GTA IV General Chat

[The-Ghost]

9 hours ago, 44Orca said:

That's a random npc? (like random encounter?)or a character from the story?

With these old GTAs we still discover stuff we didn't know were there, like that example how you can turn off the car, or park it with tires turned, or stuff from San Andreas that I only learned about a year ago take a picture of yourself with other npcs etc.

Yeah I walked outside the club and went afk for a minute only to hear him ask for money, it was surprising.

[Silver]

On 11/16/2024 at 10:41 PM, AngryMeatPie said:

It was probably discussed here a few times already, but still. Guys, am I the only one who thinks that Rockstar kinda messed up the ending of IV by making Pegorino a possible final antagonist? I just came back to thinking the plot of the game over and realized that he just doesn't fit into the story as the final enemy Niko has to deal with. I think Bulgarin would've been a more logical choice as... well, he's Niko's nemesis, isn't he?
On the one hand, I can understand why the devs made Pegorino one of the two possible final antagonists: he's the last man Niko works with before deciding to quit, so he kills Kate to get revenge on Niko for destroying his chance to rise in the criminal underworld. He's basically Niko's last step in quitting the life of crime, the last loose end. 

On the other hand, now that I think of it, it feels like Pegorino's story should have ended shortly after the "Pest Control" mission where one of his important associates (Ray) gets killed on his orders. I think it would've been more logical if the cops finally arrested / killed him at that point and ended his partnership with Niko since his organization is already very weak and as he constantly keeps remarking, the police are onto him.

In that case the only loose ends left would be Bulgarin and Dimitri who were after Niko from the beginning of the game. Killing them both in the end seems more logical.

As to choosing the ending, well... Probably we might've been able to choose either to broker kind of a peace agreement with the Russian Mafia or to chase down and kill first Dimitri and then Bulgarin. I'm not actually sure there would've been a choice at all. 

Sure, killing both Bulgarin and Dimitri in the original IV would've destroyed TBOGT's storyline, but I guess the devs could've shifted towards Luis and Tony dealing with Roco and the mobsters, not Bulgarin and Russian Mafia. I honestly like the way Ray is presented in TBOGT but it sometimes feels... off, especially when it gets too comical. It destroys the image of a powerful frightening figure from IV that had been haunting Niko for a while. And it's almost the same as with Pegorino: this character simply feels out of place as the antagonist of TBOGT. I have a strong feeling that Bulgarin's story should've ended for good together with Dimitri's back in the original IV, and it should've been Niko, not Luis, to finish his life's last chapter. It looks like a greater closure for Niko than killing Pegorino and avenging Kate. 

I sure do like the plot of all three games, some moments less, some moments more. But this one just irks me when I bring it up in mind. What do you guys think of it? 

I don't mind Pegorino being Niko's final antagonist in the Revenge ending too much but I do think Dimitri deserved to be Niko's last kill in that ending. Pegorino isn't really final antagonist material in my opinion, especially when most of Niko's troubles in the story stem from Dimitri. Putting a bullet in Pegorino's head isn't as satisfying as having Dimitri at our mercy, but in a way that's the whole point, we don't really get the sense of victory that we could've had if it were Dimitri in this situation.

 

To me Dimitri is Niko's nemesis, Bulgarin is merely a nuisance from his past who happens to know Dimitri and tries to haunt Niko once again. But it's Dimitri who betrays Niko, it's Dimitri who has Roman's apartment and business burned down, and even has Roman kidnapped. You could argue Bulgarin is the one who tells Dimitri about Niko and they both agree to have him eliminated but I never saw Bulgarin as Niko's true antagonist in this story. Of course that's mostly because he disappears for most of it until he pops up one last time during the exchange on Charge Island and disappears once again, meanwhile Dimitri is the one who f*cks with Niko the most and whose name keeps popping up every once in a while until the end so I think it's only natural to view him as the threat and not Bulgarin.

Now you could have Bulgarin being Niko's final antagonist but I think it would've been too convenient, especially if the story remains the same and Bulgarin just happens to flee with Dimitri in that chopper, or boat if it's an alternate take on the Revenge ending. Niko killing both Bulgarin and Dimitri in both endings could have some meaning symbolically, i.e., Niko getting rid of the ghost of his past and present in one fell swoop, but I don't know if it would've worked as much. I feel it would've been too perfect. I think it's more interesting for Niko to get rid of his current nemesis while Bulgarin remains a loose end that a different protagonist just happens to deal with, but that's just me.

 

For that reason, I'm fine with Bulgarin being at the very least one antagonist in TBoGT, because to me the main antagonists in Luis and Tony's story were the Ancelottis. And I think the game lost the plot a bit once Bulgarin turned against Luis. From the beginning to the end the Ancelottis were the sword hanging over their heads through the likes of Rocco and Vince but still personified by the old man Ancelotti. Bulgarin then comes into the picture and makes a deal with the old man and both agree to have Tony marked for death (I doubt Bulgarin would've let Luis live honestly but hey that's what we're told both parties agreed upon so whatever). Luis then proceeds to turn the tables by killing Vince and Bulgarin but nothing ever ensues from the Ancelotti's side after that, the story simply ends and we never hear from them again. In fact, Rocco goes into hiding which I understand but it's weird that the old man Ancelotti whose organization is still intact would let that whole mess slide and get punked like that by Luis and Tony. Although I guess you could argue he recognized Luis' protagonist status and therefore the unstoppable killing machine that he is and decided to call it quits lol.

