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Miserable gang members


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RDR2 could have been the definitive outlaw game. I was expecting an experience where I play as a criminal, running with a gang that takes great joy in all of their exploits. What did we get? A game with a bunch of manic depressives. Every member of the Van der Linde gang behaves like Max Payne, with nothing but negative things to say about their lives and the future of the gang. Would it have killed Rockstar to have given them a more positive, smiley outlook on things? They're all such gloomy gusses - pathetic.

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FortifiedGooner86

Miserable? Ah, I wouldn't call them miserable. Charles, Hosea, Jack, Josiah, Lenny, Mary-Beth, Sean, Tilly and Uncle always seemed to be in high sprits to me. You could even make a case or two for Dutch and Karen?

 

Besides, they're outlaws. They're running for their lives. Not all of them are gonna be 100% happy and positive like those 11 members I mentioned above. You need a mix of personalities in a gang and we got that in RDR2. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, FortifiedGooner86 said:

Miserable? Ah, I wouldn't call them miserable. Charles, Hosea, Jack, Josiah, Lenny, Mary-Beth, Sean, Tilly and Uncle always seemed to be in high sprits to me. You could even make a case or two for Dutch and Karen?

 

Besides, they're outlaws. They're running for their lives. Not all of them are gonna be 100% happy and positive like those 11 members I mentioned above. You need a mix of personalities in a gang and we got that in RDR2. 

I wholeheartedly disagree. I wanted something akin to a band of 'merry men', with an emphasis on the 'merry'. Arthur is quite miserable for an outlaw; this sort of lifetsyle would have been great fun, but his comments don't reflect this. 

 

Hosea wasn't that happy. He kept showing doubt about Dutch's plans, thus helping to breed pain and upset.

Edited by brwhizz32
I forgot to add this part.
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Buddy Hightower
1 hour ago, brwhizz32 said:

this sort of lifetsyle would have been great fun

Are you serious? That lifestyle would have sucked balls!

Of course they are miserable!!! duh!

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Cutter De Blanc
14 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

I mean Micah is pretty happy to be here 😆

Yeah, I mean love him or hate him Micah is always having a pretty great time of it

 

Strauss doesn't really seem unhappy with his lot in life either

 

Lenny and Sean were pretty cheerful too

 

Uncle and Karen are drunks though, their cheer seems mostly artificial

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, brwhizz32 said:

this sort of lifetsyle would have been great fun

 

It certainly wouldn't. They were going for a healthy dose of realism with this game, in reality it probably would've been even more miserable and desperate. To survive the way they were everyone would've had to be working to exhaustion rather than sitting around chilling, for a start. Constant threat of the law and enemies, living in grim conditions outdoors in all weathers, dealing with past trauma that led them to join Dutch's cult gang and present trauma of all the violence and bad things they do. And remember it's about the last days of the gang and how it fell apart rather than its heyday. All things considered I think they make the best of it, getting some enjoyment out of their exploits and campfire singalongs etc, plus several of them have a happier disposition or a good sense of humour.

 

I think they're happy in the sense that they live with a degree of freedom, they have a bond with each other and the lives they had before were so horrible that it seems good in comparison. But it's not a merry lifestyle.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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Lemoyne outlaw

i think a lot of the comments above explain it perfectly. the game is realistic. there are good and bad moments in the gang. they had multiple parties. singing songs and just hanging out. but you have times when things are bad. so people are more negative. there are plenty of times when we see arthur laugh and is happy.

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8 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

Are you serious? That lifestyle would have sucked balls!

Of course they are miserable!!! duh!

Are you kidding me?! Butch Cassidy said it himself: 'Let's you and me jump in that river.' This is an expression of joy by real life outlaws such as him. 

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Cutter De Blanc

You wanna talk about miserable gang members, I've noticed that in pretty much every interaction with Molly she is just profoundly unhappy or angry all of the time. Like, she has major depression or something, yet still thinks she's superior to everyone around her. I wonder if she was ever pleasant to deal with?

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2 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

You wanna talk about miserable gang members, I've noticed that in pretty much every interaction with Molly she is just profoundly unhappy or angry all of the time. Like, she has major depression or something, yet still thinks she's superior to everyone around her. I wonder if she was ever pleasant to deal with?

 

Poor Molly she gave her wealthy lifestyle to be with a man that didn't deserved her...

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)

Dutch really did treat Molly like sh*t. Took her away from a nice life to live in a crappy place with the danger of being killed/arrested only to ignore her and creepily flirt with other young women in the camp while leading her on with just enough poetic promises of love to keep her there hoping, driving her to alcohol and her subsequent murder. Dutch always was a manipulator and exploiter of every person in the gang, specifically seeking out very vulnerable people to recruit. I don't get when people act he was all good before the trolley accident or before Hosea dying etc, just because he believed in his philosophy and hadn't completely lost his sense of reason it doesn't mean it was actually a good philosophy, that he followed it/preached it only for unselfish reasons or that he wasn't already a sh*tty person.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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Buddy Hightower
On 5/28/2021 at 8:59 PM, DelLobo said:

 

Poor Molly she gave her wealthy lifestyle to be with a man that didn't deserved her...

