Big Valley in RDR1

[XerostarTG 76]

About a month ago I wrote a post for Red Dead Mysteries talking about what I believed was a scrapped land north of West Elizabeth. It seemed certain, however, I did not look closely at the region enough, it was by far (in my belief) true/apparent that this region was indeed Big Valley (or at least what we have come to call Big Valley). I am of course referring to the valley of Big Valley (they really needed to split that region up in RDR2). A creek runs through it, mountains [that look exactly like the ones from RDR2; The Grizzlies] tower to the north, and a small portion of forest lies on its eastern side and heads up the mountains' crag/foothill. I have captured photos and even videos (though those will [hopefully] come later; having One Drive issues).

 

 

 

Alternative Image:

 

 

(These were probably not the best images, for me it was really hard to get a perfect one, but I think you might agree with me on the concept/point I am trying to make)

 

You can see that these mountains are remarkably similar. With the forest clearing up westward (though not entirely in RDR2), and the crag/foothill directly where my camera is pointing (in RDR2 this is the trail leading to Ewing Basin and Mnt. Hagen). In my first image you may wonder where I am standing on, it is (as I believe) the equivalent of Mnt. Shann. This Mnt. Shann equivalent is actually visible from the playable map, you just do not suspect it being a mountain from the southside due to dense forestry, but the northside of the mountain (in the valley) obviously paints a different picture.

 

Additionally there is a small strand of western mountains/cliffs:

 

 

 

You may feel that this is not concrete; however, I would suggest that you, yourself, get out of the map [of RDR1] and you will just notice how familiar/similar it is. Yet again this is not everything that I have, I am working on trying to get a video[s] up, but I am running into complications. Nevertheless, here is my map of the region (with the creek[s], other geographical features, and even roads).

 

Basic:

 

 

Geo/Mnt. Filled:

 

 

Geo/Mnt. Filled + Unsure Areas:

 

 

Geo/Mnt. Filled + Unsure Areas and Road Mapped:

 

 

You might be wondering why I put and then removed what becomes Hawk Eye Creek (by its position), but that is just because of a creative decision, it very well could have been a road. Speaking of Hawk Eye Creek you might wonder why I put it northward, that is also because of a creative decision, I saw small indentations (like how I did with the Little Creek River Equivalent) that led to the area where there was no collision so I could not check, it was just a decision/assumption. You may also be wondering, "Why does this guy think that this stuff is here?"; That is because if you go eastward enough you will begin to see considerable indentations, that would not be small dip downs for hills, or roads; they are far too considerable and they usually follow a line/path. Furthermore if you go west ward enough you will also see "paths" where the ground texture is lighter hinting that there could have been a stream of water. Also note that I put these mountains with a "realistic" format. So this is how they would really look in game (I have not made giant changes; only removed those that I think R* put in place to hid the area from us).

 

 

Also: 1) The western side of the Big Valley Equivalent also has some gnarly foothills, similar to the "gnarly" foothills on the western side of Big Valley in RDR2. 2) You can usually actuall see this stuff in the geographical information on RDR1's map, it actually feels insulting; this stuff has been staring me in the face for a decade and I didn't even know it; ha!  3) You might be wondering why I named Diablo's Head: Diablo's Head and that is because on the map it looks like a devils head to me, and I think it eventually became Diablo Ridge. 4) You might be wondering what I think these areas look like since on the map they do look bizzare. Well I think that the Mnt. Hagen Equivalent was going to be this mountain plateau thing that would allow scenic sights and be a good area for grizzly hunting.

 

Other Images:

 

(I do not have Darren Bader's Big Valley Concept Art Unfortunately)

 

 

 

Closest I could get these.

[VideoTech_ 1,673]

Awesome job!

[rml_gta 1,671]

That´s quite interesting man, maybe you are right!! They ported the original map to RDR2 as it´s known so it could be a posibility they could have used part of the out of bounds terrain of the first game to make it a playable area in the 2nd game with all the new terrain expansion. Great investigation man!! I always wondered why nobody made a extensive investigation of the RDR1 out of bounds area to try to fit them with the playable RDR2 areas... congrats dude!!!