Anyway, I think this is a case of the DLC being too short and/or rushed for its own good. A longer story would've certainly helped polishing these kinds of oversights in my opinion.

[AngryMeatPie]

On 11/18/2024 at 8:41 PM, Silver said:

Putting a bullet in Pegorino's head isn't as satisfying as having Dimitri at our mercy, but in a way that's the whole point, we don't really get the sense of victory that we could've had if it were Dimitri in this situation.

You nailed it. The Revenge ending doesn't bring a sense of victory, as it seems to me. I picked the Deal ending a few times because it somehow feels as a more real victory than killing Pegorino.

Now that I think of it, the main reason why Pegorino's death doesn't seem as satifsfying might be because we simply don't get attached to Kate's character throughout the story much. I wish she'd appeared earlier in the plot and I also wish the game showed more communication between her and Niko outside of dates which are not obligatory, so it's easy to miss much of their dialogue. It would've helped disclose her character better and showed the developing relationship between her and the protagonist. Without that, yeah, her death feels sad but personally I didn't feel deeply hurt or struck. It is hard to feel bad about the death of a character who doesn't appear in the story much, albeit being Niko's love interest. It feels like Rockstar might have been planning to show more of their time together in story missions, but it got cut...

Also, I think, they might have made this mission a bit harder, like, Pegorino gathering Niko's old enemies (Albanians, remnants of the Russian mob, his crew, idk who else), and them going after him together, but it looks a bit overkill and not too realistic for him to do that. Another variant could be Peg putting some kind of bounty on Niko's head so every gangster in Alderney comes after him, and he has no choice but to track and kill Jimmy. 

On 11/18/2024 at 8:41 PM, Silver said:

Niko killing both Bulgarin and Dimitri in both endings could have some meaning symbolically, i.e., Niko getting rid of the ghost of his past and present in one fell swoop, but I don't know if it would've worked as much. I feel it would've been too perfect.

After posting my original comment I thought it all over and came to the same conclusion tbh. It would've just been too convenient. It might have worked if IV didn't have its DLCs, and probably if IV was a movie, because such a move looks quite typical for action movies, especially those that don't have any followings. 

And yeah, Bulgarin being the "loose end" which gets tied up in the final episode is more interesting than simply killing him off together with Dimitri. And, well, we get to know him closer in TBOGT, thanks to this.

On 11/18/2024 at 8:41 PM, Silver said:

For that reason, I'm fine with Bulgarin being at the very least one antagonist in TBoGT, because to me the main antagonists in Luis and Tony's story were the Ancelottis. And I think the game lost the plot a bit once Bulgarin turned against Luis.

Yep, also thought about that. The Mafia doesn't even feel as a threat in TBOGT, more like another employer who needs a favour (Luis doing missions for Rocco). It's only in the ending when Luis is pressured to kill Tony or die that this threat becomes more evident and serious. I think they might have made a mission prior to Departure Time in which Luis deals with the Ancelottis either by killing them all or putting a scare on them. The physical appearance of the Old Man himself at least in some cutscenes might have also done the game good. Probably they might have made it so some of the Ancelottis atttack Maisonette together with the Russians (since Bulgarin and the Old Man made a deal).
Anyway, I agree with you: the Ancelottis are a loose end and an oversight, especially considering the fact that Luis killed one of their old-time mobsters (not sure how high up Vince was but he's still one of them). 

 

On 11/18/2024 at 8:41 PM, Silver said:

Anyway, I think this is a case of the DLC being too short and/or rushed for its own good. A longer story would've certainly helped polishing these kinds of oversights in my opinion.

Definitely!

[Silver]

5 hours ago, AngryMeatPie said:

You nailed it. The Revenge ending doesn't bring a sense of victory, as it seems to me. I picked the Deal ending a few times because it somehow feels as a more real victory than killing Pegorino.

Yeah, although a part of me wishes Dimitri wasn't on the Platypus after choosing Revenge and you'd somehow have to kill him last like in the Deal ending. It'd make Revenge a riskier choice initially as Niko would screw Pegorino over and Dimitri would still be out there, making the player wonder if they'd made the right decision. The rest would play out similarly to the Revenge ending but with Dimitri being Niko's final kill. Of course I understand it would've been too perfect of an ending and too similar to the Deal ending as well, but still, I always wanted Dimitri to be the final antagonist in both endings.

