Do you consider Saints Row 1 and 2 "GTA Clones"?

[KingAJ032304]

I would do a poll, but GTAForums haven't let me in over a year (ffs...) Anyways I'm just curious on you guys opinions on this. I obviously disagree and would fight for those two from hell and back.

[Mister Pink]

No point in a poll, really. What are going to do with the results? Better off with discussion. 

 

The idea of an open-world city-based crime game is an idea that would have happened (was happening) regardless of whether Rockstar existed. Rockstar paved the way, certainly. And GTA influence is strong. I think if it wasn't Rockstar, another developer would have done something similar. Well, there were other developers doing similar things. I also say this because I remember playing Road Rash as a kid and just wishing the world was more 3D and explorable and that I wished I could just free-roam. You could go off the side of the road a bit but not far. But the intrigue and want to explore was there. If I can think that as a kid, I'm sure many other people had the same idea.

 

I never liked the "GTA-clone" term. It's just a lazy way to describe a type of game. And to those unfamiliar with Saints Row, it's easier for them to visualise a "GTA-clone" when you explain Saints Row. But to me it has a negative connotation attached. GTA may have accelerated the development of spawned more games like it, but I think similar games would have started to be developed anyway. Another reason I don't like the term GTA-clone is because clone implies a copy of something great (GTA). If it's not as great GTA, is it really a clone? 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Mister Pink

[KingAJ032304]

8 minutes ago, Mister Pink said:

No point in a poll, really. What are going to do with the results? Better off with discussion. 

 

The idea of an open-world city-based crime game is an idea that would have happened (was happening) regardless of whether Rockstar existed. Rockstar paved the way, certainly. And GTA influence is strong. I think if it wasn't Rockstar, another developer would have done something similar. Well, there were other developers doing similar things. I also say this because I remember playing Road Rash as a kid and just wishing the world was more 3D and explorable and that I wished I could just free-roam. You could go off the side of the road a bit but not far. But the intrigue and want to explore was there. If I can think that as a kid, I'm sure many other people had the same idea.

 

I never liked the "GTA-clone" term. It's just a lazy way to describe a type of game. And to those unfamiliar with Saints Row, it's easier for them to visualise a "GTA-clone" when you explain Saints Row. But to me it has a negative connotation attached. GTA may have accelerated the development of spawned more games like it, but I think similar games would have started to be developed anyway. Another reason I don't like the term GTA-clone is because clone implies a copy of something great (GTA). If it's not as great GTA, is it really a clone? 

oh did you know that Driver 2 scared the hell out of Rockstar and really accelerated them to push GTA III out. There's an interview out there about this, I wish I knew where it was. After GTA III came out, Driver actually backed down (also it's own interview) but still took cues from it and VC.

[Mister Pink]

11 minutes ago, KingAJ032304 said:

oh did you know that Driver 2 scared the hell out of Rockstar and really accelerated them to push GTA III out. There's an interview out there about this, I wish I knew where it was. After GTA III came out, Driver actually backed down (also it's own interview) but still took cues from it and VC.

I did not. However, I know games a that time really did fight for spaces that now two or more games could fill. I remember watching a video posted year about Driv3r being rushed out as they wanted to release it before the next GTA for fear of missing out on sales to GTA. I find that interesting because I certainly think you could have 2, even 3 relatively successful GTA-style games out and any given moment and if they're good, people will buy them. I think they can all co-exist and flourish well, monetarily. 

 

I've no doubt the devs of Driver and Rockstar borrowed from each other. The driving in Driver: PL as well as the police system definitely inspired GTA IV

[SinZer0s]

Not at all, are all RPGs clones of each other then? are all fantasy RPGs a copy of Final Fantasy? f*ck no.

 

This statement is what killed the franchise for a lot of veterans, I'm glad that Volition gained more recognition and stuff after turning Saints Row into the wacky world it became after The Third but I'm still mad at how much potential they wasted leaving their roots behind. IMO their biggest strength was the gang dynamic but hurr durr GTA clone.

 

I wish we had a cool gangbanging game nowadays with an open world and fun side activities to participate in.

[Slim Darcy YouTube]

I Apologies in advance this is a little bit long.  I have seen many arguments about this topic but the best one I have seen is why it it only GTA to be called out for having clones? Isn't call of duty or battle field or any first person shooter really just cloning each others mechanics or even some plots without fans getting upset about it?

 

It is my belief there are many game developers either in bed with each other or they openly sell their softwear formular to one another so they can make similar games without the lawsuits of copy right. I think if the developers are not calling each other out then neither should the fans.

