Why Does Catalina Even Shoot Claude To Begin With?

[Blaze]

4 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

@Staunton Assassin

It's in character for Catalina to backstab someone, what's not is her staying with said person for 9 whole years, it makes 0 sense.

 

Do you understand canon? III was written YEARS before the SA rendition of Claude, the time period between CJ > Claude is irrelevant in terms of solely discussing GTA3's plot.

Edited April 14, 2021 by sombrA

[Carbonox]

She realized the getaway vehicle (Banshee) only had 2 doors, and someone had to be sacrificed to make space.

[Evil empire]

Catalina shoots Claude because it's written in the main.scm.

 

From an immersion-friendly point of view she's a psychopath and considers men like tools she can get rid of when she doesn't need them any longer.

[Copcaller]

Because she's ruthless and it's the best way to deal with loose ends. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[universetwisters]

Because Catalina was an ambitious girl and Claude was small time. Daaamn didn't you listen to anything in the game?

[VM_1701]

She got the chance to become second in command of the colombian cartel and stop doing risky bank heists and roberies. She took it. Claude was a loose end.

Edited May 11, 2021 by VM_1701

[Sunglasses]

She's an ambitious girl (top ranking position within the Columbian Cartel after she leaves Claude) and Claude is just small time. He continues to be small time even by the end of the game, since most of his allies either turned on him or died, leaving him to just be a small fry within the Liberty City gang ecosystem

[Lioshenka]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:15 PM, Smash Bandicoot said:

What I was trying to ask is how did he recover?

I remember reading a good theory on these forums that his vocal cord was damaged as the result of the shooting.

[BurntTamale]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:15 PM, Smash Bandicoot said:

What I was trying to ask is how did he recover?

They arrest him, then they take him to get his injuries treated, then take him to prison.

 

Example: 

 

 

[stayprivee]

Well 3 was released before SA so it’s implied in 3 that they’ve probably been dating for a couple of months and finally got bored of him when she got her position in the Colombian Cartel, which is why she only says 12 words and leaves him for dead since they most likely focused more on the crime & cash aspects of the relationship and not actual love besides sex.

 

With SA in mind we now know they’ve been with each other for nine years before she shot him. Nine years, and she leaves him that easily? You might say it’s because she’s crazy and has no feelings but she constantly calls CJ trying to get him jealous. I know it’s clearly because R* gave Catalina an actual personality in SA but it’s still fun to speculate. Maybe CJ was the last straw before she gave up on love? Maybe during those nine years she became full of greed and bent on controlling everything? Doubt we’ll get an answer unless R* does an ama or remakes GTA 3.

 

Short answer: Money & power, most likely she thought Claude was not pulling his weight, or didn’t have such a desire to control the city like Catalina does. 

[CynicalMexican]

GTA 3 was written during a time when R* was still getting its feet wet. The concept behind GTA 3 was bold and highly risky. They weren't the same company they are today. Hence, the story and world building is much less detailed. It's a relic of the time.

 

However, there are plenty of context clues that can help us.

 

First off, let's get into Catalina; in 1992, she's living in the West Coast and is a notorious bank robber. San Andreas is a hot spot for crack, especially Los Santos and San Fierro. Catalina probably made her first contacts with drug cartels here. Despite being related to Cesar, she has no ties with VLA who are anti crack. I can kinda imagine she became a drug runner and expanded her "business".

 

In the Liberty Tree articles, Claude and Catalina are described as notorious bank robbers from the Southwest. From 1992 until probably 1997 or so, they likely robbed banks and such throughout San Andreas and other states such as Arizona, Colorado, and probably got as far as Texas. 

 

Miguel is in LC by 1998. But we done see any ties with Catalina.

 

I assume Claude and Catalina probably moved up Northeast to evade heat. By then, Catalina probably meets Miguel and begins an affair, and she entrenches herself more into drug smuggling. 

 

To keep it simple - Claude was betrayed because Catalina had an affair and saw no use in her future criminal dealings. It's obviously a lot more nuanced than that and we got more clues as the series went along, but that's basically why. 

