My hopes and fears for a Cops and Crooks DLC

[Jimbatron 10,456]

Introduction

 

Cops ‘n Crooks is possibly the most talked about DLC for GTA V’s online. There was all the hype for Heists after they were expected soon after launch and delayed, but now they are very much taken for granted as part of the game. CnC has been speculated on since the beginning, and reported evidence of it’s development and subsequent shelving has always been popping up on the radar.

 

For me this is not just another DLC wish list item. It’s much more. And if you instantly recognise my avatar without having to do any research, you’ll probably understand why. But if you don’t, it’s likely the case that you never played much Cops ‘n Crooks in GTA IV’s multiplayer.

 

I’ve never had any time for the fanboy wars. I love both GTA IV and V. They both have areas where one is better than the other. GTA V’s online took co-op to the next level with heists, and I’ve sunk countless hours into them.

However, GTA IV’s CnC is simply in a league of it’s own. At its best, if you played it well, knew what you were doing, with a good team, it was an unrivalled experience. It isn’t just miles better than anything else R* have made before or after. In my view it’s better than any computer game ever made. For me, nothing has ever come close, and quite possibly, never will.

 

If you never played it, this might seem like an inflated statement. If you keep with me, I’ll be backing it up below. But regardless of whether you agree with how high a pedestal I place it on, it was well known as a cult classic for IV. It’s not a mode that’s ever really been replicated in another game. And given it’s popularity, it always seemed like a natural addition for V’s Online. You have a classic game mode, that all you have to do is lift and shift to the new map of Los Santos, and you automatically have a winner on your hands.

 

I have my suspicions it is coming back to GTA, and I dare to hope that it will come close to matching the heights reached by the original. But I also fear R* are going to stuff it up big time. Here’s why.

 

What made GTA IV’s Cops ‘n Crooks so great

 

First of all, if you didn’t play the original CnC it’s important to understand why it had such lasting appeal.

 

The first thing is to ignore the obvious red herring. It is nothing to do with role playing as a cop, the theme, or the atmosphere created by uniforms and cars. This, to any of the hardcore fans, was just window dressing to the experience.

 

The thing that made CnC was it’s gameplay. It offered something different, that isn’t present in GTA V’s Online, and none of the plethora of adversary modes that have been added over the years has been able to replicate.

 

So if you haven’t played the game mode before (and given it’s over 10 years old, I expect many people playing GTA V have not), then it’s probably worth explaining how it worked. There’s a long description in the spoiler below, or you can see this video which introduces the basics:

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

There were two types of CnC in GTA IV, All for One, and One for All. One for All was where one player team was the crook team, another player team was the cop team. Everyone had only one life. You either won if everyone on the other team was killed, or if as the crooks you managed to escape in the getaway vehicle – a single unique boat or helicopter on the map. It was good, but it very often turned into a last team standing.

 

Specifically, All for One was the mode that set in with the PC regular crowd. This was the masterpiece that we couldn’t let go of like an addiction.

 

In All for One, one player on the crook team would be randomly assigned as the Boss. If the Boss reached the single unique getaway vehicle marked on the map, the Crooks would (usually) win, if the Boss was taken out, the Cops would win. After the first round, the two teams would swap roles.

 

There were some very important gameplay features that would set the dynamics.

 

Firstly, the weapons and vehicles: the crooks only had a standard pistol, and started on foot. The cops however started in police cars and had smgs (which could be fired on drive by). This gave the cops a huge advantage from the get go. So as a crook, it was basically smartest to flee if you were against evenly matched players.

 

Secondly, you had the radar and the intel it provided. The crooks knew their getaway vehicle location, which would be randomly selected from a range of possibilities at the start of the round, but they could not see the cops on the radar at all. This meant you never knew where the threats were coming from. There was one exception, the Boss could see cop blips on the radar, but only when they got close. This meant communication was key. A Boss with a microphone, and other crooks players who were listening could make the all the difference, as the Boss could alert his team members where threats where coming from so they could move to protect him. The cops on the other hand, could see the crook blips anywhere on the map, and the Boss was marked specially as the target. So clever ambushes were possible, but at least initially, the cops had no idea where the getaway was or where the crooks were heading. They’d normally spawn between the crooks start point and the getaway however. So they would normally have a good chance of intercepting them before they escape.