 

5 hours ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Now that I think of it, the main reason why Pegorino's death doesn't seem as satifsfying might be because we simply don't get attached to Kate's character throughout the story much. I wish she'd appeared earlier in the plot and I also wish the game showed more communication between her and Niko outside of dates which are not obligatory, so it's easy to miss much of their dialogue. It would've helped disclose her character better and showed the developing relationship between her and the protagonist. Without that, yeah, her death feels sad but personally I didn't feel deeply hurt or struck. It is hard to feel bad about the death of a character who doesn't appear in the story much, albeit being Niko's love interest. It feels like Rockstar might have been planning to show more of their time together in story missions, but it got cut...

I agree. Kate dying never resonated much with me either, especially when compared to Roman. I mean, of course Roman dying is a bigger loss considering he's been here since the very beginning and you spend a considerable amount of time with him, both in missions and during hangouts, he's also extremely lovable which is a big plus. In comparison, Kate never had much of a chance since most of her interactions with Niko are entirely optional. I know I didn't spend time with her at all during my first playthrough, I was so invested in the story that I never really cared about hanging out with Kate who I thought seemed rather bland compared to the more interesting characters that I could call like Brucie, LJ, Packie or even Roman. Obviously her death didn't shock me that much, and I remember not really understanding why Niko was so upset about it either. It's a shame because while I prefer the Revenge ending, the Deal ending is such a gut punch that you just wish the other was as impactful, and Kate surely deserved more for her death to be seen as such.

 

One way I think they could've made her feel more relevant is by giving her a set of missions. Obviously she wouldn't ask you to kill anyone or steal anything as that's not what she would want from Niko, or anybody really, but maybe these missions, or errands, would give the player the choice to do them without committing any crime, or by doing the opposite and taking the easy route, influencing your relationship with her in the process. Something that would put the player to the test so as to not be too mundane while giving Kate the opportunity to become a more important character outside of hangouts. Ilyena Faustin's encounter where you can choose to either kill Slimeball or spare him is the type of mission that I have in mind. Or you could give the McReary family more missions that would somehow involve Kate, I don't know.

I'm just pitching this on the fly and I have no idea if it'd work gameplay-wise as I imagine these missions to be a real change of pace and could end up being pretty boring, but I like to think they would at the very least make the player more invested in Kate and her relationship with Niko.

 

6 hours ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Yep, also thought about that. The Mafia doesn't even feel as a threat in TBOGT, more like another employer who needs a favour (Luis doing missions for Rocco). It's only in the ending when Luis is pressured to kill Tony or die that this threat becomes more evident and serious. I think they might have made a mission prior to Departure Time in which Luis deals with the Ancelottis either by killing them all or putting a scare on them. The physical appearance of the Old Man himself at least in some cutscenes might have also done the game good. Probably they might have made it so some of the Ancelottis atttack Maisonette together with the Russians (since Bulgarin and the Old Man made a deal).
Anyway, I agree with you: the Ancelottis are a loose end and an oversight, especially considering the fact that Luis killed one of their old-time mobsters (not sure how high up Vince was but he's still one of them).

Bit of a tangent but I always felt Party's Over received some changes, or at least one.

Luis meets Vince and Rocco in Middle Park and learns of Bulgarin's meeting with the Old Man, and Rocco threatens Luis' family and friends if he doesn't comply. Then they both leave and are now waiting for Luis at the club, Vince even changed clothes on his way to Maisonette, what a guy. I imagine the initial cutscene was just a cutscene and not part of the mission itself as Rocco's idea about giving the Russians one body always sounded like it had not yet been pitched to the Old Man, giving Luis a bit of time to get ready, or to make sure his loved ones are safe.

Whenever I play the game I always feel that point in the story is the moment things are getting serious. Considering how dangerous Bulgarin revealed himself to be and how utterly screwed Luis and Tony were at that point, to me the story had all the right momentum for some great drama and for some really interesting and intense sequence of events had the game been much longer. But oh well, it is what it is.

 

Regardless, I also think the Old Man appearing in person would've been cool, it's strange that we never saw him considering Tony's ties to the Ancelottis, a weird opportunity to miss in my opinion. However, I don't know how Luis and Tony would've gotten out of this mess had the Ancelottis come after them like they should have. Would they be forced to make a deal in order to have their lives spared? Would Luis have to eradicate the whole Ancelottis? Would that even be believable? I know Luis as a protagonist can survive pretty much anything and he does wipe Bulgarin's whole crew by himself, but still, a whole Mafia family would be a bit much honestly. Or perhaps Luis only kills the Old Man and the people involved and they face no retaliation whatsoever afterward...? Eh, whatever. I haven't really thought this through to be honest.

Still, I think it's an interesting alternative, if anything I wish we had gotten some kind of closure regarding the Ancelottis after Departure Time, maybe a call from Tony telling us Gracie put in a good word for them or something.

[AngryMeatPie]

11 hours ago, Silver said:

Yeah, although a part of me wishes Dimitri wasn't on the Platypus after choosing Revenge and you'd somehow have to kill him last like in the Deal ending. It'd make Revenge a riskier choice initially as Niko would screw Pegorino over and Dimitri would still be out there, making the player wonder if they'd made the right decision.