[LeatherJacketSoldier]

On 4/13/2021 at 4:42 PM, DR:BUSTA said:

unlike Claude who can't complain even if he wanted to

Claude isn't mute, he just hasn't got anything relevant to say because he just stick on following orders (his pain yells can be heard). Much like Luca Brassi from The Godfather.

 

On 4/14/2021 at 4:39 AM, GhettoJesus said:

In the game nothing is said about the duration of their partnership. It could have been a few months.

After the shooting, the game shows the first page of a Liberty Tree edition which has as a title something about "Ten years of love". Probably they didn't keep this very in mind when they made GTA SA, because if they did, GTA SA would have took place in 1991 instead.

[CynicalMexican]

7 minutes ago, LeatherJacketSoldier said:

Claude isn't mute, he just hasn't got anything relevant to say because he just stick on following orders (his pain yells can be heard). Much like Luca Brassi from The Godfather.

 

After the shooting, the game shows the first page of a Liberty Tree edition which has as a title something about "Ten years of love". Probably they didn't keep this very in mind when they made GTA SA, because if they did, GTA SA would have took place in 1991 instead.

But still, 1992 and 2001 are roughly a decade apart. 

 

Catalina & Claude were well known nationally in GTA universe. I'm curious as to what they did in between then. 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, LeatherJacketSoldier said:

After the shooting, the game shows the first page of a Liberty Tree edition which has as a title something about "Ten years of love". Probably they didn't keep this very in mind when they made GTA SA, because if they did, GTA SA would have took place in 1991 instead.

It's "ten years for love", not "ten years of love".

 

18 hours ago, CynicalMexican said:

Catalina & Claude were well known nationally in GTA universe. I'm curious as to what they did in between then. 

Well, according to the wiki stuff, they begin a nine-year journey to Liberty City after the "Farewell, My Love..." mission in SA while committing armed robberies across various south-west US states (including Texas and New Mexico). Apparently, a Liberty Tree article implies they came back to SA for a while before the events of III, rented an apartment in either Los Santos or San Fierro and headed back to LC later on.

 

It's pretty cool how the Liberty Tree article shows that R* already had plans for San Andreas that early, though...

[CynicalMexican]

49 minutes ago, H-G said:

It's "ten years for love", not "ten years of love".

 

Well, according to the wiki stuff, they begin a nine-year journey to Liberty City after the "Farewell, My Love..." mission in SA while committing armed robberies across various south-west US states (including Texas and New Mexico). Apparently, a Liberty Tree article implies they came back to SA for a while before the events of III, rented an apartment in either Los Santos or San Fierro and headed back to LC later on.

 

It's pretty cool how the Liberty Tree article shows that R* already had plans for San Andreas that early, though...

Fun fact - the web domain name for GTA San Andreas was registered before Vice City was released.

 

So, yeah, I think R* had a road map of where the series would go. Perhaps the original SA map was either just San Fierro or Los Santos. 

 

[LeatherJacketSoldier]

1 hour ago, H-G said:

It's "ten years for love", not "ten years of love".

That's why I wrote "something about Ten years of love", I wasn't fully sure because last time I played GTA III was like 2 years ago.

 

1 hour ago, H-G said:

It's pretty cool how the Liberty Tree article shows that R* already had plans for San Andreas that early, though...

Well, you're half right, and you're half wrong. In one GTA of the 2D Era (I think it was GTA because GTA 2 takes place in Anywhere City, if I'm not mistaken), the main cities are Liberty City, Vice City and San Andreas, so the name San Andreas was already mentioned in the series (this is where you're half wrong); but still I don't remember about Los Santos or San Fierro being mentioned in 2D Era games, so you may be right on this one (though the article says Los Something and San Something, hinting they could be merely speaking of real life Los Angeles and San Francisco, given they mentioned real life states like Texas and New Mexico; and the Los Santos and San Fierro idea came to mind when someone at R* remembered that article and decided to tie a loose end with GTA SA events)

[CynicalMexican]

2 hours ago, LeatherJacketSoldier said:

That's why I wrote "something about Ten years of love", I wasn't fully sure because last time I played GTA III was like 2 years ago.