 

So you had a straightforward race and chase mode. It was great fun. The fact it was all down to whether one player, the boss, escaped, or was taken out gave a tense, all or nothing atmosphere. But it wasn’t this, how it started out, that made it so great. It was how it evolved.

 

Early on, crook players realised going straight to the getaway was risky. Even if the cops didn’t know exactly where you were heading, after playing for a few weeks, you figured out they were probably going to have spawned between you and your target. So what to do? You could trust your driving, and try to break through, or grab some weapons and fight. Neither where guaranteed to work: the cops only needed to get lucky and kill you boss once, and the game was up.

 

We also were aware that there were a couple of locations on the map where Maverick helicopters would spawn. And crucially, the cops wouldn’t always spawn between these and where the crooks started. So if your boss could make it to a helicopter and take off, he’d be safe from those cop cars and their smgs.

 

And this on it’s own could have killed the game mode. A boss who knew how to get to a helicopter would invariably get their first. If the cops didn’t know how to respond, he could then fly straight to the getaway vehicle, get in it, and drive away to win.

At about the same time however, the cops started learning where all the possible getaway locations spawns could be. There were 4 islands you could start on, and 7 possible locations for each. But crucially, where the crooks started narrowed the possibilities further. Some crooks start points had 2 or three possible getaway locations. One had 5. But several had only one possible related getaway spawn. So if the boss was going to make it to a helicopter, the game could be saved if you knew where the getaway location would be and set a trap for him.

 

Once you knew where the getaway was it was easy for an experienced cop to protect it. The crooks couldn’t see you at all on the radar, and the boss could only do so if you were close. So you could grab a sniper rifle, find a secluded spot, and pick of anyone who sat in the getaway vehicle. You couldn’t miss, as they’d be stationary for a crucial second whilst starting the engine. And they’d have no idea where you were.

So a boss couldn’t simply get in the getaway vehicle, as he could be instantly sniped and lose the game. And the boss would be high in the air, well out of range of the cops on the ground. So it seems like an apparent stand off. Not quite.

The crooks on the ground would respawn when killed providing the boss was still alive. So they could have as many shots at trying to secure the getaway vehicle as they needed, and move it to a safe place, where the boss could make the switch to it without fear of being sniped – either far out at open sea for a boat, or on top of a tall building for a helicopter.

 

However, that’s easier said than done for crooks on the ground, when you can’t see the cops on your radar at all, but they can see you. This is where the team work starts to come in. The Boss, in the helicopter can see cops when they are close on the radar, and communicate their positions to the rest of the team after flying by possible camping spots.

 

Obviously for the cops they can’t let the situation continue or the crooks will eventually get lucky and take it. So whilst having enough men on the ground defending the getaway location, they’ll need to pursue the boss in the air to try to take him out.

 

Communication again becomes key. Understanding that another team member has a sniper pointing at the getaway allows you to assess you can go after the boss, whereas in other circumstances, you’ll need to have every last man in defence.

 

The map itself really comes into play where in other modes it has less impact. Dropping a sniper or guy with rpg on a rooftop could have immense tactical value. And playing the game a lot allowed you to realise where all the best spots are. In some locations even attacking via boat could be more effective than on the ground.

 

So it all boiled down to cooperation, team work, and knowledge of the map which wasn’t really part of any other mode. And the tension. It was difficult to escape as the crooks. The getaway would always be hard to secure, and the cops only needed to get lucky once to take out the boss. The satisfaction that you got from pulling it off isn’t something that I’ve seen replicated elsewhere. And it led to some truly epic moments. See for example this endgame where we have secured the getaway helicopter and are trying to switch the Boss into it on a tall building, but the cops have three helicopters in pursuit.