That sound reasonable. It always irked me how Roman found out Dimitri's location by accident, like wtf, he's a very cautious and seemingly paranoid criminal and I imagine he'd do his best to avoid being found. And here a random guy somehow learns he's on the Platypus, doing a drug shipping operation. It looks even weirder considering the fact that Roman at that time seems to stay out of Hove Beach living in either Algonquin or Bohan. So it would've been fitting to have Roman mistakenly give Niko's his location, Niko get caught in a planned ambush and after killing everyone discover the ship was a dead end. This, of course, would make Niko's going to Roman's wedding a stupid decision since both Dimitri and Pegorino would be on the loose and ready to attack him at any moment but well, I believe it might have been tied up somehow. Either way, I too would rather Dimitri be the final boss of the game in both endings. 

 

11 hours ago, Silver said:

the Deal ending is such a gut punch that you just wish the other was as impactful, and Kate surely deserved more for her death to be seen as such.

Couldn't have put it better. Revenge feels like a weaker ending than Deal, partially because you have to kill Jimmy not Dimitri, partially because of Kate and partially, it seems to me, because of the weather. In Deal the weather changes to rain and thunder gradually, in Revenge it is a bright sunny day which just kills all its tragic mood imo. I take it this was probably done to make endings more different from one another, but it just doesn't play well with Niko's mood at that moment. 

11 hours ago, Silver said:

Bit of a tangent but I always felt Party's Over received some changes, or at least one.

Luis meets Vince and Rocco in Middle Park and learns of Bulgarin's meeting with the Old Man, and Rocco threatens Luis' family and friends if he doesn't comply. Then they both leave and are now waiting for Luis at the club, Vince even changed clothes on his way to Maisonette, what a guy. I imagine the initial cutscene was just a cutscene and not part of the mission itself as Rocco's idea about giving the Russians one body always sounded like it had not yet been pitched to the Old Man, giving Luis a bit of time to get ready, or to make sure his loved ones are safe.

You might be right on this one. Vince changing clothes is probably the best sign the mission was changed, I also noticed this, lol. And the fact that there's like a few minutes between their meeting in the toilets and them coming to the club. On the one hand, it gives some feeling of urgency but on the other it just feels rushed. Rocco tells Luis to think about their offer, leaves and immediately afterwards they're in the club pressing Luis into killing Tony. Idk which way is better, but yeah, looks like the initial cutscene was originally just a cutscene maybe followed by some phone calls (to Luis' mom, Armando and Henrique and Tony probably as they're basically all in danger). Then I think Tony called Luis asking him to come to the club and the main part of the mission started. 

 

11 hours ago, Silver said:

maybe a call from Tony telling us Gracie put in a good word for them or something.

Such an act from Gracie's side would've been quite a surprise but who knows, maybe it would've played out well. 

Edited November 22, 2024 by AngryMeatPie

[Silver]

1 hour ago, AngryMeatPie said:

That sound reasonable. It always irked me how Roman found out Dimitri's location by accident, like wtf, he's a very cautious and seemingly paranoid criminal and I imagine he'd do his best to avoid being found. And here a random guy somehow learns he's on the Platypus, doing a drug shipping operation. It looks even weirder considering the fact that Roman at that time seems to stay out of Hove Beach living in either Algonquin or Bohan. So it would've been fitting to have Roman mistakenly give Niko's his location, Niko get caught in a planned ambush and after killing everyone discover the ship was a dead end. This, of course, would make Niko's going to Roman's wedding a stupid decision since both Dimitri and Pegorino would be on the loose and ready to attack him at any moment but well, I believe it might have been tied up somehow. Either way, I too would rather Dimitri be the final boss of the game in both endings.

Oh yeah it never sat right with me either. They did the same thing in TBoGT with Tony suddenly knowing where Bulgarin's operation is right at the very end, or even in V with Lester giving the location of every antagonist in ending C, talk about convenient.

That's a good alternative, either that or have Pegorino mention the Platypus offhand during the One Last Thing cutscene, cluing in Niko on Dimitri's whereabouts without being overly specific, at least something more believable than Roman just casually dropping this major information out of the blue.

 

1 hour ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Couldn't have put it better. Revenge feels like a weaker ending than Deal, partially because you have to kill Jimmy not Dimitri, partially because of Kate and partially, it seems to me, because of the weather. In Deal the weather changes to rain and thunder gradually, in Revenge it is a bright sunny day which just kills all its tragic mood imo. I take it this was probably done to make endings more different from one another, but it just doesn't play well with Niko's mood at that moment.

You bring a good point. I never thought about the weather but I agree that the stormy weather really sets the tone of the scene better in the Deal ending. It also fits Niko's story and LC's overall atmosphere better too, especially with that last shot of the Statue of Happiness with the city in the background before the credits start rolling. Maybe they figured having the same weather in the Revenge ending would be too dramatic for what was at stake, like R* did this intentionally knowing that players would be way less angered at Jimmy than with Dimitri so they chose to change it completely.

 

1 hour ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Such an act from Gracie's side would've been quite a surprise but who knows, maybe it would've played out well. 

