetic side-kick for the series this entire time, and unfortunately it turned out to be true. 

 

The gang constantly getting bitched by everyone in the Online missions, the members and all the club base really feel cheesy as hell, stealing wallets off old ladies in the streets and being unpleasant punks. The remaining main characters from TLAD forgotten entirely after the first encounter with Trevor, and finally f*cking Ashley. Really? Did they have to even relocate them to Los Santos from the beginning turning them to meth junkies? overall, like few dominant IV characters, they became a sad joke. 

 

I know this must have been discussed before but still, looking back it is pretty devastating, especially for older fans. What do you think?

Edited by almightyvasi
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StuntMaster100

Yeah it's been discussed a lot. Most people agree killing Johnny off that way was lame. It might be sort of a message from Rockstar signalling the end of the IV era. There was a big backlash against IV and TLaD or being dark and gritty.

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Aquamaniac

The Lost were a mess already in IV and split in two factions if I remember correctly, so putting an end to them and Johnny makes sense for me.

 

R* must hate bikers/the Lost, even playing as Johnny you slaughter Lost members in large numbers, so does Niko and Louis (?), the Lost were punks we killed right from the start.

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The Lost has reached a low point at the end of TLAD. I believe that, at some point like in 2010, Johnny and co. were driven out from Liberty City, maybe because of gang activity (AoD grows stronger) or police intervention. They started to look for new turfs for three years, travelling all the way to west coast.

 

During the trip, maybe many of the Lost members got killed, left the club, or even betray them. Basically the Lost had more struggle and conflicts while finding a new home throughout America. This will explain why they eventually goes into drug business, it is their last resort to keep their club financial health. This will also explain why Johnny transformed, he cannot handle these problems alone and the responsibility was too much for him.

 

It will be very interesting to explore The Lost's downfall if this theory is canon. 

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almightyvasi
25 minutes ago, wise_man said:

The Lost has reached a low point at the end of TLAD. I believe that, at some point like in 2010, Johnny and co. were driven out from Liberty City, maybe because of gang activity (AoD grows stronger) or police intervention. They started to look for new turfs for three years, travelling all the way to west coast.

 

During the trip, maybe many of the Lost members got killed, left the club, or even betray them. Basically the Lost had more struggle and conflicts while finding a new home throughout America. This will explain why they eventually goes into drug business, it is their last resort to keep their club financial health. This will also explain why Johnny transformed, he cannot handle these problems alone and the responsibility was too much for him.

 

It will be very interesting to explore The Lost's downfall if this theory is canon. 

That's somewhat understandable, maybe they should've add more detail to their demise or add a rival club to the Lost MC like AOD to give more contrast to the game. I feel like they completely trashed all the biker saga in GTA V imo.

I'll pray for a SP Mod that'll add variety of biker gameplay

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Posted (edited)

R* were lazy, stupid, or both when it comes to bikers with V. They go against all the lore established in TLAD (AOD are too big, no point expanding west) and the ending (dropping flags because of code (backstabbing brothers) and letting junkie trash die), just to use them again in V instead of having the AOD there or a whole new gang.

Edited by B Dawg
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billiejoearmstrong8
8 hours ago, Aquamaniac said:

The Lost were a mess already in IV and split in two factions if I remember correctly, so putting an end to them and Johnny makes sense for me.

 

R* must hate bikers/the Lost, even playing as Johnny you slaughter Lost members in large numbers, so does Niko and Louis (?), the Lost were punks we killed right from the start.

 

Exactly, I dunno why people act like they were riding high in TLAD and then "ruined" in V. They were already on a downward spiral long before V. The game is was literally called "The Lost and Damned", clue was in the name.

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CynicalMexican

Had Johnny cut off all ties with Ashley, he wouldn't have become a druggie. Really, Ashley is the massive wrecking ball of cancer who should've been left behind long ago.

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universetwisters

Because Johnny did drugs and drugs are bad

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DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2021 at 10:42 PM, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

Exactly, I dunno why people act like they were riding high in TLAD and then "ruined" in V. They were already on a downward spiral long before V. The game is was literally called "The Lost and Damned", clue was in the name.

that don't explain how they managed to make a big move towards the west coast after getting blown apart like a zeppelin back in liberty, let alone build up a huge meth operation with huge numbers when in reality angels were meant to be there.

 

it's like they're powerful but not powerful at the same time. sh*t makes no sense. then again why do i care, the whole canon is as reliable as fox news.