 

 

 

 

 

Why I fear R* will mess up Cops ‘n Crooks if it comes to GTA V’s Online

 

In principle you’d think it would be easy. All they have to do is lift the old game mode and you’ve got a winner. The map would be excellent and I can think of many great places for getaway locations in Los Santos. But unfortunately, I can see it going wrong in so many ways. He’s a list of the things that are likely to ruin the gameplay.

 

Weaponised Vehicles:

In GTA IV there weren’t any. Annihilators were disabled for CnC. Your only way to take out a helicopter from the ground was with an RPG, or a crack shot with a sniper or M4, all of which took real skill. If you have weaponised vehicles with missile lock ons, the Boss will never survive long enough to get the strategic masterpiece that we got in IV. And similarly, if vehicles are too heavily armoured, it will be too hard to kill the boss at all, and it’s game over as soon as he is in one. This coincidentally, was the huge flaw with Extraction. This is the most CnC-like mode introduced to date. But the problem is all you had to do was get the Target (basically the Boss) into an Insurgent and you’d won. The target could then be taken to the extraction zone where the game would end, and the team started with more than one of these in their possession. This is different to the being one getaway that had to be acquired and could be defended. Incidentally, CnC Crew founder Nitzman basically proposed something very similar to extraction well before the game launched. We think it could have replicated the magic of the original:

 

 

However, we played Extraction with every intention of wanting to love it. And the sad truth is the beefed up vehicles remove the magic of the experience.

 

R*s focus is in short action adversary modes, not strategic thinking:

 

This is not to attempt a value judgement that one is universally better. It’s simply true that GTA V’s Online generally offers a wider variety of shorter experiences for PvP. Another example of a mode that has similar features to CnC in Entourage. This is where the Target (effectively the Boss) has to make it to an evac zone on foot, but has heavy armour to help. We actually started doing a similar thing in 2012 in CnC – when we were playing against inexperienced players, strategic knowledge of how to play made it too easy to win, so we created a challenge where we would attempt to make it to the getaway vehicle on foot. The difference is with Entourage its that’s it’s short and only uses a tiny section of the map. So it’s really only about how effective you are at combat for a brief period. There’s no choice of where to go or any strategy behind it. CnC in GTA IV had pickups spanning one third of the map, and you could often tactically utilise the rest of it.

 

GTA V’s lobby set up won’t work as well as IV

 

In GTA IV, after completing a round of CnC, you’d get put back in a lobby, which would lead to a new game where you could be given any of the different 28 maps (getaway locations). Also, the same players would be randomised into new teams. In GTA V, it’s different. You’d have options like CnC I, II, III, IV, V, VI etc with a fixed map. This creates a bit of a problem given how important the location is. In GTA IV, some getaways were much harder to take than others, notably, the infamous boat house at Charge Island. With the V setup, you’ll know what location you’ve got from the start, and whether the defending or attacking team will be at a disadvantage. There’s no way to get a random choice for the next game either, you have to pick what it’s going to be.

 

GTA V’s online is too big now – there isn’t really a community, there’s a population

 

One of the reasons we got so much out of CnC in GTA IV has nothing to do with R* themselves. GTA IV was small enough it had a community you got to know even if they weren’t in your friends list. For sure, thousands of people playing CnC, and you’d maybe meet most of them once and never see them again. However, there was a hardcore group of about 200 players that over about 6 months to a year you really got to know. You could guarantee if you logged on any evening atleast 10 of them would be there. And even if they weren’t all in your friends list, you developed respect for them, played on their team and against them, and shared strategy. This interaction led to us all working out how to play the game best, and ultimately get the best of it. Because initially, it was a great game, but it wasn’t truly epic. It got better after about a year or so as we learned how to unlock the full potential by playing as coordinated teams.

 

I’m not sure this can happen organically any more with GTA V’s Online, regardless of the mode. There are simply too many players. Play with some people once, and if you don’t add them to your friends list, the chances of you being randomly put in a lobby again with them are virtually zero. That’s not to say I haven’t added friends who I work well with in GTA V’s Online. But there isn’t the same sense of community within the game that was built purely within it, without any outside structure.