Yeah I just thought about that as I was writing it, maybe not the best way to explain it but it would've been something, at least. After all they did rescue her, so Gracie convincing her dad to leave them be would've shown us that she's grateful and not a completely selfish bitch lol.

[AngryMeatPie]

2 hours ago, Silver said:

They did the same thing in TBoGT with Tony suddenly knowing where Bulgarin's operation is right at the very end

RIGHT, I remembered that later after I'd already posted the comment. I watched the playthrough to confirm my guess and yeah, Tony somehow knows where Bulgarin's men are. But well, it is kinda understandable in his case because Tony might have some connections that gave him a hint. He's an influential man after all while Roman is basically a nobody and yet he pinpoints the location of a major criminal. This is weird. 

 

2 hours ago, Silver said:

either that or have Pegorino mention the Platypus offhand during the One Last Thing cutscene

Oh, right, btw, completely forgot about One Last Thing. Pegorino could've simply mentioned Dimitri being on a ship in Hove Beach, and I think that would be a good enough hint. 

 

2 hours ago, Silver said:

It also fits Niko's story and LC's overall atmosphere better too, especially with that last shot of the Statue of Happiness with the city in the background before the credits start rolling

Not only the weather is different here but also the shot of the Statue itself (in the Revenge its frontal side is shown while in Deal the camera shows it from the back and also the city in the background). I think they tried to make the Revenge ending a more optimistic (?) one by changing its tone, but I think they ended up messing up the general mood of that part of the game. I mean, yeah, it's probably meant to give the player some feeling of hope but I always thought that both endings are tragic in their own way, Niko losing a close person in both of them. So why change the mood so drastically? No idea... 

 

2 hours ago, Silver said:

Maybe they figured having the same weather in the Revenge ending would be too dramatic for what was at stake, like R* did this intentionally knowing that players would be way less angered at Jimmy than with Dimitri so they chose to change it completely

Probably that's the best explanation here. And that's the reason I don't find it a 100% fitting ending for a game like IV. But like you said, it is what it is. It's great they made two different endings at all and not just one. 

 

2 hours ago, Silver said:

After all they did rescue her, so Gracie convincing her dad to leave them be would've shown us that she's grateful and not a completely selfish bitch lol.

Hm, showing this better side of her sound like a good idea, although I think she'll never really forget Luis punching her out lol.

Edited November 22, 2024 by AngryMeatPie

[Silver]

2 hours ago, AngryMeatPie said:

RIGHT, I remembered that later after I'd already posted the comment. I watched the playthrough to confirm my guess and yeah, Tony somehow knows where Bulgarin's men are. But well, it is kinda understandable in his case because Tony might have some connections that gave him a hint. He's an influential man after all while Roman is basically a nobody and yet he pinpoints the location of a major criminal. This is weird.

True. It's not too bad all things considered. I'm not too much of a fan of these types of crucial information getting casually revealed like that during the end game, right when the protagonist needs them the most. That and also that it's happened three times so far, it removes a bit of tension in my opinion.

 

2 hours ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Not only the weather is different here but also the shot of the Statue itself (in the Revenge its frontal side is shown while in Deal the camera shows it from the back and also the city in the background). I think they tried to make the Revenge ending a more optimistic (?) one by changing its tone, but I think they ended up messing up the general mood of that part of the game. I mean, yeah, it's probably meant to give the player some feeling of hope but I always thought that both endings are tragic in their own way, Niko losing a close person in both of them. So why change the mood so drastically? No idea...

Yeah I suppose that's how they intended us to view the tone of that ending, it does give the feeling of a more hopeful future in spite of everything. But I agree, seeing the rain pouring on Niko's face in the Revenge ending would've emphasized his mental state in that moment and the tragedy that he's experienced, even if we the players aren't fully in tune with his grief toward Kate. There's also something oddly cinematic about a rainy weather that really strengthens moments like these.

 

2 hours ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Hm, showing this better side of her sound like a good idea, although I think she'll never really forget Luis punching her out lol.

Fair enough, lol. I mean, it would've added a tiny bit of depth to her character which is always something.

[AngryMeatPie]

1 hour ago, Silver said:

But I agree, seeing the rain pouring on Niko's face in the Revenge ending would've emphasized his mental state in that moment and the tragedy that he's experienced, even if we the players aren't fully in tune with his grief toward Kate. There's also something oddly cinematic about a rainy weather that really strengthens moments like these.

Perhaps they could've used a different preset of rainy weather, like drizzle, and left the thunderstorm in the Deal ending. The foggy weather could also be an option.
Now that we've discussed it all, I'm thinking of writing a full alternative ending concept for IV lol, primarily for the Revenge ending. Making Dimitri Niko's last kill, changing the weather, etc. Just curious to see how it would look like if it were in the game.  And some ideas for Kate's missions probably. Btw I forgot to respond to that part of your message, I was thinking what kind of missions for her would fit the storyline. Probably the "scare off a harrassing colleague" or "buy a present for Ma" types of missions, that don't involve killing / carjacking. Also probably some missions like Buoys Ahoy that don't have enemies and have Niko just cruising around with Kate in a car / boat and taking photos or smth like that. It would be interesting to think it over deeper. 