 

Saints Row 2 is clear to of gotten a lot of inspiration and some mechanics from the GTA series or Especially San Andreas but they built on too it and still made something awesome.

 

I think we need to abandon these clone arguments. They did the Saints Row franchise no favours when Volition saw these arguments they made Saints row 3 as different to Gta as they saw possible and while it is considered a fun game with lots of crude humour it doesn't compare to what Saints row 2 sold and 4 is just mess of crappy plot in my opinion and Agents of Mayhem is not even talked about anymore. 

 

I really hope the next saints row game with Volition being back with THQ it should be something as good if not better then SR2 because their reputation of being relevent to buyers is on the line.

[KingAJ032304]

On 1/16/2021 at 2:33 AM, SinZer0s said:

Not at all, are all RPGs clones of each other then? are all fantasy RPGs a copy of Final Fantasy? f*ck no.

 

This statement is what killed the franchise for a lot of veterans, I'm glad that Volition gained more recognition and stuff after turning Saints Row into the wacky world it became after The Third but I'm still mad at how much potential they wasted leaving their roots behind. IMO their biggest strength was the gang dynamic but hurr durr GTA clone.

 

I wish we had a cool gangbanging game nowadays with an open world and fun side activities to participate in.

weirdly enough I actually thought there biggest strength (if we're strictly talking story and world) is how the lore selectively chooses when to take inspiration in real life, when to mash two mostly similar themes together that have their own differences to create something unique, and when to make up their own rules to create their own world. Biggest being how street gangs are sort of like organized factions that PERMANATELY destroy other gangs rather than being strictly one of the other and the world is Stilwater is a nice interesting mix of Detroit and Chicago that runs on its own rules that somehow ends up making sense. GTA never had anything like that.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 3:27 AM, Slim Darcy YouTube said:

I Apologies in advance this is a little bit long.  I have seen many arguments about this topic but the best one I have seen is why it it only GTA to be called out for having clones? Isn't call of duty or battle field or any first person shooter really just cloning each others mechanics or even some plots without fans getting upset about it?

 

It is my belief there are many game developers either in bed with each other or they openly sell their softwear formular to one another so they can make similar games without the lawsuits of copy right. I think if the developers are not calling each other out then neither should the fans.

 

Saints Row 2 is clear to of gotten a lot of inspiration and some mechanics from the GTA series or Especially San Andreas but they built on too it and still made something awesome.

 

I think we need to abandon these clone arguments. They did the Saints Row franchise no favours when Volition saw these arguments they made Saints row 3 as different to Gta as they saw possible and while it is considered a fun game with lots of crude humour it doesn't compare to what Saints row 2 sold and 4 is just mess of crappy plot in my opinion and Agents of Mayhem is not even talked about anymore. 

 

I really hope the next saints row game with Volition being back with THQ it should be something as good if not better then SR2 because their reputation of being relevent to buyers is on the line.

Unless something horribly goes wrong with development, SR5 is easily going to be the best SR, regardless it's returning to it's roots.

 

"At least SR5 is getting a trailer this fall. It's said to be easily the best SR game by IdolNinja (A SR2 fan/developer who's super proud of seeing it coming together) and MrSaintsGodzillafan (also a SR2 fan who said it will be awesome and already looks better than SR2) along with Volition saying they see as much criticism and input all over the internet so fingers crossed. " 

A quote from me.

[Slim Darcy YouTube]

19 minutes ago, KingAJ032304 said:

Unless something horribly goes wrong with development, SR5 is easily going to be the best SR, regardless it's returning to it's roots.

 

"At least SR5 is getting a trailer this fall. It's said to be easily the best SR game by IdolNinja (A SR2 fan/developer who's super proud of seeing it coming together) and MrSaintsGodzillafan (also a SR2 fan who said it will be awesome and already looks better than SR2) along with Volition saying they see as much criticism and input all over the internet so fingers crossed. " 

A quote from me.

That is good news. Sweey

[Zello]

 

I still wish it was more grounded and streets based like the first 2 games. The game was in development for a while before San Andreas came out and The saints were actually supposed to be green but because of San Andreas they changed their color to purple.

http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/saints-row/717127p1.html

 

People like to claim that GTAs roots are streets and gangbanging from San Andreas but that actually isn't true just look at GTA 1 where you were a hired gun that took jobs from payphones for various different people. It's actually Saints Row that has the gangbang street roots that they have now abandoned. GTA also never really committed to it either CJ was a gangbanger for a bit of the story then goes on a journey across the state, and Franklin just leaves the gangbanging life behind him. While not as realistic to gangs some of the stuff is kinda cheesy you can easily tell it was written by some dude that came from the Suburbs even in SR1 and 2 as far as video games go Saints Row did a good job capturing the street/gang life compared to R*.