There are a couple of ways around this one though. Firstly, fan sites and communities outside of the game like this site can help. And secondly, the players who knew how to play the game in GTA IV can potentially pass on the knowledge.

 

Summary

 

There isn’t any reason why Cops ‘n Crooks can’t return with the same gameplay as we saw in Liberty City, just in Los Santos. But I fear it is going to go the way of another famous franchise with an eerily similar acronym: Command and Conquer. For anyone who is unfamiliar, this was perhaps the original Real Time Strategy game that defined the genre. But after a decade, and about 6 main titles (if you include the Red Alert sub franchise) you could argue it was feeling its age. The EA bosses in their wisdom decided the next title needed a complete overhaul of the game play, and we ended up with the monumental turd that was C&C4. It basically destroyed the franchise because it alienated the hardcore fans of the series who liked it for the fundamentals that were foolishly discarded and failed to bring in enough new ones.

 

I’m not saying don’t do different stuff with it. You can have sub modes that are completely new with the same theme, whilst still retaining the classic All for One, and even One for All. What is important is to preserve the gameplay that made it great in the first place. Unfortunately, my expectation is they will not do this. If they’d really realised what a gem they had on their hands, it would have been in GTA Online from the get go. I hope I’m wrong, but I fear I’ll be proven right.

 

 

[God-eater 1,809]

Good points all, and I completely agree that C&C in IV made for some epic moments. Would love to see it again.

 

However... (sigh)

 

Where's the massive buy-in? Where are the overpriced vehicles? Most importantly, how will this sell Shark Cards? These are the questions R* would need answered before they'd put C&C in Online. All you're offering is a sh*tload of fun for players, and I think we can agree that this has not been a priority for R* for several years. If it can't be used to milk us for cash, then they are not interested. Remember, this is the Age of Der Fuhrer Zelnick, who is all about monetisation and is the man who claims to give us "what we didn't know we wanted". I still cringe at that statement. My point is that C&C as was back in the day just doesn't fit with R*'s business model.

 

Then, on a lesser note, there's the playerbase. As you point out, C&C really came into its own when everybody knew what they were doing, and what made it cool was the smaller community.  We're... not going to get that with the V Online playerbase, who are far more the instant-gratification, ganking, cheating, incompetent, sweaty ADHD crowd than anyone who played GTA IV.

 

GTA is a very different animal in 2021 than it was in 2009, and while I'd love some more strategic gameplay, the brutal reality is that R* is cashing jn on that sweet sweet kiddie money, and the kiddies, they don't like the thinky-thinky so much. Put another way, R* aren't going to make us Eggs Benedict when we'll gobble up scrambled eggs just as fast.

 

So, like I said, great post, great idea, but not gonna happen because of the strict No Fun Allowed policy.

 

Go on, R* - prove me wrong. I f*cking dare you.

[ACR 1,215]

Wouldn't want to burst your bubble and i think you can already kinda feel how this update is gonna play out if it's ever gonna get released. I doubt it'll focus on pvp especially where whole map would be open to classic cnc, it's probably gonna play like something similar to adversary modes and that will be small portion of an update. The bigger focus would be something like poster above mentioned that will lure players to the update, so property buy in that would function as business or place to plan heist or run free roam mission terrorbyte style followed with some  expensive vehicle/s that would be requirement to either play new content or efficiently grind it (sparrow from CP hesit update) . This is something that would suit my needs as i'm not pvp player and would want as much new things added as possible, so i can come back to play game as often as there is something new.

Of course, they could go the other way and focus on pvp and implement restrictions on weaponized vehicles to balance the mode and it could be done like it was originally planned with addition of gang territories in the cut online content or something similar to it. But i doubt they would go that way or even code it for now, maybe it could be one of the first updates in E&E version of the online.

[Nutduster 13,398]

Two things.