 

1 hour ago, Silver said:

I mean, it would've added a tiny bit of depth to her character which is always something.

Definitely! Just like they showed Bulgarin's more peaceful side in TBOGT. 

[Silver]

1 hour ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Perhaps they could've used a different preset of rainy weather, like drizzle, and left the thunderstorm in the Deal ending. The foggy weather could also be an option.

Sure, drizzle could work just as much and make it a bit more distinct from the Deal ending while symbolically retaining that sense of hope that a thunderstorm kind of negates in a way.

 

1 hour ago, AngryMeatPie said:

Now that we've discussed it all, I'm thinking of writing a full alternative ending concept for IV lol, primarily for the Revenge ending. Making Dimitri Niko's last kill, changing the weather, etc. Just curious to see how it would look like if it were in the game.  And some ideas for Kate's missions probably. Btw I forgot to respond to that part of your message, I was thinking what kind of missions for her would fit the storyline. Probably the "scare off a harrassing colleague" or "buy a present for Ma" types of missions, that don't involve killing / carjacking. Also probably some missions like Buoys Ahoy that don't have enemies and have Niko just cruising around with Kate in a car / boat and taking photos or smth like that. It would be interesting to think it over deeper.

Yeah I was thinking about missions of that kind, fairly basic stuff but perhaps enough to make Kate a more prominent character. Niko could also be much more open about his past in these missions as opposed to just their hangouts, it'd emphasize his affection for her more than with the other characters and it'd prevent players from missing out on the groundwork of their relationship too.

 

Of course I think this sounds good on paper, but Kate's character makes it a bit difficult for her missions to be seen as entertaining from a gameplay standpoint considering she's a civilian with no link to anything remotely criminal (apart from her family but they don't influence her lifestyle), although maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

I can't help but think her missions would lead to some kind of whiplash from the player's perspective. It'd be like going from all these intense gunfights with lots of action to this extremely mundane stuff, albeit potentially with some great dialogue and introspection on both characters, so maybe that would balance it all out.

I assume that's why R* chose to make most of Kate's stuff optional. They might have figured that hangouts were the only way for players to realistically spend time with Kate without feeling like a chore that's being forced upon them. Instead they tried to influence the player by giving them hints, like Niko automatically liking Kate when they first meet, or Packie commenting on Kate liking him too and sending you text messages asking you to call her. Little nudges like these to get the player to realize that she's an important character and that they should spend time with her.

[Moonshine Wagon Fan]

I love playing this:

 

 

[44Orca]

On 12/22/2024 at 10:37 AM, noobbot said:

hey i want to ask you will i3 run gta 4?

i3? The cpu? Can you specify? A cpu only doesn't say much, what's your gpu and ram also? Newer PCs can run GTA4.

I had an i3 2100 cpu, with a gt520 back then and it could run it on low settings.

Even an old PC if you buy one cheap today, like a bit of an old gpu (gtx 650 ti) could run it on high no issue.

[Ham4er]

é muito loko pensa q esse jogo tem essa qualidade e tenha sido lançado a mais de 15 anos.

Edited December 23, 2024 by Ham4er

[EdEdEdEd]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:12 AM, Silver said:

Yeah I was thinking about missions of that kind, fairly basic stuff but perhaps enough to make Kate a more prominent character. Niko could also be much more open about his past in these missions as opposed to just their hangouts, it'd emphasize his affection for her more than with the other characters and it'd prevent players from missing out on the groundwork of their relationship too.

 

Of course I think this sounds good on paper, but Kate's character makes it a bit difficult for her missions to be seen as entertaining from a gameplay standpoint considering she's a civilian with no link to anything remotely criminal (apart from her family but they don't influence her lifestyle), although maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

I can't help but think her missions would lead to some kind of whiplash from the player's perspective. It'd be like going from all these intense gunfights with lots of action to this extremely mundane stuff, albeit potentially with some great dialogue and introspection on both characters, so maybe that would balance it all out.

I assume that's why R* chose to make most of Kate's stuff optional. They might have figured that hangouts were the only way for players to realistically spend time with Kate without feeling like a chore that's being forced upon them. Instead they tried to influence the player by giving them hints, like Niko automatically liking Kate when they first meet, or Packie commenting on Kate liking him too and sending you text messages asking you to call her. Little nudges like these to get the player to realize that she's an important character and that they should spend time with her.

I have some mission ideas related to hangouts, one of which involves going to the Irish bar in Dukes for a drink. After a while two of Dimitri's men show up (maybe have them comment about not going Comrades cuz its sh*t or something, idk basically an explanation as to why they went out to Dukes instead of Comrades), they spot Niko and you have to fight them with melee at the back of the bar to avoid scaring Kate. The catch is that there is a slight drunk camera cuz Niko is slightly sh*tfaced at this point, afterwards you escort Kate while pretending that nothing happened lmao. Could be a funny and unique mission imo, plus it emphasizes Niko's on the run status, showcasing that Dimitri could be a threat anywhere you go.