Edited by DownInThePMs
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CynicalMexican
39 minutes ago, DownInThePMs said:

that don't explain how they managed to make a big move towards the west coast after getting blown apart like a zeppelin back in liberty, let alone build up a huge meth operation with huge numbers when in reality angels were meant to be there.

 

it's like they're powerful but not powerful at the same time. sh*t makes no sense. then again why do i care, the whole canon is as reliable as fox news.

Tbh, I wouldn't be shocked if it were retconned that the Lost MC had chapters on the West Coast, hence Johnny's presence in 2013

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The lost were never the biggest gang the civil war and the loss of the club house only made matters worse. I don't really get why Rockstar used the lost for V when the angels of death or a Mongols style club would have made more sense. If anything the lost should have went to carcer city or another mid west city.

 

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CynicalMexican
29 minutes ago, Copcaller said:

The lost were never the biggest gang the civil war and the loss of the club house only made matters worse. I don't really get why Rockstar used the lost for V when the angels of death or a Mongols style club would have made more sense. If anything the lost should have went to carcer city or another mid west city.

 

Aren't the IRL Hell's Angels pretty big on the West Coast alongside the Mongols? Missed oppo there.

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On 6/2/2021 at 4:42 PM, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

Exactly, I dunno why people act like they were riding high in TLAD and then "ruined" in V. They were already on a downward spiral long before V. The game is was literally called "The Lost and Damned", clue was in the name.

The gang wasn't ruined,but the lore was.In TLAD it was established that The Lost MC had a chapter in Alderney (Johnny's chapter,who's only surviving members at the end of the game are Johnny, Terry, Clay and Angus) and another one in Liberty City (they appear in mission Diamonds In The Rough),and that San Andreas was a home state of Angels Of Death.It makes no sense that in GTA 5 The Lost suddenly has chapters across the United States,and that Alderney chapter has moved to Los Santos (it would be like if four guys,one of which is in a wheelchair,managed to kick Hells Angels out of California).It also makes no sense that a gang that's now presented as one of the biggest and most powerful biker gangs in the country constantly gets destroyed by both Trevor and Online protagonists like a bunch of pushovers.

 

8 hours ago, CynicalMexican said:

Aren't the IRL Hell's Angels pretty big on the West Coast alongside the Mongols? Missed oppo there.

Yeah,they were both formed in California.In GTA TLAD,it was also said that Angels Of Death were originally from San Andreas.

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50 minutes ago, GTA-Biker said:

It makes no sense that in GTA 5 The Lost suddenly has chapters across the United States,and that Alderney chapter has moved to Los Santos (it would be like if four guys,one of which is in a wheelchair,managed to kick Hells Angels out of California)

Man whatever the writers of this game were smoking when they came up with this nonsense, I want none of it.

Edited by DownInThePMs
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I mean I get it when people are annoyed because they think they got the characters wrong or Johnny's death was done badly just for shock value or whatever. But I just can't imagine caring about which biker gang is in the correct place (especially when it's 5 years later so it could've changed) or other trivial details like that. I guess Rockstar also felt it wasn't important enough to stop them writing it the way they wanted. 

 

Also what would've been the alternative, having the lame joke AOD with no recognisable characters in the game instead of getting to catch up with The Lost? I don't see how that's better.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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5 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

I mean I get it when people are annoyed because they think they got the characters wrong or Johnny's death was done badly just for shock value or whatever. But I just can't imagine caring about which biker gang is in the correct place (especially when it's 5 years later so it could've changed) or other trivial details like that. I guess Rockstar also felt it wasn't important enough to stop them writing it the way they wanted. 

 

Also what would've been the alternative, having the lame joke AOD with no recognisable characters in the game instead of getting to catch up with The Lost? I don't see how that's better.

Everyone associates hells angels with being the biggest west coast biker gang and the Mongols also have a huge presence on the west coast it'd have been nice to see gangs based on them get some focus instead of shoehorning the lost in. 

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1 hour ago, Copcaller said:

Everyone associates hells angels with being the biggest west coast biker gang and the Mongols also have a huge presence on the west coast it'd have been nice to see gangs based on them get some focus instead of shoehorning the lost in. 