 

Well, you're half right, and you're half wrong. In one GTA of the 2D Era (I think it was GTA because GTA 2 takes place in Anywhere City, if I'm not mistaken), the main cities are Liberty City, Vice City and San Andreas, so the name San Andreas was already mentioned in the series (this is where you're half wrong); but still I don't remember about Los Santos or San Fierro being mentioned in 2D Era games, so you may be right on this one (though the article says Los Something and San Something, hinting they could be merely speaking of real life Los Angeles and San Francisco, given they mentioned real life states like Texas and New Mexico; and the Los Santos and San Fierro idea came to mind when someone at R* remembered that article and decided to tie a loose end with GTA SA events)

I'm leaning towards GTA SA's events having been planned out before, since the domain name was registered in May 2002. IIRC GTA SA might've been in preproduction sometime by then and Jan 2003.

 

Though maybe this implies that Las Venturas wasn't originally part of the map. Perhaps the original concept SA map was just LS/SF.

 

GTA3 was very rudimentary compared to GTA SA. A lot obviously changed. 

[Jeansowaty]

16 hours ago, CynicalMexican said:

I'm leaning towards GTA SA's events having been planned out before, since the domain name was registered in May 2002. IIRC GTA SA might've been in preproduction sometime by then and Jan 2003.

 

Though maybe this implies that Las Venturas wasn't originally part of the map. Perhaps the original concept SA map was just LS/SF.

 

GTA3 was very rudimentary compared to GTA SA. A lot obviously changed. 

I believe that even if it was planned, it went through numerous changes. Like the fact that it had 3 protags originally.

[LeatherJacketSoldier]

56 minutes ago, Jeansowaty said:

the fact that it had 3 protags originally.

Yeah, I also read this before. This explained why CJ has very different personalities throughout the game (not evolving from one to another, just being randomly selected in each mission).

[CynicalMexican]

1 hour ago, LeatherJacketSoldier said:

Yeah, I also read this before. This explained why CJ has very different personalities throughout the game (not evolving from one to another, just being randomly selected in each mission).

This might present an interesting reason/inconsistency: what if Claude was supposed to be part of the Venturas heist? If so, how did Salvatore not know? Did Salvatore originally try to assassinate Claude because of his involvement in Venturas? Was Maria just bullsh*tting Claude? 

[Jeansowaty]

34 minutes ago, CynicalMexican said:

This might present an interesting reason/inconsistency: what if Claude was supposed to be part of the Venturas heist? If so, how did Salvatore not know? Did Salvatore originally try to assassinate Claude because of his involvement in Venturas? Was Maria just bullsh*tting Claude? 

I doubt that's the case. I feel it was originally CJ for Los Santos, Claude for San Fierro, Tommy for Las Venturas.

[Lord Criminal]

35 minutes ago, CynicalMexican said:

This might present an interesting reason/inconsistency: what if Claude was supposed to be part of the Venturas heist? If so, how did Salvatore not know? Did Salvatore originally try to assassinate Claude because of his involvement in Venturas? Was Maria just bullsh*tting Claude? 

I don't think that Maria's claims about what she told Salvatore were false, but nonetheless, I find quite convincing reasons provided in this video:

 

Of course we all know that GTA III came out before San Andreas and Liberty City Stories, but the fact that everything is connected not so faultily nonetheless makes it believable enough in my eyes.

[CynicalMexican]

14 minutes ago, iiCriminnaaL said:

I don't think that Maria's claims about what she told Salvatore were false, but nonetheless, I find quite convincing reasons provided in this video:

 

Of course we all know that GTA III came out before San Andreas and Liberty City Stories, but the fact that everything is connected not so faultily nonetheless makes it believable enough in my eyes.