[Silver]

9 hours ago, EdEdEdEd said:

I have some mission ideas related to hangouts, one of which involves going to the Irish bar in Dukes for a drink. After a while two of Dimitri's men show up (maybe have them comment about not going Comrades cuz its sh*t or something, idk basically an explanation as to why they went out to Dukes instead of Comrades), they spot Niko and you have to fight them with melee at the back of the bar to avoid scaring Kate. The catch is that there is a slight drunk camera cuz Niko is slightly sh*tfaced at this point, afterwards you escort Kate while pretending that nothing happened lmao. Could be a funny and unique mission imo, plus it emphasizes Niko's on the run status, showcasing that Dimitri could be a threat anywhere you go.

Yeah it'd make for a unique mission, especially with the drunk camera.

[Yoona]

I'm surprised there wasn't a PS4 and Switch remaster this year... maybe early next year.

[NightmanCometh96]

5 hours ago, Yoona said:

I'm surprised there wasn't a PS4 and Switch remaster this year... maybe early next year.

While I'd love to be proven wrong, I'm not so sure about next year. Strauss mentioned wanting more consistent R* releases back in 2019/2020; so far, the way they seem to be doing that is releasing one title per year. We had the DE in 2021, E&E in 2022, RDR1 Switch/PS4 in 2023 and RDR1 PC this year. To be fair, E&E was delayed past its H2 2021 target date, and the mobile/Netflix DE was also released at the tail-end of 2023, so the "one release a year" strategy isn't necessarily a concrete rule.

 

Still, based on that, I assume the sole 2025 title will be GTA VI (especially since it will be big enough that T2 may not see a "need" to put out another rerelease in the months immediately before or after). Unless it winds up being delayed into 2026 (which isn't out of the realm of possibility. This is R* after all), then I could see them wanting to put out a IV rerelease earlier to fill in the gap, much like they did with the DE taking E&E's original November 11, 2021 date. Waiting until 2027/2028 wouldn't surprise me, either, depending on when VI's PC version and/or the Max Payne remakes are released.

Edited December 25, 2024 by NightmanCometh96

[Yoona]

14 minutes ago, NightmanCometh96 said:

While I'd love to be proven wrong, I'm not so sure about next year. Strauss mentioned wanting more consistent R* releases back in 2019/2020; so far, the way they seem to be doing that is releasing one title per year. We had the DE in 2021, E&E in 2022, RDR1 Switch/PS4 in 2023 and RDR1 PC this year. To be fair, E&E was delayed past its H2 2021 target date, and the mobile/Netflix DE was also released at the tail-end of 2023, so the "one release a year" strategy isn't necessarily a concrete rule.

 

Still, based on that, I assume the sole 2025 title will be GTA VI (especially since it will be big enough that T2 may not see a "need" to put out another rerelease in those several months before or after). Unless it winds up being delayed into 2026 (which isn't out of the realm of possibility. This is R* after all), then I could see them wanting to put out a IV rerelease earlier to fill in the gap, like they did with the DE taking E&E's original November 11, 2021 date. Waiting until 2027/2028 wouldn't surprise me, either, depending on when VI's PC version and/or the Max Payne remakes are released.

PC version of RDR1 should have been 2023 alongside Switch and PS4. I don't think the 2024 PC release should have ruled out 2024 from GTA IV port.

 

Maybe it's just internally delayed and will be released soon? Like in March or something.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Yoona

[NightmanCometh96]

2 hours ago, Yoona said:

PC version of RDR1 should have been 2023 alongside Switch and PS4. I don't think they 2024 PC release should have ruled out 2024 from GTA IV port.

 

Maybe it's just internally delayed and will be released soon? Like in March or something.

It should have released alongside PS4 and Switch, I 100% agree there. There’s zero excuse not to have done so given how much bigger the PC gaming scene is compared to the early-to-mid-2000s.  But if GTA VI is anything to go by, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just R* being stuck in their increasingly out of touch mindset of PC being an afterthought (and T2 being okay with it, because “R* can do no wrong” in the eyes of the general public). The only day one PC release in recent years that I can think of is the DE of all things… 

 

Luckily, Remedy is helming the MP remakes, and since it’s a PC-focused franchise to begin with, I suspect that will launch day and date on all platforms. 

Edited December 25, 2024 by NightmanCometh96

[Bizz913]

I really need that rdr 1 like release for pc so we can just let go of that still 32 bit and dx9 powered GTA IV.

Since RDR 1 has be been there for me I have been playing less and less of IV and more of V and RDR 1 and the emus.

Played IV maybe only for few mins for that new fusion fix update otherwise would have the release by D11 anytime on pc.

[The-Ghost]

Playing The Lost And Damned here and I got confused a bit on where This Sh*t's Cursed actually falls withing the trilogy, I realize it's related to Chinese Takeout in TBOGT, it's implied that it happens before this mission, but I find it strange that Luis would knock out the mobster, and he would get up and meet with Johnny and Jim after like nothing happened.