 

One, if we ever see the rumored "Cops and Crooks" update, I don't think it will have much to do with the game mode. I doubt that many GTA Online players have ever played the IV game mode. For better or worse, they are envisioning something much different--bigger and broader. They want the uniforms, the cars, the siren-loaded undercover vehicles, some new free roam content related to being a cop, and that sort of stuff. Maybe some game modes too, but at this point, GTA Online has (for the majority of players) become more about free roam and heists than about any of the other modes. So I imagine the real content that the majority would want--and therefore, the people Rockstar would be catering to--is not at all what you are after.

 

Two, the thing with that game mode (which does sound fun) is that they could add it anytime. It could be dropped in tomorrow as an Adversary mode, no problem. If it was included in a larger DLC, it would be basically just a little bit of added content in the broader update, and I'm guessing a lot of people wouldn't even pay much attention to it. So, nothing is stopping them from adding this now, or anytime in the past, if they felt like it was going to be exciting enough to the player base. It's possible that there just isn't a lot of demand. It's also probable, as you suggest, that if they did add it, they'd junk it up with a lot of unnecessary changes. Cops on Oppressors, Crooks with homing launchers and armored vans. Who knows, but we know how this game has gone, and going back to basics is not something they have shown much interest in.

 

All of that said: I'd like to see the mode added, if only because it would make you and a minority of others very happy. And I'd also like to see the big update that has been rumored for so long; always felt like they missed a trick by not including some law enforcement (or at least vigilante) content in the game from the jump. The massively PvP aspect of the game would make a lot more sense and be a lot more enjoyable (IMO) if some of us were trying to stop others of us from committing crimes, for reasons other than trolling! I hope it arrives. I have to believe they have at least tossed it around at some point, though I am less convinced that they had an update ready to go and scrapped it. Maybe that happened, but people talk about it like it definitely did.

 

Anyway, we will see what the rest of this year or maybe the next has to offer.

Edited April 3 by Nutduster

[Super Grunt 281 34]

Well they could just not add any weaponized/armored vehicle and only allow the original set of weapons, I always wondered how Cops and Crooks would play on the map.

 

Surely they can add the mode, there are skins for some high ranking member and cannon fodder of a group (there is actually mafia skins but not only) .

 

I never played but the mode look fun, good teamwork is nice (and randoms of GTA Online tend to not be brillant if the heist failure stories is any indication) .

[Jimbatron 10,456]

Thanks for the responses on a topic of personal affection for me

 

18 hours ago, God-eater said:

GTA is a very different animal in 2021 than it was in 2009, and while I'd love some more strategic gameplay, the brutal reality is that R* is cashing jn on that sweet sweet kiddie money, and the kiddies, they don't like the thinky-thinky so much. Put another way, R* aren't going to make us Eggs Benedict when we'll gobble up scrambled eggs just as fast.

 

This is it. We played CnC for years in IV and R* never got a penny? Is it worth them introduce a mode so great, people just play it and never spend a penny on shark cards? Then again, I never have in GTA Online either. I think they should recognise the value of a non-monetised player base of hardcore fans that effective promote the game for them and keep the numbers up. But I agree, I'm not sure they see it that way.

 

17 hours ago, ACR said:

Wouldn't want to burst your bubble and i think you can already kinda feel how this update is gonna play out if it's ever gonna get released.

 

Agreed it's what I hope for but without strong expectation.

 

15 hours ago, Nutduster said:

All of that said: I'd like to see the mode added, if only because it would make you and a minority of others very happy. And I'd also like to see the big update that has been rumored for so long; always felt like they missed a trick by not including some law enforcement (or at least vigilante) content in the game from the jump. The massively PvP aspect of the game would make a lot more sense and be a lot more enjoyable (IMO) if some of us were trying to stop others of us from committing crimes, for reasons other than trolling! I hope it arrives. I have to believe they have at least tossed it around at some point, though I am less convinced that they had an update ready to go and scrapped it. Maybe that happened, but people talk about it like it definitely did.