 

Yeah but AoD in TLAD are literally just racist buffoons who are a joke and exist to be disliked (and not even disliked in a cool way, they're just dumbasses). If they wanted to make bikers a really big part of the story I could see them reinventing the AoD as a proper Hell's Angels style gang with new characters. But for the amount they're in the game I think it's understandable that they went with the more well known and liked biker gang with existing characters.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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31 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

Yeah but AoD in TLAD are literally just racist buffoons who are a joke and exist to be disliked (and not even disliked in a cool way, they're just dumbasses). If they wanted to make bikers a really big part of the story I could see them reinventing the AoD as a proper Hell's Angels style gang with new characters. But for the amount they're in the game I think it's understandable that they went with the more well known and liked biker gang with existing characters.

That's the liberty chapter though perhaps the west coast ones could have been more competent from what I've seen modern day hells angels have kind of lessened the whole white power aspect. Idk I just feel like not including the angels of death in V was one of the numerous mistakes rockstar made. 

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I mean they had Johnny as leader. There's only one way they can go with such a guy as leader. But I don't think their downfall started sometime between 2008-2013. As we saw in TLAD they were already going downhill before the game had even started. So the downfall had already begun. Also with the exception of a few people I don't see much difference between their behavior in TLAD and V. Both mostly act like pricks.

Edited by TheSantader25
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9 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

I mean I get it when people are annoyed because they think they got the characters wrong or Johnny's death was done badly just for shock value or whatever. But I just can't imagine caring about which biker gang is in the correct place (especially when it's 5 years later so it could've changed) or other trivial details like that. I guess Rockstar also felt it wasn't important enough to stop them writing it the way they wanted. 

 

Also what would've been the alternative, having the lame joke AOD with no recognisable characters in the game instead of getting to catch up with The Lost? I don't see how that's better.

But that's the thing. There's so much inconsistency with the way the biker gangs are written. And it's not even well retconned either. 

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The worst part is, in GTAV it's confirmed that there was a huge biker gang war in 2011 where The Lost took on the Angels of Death and managed to drive them out of Los Santos and Blaine County. So they were clearly stronger at SOME point after TLAD and before GTAV.

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I mean like, that chapter of The Lost went to sh*t in Alderney, went over to the West Coast, had some wars with the Angels of Death (who may have been weak at the time) and got rid of them, then at some point they also became weakened (Johnny through Ashley's influence, maybe the gang as a whole through conflict with other non biker gangs eg the Aztecas). It's not any more of a stretch than justifying why any of the IV characters turned up in LS. I think more than enough thought was put into it and more than enough explanation can be figured out considering how small their role is in the story. 

 

16 hours ago, Copcaller said:

That's the liberty chapter though perhaps the west coast ones could have been more competent from what I've seen modern day hells angels have kind of lessened the whole white power aspect. Idk I just feel like not including the angels of death in V was one of the numerous mistakes rockstar made. 

 

Yeah I agree they could've done a different version of AoD. It would've required more screen time to introduce this lesser known and also now different gang and new characters though, so I think it only would've been suitable to do that if bikers were going to play a bigger role in the story. For the role the bikers played it's understandable that they went with The Lost imo.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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ive been trying to really immerse myself in the lost mc for something ive been writing for a while and really i dont think much about gta 5's depiction is very 'contradictory' or implausible. if you want to say you prefer tlad's that's fine but even in iv there's some inconsistencies with how the club operates. weekly church is only implied. they have a blue building to the right of their clubhouse covered in lost mc insignia - it's a biker bar or something - that is inaccessible. they switch between the jargon of big national clubs and smaller ones all the time. there's the gunthugs in iv, alt texture for lost guys, which has LITERALLY no relevance. and then there's how often the club flip-flops between patching in black guys (a major faux pas among mcs) and waving confederate flags.

 

the lost mc are sort of an amalgamation of various clubs. the outlaws obviously, but also the mongols and the pagans. the pagans had a big war with the hells angels in philly and a leader (steve the gorilla mondevergine) who wasnt a lot unlike billy grey. they have mongols colors and iconography, the fact they patch in latinos, and in v replace the mongols. and they have the motto and primarily take from the outlaws, who are chicago-based and actually claim the midwest as their territory as opposed to the east coast. i find it really hard to believe the lost is ONLY based in the lc area, it would both make legitimately more sense that they have clubs in other states (they talk about 'the chapter' as opposed to 'the club' and no the presence of a single other chapter in brooklyn doesnt justify that) both for their resources and prominence. clay says the club isnt 'national' but elaborates he means on the other coast, which could easily mean they at least have a chapter in like florida or something lol. the only club i can think of that operated like the lost and ALSO was largely independent were rock machine in montreal, who were feuding with the angels and the rizzuto mob for street-level drug distribution territory, but were also vicious french canadian nazis. doesnt exactly ring like johnny k's boys