 

On 5/29/2021 at 12:28 AM, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

Dutch really did treat Molly like sh*t. Took her away from a nice life to live in a crappy place with the danger of being killed/arrested only to ignore her and creepily flirt with other young women in the camp while leading her on with just enough poetic promises of love to keep her there hoping, driving her to alcohol and her subsequent murder. Dutch always was a manipulator and exploiter of every person in the gang, specifically seeking out very vulnerable people to recruit. I don't get when people act he was all good before the trolley accident or before Hosea dying etc, just because he believed in his philosophy and hadn't completely lost his sense of reason it doesn't mean it was actually a good philosophy, that he followed it/preached it only for unselfish reasons or that he wasn't already a sh*tty person.

 

Where did Molly's backstory come up?

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Buddy Hightower said:

 

 

Where did Molly's backstory come up?

 

I can't remember exactly but it's put across that she's from a well off family, Sean teases her for it for example. Dutch swept her off her feet with all his romance and poems etc (and I'm sure tales of how amazing life is in the gang) and brought her to live in a sh*tty camp and neglected her.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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Buddy Hightower
2 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

I can't remember exactly but it's put across that she's from a well off family, Sean teases her for it for example. Dutch swept her off her feet with all his romance and poems etc (and I'm sure tales of how amazing life is in the gang) and brought her to live in a sh*tty camp and neglected her.

I thought she was just one of the girls that Dutch took after his last girl (Annabell?) died.

When Tilly asked if they should have brought Molly with them to valentine, Karen said that Molly was too good for them NOW, as if she was just one of them before.

I figured Dutch just goes through them as he pleases, same as he did with Ms Grimshaw before she got too old.

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billiejoearmstrong8
9 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

I thought she was just one of the girls that Dutch took after his last girl (Annabell?) died.

When Tilly asked if they should have brought Molly with them to valentine, Karen said that Molly was too good for them NOW, as if she was just one of them before.

I figured Dutch just goes through them as he pleases, same as he did with Ms Grimshaw before she got too old.

 

Yeah he was with Grimshaw before but I didn't get the vibe that he'd been with/would be with any of the others in the camp. None of them are prostitutes any more (even with Karen it just seems like she runs a scam pretending to be to rob people) and other than his flirting there isn't a vibe where it's like the girls are there to be slept with. Micah is seen as very creepy for thinking they should be. I think Molly was probably just more enthusiastic about the gang when she first joined (based on whatever Dutch had told her) but quickly changed her opinion once she was in the reality of it. I think Dutch brought her there to be his girlfriend more than to be a gang member but then he ignored her so she was just stuck there useless and depressed hoping for Dutch's attention. 

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icebeeblue
On 5/28/2021 at 8:56 PM, Buddy Hightower said:

Are you serious? That lifestyle would have sucked balls!

Of course they are miserable!!! duh!

Suffering with a bad life fuhh

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Cutter De Blanc
11 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

Yeah he was with Grimshaw before but I didn't get the vibe that he'd been with/would be with any of the others in the camp. None of them are prostitutes any more (even with Karen it just seems like she runs a scam pretending to be to rob people) and other than his flirting there isn't a vibe where it's like the girls are there to be slept with. Micah is seen as very creepy for thinking they should be. I think Molly was probably just more enthusiastic about the gang when she first joined (based on whatever Dutch had told her) but quickly changed her opinion once she was in the reality of it. I think Dutch brought her there to be his girlfriend more than to be a gang member but then he ignored her so she was just stuck there useless and depressed hoping for Dutch's attention. 

There was this camp scene I saw on my most recent playthrough where Dutch was creeping pretty heavily on Mary-Beth. I used to think Molly was just being paranoid but now I'm not so sure

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billiejoearmstrong8
30 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

There was this camp scene I saw on my most recent playthrough where Dutch was creeping pretty heavily on Mary-Beth. I used to think Molly was just being paranoid but now I'm not so sure

 

Yeah he's pretty bad with it. Very cringy :lol: 

 

 

 

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Just been playing through the Beaver Hollow section of the game, which SHOULD be the most cheerful part of the story, as the gang have now nearly amassed enough money to leave for 'greener pastures', but, yet again, nothing but negative comments from the gang members. Why did Rockstar do this?

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billiejoearmstrong8
9 minutes ago, brwhizz32 said:

Just been playing through the Beaver Hollow section of the game, which SHOULD be the most cheerful part of the story, as the gang have now nearly amassed enough money to leave for 'greener pastures', but, yet again, nothing but negative comments from the gang members. Why did Rockstar do this?

 

Because the game is about the downfall of the gang. The whole thing (with both the gang as a whole and Arthur himself) is kind of a subversion of the usual rags to riches/weak to strong/small to big journey you expect to get in video games. There's moments of happiness to be found in there though.

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40 minutes ago, brwhizz32 said:

Just been playing through the Beaver Hollow section of the game, which SHOULD be the most cheerful part of the story, as the gang have now nearly amassed enough money to leave for 'greener pastures', but, yet again, nothing but negative comments from the gang members. Why did Rockstar do this?