I love the Professional. Dude is a certified historian of the GTA World. Provides so much insight and explanation especially parts that can easily be glossed over. I generally believe his explanation too; I think the Venturas storyline blends seamlessly with GTA 3.

 

@Jeansowaty I would think that as well. Though it doesn't necessarily prevent Claude from joining the Venturas heist.

 

It's obvious GTA SA was reworked quite a lot from its preproduction days in 2002. Obviously there was the fall out with Liotta, which killed any plans for a Vercetti return. But I'm kinda happy the story just centered on CJ. As crazy as it was, seeing him rise to the top and defeating Smoke is awesome. 

[LeatherJacketSoldier]

12 hours ago, CynicalMexican said:

Obviously there was the fall out with Liotta, which killed any plans for a Vercetti return.

Nah, a good voice actor that can replicate many famous voices can do the trick. Hell, even I could do it with some practice (sometimes I wonder if I should take a voice actor job to fill my free time once I get my engineer title). I'm very well known by many of my friends (and all my family) as an expert imitator (of British/American singers, and movies/series characters after being translated by Latin American voice actors), some examples are: Queen, The Offspring, Good Charlotte (for the music side); and Asterix (animated movies), Inspector Gadget (original series), Jackie Chan (he's got always the same Latin American voice actor, I don't even know how can a person keep the same voice for that long), Rubeus Hagrid (for the video side).

General rule says that if one's capable of doing something rare, then thousands of people around the world are also capable of doing the same thing. Maybe in less than 10 years there'll be a GTA game starring Vercetti again, because someone skilled as I'm talking about will just sign in to R* to revive the legend. But this last thing, I must sadly say, is just wishful-thinking, it's what some would call a long shot.

[Lizard_8]

Probably she didn't want to split their cash after the robbery, and wanted to take everything.

[LeatherJacketSoldier]

12 hours ago, Lizard_8 said:

Probably she didn't want to split their cash after the robbery, and wanted to take everything.

I know you just came to the Forums, welcome pal, but sarcasm won't work this time (it does in many other posts!). In case you didn't play GTA III, in the opening cutscene there are 2 bank robbers (Catalina and Claude) and a driver (Miguel, head of the Columbian Cartel), so killing Claude only to keep all the money to herself (After 9 years of using him? Really?) doesn't make sense, Miguel wouldn't just stand there and watch Catalina get out with all the money, he'd probably kill her if she does that for considering her smaller time than Claude.

[stef_92]

Don't forget that GTA 3 was written and developed way before San Andreas so it's possible for the story to have plot holes. And besides that - they might have had a true relationship for those 9 years but in the end - Catalina's thirst for money and/or power overtook her.

[=OG4life=]

Uhh guys I think all of you are missing the obvious - there is no room in Miguel's getaway Banshee to get anyone in but her so she kills the other robber and shoots Claude too. Simple!

[LeatherJacketSoldier]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:56 AM, =OG4life= said:

Uhh guys I think all of you are missing the obvious - there is no room in Miguel's getaway Banshee to get anyone in but her so she kills the other robber and shoots Claude too. Simple!

First, there were 3: Catalina, Claude, and Miguel. Miguel was in the car, and Catalina and Claude were robbing the bank. There wasn't a third robber. And second, this was already said:

 

On 4/14/2021 at 7:52 PM, Carbonox said:

She realized the getaway vehicle (Banshee) only had 2 doors, and someone had to be sacrificed to make space.

So your post doesn't deserve our KEKW's 

[CynicalMexican]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:46 AM, stef_92 said:

Don't forget that GTA 3 was written and developed way before San Andreas so it's possible for the story to have plot holes. And besides that - they might have had a true relationship for those 9 years but in the end - Catalina's thirst for money and/or power overtook her.

Going back to my previous post about Claude and Venturas - that's kind of what I'm wondering. Ultimately, the final story is pretty consistent (and is summed up well by The Professional's analysis), but perhaps during GTA 3's development, Claude's past was conceived much differently and was then changed. However, it's not noticeable because many story elements changed during development, and very little is elaborated on the events leading up to GTA 3 within that game.