 

There are a lot of things that Saints Row introduced that GTA eventually ended up adopting. Like using a GPS instead of setting waypoints. They also introduced MP3 players something that GTA still hasn't done to this day.

 

and Drive Thrus

 

 

If Rockstar wants to ignore interiors fine but at least let me use a drive thru instead of teasing us with those non enterable restaurants.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Zello

[KingAJ032304]

 

On 1/15/2021 at 11:14 PM, Zello said:

 

I still wish it was more grounded and streets based like the first 2 games. The game was in development for a while before San Andreas came out and The saints were actually supposed to be green but because of San Andreas they changed their color to purple.

http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/saints-row/717127p1.html

 

People like to claim that GTAs roots are streets and gangbanging from San Andreas but that actually isn't true just look at GTA 1 where you were a hired gun that took jobs from payphones for various different people. It's actually Saints Row that has the gangbang street roots that they have now abandoned.

 

There are a lot of things that Saints Row introduced that GTA eventually ended up adopting. Like using a GPS instead of setting waypoints. They also introduced MP3 players something that GTA still hasn't done to this day.

 

and Drive Thrus

 

 

If Rockstar wants to ignore interiors fine but at least let me use a drive thru instead of teasing us with those non enterable restaurants.

The entire forum thinks I'm crazy but I really do feel that SR2 and especially SR1 both have better stories than any single game in the 3d universe (except maybe San Andreas?) I'm very tempted to go in depth in another topic how it has more attention to detail and how things work in its story and world than GTA VC (which many people consider to have the best story in the 3D universe).

 

Edit: Is that a cop with an AK at 1:41 lol?

Edited January 19, 2021 by KingAJ032304

[Jason]

Not clones, no. Definitely massively inspired by and in later games they deliberately tried to take advantage of a portion of the GTA fanbases criticisms over the series becoming too serious/realistic, which for many resulted in the Series Row games effectively jumping the shark.

[Americana]

No, I don't think so. I really don't like the term "Grand Theft Auto clones". Some games took some ideas from Grand Theft Auto games, but that's perfectly fine. 

[Zello]

On 1/15/2021 at 11:46 PM, KingAJ032304 said:

 

The entire forum thinks I'm crazy but I really do feel that SR1 and 2 have better stories than any single game in the 3d universe (except maybe San Andreas?) I'm very tempted to go in depth in another topic how it has more attention to detail and how things work in its story and world than GTA VC (which many people consider to have the best story in the 3D universe).

I think Saints Row 1 just did a good job of building up it's world and lore better. 

 

We actually know who the mayor is, the police chief and so on. The radio actually mentions events that happen in the story I mean GTA does this now but the older GTAs at the time didn't. The stores close at certain times and they also advertise sales on the radio too that are actually real. Stefan's commercials kinda reminded me of Morrie's wigs from Goodfellas and then that mission where you actually get to scare him was funny. Saints Row did a good job of portraying Stilwater as an actual city with a crime problem. Them making Alderman Hughes an antagonist that had big plans of trying to fix those problems was good. The mayoral race was on the radios and stuff and it was one of those things that you'd probably miss if you blinked if you didn't pay attention but how they used it and tied it into the epilogue was nice.

 

In a small way it kinda reminded me of The wire a bit. But only a bit as the writing was not that good or deep. Man all this talk makes me want a remake of Saints Row 1 not a remaster but a remake similar to Mafia definitive edition.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Zello

[Arrows to Athens]

I consider GTA Online a Saints Row clone.

[Zello]

Another thing I liked about Saints Row were the cutscenes unlike GTA, Saints Row showed certain scenes from other characters perspectives and how the antagonists reacted to your actions.

 

 

[LL Cool L]

yes

 

its the best of them tho

 

deffo wanted to be gta's alternative and rival, copied loads of things off gta but also did quite a few things better...gta is ultimately the better franchise but I thoroughly enjoy both

 

played 2 1st, then 1, then 3 and 4

 

I definitely prefer the gta universe to the saints row universe, even before 3 and 4 (which I still like) but took the game in a different direction

[KingAJ032304]

On 1/21/2021 at 4:12 AM, Zello said:

Another thing I liked about Saints Row were the cutscenes unlike GTA, Saints Row showed certain scenes from other characters perspectives and how the antagonists reacted to your actions.

 

 

I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Saints Row felt like a full on movie in comparison because of this.

 

Edit: Also that scene at 0:40 never fails to piss me of lmao keep shooting him!