Beaver Hollow should be the most cheerful part of the story!? Beaver Hollow??? The part of the story after they've just watched the smartest and longest serving gang member Hosea die in front of them? The part after where they've just watched the youngest and brightest gang member Lenny die in front of them? The part after where everyone, including the women and children, just fought for their lives to escape an ambush by the Pinkertons?  Where they are now living by a torture cave that was just filled with the nastiest psychopaths you would ever want to meet, which is filled up with bones and stinking flesh? Where Dutch is going completely crazy? Where Micah is trying to tear the gang apart? Where Molly just got blown away in front of everyone by a shotgun? Where Arthur is dying? As the Pinkertons are closing in and the gang have run out of places to run to? Where any one in the gang with any sense is now terrified of being killed at any moment? This should be the most cheerful part of the story??

 

You don't get this game. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Beaver Hollow should be the most cheerful part of the story!? Beaver Hollow??? The part of the story after they've just watched the smartest and longest serving gang member Hosea die in front of them? The part after where they've just watched the youngest and brightest gang member Lenny die in front of them? The part after where everyone, including the women and children, just fought for their lives to escape an ambush by the Pinkertons?  Where they are now living by a torture cave that was just filled with the nastiest psychopaths you would ever want to meet, which is filled up with bones and stinking flesh? Where Dutch is going completely crazy? Where Micah is trying to tear the gang apart? Where Molly just got blown away in front of everyone by a shotgun? Where Arthur is dying? As the Pinkertons are closing in and the gang have run out of places to run to? Where any one in the gang with any sense is now terrified of being killed at any moment? This should be the most cheerful part of the story??

 

You don't get this game. 

It really wasn’t all that bad. The gang would have got back on their feet eventually, stronger than ever before, and Arthur would have recovered from his illness. People usually survived TB by this time - treatment was actually better then than it is now, because pollution was lower. Even Sadie tells him this at some point. It was only because Arthur fought with Micah that he weakened himself enough to die.

Edited by brwhizz32
Forgot to include this.
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Posted (edited)

What we got was a masterpiece of story telling, but what R* couldn't shake off was the large section of whiners in the fan base who just can't be pleased.

Edited by Jimbatron
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Cutter De Blanc

They should've just stayed in Colter, chop some f*cking wood and build a fire or something 

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18 hours ago, Jimbatron said:

What we got was a masterpiece of story telling, but what R* couldn't shake off was the large section of whiners in the fan base who just can't be pleased.

Come on! Are you really telling me that this is the story we wanted and deserved?! Rockstar had originally planned to have Arthur live and build a casino in Annesburg, which would have been much better. This would have led to casino side missions, etc. I don't know why they abandoned this idea.

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, brwhizz32 said:

Come on! Are you really telling me that this is the story we wanted and deserved?! Rockstar had originally planned to have Arthur live and build a casino in Annesburg, which would have been much better. This would have led to casino side missions, etc. I don't know why they abandoned this idea.

 

No offense but that sounds....terrible. What we got was an extremely impactful story and ending, a tale of redemption with Arthur paying the ultimate price for his bad deeds having learned to be a better person along the way. Arthur builds a casino and everyone lives happily ever after? That sucks. Where on earth did you hear that was planned? Also:

 

Quote

By the late 19th century, 70–90% of the urban populations of Europe and North America were infected with the Mycobacterium tuberculosis, and about 80% of those individuals who developed active TB died of it.[65] However, mortality rates began declining in the late 19th century throughout Europe and the United States

 

"Began declining" doesn't mean most people lived. Especially not poor people living a harsh outdoor life in a non-hot and dry climate. TB was still a massive killer in 1899. Did you also miss the part where Dutch was becoming increasingly unhinged, Micah was negatively influencing everything and the gang was becoming more distrustful of each other and weaker by the day, and in more and more danger from the Pinkertons? It really was all that bad. I have to assume you're trolling.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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The only weak part story wise imo was Guarma, for some reason the gang survives a ship wreck and conveniently end up in a Island connected to Cornwall.

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7 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

No offense but that sounds....terrible. What we got was an extremely impactful story and ending, a tale of redemption with Arthur paying the ultimate price for his bad deeds having learned to be a better person along the way. Arthur builds a casino and everyone lives happily ever after? That sucks. Where on earth did you hear that was planned? Also:

 

 

"Began declining" doesn't mean most people lived. Especially not poor people living a harsh outdoor life in a non-hot and dry climate. TB was still a massive killer in 1899. Did you also miss the part where Dutch was becoming increasingly unhinged, Micah was negatively influencing everything and the gang was becoming more distrustful of each other and weaker by the day, and in more and more danger from the Pinkertons? It really was all that bad. I have to assume you're trolling.

I think you’re wrong. In many ways, life was a lot easier back in the 1800s, because of cleaner air, natural food, etc. This meant actual death rates 

from TB were actually very low. Rockstar killed off Arthur because they wanted to make the story more dramatic.

 

Arthur becoming rich from owning a casino would have been much more emotional and powerful than the bland, dull ending we got.

 

 

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