 

Yes. I'm all for a more expansive CnC, but if you have multiple modes, why not preserve the original? It's the best of both worlds. Hardcore fans of the original are happy, and new players who never tried multiplayer in IV may enjoy it. And you get new stuff too. And it's not a lot off effort. But like many, I'm sceptical R* will go with that philosophy. It doesn't fit their pattern.

 

9 hours ago, Super Grunt 281 said:

I never played but the mode look fun, good teamwork is nice (and randoms of GTA Online tend to not be brillant if the heist failure stories is any indication) .

 

It's funny you should mention that. It's fair to say the random boss selection with the original could cut games somewhat short if a novice got selected as the all important target:

 

 

We often thought the host should have an option whereby you can choose for the Boss to be selected randomly, or players can vote for who on the team they want to be Boss. There was a community angle to it though that would be lost. Back in the day I knew all the regular players and what their strengths were and you could plan accordingly. As I cop team, we'd check the map at the start and see who got drawn as boss. If it was terdek, I'd know he was a fearsome shooter and not fancy my chances of taking him out one on one on the ground, but I might stand a chance of crashing him in the air. Conversely, if the boss were someone like xX Peppah Xx, I'd know he was one of the best pilots in the game, and our best chance might be to take him out before he reached a helicopter.

Edited April 4 by Jimbatron

[fluffball 31]

On 4/3/2021 at 3:43 PM, Jimbatron said:

GTA V’s lobby set up won’t work as well as IV

 

In GTA IV, after completing a round of CnC, you’d get put back in a lobby, which would lead to a new game where you could be given any of the different 28 maps (getaway locations). Also, the same players would be randomised into new teams. In GTA V, it’s different. You’d have options like CnC I, II, III, IV, V, VI etc with a fixed map. This creates a bit of a problem given how important the location is. In GTA IV, some getaways were much harder to take than others, notably, the infamous boat house at Charge Island. With the V setup, you’ll know what location you’ve got from the start, and whether the defending or attacking team will be at a disadvantage. There’s no way to get a random choice for the next game either, you have to pick what it’s going to be.

Actually they wouldn't have to do this since they can have a randomised objective location which they already used in entourage and extraction iirc and they've only continued to use that same feature in the contact missions released in the past years. Buuut knowing r* they would probably take the easy way out and just release multiple maps with determined objectives

Edited April 4 by fluffball

[Jimbatron 10,456]

8 minutes ago, fluffball said:

Actually they wouldn't have to do this since they can have a randomised objective location which they already used in entourage and extraction iirc and they've only continued to use that same feature in the contact missions released in the past years. Buuut knowing r* they would probably take the easy way out and just release multiple maps with determined objectives

 

Yes in theory you could do it this way, the randomisation in Extraction though was much more limited - I think it was two possible exit points, maybe three per map. CnC you had 28 (if you ignore 3 of those were very close to each other). So it's no unworkable in the current format, but like you say, probably not the route R* would choose to go down.

 

This is not me being ungrateful. I love plenty of stuff R* have done, Heists are an excellent PvE experience IMHO. But I think we shouldn't be afraid to say when they don't get it quite right. And that's often been the case with adversary modes. I think they need to look back at what made CnC's IV so great and bring that back.

[Nutduster 13,398]

9 hours ago, Jimbatron said:

Yes. I'm all for a more expansive CnC, but if you have multiple modes, why not preserve the original? It's the best of both worlds. Hardcore fans of the original are happy, and new players who never tried multiplayer in IV may enjoy it. And you get new stuff too. And it's not a lot off effort. But like many, I'm sceptical R* will go with that philosophy. It doesn't fit their pattern.

 

That is the biggest problem right there, and why I am loathe to ever devote too much mental energy to the woulda-coulda-shoulda game. I can envision a hundred things that would make GTA Online so much more fun and diverse, and a lot of them would be little effort to add (by Rockstar standards at least); several of them could straight be ported in from GTA IV. But I know their track record, and after so many years, how they think about the game is clear. It's easier to keep my expectations low and be pleasantly surprised once in a great while.