 

the aod stuff about gang wars and being wiped out are all headcanon imo. they could easily exist and just not have any relevance to the story. the angels also dont "run" socal - los angeles is disputed territory and the big three clubs from my understanding are the mongols in east la, vagos mc, and the angels who dont have a specific LA patch (their local club is based in their founding city of san bernardino). i dont really think the lost operate in a 'cringey' or dumb way any more than they did in iv, and the only reason theyre a constant target in V is the fact theyre the only npc mc in v. which was probably a mistake

 

its all just about bridging the gap. gta 4, tbogt and tlad all end on notes where anything could happen for the protagonists. luis and tony could be bigshots forever or they could be dead by next week. niko could move on, or he could wallow in misery. johnny cuts off ashley, but this isnt the first time hes done this. with johnny, he could cut his ties or he could relapse. tlad is all about relapse - it literally starts at a rehab clinic and begins with the club relapsing into wanton violence - it makes sense that johnny would relapse all the same with the girl he's always loved if you see the ending cynically. im writing rode mine because i want to see that in between, but i understand rockstar not exactly wanting to make a blockbuster game about the midwestern meth trade

Edited by slimeball supreme
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At this point, I'm just going to assume the Lost MC had San Andreas chapters.

 

Who knows, perhaps by 2013, Johnny became a joke within the Lost and they'd moved on. Probably some unseen leader was already in control prior to Johnny's death. 

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6 hours ago, CynicalMexican said:

At this point, I'm just going to assume the Lost MC had San Andreas chapters.

This is what's confusing writing wise since in TLAD it's implied that there's at LEAST a nomad chapter in San Andreas as that's where Johnny and Brian went in 2004. Then in GTAV it's stated that ALL the Lost MC in San Andreas followed Johnny there?

 

7 hours ago, CynicalMexican said:

Who knows, perhaps by 2013, Johnny became a joke within the Lost and they'd moved on.

This is another thing implied when you play the missions where Trevor blows up Stab City, if you take the stealth approach, you overhear some Lost MC members talking about how Johnny messed things up for them and how they would've been better if Billy was still around.

 

The writing seems very back and forth on what happened with The Lost MC.

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1 hour ago, OOOOO said:

Should have just been the Angels of Death in V instead of the Lost MC. That would have made the most sense and most fans would have been happier. Didn't make much sense.

 

Does anyone like or care about the AoD though? In TLAD they're literally just dumb racists who act like fools, and even if they changed that aspect they don't have any real characters, just a faceless group of generic bikers. Nothing they could've done with them would've made the impact that seeing The Lost and Johnny get killed off did because no one cares about them, it would've just been "meh" and no more noteworthy than the few Aztecas being taken out afterwards.

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4 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

Does anyone like or care about the AoD though? In TLAD they're literally just dumb racists who act like fools, and even if they changed that aspect they don't have any real characters, just a faceless group of generic bikers. Nothing they could've done with them would've made the impact that seeing The Lost and Johnny get killed off did because no one cares about them, it would've just been "meh" and no more noteworthy than the few Aztecas being taken out afterwards.

Do they need to be more than just generic? Not really. Does every gang in the game need to have important characters? No.

Why would anyone want to go against a protagonist or gang you played as in a previous game even (or at least in such a dumb way that you're fighting unrecognizable versions of them that shouldn't even be there), when you could instead fight the same old enemies or even new ones instead?

Maybe R* should have gone all the way then and made Franklin part of the Ballas then, or betraying Grove Street to start a drug empire ;)

Edited by B Dawg
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2 hours ago, B Dawg said:

Do they need to be more than just generic? Not really. Does every gang in the game need to have important characters? No.

Why would anyone want to go against a protagonist or gang you played as in a previous game even (or at least in such a dumb way that you're fighting unrecognizable versions of them that shouldn't even be there), when you could instead fight the same old enemies or even new ones instead?

Maybe R* should have gone all the way then and made Franklin part of the Ballas then, or betraying Grove Street to start a drug empire ;)

 

I'm a fan of how they did Johnny's death so I like it that way :P. It's impactful and memorable in a way that just getting rid of a random gang wouldn't have been. 

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