I guess they haven't had the whole thing fledged out in detail by then... or I am missing something

 

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by The-Ghost

[solitudinarian]

Is it worth buying from the R* game store on sale? I know we cant talk about "alternatives" here and all, that's fine. Just wondering if it's worth it (bugs, glitches, gamebreaks, etc). Like, does it look good? Is it changed in any way from the original? Can it be modded in any way? (clothes, weather, idk what people do with mods in gta games lol). Just wondering. The price is really good imo, but  I dont want to buy it off R* if it's just garbage.

[Silver]

On 12/28/2024 at 1:34 PM, solitudinarian said:

Is it worth buying from the R* game store on sale? I know we cant talk about "alternatives" here and all, that's fine. Just wondering if it's worth it (bugs, glitches, gamebreaks, etc). Like, does it look good? Is it changed in any way from the original? Can it be modded in any way? (clothes, weather, idk what people do with mods in gta games lol). Just wondering. The price is really good imo, but  I dont want to buy it off R* if it's just garbage.

The game is definitely worth it, especially with FusionFix making the experience that much better. I remember the RGL version being rather difficult to mod a few years back (the launcher would constantly update the game files and remove any installed mod in the process) but that may have been patched since then. I'm using the Steam version nowadays and it works like a charm, so if you have any doubt, Steam has you covered.

 

As for the main changes, GTA IV comes with both DLCs now, all three stories can be accessed from the main menu like it used to back when you had to purchase them separately. Moreover, all songs introduced in the DLCs as well as the three exclusive radios from EFLC are now present in IV. A lot of songs have been removed due to licensing issues but thankfully they can easily be restored with the help of a radio downgrader which in my opinion is a must have if you want to get the original experience music-wise.

[solitudinarian]

7 minutes ago, Silver said:

The game is definitely worth it, especially with FusionFix making the experience that much better. I remember the RGL version being rather difficult to mod a few years back (the launcher would constantly update the game files and remove any installed mod in the process) but that may have been patched since then. I'm using the Steam version nowadays and it works like a charm, so if you have any doubt, Steam has you covered.

 

As for the main changes, GTA IV comes with both DLCs now, all three stories can be accessed from the main menu like it used to back when you had to purchase them separately. Moreover, all songs introduced in the DLCs as well as the three exclusive radios from EFLC are now present in IV. A lot of songs have been removed due to licensing issues but thankfully they can easily be restored with the help of a radio downgrader which in my opinion is a must have if you want to get the original experience music-wise.

Nice, nice, thank you! My understanding is that the R* launcher no longer works with Win7 tho, correct? Or is it just "unsupported" ? 

 

I have a few games on my win11 laptop that use their launcher, but my win11 laptop wont be able to handle gta iv im pretty sure. but my win7 rig is quite juicy, if the launcher will play ball. 

 

[Silver]

5 minutes ago, solitudinarian said:

Nice, nice, thank you! My understanding is that the R* launcher no longer works with Win7 tho, correct? Or is it just "unsupported" ?

I believe so yes, same goes for Steam. I'm on Win10 and I'm not aware of ways to make it work on 7, at least for the current version of the game. I assume downgrading the game to previous versions like 1.0.8.0 or 1.0.7.0 would let you play without the need of RGL, but mods like FusionFix that were made for the latest version of the game might not work correctly or at all. In my opinion the latest version of the game, also called CE (Complete Edition) is the most user-friendly modding-wise thanks to FusionFix.

[ROCKSTAR MANIC]

Anyone by any chance have the digital version of 4 on 360 bought off the 360 marketplace before its closure? 

[The Grunt 281]

I did some LC. Cage Fighters the other day while trying to get back at the game, I don't think that thing will stop being fun to do every once in a while, then I tried to do this in GTA Online and you suddently become one of those slow punchers most of the time.

 

I still drive base game bikes no problem, driving isn't difficult.

 

Shootout to people who did speedruns of every stunt jump, that's fun to watch and I'm pretty sure some ask for a bike (locked island business) .

[solitudinarian]

2 hours ago, Silver said:

I believe so yes, same goes for Steam. I'm on Win10 and I'm not aware of ways to make it work on 7, at least for the current version of the game. I assume downgrading the game to previous versions like 1.0.8.0 or 1.0.7.0 would let you play without the need of RGL, but mods like FusionFix that were made for the latest version of the game might not work correctly or at all. In my opinion the latest version of the game, also called CE (Complete Edition) is the most user-friendly modding-wise thanks to FusionFix.

Interesting, thanks for the heads up!

 

Oddly enough, Steam still works in win7. I dont really use it, but I can open it to access games, and games are able to be downloaded, installed, updated and played. I dont buy/use the wallet tho for safety, lol.

 

 

[The-Ghost]

 

 

I didn't even know Fusionfix had a snow mod until now, I loaded up and there was snow everywhere, pretty cool.

I've looked it up, apparently you have to call a number for this to be activated, but I didn't so not entirely sure how it happened.

 

It was surprising that at first I thought my game didn't load textures or something lol

[The-Ghost]

If you look very, very closely in these two pictures, you might just see a cab

I know about this bug, but it was funny to see.