Edited January 22, 2021 by KingAJ032304

[GrudgefromSanAndreas]

gta clones dont exist, however i do think all sr games except gooh were rivals to gta. you can tell it by how they mock gta e.g. in a sr2 trailer "would you rather go bowling or *insert crazy activity*" and sriv has "gat v" dlc

[Algonquin Assassin]

No.

 

The first couple of Saints Row games were good alternatives to GTA. Back in 2006 before the GTA series made the next gen jump at the time Saints Row helped fill the void. Though admittedly without the soul and charm and Saints Row 2 was a good alternative to GTA IV for those that weren't comfortable with GTA IV's change of direction.

 

I do have to wonder if the Saints Row series will ever go back to that style where it's literally a head to head competitor with the GTA series. The series jumped the shark when it started getting all sci fi and sh*t. I would love a more crime orientated Saints Row game again.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Algonquin Assassin

[BurntTamale]

I think that Saints Row took a bit of inspiration from the gta games but did things their way to differentiate gta and Saints Row so people wouldn't see it as a gta clone. As someone who has played sr1 and 2 they don't feel like clones to me but to someone who has just been introduced to sr1 and 2 it might sound like a gta clone.

[sabitsuki]

On 21/01/2021 at 3:21 PM, Arrows to Athens said:

I consider GTA Online a Saints Row clone.

This but unironically

[pingli]

I think of them more as some sort of weak competition than pure clones since they did a lot of original stuff GTA didn't do/didn't had a need to do. I haven't played SR1 since it was only on Xbox but I've played SR2 and I enjoyed it quite a bit even tho quite a bit of stuff was kinda crappy, from shooting, graphic design, etc. But overall it was a fun game, but not really a proper competition to GTA IV. Also remember that time SR2 tried to make fun of GTA IV with that one trailer? lol.

 

I know this part is kinda irrelevant to the topic but,

I hope to see SR coming back to its original roots and stop being a wacky mr president in space nut job the game, SR3 was fun but it was losing it's touch and I don't wanna touch SR4 at all. 

 

[KingAJ032304]

On 1/25/2021 at 4:18 PM, GrudgefromSanAndreas said:

gta clones dont exist, 

Though I most certainly agree, I do think a few video game series got a bit worse/lose identity when it try to be like GTA mor (Most noticeably Driver and Mafia)

[Carbonox]

I find them to be the best spiritual sequels to San Andreas out there.

 

OK, SR1 maybe took itself a bit too seriously, but SR2 nailed it imo. It had the gang theme, planes, novelty vehicles and weapons (just no sex toys - yet), even those vehicle side missions that were like upgraded forms of what GTA had... it was alright. Only problem, you're rocking the colors SA taught you to hate.

 

I may be biased though, because I feel I'm still just as much in love with SR2 as in 2008.

[KingAJ032304]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:15 PM, Carbonox said:

OK, SR1 maybe took itself a bit too seriously

Funny enough that was actually intentional as a direct contrast to SA said in a developer diary to be more focused than SA was and to make the realistic stuff gangs do actually as over the top as possible without getting into plane and attack helicopter territory and staying crime related (so no emergency missions and stuff). Most of the silliness comes in dialogue, character animations (similar to Bully), ragdolls, 1980 like pain screams, npc mascots, the brand names/wacky fonts, wearing only your underwear, the ott explosions and easter eggs, etc.

Edited January 29, 2021 by KingAJ032304

[MrMemer]

I think they are kind a rip offs but at the same time I don’t think so

[KingAJ032304]

3 hours ago, MrMemer said:

I think they are kind a rip offs but at the same time I don’t think so

There it is! Our first. That counts.

[sabitsuki]

i think the term is the stupidest thing ever and disparages whatever game the label is placed on.

 

i still play both games to this day and i'm still enjoying them. the soundtrack in saints row 1 is on par with gta iv as far as variety goes.

Edited January 31, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[Yinepi]

The concept of a GTA clone is stupid. While GTA defined the genre, saying that any game in the genre with crime and cars is a clone of GTA makes no sense to me... It's like saying any modern day platformer is a Mario clone. Or any RPG is a D&D clone.

[Badman_]

I don't know if "clone" is the right word, but I do think that SR1 and SR2 were trying to replicate GTA somehow and I don't see it as a bad thing at all. It's a natural cycle for when something as successful as GTA comes up. Just look at how many Dark Souls "clones" we had in the last few years (and some of them are great games by the way).

 

SR3 and SR4 are an entire different thing though. They were clearly trying to dissassociate from the "clone" image creating something more unique.

Edited February 15, 2021 by The Wolf Man