[Inked. 1,406]

i miss watching your CnC vids on YT =(

[Super Grunt 281 34]

16 hours ago, Jimbatron said:

 

Knowing map+gametype selection in Halo: Reach, the first choice to get the lead will receive more votes (bonus if it's an appreciated combo, the only thing with the power of coming back) .

 

It would be useful for a private lobby but nothing else if the pattern is the same in GTA Online.

 

I watched the video a while ago, I bet every game got it's share of VIPs being Leeroy Jenkins.

[Jimbatron 10,456]

10 hours ago, Inked. said:

i miss watching your CnC vids on YT =(

Thanks man, it's not like I have many followers, so it's nice to hear when people liked my videos. In truth they were mostly uploaded for me, and the other players in the game (aside from a few tutorials). I think we all suspect(ed) that this was our pinnacle of gaming, that even if the mode does return to GTA, it would never be quite as good again. So it was more like a catalogue of memories from the best of gaming times.

 

Things move on in other ways too though. I'm 12 years older than when I started playing CnC in GTA IV, now engaged and moving into a bigger place later in the year. The only reason I really have any time for gaming at the moment is the pandemic, now I'm working from home, gaming takes the hour slot in the morning that I would have spent on the train commuting to the office. So the reality is, if we get a new CnC, I won't have much time to play it! No regrets, it's just how things are now.

 

So why the big post about a mode I might not get to play much? I don't have serious expectations R* will resurrect All for One, but I'd like them to. It would be nice to know that a new generation would get to enjoy what was a unique gaming experience (from my perspective) and carry it on, even if I'm not much of a part of it any more.

Edited April 5 by Jimbatron

[Inked. 1,406]

13 hours ago, Jimbatron said:

Thanks man, it's not like I have many followers, so it's nice to hear when people liked my videos. In truth they were mostly uploaded for me, and the other players in the game (aside from a few tutorials). I think we all suspect(ed) that this was our pinnacle of gaming, that even if the mode does return to GTA, it would never be quite as good again. So it was more like a catalogue of memories from the best of gaming times.

 

Things move on in other ways too though. I'm 12 years older than when I started playing CnC in GTA IV, now engaged and moving into a bigger place later in the year. The only reason I really have any time for gaming at the moment is the pandemic, now I'm working from home, gaming takes the hour slot in the morning that I would have spent on the train commuting to the office. So the reality is, if we get a new CnC, I won't have much time to play it! No regrets, it's just how things are now.

 

So why the big post about a mode I might not get to play much? I don't have serious expectations R* will resurrect All for One, but I'd like them to. It would be nice to know that a new generation would get to enjoy what was a unique gaming experience (from my perspective) and carry it on, even if I'm not much of a part of it any more.

 

At that time, I played mostly on console and while there were certainly some good and regular CnC players, I was always amazed by the level of tactics and difference you PC players had in it. You talk about how the game evolved over time as people developed strategies and really expanded on the game mode. From my perspective on console, those rarely and almost never happened. I think the entire time I probably had a handful of times where the cop team set true ambushes and the crook team was smart enough to go for helis that weren't just the getaway one. Hell, it seemed on console we primarily played One for All rather than All for One.

 

That said, we did have some tactics and the more experienced players obviously seemed to know how not to get clapped up in the first 30 seconds of the round, and how to extend the round a little bit so there was some actual tactics involved in the process.

 

Granted, maybe it was just because I didn't play as part of a community subset and I just randomly queued into CnC when I could, but to me it definitely seemed different in my version than your guys' version. In fact, it was one of your videos that made me buy GTA IV for my PC (despite my specs not being truly good enough for it at the time), among other reasons.

_____

 

Unfortunately for myself, I just resigned to the idea that the CnC we fell in love with is encapsulated in that time. I don't have faith that it would ever be recreated with the same nuances back then. But it's always worth it to try, and if nothing else, it's great to reminisce on those times.