[Mysterious hero 351]

IIRC, in the first game, a Blackwater NPC will mention The Grizzlies.

I also remember a newspaper that mentioned an event where Dutch and his Native American gang robbed a homestead north of Blackwater.

 

Edit: Found the NPC. His name is Ralph Dutton: https://reddead.fandom.com/wiki/Ralph_Dutton

Edited January 24 by Mysterious hero

[XerostarTG 76]

4 hours ago, Mysterious hero said:

IIRC, in the first game, a Blackwater NPC will mention The Grizzlies.

I also remember a newspaper that mentioned an event where Dutch and his Native American gang robbed a homestead north of Blackwater.

 

Edit: Found the NPC. His name is Ralph Dutton: https://reddead.fandom.com/wiki/Ralph_Dutton

 

Yes, yes! I knew I could not have been the only one to have heard that line before! So glad that you found the NPC, I spent days (about a month ago) trying to get that/a NPC to say the line (hope to get it on video sometime just as a "resource"). Definitely seems like The Grizzlies were cut. Right now I am putting together my videos [and some other resources/tips] (one a tutorial on how to get out there and another that is a fly over of the valley), one thing you will notice in the fly over is that The Grizzlies go on forever, but if you actually try to see what's out there the game will unload it (going to try to find a way around that). Also I was looking at the way that the river in the valley is designed and it actually looks a bit like a skinnier version of the Upper Montana, makes me wonder. The farm north of Blackwater, was one thing that always made me want to go outside of the map as a kid, just to see if it was there/where it would be.

 

Edit: Just got Ralph to say that line.

Edited January 25 by XerostarTG

[XerostarTG 76]

Here is the link to the [playlist] videos (I am working on the fly over one still):

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5Iuo1-hTFn9xj-H2gzolnhv2JcRFTHtB

 

Small Tips:

 

• Always, always, always make sure the invincibility cheat is activated 
• If you have a dedicated save I would suggest making a back up of it (so you do not lose the ability to lose achievements and what not)
• Do not go too far north in the area between Hennigan's Stead and Tall Trees (there are collision holes and eventually there will be no collision)
• Do not go too close to the cliffs of the north side of the Upper Montana, you may be dragged back in.
• You cannot reach the area west of Mexico using this glitch (the game will stop you)
• Do not worry about falling off/into the area of no collision, the game should spawn you back where you were before hand.

 

 

 

If you do not have/know the invincibility cheat it is: HE GIVES STRENGTH TO THE WEAK.

[pariah87 1,482]

This is interesting stuff! I subbed and will be using your tips later on. I feel like RDR2's map is my backyard lmao... some of these pics really give you the feeling that they just started work on rdr2 with rdr1 as the base. 

[cp1dell 3,051]

On 1/24/2021 at 5:53 PM, Mysterious hero said:

IIRC, in the first game, a Blackwater NPC will mention The Grizzlies.

I also remember a newspaper that mentioned an event where Dutch and his Native American gang robbed a homestead north of Blackwater.

 

Edit: Found the NPC. His name is Ralph Dutton: https://reddead.fandom.com/wiki/Ralph_Dutton

 

On 1/24/2021 at 7:04 PM, XerostarTG said:

 

Yes, yes! I knew I could not have been the only one to have heard that line before! So glad that you found the NPC, I spent days (about a month ago) trying to get that/a NPC to say the line (hope to get it on video sometime just as a "resource"). Definitely seems like The Grizzlies were cut. Right now I am putting together my videos [and some other resources/tips] (one a tutorial on how to get out there and another that is a fly over of the valley), one thing you will notice in the fly over is that The Grizzlies go on forever, but if you actually try to see what's out there the game will unload it (going to try to find a way around that). Also I was looking at the way that the river in the valley is designed and it actually looks a bit like a skinnier version of the Upper Montana, makes me wonder. The farm north of Blackwater, was one thing that always made me want to go outside of the map as a kid, just to see if it was there/where it would be.

 

Edit: Just got Ralph to say that line.

This is some legitimately interesting sh*t. Wow

 

Along with the OP too of course.

Edited January 30 by cp1dell